Sealing Of The Annointed

[Shibboleth]

I have been doing some research on the sealing of the annointed. I was wondering if anyone may have some input on some of my thoughts and querys. I am trying to put some things into perspective.


Rev. 7

1 (http://) After this I saw four angels standing upon the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow upon the earth or upon the sea or upon any tree.
2 (http://) And I saw another angel ascending from the sunrising, having a seal of [the] living God; and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 (http://) saying: "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads."[/b]

This scripture is is taken place after the sixth seal was opened. From my understanding of the sealing is that there would be a permanent mark on their heads. That after these ones were sealed then the GT would start. The 4 angels are also told to hold the winds back.

The next scripture shows that the locusts were told not to harm those with the seal on their heads during the 5th trumpet. This is the first woe.


Rev. 9

4 (http://) And they were told to harm no vegetation of the earth nor any green thing nor any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.[/b]

What concerns me about this scripture is that the locusts were specifically told not to harm those with the seal of God in their foreheads. So if this seal was the permanent seal wouldn't it make sense that this locust attack happens when the entire 144,000 are sealed? Right before the GT?
(Now I don't believe the interpertation of the locusts is entirely correct and have made a thread on my findings on this DB)

This scripture is the 6th trumpet and is describing the events when the angels are finally told to release the 4 winds.


Rev. 9

13 (http://) And the sixth angel blew his trumpet. And I heard one voice out of the horns of the golden altar that is before God 14 (http://) say to the sixth angel, who had the trumpet: "Untie the four angels that are bound at the great river Eu·phra´tes." 15 (http://) And the four angels were untied, who have been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, to kill a third of the men.[/b]

So if the sealing is not complete yet, wouldn't it debunk the interpertations of the scriptures that describe the locust attack that it had already happened?

I am curious as to what others may view this. Please feel free to contribute.


Regards,

Shibboleth

[Steadfast]

Dear Brother Shib,

If we take a closer look at Revelation, we can see that the first six seals are opened before any trumpets start to sound:

Revelation 8:1-2 – And when he (Jesus) opened the seventh seal, a silence in heaven occurred for about a half hour. And I saw the seven angels that stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.

Verse 6 – And the seven angels with the seven trumpets prepared to blow them.

So, it would seem that the tormenting of those who do not have the seal in their foreheads doesn't happen until the fifth trumpet is blown:

Revelation 9:1 – And the fifth angel blew his trumpet. And I saw a star that had fallen from heaven to the earth, and the key of the pit of the abyss was given him.

Verse 3 – And out of the smoke the locusts came forth……

Verse 4 – And they were told to harm no vegetation of the earth nor any green thing nor any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads.

Since this event happens at the fifth trumpet, but the sealing of the 144,000 takes place at the 6th seal (Revelation 6:12, 7:1), should we assume the sealing mentioned in Revelation 9:4 applies to only the 144,000?

Are there any scriptures that might support a wider conclusion?

Love, :Love:

Steadfast

[Shibboleth]

I would assume from reading Revelation that the sealing is in direct corelation to the 144k.

I have to go out on a limb and say that the trumpets, seals and bowls all have a connection. I think they are speaking of the same thing but from different perspectives. but that is besides the point.

It just makes sense that whatever the 5th trumpet brings (whether you believe it is a mighty preaching work or demonic activity) it only happens after those had been sealed. So if the 144k have not been sealed yet, the 5th trumpet has not happened. Since the words spoken were to the locusts as not to hurt those with the seal.

Also from my understanding is that you can only get the seal once you had finished proving yourself faithful. Which means you must die or most likely be close to death so as to know there would not be any corruption. Also it was from my understanding that their would be annointed during the GT. So these ones would have to be sealed right before the tribulation. Once the tribulation started the locusts would not be able to touch them.

Now it has also been speculated that some of the annointed would survive through Armegeddon, but the scriptures are pretty clear that the annointed are all called during the GT by the archangel's trumpet. Which would then mean that they would instantly be with Jesus for the start of the battle.

Now I think the number of the annointed that are sealed before the GT is in Rev.


Rev. 11

11 (http://) And after the three and a half days spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet, and great fear fell upon those beholding them. 12 (http://) And they heard a loud voice out of heaven say to them: “Come on up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies beheld them. 13 (http://) And in that hour a great earthquake occurred, and a tenth of the city fell; and seven thousand persons were killed by the earthquake, and the rest became frightened and gave glory to the God of heaven.[/b]

I think that at the beginning of the GT we will experience 3 1/2 years of hardships because we will be scattered then the next 3 1/2 years there is an extensive witnessing work sparked by the 2 witneeses who are the remaining annointed on earth. Now what is interesting to note is that when Jesus calls the remaining ones to "Come up here!" we see a strong earthquake and 7,000 people die. Could the 7,000 be the number of the annointed that were left on earth and then die so they can enter into heaven and join Jesus for the Battle?


I think we are so close to finding out the truths of this prophecy.

[Molly]

Who are the ones that are marked by the man with the inkhorn in Ezekial? They were sighing and groaning over the detestable things going on in the temple. Are those who claim to be annointed doing that? Maybe some are, but it doesn't seem as it the majority are. If they were really spirit annointed wouldn't you think that they'd be more curious than we are? I've only known two and one was very old and in a nursing home, so I can't determine how they're thinking is on the matter. Maybe some of them just think they are annointed, but aren't really. Perhaps the annointed haven't all been chosen yet.

The thing about the man with the inkhorn is that those marked (sealed?) were the ones who were not killed off, which fits well with the locusts in Rev. 9. The annointed are all to be killed off. If Shibboleth is right in his argument about the locusts it could be 5 months where JWs are tormented after the WTS goes poof! They would wish they would die and the world will apparently taunt them about it.

As for the 7 years concept, I am finding more scriptural hurdles to it's happening than support for it. So, many of the angels with seals and trumpets and bowls seem to be happening, not consecutively, but simultaneously.

The seven thunders of Rev. 10:4 are sealed up. This must be critical information to the understanding of Revelation, as well as the other prophesies about the end.

Frankly, I have more questions than answers about it all. All this good research and input that everyone is doing is very helpful though. There are so many things that have been brought up that would never have occurred to me. Thanks to all of you!

Molly

[Shibboleth]

Hey Molly, I to have alot of questions. it seems that when I do more research I open up more avenues and find something new.

To be honest if the annointed have all been sealed then we would be in the GT, but that is my assumption. I don't think they are all sealed yet, in fact I know they can't be. I think we would know. I think Jehovah would have let us know. And I believe it would be evident. Even the Society states that the 144k have not all been sealed, and I take their word and I believe it.

Paul said to continue proving youselves faithful so you could reach the reward. He was talking about those who would serve with Jesus.

In fact the scriptures in Revelation point to the fact that the 144k would be sealed before the GT started.

What I am trying to put into perspective is some of the interpertations. If the full sealing has not occured then some of the interpertations of the trumpets are wrong and are for a later date.

This is stuff I would love to discuss at the book study but I don't. I don't want to end up being labeled as someone who speaks up. I couldn't handle the pressure of people thinking that I am going against the Society, which I am not. I just wish we could go in and actually study and raise questions and try to discern. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? Russell founded the truths from dilligent study and raising questions and testing the knowledge. Why should we do any different?

[Steadfast]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

How about this scenario? :185:

Seals

1. White horse rider

2. Red horse rider

3. Black horse rider

4. Pale horse rider

5. White robes for those under the altar

6. Sealing of the 144,000

7. 7 angels prepare to blow their trumpets

All events under the seals could happen in a very short period of time.

Trumpets -------------------------------------- Bowls

1. ------------------------------------------------1.

2. ------------------------------------------------2.

3. ------------------------------------------------3.

4. ------------------------------------------------4.

5. ------------------------------------------------5.

6. ------------------------------------------------6.

7. ------------------------------------------------7.

Seals stand alone except for the 7th, in which all the trumpets and bowls occur.

Trumpets and bowls run parallel with each other.

Have fun, :202:

Love, :Love:

Steadfast

[Shibboleth]

Steadfast it makes sense.

I don't have the Watchtower CD here at work. So if anyone can be so kind as to post what the Society has given us concerning the sealing. I have read some of it from the Climax book. I just want to see what they said about it in other publications. I have heard a couple different things such as the Society has said they were already sealed and I have heard them say it hasn't been done yet.

[Dorcas]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

How about this scenario? :185:

Seals

1. White horse rider

2. Red horse rider

3. Black horse rider

4. Pale horse rider

5. White robes for those under the altar

6. Sealing of the 144,000

7. 7 angels prepare to blow their trumpets

All events under the seals could happen in a very short period of time.

Trumpets -------------------------------------- Bowls

1. ------------------------------------------------1.

2. ------------------------------------------------2.

3. ------------------------------------------------3.

4. ------------------------------------------------4.

5. ------------------------------------------------5.

6. ------------------------------------------------6.

7. ------------------------------------------------7.

Seals stand alone except for the 7th, in which all the trumpets and bowls occur.

Trumpets and bowls run parallel with each other.

Have fun, :202:

Love, :Love:

Steadfast[/b]
"Revelation Climax" is anti-climactic by now. I sure hope Shib doesn't put much trust in it! I wonder if he has the 4-page list of updates/changes.
Love...http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/MSN%20Vlinder.gif

[Shibboleth]

"Revelation Climax" is anti-climactic by now. I sure hope Shib doesn't put much trust in it! I wonder if he has the 4-page list of updates/changes.
Love...http://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/forum/style_emoticons/default/MSN%20Vlinder.gif[/b]

I do and I have studied that book since we started studying it. Been like 4 times already. I have the latest copy with all the changes in it, but I use it only for reference. Some of it still is good stuff. i just don't understand the reasoning behind some of the interpertations.