Archangel Or Archangel's?

[Excaliber]

I need help reasoning on the scriptures...to find out how we came up with the teaching that Jesus and Micheal are the same person.
I am runing into problems trying to explain this, because its hard to prove that Jesus is viewed in heaven as another angel...let alone Micheal.

I am geting the idea that micheal is an angel, although a cheif angel. And Jesus is not an archangel but KING of a heavenly Kingdom.

Help me out here please...because I must be missing something here !!!!!

[Nambo]

I need help reasoning on the scriptures...to find out how we came up with the teaching that Jesus and Micheal are the same person.
I am runing into problems trying to explain this, because its hard to prove that Jesus is viewed in heaven as another angel...let alone Micheal.

I am geting the idea that micheal is an angel, although a cheif angel. And Jesus is not an archangel but KING of a heavenly Kingdom.

Help me out here please...because I must be missing something here !!!!![/b]

Would have to dig out the revolution book from the back of the cupboard to find the scriptures showing Jesus with a sword conquering and establishing his Kingdom, also Jesus is the one that bruise Satan in the head.
Well Revelation 12 verse 7 says 2And there was war in Heaven, Michael and his Angels fought against the Dragon, and the Dragon and his Angels fought back"
After showing Satan being hurled to the Earth verse 10 tells us, "Now have come the Salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God"

So theres a start for you, Micheal is an angel in charge of a lot of other angels that clear out Heaven and establish the Kingdom of God, sounds like the sort of thing Jesus is said to do.

[Berean]

That's interesting, it was something that came up over here recently as well. I am still wondering about it, in fact. The word archangel is only found twice in the Bible, once referring to Jesus' voice when waking the dead, and once in Jude, the only place where Michael is called an archangel. The problem is that Michael is only mentioned by Jude, in Revelation, and, interestingly, in Daniel 10:13, where he is called 'one of the foremost princes'. So it would appear that there are several princes among the angels, and the Greek word for archangel could well be a term to describe such a prince. I do wonder why in Jude the English translation is 'Michael the archangel' and not 'Michael, the archangel', hinting that there might be more than one. Regardless, there is no specific mention of other archangels in the Bible; the princes that are mentioned are not named, and the only other named angel, Gabriel, is not described as a prince, although he could well have been.

Like you, I do tend to think that Michael is an important angel, but am not convinced that he is Jesus. The text in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, where Jesus is described as calling 'with an archangel's voice' (note: it does not say 'with the archangel's voice'), is the best connection we have linking Jesus to Michael, but it is a bit of a flimsy one. Anyone care to help out here?

[Shibboleth]

Since Jesus' name is a human name wouldn't it be appropriate that he also has a Heavenly one?


Satan is also known as a prince. He was the prince of Persia that held up Gabriel. Gabriel needed help from an angel with more power to defeat the Prince of Persia. I believe it was Michael that came to his aid.

The bible does have some odd way of saying things, but I think we have to be very opened minded when it comes to the bible. We have to remember that, even though it may be close to the original phrasing, it may be worded differently then how we use the words in our common time.

The Insight Book has some pretty good information on the subject of Michael.


Regards,

Shibboleth

[Berean]

Yes, Jesus having a heavenly name does make sense, and things do seem to point in the direction of Michael referring to Jesus. It was in fact Michael who came to Gabriel's help, as is written in Daniel 10:13, where he is described as 'one of the chief princes'. Which leaves the question why he is not named 'the chief prince'. My explanation is that Jesus was likely in an exalted position among Jehovah's heavenly army at that time, but perhaps not regarded as the ultimate king. Still, I find it hard to wrap my head around the fact that the Son of God would be the same as an angel... however, to my knowledge, nowhere is Michael described as an angel, just as a prince, and as an archangel, which could refer to Jesus' important status as leader of Jehovah's army and chief of the angels. Yes, that works, Michael could be Jesus' heavenly name, but of course by us humans he will always be referred to as Jesus, which is how Jehovah has revealed his Son to us on earth.

[Shibboleth]

Berean, good post.

just to add. When Michael helped Gabriel it was before the man known as Jesus walked the earth. If Jesus and Michael are one and the same then it would make sense that Michael/Jesus would be exalted as the highest angel after he came to earth and died for our sins. Before his human existence it would be applicable for him to be called "one of the chief princes". We do know for a fact that there are different ranks of angels. Now if these different ranks have "leaders" is not entirely known since the only leaders that are spoken of is Michael, Jesus and Jehovah. Satan is the leader of the demons, but he most likely has some high ranking angels/demons in his posse also.

Jesus gets exalted becuase he past the test that Jehovah laid out for him. Could any other angel have done it? We don't know specifically. Because of his close relationship with his Father, Jesus probably jumped at the chance to help out humans, which is said he loves above all creation.

I am sure in the new system, things will be opened up to us and we will have to learn many many new things.


regards,

Shibboleth

[Excaliber]

It sounds like, because Michael is an important figure in heaven....we just assume its Jesus. Because he fought with satan dose not make him Jesus...Jesus more then likely orderd the attack.

We know that Jesus was not just "A" formost prince.
Acording to john 1:1 Jesus was a God even before comeing to earth.

Do you think the "EXACT" representation of Jehovah would be just one of many princes?

Jesus said if you see me you see the father. Did Jehovah not allow Jesus to make the other angels?

Micheal was "ONE OF" the for most princes....how could a God be just one of the formost princes?

[Kenneth]

<div align="left"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Taken from the Reasoning Book p218</div>
<div align="left"> </div><div align="left">

<span style="font-family:Verdana">Is Jesus Christ the same person as Michael the archangel?<div align="left">The name of this Michael appears only five times in the Bible. The glorious spirit person who bears the name is referred to as "one of the chief princes," "the great prince who has charge of your [Daniel&#39;s] people," and as "the archangel." (Dan. 10:13; 12:1; Jude 9, RS) Michael means "Who Is Like God?" The name evidently designates Michael as the one who takes the lead in upholding Jehovah&#39;s sovereignty and destroying God&#39;s enemies.</div>
<div align="left">At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (RS), the command of Jesus Christ for the resurrection to begin is described as "the archangel&#39;s call," and Jude 9 says that the archangel is Michael. Would it be appropriate to liken Jesus&#39; commanding call to that of someone lesser in authority? Reasonably, then, the archangel Michael is Jesus Christ. (Interestingly, the expression "archangel" is never found in the plural in the Scriptures, thus implying that there is only one.)</div>
Revelation 12:7-12 says that Michael and his angels would war against Satan and hurl him and his wicked angels out of heaven in connection with the conferring of kingly authority on Christ. Jesus is later depicted as leading the armies of heaven in war against the nations of the world. (Rev. 19:11-16) Is it not reasonable that Jesus would also be the one to take action against the one he described as "ruler of this world," Satan the Devil? (John 12:31) Daniel 12:1 (RS) associates the &#39;standing up of Michael&#39; to act with authority with "a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time." That would certainly fit the experience of the nations when Christ as heavenly executioner takes action against them. So the evidence indicates that the Son of God was known as Michael before he came to earth and is known also by that name since his return to heaven where he resides as the glorified spirit Son of God.
[/b][/quote]</span>
<div align="left"> </div>
</span>

[Excaliber]

It is also interesting that in many cases in the bible where Michael is mentioned, he is fighting against satan or a demon prince. It seems to be micheals job to keep satan and his demons under control.

That sounds like a warior angel....but it dose not sound like the son of God.

We dont know exactly what Jesus status was before comeing to earth...but we do know that Jesus was regarded as a GOD from the very begining.

I personaly think if Jesus Christ commanded satan to leave heaven...then they would leave...Just as they would leave if Jehovah commanded them to.

However if Jesus gave the order...and Michael "One of the princes" Just as satan was probably "One of the princes"...if just another archangel told satan to get packing....then satan and the other angels would probably in that case have fought back. They would have had a war because satan would have tried to maintain a domain in heaven, and faught anyone with similar power as his own.

But think about this, if satan was so bold as to wage war with a God....Jesus christ, then why did he not from the begining attempt to over throw Jesus. I personaly think that Jesus christ was out of satans league.

That is my thinking.. hard to think of the person who made the angels as just one of them.

[Excaliber]

Thanks kenneth.
But it sounds like there is a lot of implying done there.
For example the bible dose not say how many archangels there are...so we GUESS there is only one.

Also if that scripture in 1 thesselonians dose not say "The archangels call"
But an archangels call..then we are in danger of twisting the meaning of that verse.

So if an archangel or chief angel.....is "A" prince...and there are several princes...there must be several archangels.

If there is only one archangel and he is in command of ALL OTHER angels....that is not a prince, that is more like a king.
Micheal was one of the princes in heaven.
So if michael is Jesus..that means there were angels with rank equal to the son of God.

I just dont understand why this is made a teaching, if all it amounts to is a guess.

[Excaliber]

Also Micheal waring with satan in heaven....and Jesus leading the war of armegedon are not even close to the same thing.

Jusus needs to lead the battle of armegedon because Humans must be JUDGED. Jesus and Jehovah are the onlyones with the right to judge.

So basicly Micheal fought satan....so he must be Jesus. That is not enuff evidence to make it a teaching is it?

It could be true...he could have been Michael....but it would have been almost a guess that brought us to that conclusion.

I cant use that in the ministry however....I feel more responsable personaly for my teaching.

[Kenneth]

</div><div align="left"><span style="font-family:Verdana">(<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE</div><div class=\'quotemain\'>
<span style="font-family:Verdana">Mi´cha·el) [Who Is Like God?].</div>
<div align="left">1. The only holy angel other than Gabriel named in the Bible, and the only one called "archangel." (Jude 9) The first occurrence of the name is in the tenth chapter of Daniel, where Michael is described as "one of the foremost princes"; he came to the aid of a lesser angel who was opposed by "the prince of the royal realm of Persia." Michael was called "the prince of [Daniel&#39;s] people," "the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of [Daniel&#39;s] people." (Da 10:13, 20, 21; 12:1) This points to Michael as the angel who led the Israelites through the wilderness. (Ex 23:20, 21, 23; 32:34; 33:2) Lending support to this conclusion is the fact that "Michael the archangel had a difference with the Devil and was disputing about Moses&#39; body."—Jude 9.</div>
<div align="left">Scriptural evidence indicates that the name Michael applied to God&#39;s Son before he left heaven to become Jesus Christ and also after his return. Michael is the only one said to be "the archangel," meaning "chief angel," or "principal angel." The term occurs in the Bible only in the singular. This seems to imply that there is but one whom God has designated chief, or head, of the angelic host. At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 the voice of the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ is described as being that of an archangel, suggesting that he is, in fact, himself the archangel. This text depicts him as descending from heaven with "a commanding call." It is only logical, therefore, that the voice expressing this commanding call be described by a word that would not diminish or detract from the great authority that Christ Jesus now has as King of kings and Lord of lords. (Mt 28:18; Re 17:14) If the designation "archangel" applied, not to Jesus Christ, but to other angels, then the reference to "an archangel&#39;s voice" would not be appropriate. In that case it would be describing a voice of lesser authority than that of the Son of God.</div>
<div align="left">There are also other correspondencies establishing that Michael is actually the Son of God. Daniel, after making the first reference to Michael (Da 10:13), recorded a prophecy reaching down to "the time of the end" (Da 11:40) and then stated: "And during that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of [Daniel&#39;s] people." (Da 12:1) Michael&#39;s &#39;standing up&#39; was to be associated with "a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time." (Da 12:1) In Daniel&#39;s prophecy, &#39;standing up&#39; frequently refers to the action of a king, either taking up his royal power or acting effectively in his capacity as king. (Da 11:2-4, 7, 16b, 20, 21) This supports the conclusion that Michael is Jesus Christ, since Jesus is Jehovah&#39;s appointed King, commissioned to destroy all the nations at Har–Magedon.—Re 11:15; 16:14-16.</div>
<div align="left">The book of Revelation (12:7, 10, 12) specifically mentions Michael in connection with the establishment of God&#39;s Kingdom and links this event with trouble for the earth: "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled. And I heard a loud voice in heaven say: &#39;Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down . . . On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea.&#39;" Jesus Christ is later depicted as leading the heavenly armies in war against the nations of the earth. (Re 19:11-16) This would mean a period of distress for them, which would logically be included in the "time of distress" that is associated with Michael&#39;s standing up. (Da 12:1) Since the Son of God is to fight the nations, it is only reasonable that he was the one who with his angels earlier battled against the superhuman dragon, Satan the Devil, and his angels.</div>
<div align="left">In his prehuman existence Jesus was called "the Word." (Joh 1:1) He also had the personal name Michael. By retaining the name Jesus after his resurrection (Ac 9:5), "the Word" shows that he is identical with the Son of God on earth. His resuming his heavenly name Michael and his title (or name) "The Word of God" (Re 19:13) ties him in with his prehuman existence. The very name Michael, asking as it does, "Who Is Like God?" points to the fact that Jehovah God is without like, or equal, and that Michael his archangel is his great Champion or Vindicator.</div>
<div align="left">2. The father of chieftain Sethur of the tribe of Asher who was one of the 12 sent to spy out Canaan.—Nu 13:2, 13.</div>
<div align="left">3. Forefather of Asaph; of the family of Gershom, the son of Levi.—1Ch 6:39, 40, 43.</div>
<div align="left">4. One of the heads of the tribe of Issachar; of the family of Tola.—1Ch 7:1-3.</div>
<div align="left">5. A chieftain of the tribe of Manasseh who deserted to David at Ziklag.—1Ch 12:20.</div>
<div align="left">6. The father of Omri, the head of a paternal house of Issachar during David&#39;s reign.—1Ch 27:18.</div>
<div align="left">7. One of the sons of King Jehoshaphat of Judah who, together with his brothers, received costly gifts and fortified cities from their father. However, when his older brother Jehoram became king, Jehoram killed all his six younger brothers, including Michael.—2Ch 21:1-4.</div>
<div align="left">8. A Gadite and descendant of Buz; an ancestor of No. 9, at least five generations removed.—1Ch 5:11, 13, 14.</div>
<div align="left">9. A Gadite, first of seven sons of Abihail, a descendant of No. 8 and a head of a house of Gilead enrolled genealogically during the days of Israelite King Jeroboam II and of Judean King Jotham.—1Ch 5:11-17.</div>
<div align="left">10. A Benjamite; descendant of Shaharaim by his wife Hushim through Elpaal and Beriah.—1Ch 8:1, 8, 11-13, 16.</div>
<div align="left">11. Father of the Zebadiah who went up to Jerusalem from Babylon with Ezra in 468 B.C.E.—Ezr 8:1, 8.</div>
[/b][/quote]</span></span>
</span>

[Shibboleth]

It is also interesting that in many cases in the bible where Michael is mentioned, he is fighting against satan or a demon prince. It seems to be micheals job to keep satan and his demons under control.

That sounds like a warior angel....but it dose not sound like the son of God.

We dont know exactly what Jesus status was before comeing to earth...but we do know that Jesus was regarded as a GOD from the very begining.

I personaly think if Jesus Christ commanded satan to leave heaven...then they would leave...Just as they would leave if Jehovah commanded them to.[/b]

Jesus is a warrior. And all angels are sons of God. Jesus was Jehovah&#39;s favorite because Jesus was exactly like Jehovah. Regardless of names, we know for a fact that Jesus has/will have many names.

I personally feel that his name changed after Satan is ousted from heaven. then his true rulership would begin. I also feel that Satan, dispite Jesus being very powerful, would stand up against Jesus.

I personally feel there is enough evidence to prove that Jesus and Michael are one and the same. Others may not agree.


Regards,

Shibboleth

[Cephalon]

I think that Michael is Jesus because, who is more suited to lead the final battle in heaven between good and evil? This is the battle to restore Jehovah&#39;s will and to restore order in the heaven. A battle to get rid of the devil once and for all in heaven. Who is more suited? An angel or the one God has designated as chief of his Kingdom?
If Jesus will be leading the armies of the Heaven in a war against the nations of the earth, why couldn&#39;t He lead the armies of God against Satan and his armies in the war in heaven? Or is He not up to that task? leave that to an angel more &#39;qualified&#39;? He can only lead against the &#39;weaker&#39; armies of the earth but not the more powerful armies of satan? Will that Job be better handled by an angel, not Christ?
I think Michael is Jesus&#39; name in the Heaven or his "nom de guerre" and He is the Archangel.

That&#39;s my thought but it might be flawed.

[fruitage]

I think that Michael is Jesus because, who is more suited to lead the final battle in heaven between good and evil? This is the battle to restore Jehovah&#39;s will and to restore order in the heaven. A battle to get rid of the devil once and for all in heaven. Who is more suited? An angel or the one God has designated as chief of his Kingdom?
If Jesus will be leading the armies of the Heaven in a war against the nations of the earth, why couldn&#39;t He lead the armies of God against Satan and his armies in the war in heaven? Or is He not up to that task? leave that to an angel more &#39;qualified&#39;? He can only lead against the &#39;weaker&#39; armies of the earth but not the more powerful armies of satan? Will that Job be better handled by an angel, not Christ?
I think Michael is Jesus&#39; name in the Heaven or his "nom de guerre" and He is the Archangel.

That&#39;s my thought but it might be flawed.[/b]

Hi Cephalon....you&#39;ve brought out some things I never thought about....and yes who is better qualified than Christ Jesus, to wage war with satan and his demons...and why would Jehovah delegate this to someone other than Christ....as Jesus has been given all authority to do his Fathers will...doesn&#39;t sound flawed to me

[Excaliber]

Kenneth,
Thats cheating you posted the whole reasoning book.

Anyway my point is that other then a bunch of guessing. Where in the bible dose God call his son Michael?

Also is the fact that Michael and satan faught each other....the only thing that makes us think he is Christ?

If it is not for sure...why make this a teaching?

I personaly think ANY angel would have been sick of satan makeing trouble in heaven.

Also even though Jesus is EXACTLY like Jehovah...you think he was only one of many princes???

The bible menchons gabriel but we dont guess he was Christ.

If gabriel had fought satan....everyone would have thought he was Jesus right?

[Jinnvisible]

So if an archangel or chief angel.....is "A" prince...and there are several princes...there must be several archangels.[/b]

Christ is described as a twig in Isaish. Not even a chief twig.

[Kenneth]

Kenneth,
Thats cheating you posted the whole reasoning book.

[/b]Excalibur
I posted it so as to get the societies perspective on the matter.



Kenneth</span></span> </span>

[Shibboleth]

Kenneth,
Thats cheating you posted the whole reasoning book.

Anyway my point is that other then a bunch of guessing. Where in the bible dose God call his son Michael?

Also is the fact that Michael and satan faught each other....the only thing that makes us think he is Christ?

If it is not for sure...why make this a teaching?

I personaly think ANY angel would have been sick of satan makeing trouble in heaven.

Also even though Jesus is EXACTLY like Jehovah...you think he was only one of many princes???

The bible menchons gabriel but we dont guess he was Christ.

If gabriel had fought satan....everyone would have thought he was Jesus right?[/b]

Michael just didn&#39;t fight Satan he did alot of other things also. He was the one that lead the Israelites and guided them in the wilderness. He also was within the dispute for Moses body with Satan. The fact is, he plays a major role in Hebrew scriptures as a protector. In the Greek scriptures he is merely mentioned in Revelation. Again what is Michael doing that he has done in the past? He is again warring with Satan, but this time it is to cleanse the Heavens. Again it sounds alot like Jesus.

You are also forgetting the fact that all the angels are described as sons of God. Jesus was by far Jehovah&#39;s favorite because he was exactly like Jehovah.

During the time the Hebrew scriptures were written there was no Jesus. He never existed. But there was an angel in heaven that would soon be Jesus. Again to reiterate, the name Jesus is a human name he most likely had a heavenly name. When he was resurected he most likely still retained his heavenly name, but he also now had a human name.

Growing up I had a friend named Earl, but his name really wasn&#39;t Earl it was Adam. Earl was a play on his last name. All his friends knew him as Earl, but his parents called him Adam. I still sometimes call him Earl but usually I just use his real name Adam.

Regards,

Shibboleth

[Excaliber]

It is true that Jesus had many descriptive names in the bible.
Many of them prophetic however they were directly used to describe Christ.
However Michael was NOT one of them.

I see it this way. Even if we had a list of names of every angel in heaven..and there asigned jobs.....we would not know for a fact which one was Jesus just by looking at what we as humans "THINK" sounds like what Jesus "COULD" have done.

The best I can come up with when I ask could Jesus have been Michael?
Possibly.

It is just not revealed in the scriptures for sure. Is it a little presumptous to just guess at things like that?
Who michael was is not even inportant for us to know RIGHT NOW, or the bible would tell us.
So why run ahead and guess at the matter?

[Berean]

Michael just didn&#39;t fight Satan he did alot of other things also. He was the one that lead the Israelites and guided them in the wilderness.[/b]
I don&#39;t think that&#39;s explicitly stated in the Bible, but it would make sense, since Michael was called the prince of the Israelites by Gabriel.


You are also forgetting the fact that all the angels are described as sons of God. Jesus was by far Jehovah&#39;s favorite because he was exactly like Jehovah.[/b]
However, Jesus was created as the firstborn of all creation, and through him everything else was made, so I do believe that Jesus had a special position before his Father from the beginning, and not because he was one of the many sons of God whom He had a special liking for. So perhaps Jesus wasn&#39;t created as an angel per se, but as a powerful spirit being, sometimes appearing as an angel... an example: if, as the Insight book implies, the angel of the abyss, Abaddon (in Revelation 9:11), refers to Jesus, then that means that the Son of God has multiple, very important tasks, and Abaddon, perhaps like Michael, would be more of a title than a name as we humans use names. I hope that made sense.

[Shibboleth]

However, Jesus was created as the firstborn of all creation, and through him everything else was made, so I do believe that Jesus had a special position before his Father from the beginning, and not because he was one of the many sons of God whom He had a special liking for. So perhaps Jesus wasn&#39;t created as an angel per se, but as a powerful spirit being, sometimes appearing as an angel... an example: if, as the Insight book implies, the angel of the abyss, Abaddon (in Revelation 9:11), refers to Jesus, then that means that the Son of God has multiple, very important tasks, and Abaddon, perhaps like Michael, would be more of a title than a name as we humans use names. I hope that made sense.[/b]

I totally do not believe that Jesus is Abaddon/Apollyon. I have a real hard time with the Watchtower&#39;s explanation of this. After doing countless research and posting many of my findings here (on the old DB) I came to the conclusion that Apollyon is totally someone else, most likely a demon or Satan. the verbage in Revelation does not imply that Abaddon/Apollyon is Jesus. I am not sure if the admins archived any of the old posts, but it would be worth to check out what I found out since I never saved my long winded posts. Also in the Climax book they only use 1 paragraph to describe Abaddon/Apollyon, but use a bevy of paragraphs to say the locust army is Witnesses. I don&#39;t see that for one second. Out of the whole book, I feel this is one subject they got wrong (amongst the dates). In no way am I discrediting the Governing Body and the great spiritual food they provide, but I feel that this was one portion that they severely fumbled the ball on.

If you cannot find my posts on this subject I may be able to dig up where I found the references to Apollyon and how I came to the conclusion this is not Jesus.


regards,

Shibboleth

[Berean]

I would much appreciate it if you could post your findings, if only a few pointers so I can research the topic further. I carefully phrased my reply to say that the Insight book &#39;implies&#39; that Abaddon refers to Jesus, since I am not entirely convinced of that myself... but that interesting sidestep aside, I merely used it as an example of how Jesus has several tasks and several names/titles would be used for him. Perhaps I should have used a less disputable example, like Isaiah 9:6. Nevertheless, I&#39;m glad I brought the topic up, since I&#39;m interested in hearing about your research into this particular question. :)

[Shibboleth]

I would much appreciate it if you could post your findings, if only a few pointers so I can research the topic further. I carefully phrased my reply to say that the Insight book &#39;implies&#39; that Abaddon refers to Jesus, since I am not entirely convinced of that myself... but that interesting sidestep aside, I merely used it as an example of how Jesus has several tasks and several names/titles would be used for him. Perhaps I should have used a less disputable example, like Isaiah 9:6. Nevertheless, I&#39;m glad I brought the topic up, since I&#39;m interested in hearing about your research into this particular question. :)[/b]

Oh I hear ya. (on the insight book portion) I did alot of research in that also to try adn come up with sound reasoning. I found no sound reasoning.

I may not have time today, but I will post it up tomorrow if time permits. I did research on Wikipedia. Do an Apollyon search as well as Abaddon. Pretty interesting read.

Since this is slightly off the topic of the original post I don&#39;t want to take away from the original topic. I will post up a new topic later concerning Abaddon/Apollyon. On the old DB I had a good discussion with quite a few of the people here, but I fear most of them may no longer be here on the new and improved site.

Regards,

Shibboleth

[Berean]

I may not have time today, but I will post it up tomorrow if time permits. I did research on Wikipedia. Do an Apollyon search as well as Abaddon. Pretty interesting read.[/b]
I already did that, and it&#39;s interesting. But like you said, this is a bit off-topic, so I&#39;m looking forward to your posting a topic about it; do take your time though, don&#39;t hurry for me. :)

[Excaliber]

I dont think this is totaly off topic.

We may never know this side of armegedon how many archangels there are...because the bible dose not say.

How ever a discusion on the names and roles that the organization has given to Jesus, such as Michael-aboddon etc...etc... is not to far of topic.

[Shibboleth]

I dont think this is totaly off topic.

We may never know this side of armegedon how many archangels there are...because the bible dose not say.

How ever a discusion on the names and roles that the organization has given to Jesus, such as Michael-aboddon etc...etc... is not to far of topic.[/b]


Thanks Excalibur. :) I started a topic on Abaddon/Apollyon just for discussional purposes since I didn&#39;t want to take away from the topic of archangels. But i do totally see that it is on teh same lines, I just didn&#39;t want to hijack.


Regards,

Shibboleth