Great Tree Of Daniel

[Steadfast]

<div align="center">Great Tree of Daniel

</div> Malachi 3 –"Look! I am sending my messenger, and he must clear up a way before me. And suddenly there will come to His temple the [true] Lord, whom you people are seeking, and the messenger of the covenant in whom you are delighting. Look! He will certainly come, Jehovah of armies has said.

But who will be putting up with the day of his coming, and who will be the one standing when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen. And he must sit as a refiner and cleanser of silver and must cleanse the sons of Levi; and he must clarify them like gold and like silver, and they will certainly become to Jehovah people presenting a gift offering in righteousness."

The great tree in Daniel 4 has long been a topic of discussion for Christians. Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses have been taught that it pictures rulership, but could the great tree in Daniel 4 ultimately picture the members of the anointed Christian congregation? Let&#39;s take a look.

Daniel 4:10-12 "Now the visions of my head upon my bed I happened to be beholding, and look! a tree in the midst of the earth, the height of which was immense. The tree grew up and became strong, and its very height finally reached the heavens, and it was visable to the extremity of the whole earth. Its foliage was fair, and its fruit was abundant, and there was food for all on it. Under it the beast of the field would seek shade, and on its boughs the birds of the heavens would dwell, and from it all flesh would feed itself."

Zechariah 4:12-14 "&#39;And I proceeded to answer and say to him: "What do these two olive trees on the right side of the lampstand and on the left side mean?&#39;…Accordingly he said: "These are the two anointed ones who are standing alongside the Lord of the whole earth."&#39;

Matthew 3:10 "Already the ax is lying at the root of the trees, every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire.&#39;

Jude 12 "These are the rocks below the water in your love feasts while they feast with you, shepherds that feed themselves without fear, waterless clouds carried this way and that by winds; trees in late autumn, fruitless, having died twice, having been uprooted."

Revelation 11:4 "These are [symbolized by] the two olive trees and the two lampstands and are standing before the Lord of the earth."

Was the representative &#39;tree&#39; chopped down in October, 2001 when Jesus came to the spiritual temple to begin inspecting and judging it? (Revelation 1-3)

Let&#39;s look at the evidence:

The catalyst could have been the 10-year alliance with the United Nations, sealed by the signature of professed anointed son, Lloyd Barry.

www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,565005,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,565005,00.html)

http://www.un.org/dpi/ngosection/ngo-docs.asp

http://www.unhchr.ch/udhr/materials/articles.htm

We all recall the shocking day that this alliance with the enemy of Jehovah God and Christ was uncovered to us. It was something that no one could have predicted or envisioned. It was unthinkable that such a betrayal could take place. Even worse was the subsequent lack of admission of guilt or repentance.

During the inspection on the spiritual temple, Jesus commends those doing good to continue doing so, and warns those who are sinning to repent.

Revelation 2:5 "Therefore remember from what you have fallen and repent and do the former deeds. If you do not, I am coming to you, and I will remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent."

Here is an interesting prophetic statement made to Nebuchadnezzar:

Daniel 4:27 (Lamsa) "Wherefore, let my counsel be acceptable to you, and get rid of your sins by means of almsgiving, and your iniquities by showing mercy to the weak, till your transgressions are removed from you."

If Jesus did come to the spiritual temple in 2001, could this also begin his parousia?

Scriptural precedence: Jehovah also &#39;visited&#39; the tower of Babel on earth to see what was going on with the sons of men by turning his attention to them. – Genesis 11:5. Did they know they were being inspected?

We know that all judging has been given into the hands of Christ, as to both the anointed congregation and the world.

John 5:27 "And he has given him authority to do judging, because Son of man he is."

Judgment begins with the house of God first.

1 Peter 4:17 "For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God."

During the judgment/inspection/refinement, Branches are cut off, leaves shaken off, fruit is scattered.

Daniel 4:14 – (ASV) &#39;He cried aloud, and said thus, Hew down the tree, and cut off its branches, shake off its leaves, and scatter its fruit: let the beasts get away from under it, and the fowls from its branches.&#39;

Jeremiah 8:12-15 – &#39;"Did they feel shame because they had done even what was detestable? For one thing, they positively could not feel ashamed; for another thing, they did not know even how to feel humiliated. Therefore they will fall among those who are falling. In the time of their being given attention, they will stumble," Jehovah has said.&#39; &#39;When doing the gathering, I shall bring them to their finish,&#39; is the utterance of Jehovah. There will be no grapes on the vine, and there will be no figs on the fig tree, and the foliage itself will certainly wither. And things I give to them will pass by them.&#39;"

The stump (rootstock) was then banded to keep it alive, to unbanded at a future time:

Daniel 4:15-16 (NWT) "However, leave its rootstock itself in the earth, even with a banding of iron and of copper…until 7 times pass over it."

(YLT) "… but the stump of its roots leave in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass …. and seven times pass over him."

and

Isaiah 6:13 (Tanakh) "But while a tenth part yet remains in it, it shall repent. It shall be ravaged like the terebinth and the oak, of which stumps are left even when they are felled: its stump shall be a holy seed."

During the banding of the tree, prior to the outbreak of the great tribulation, the final 11th hour workers are called as outlined in Matthew 20. They receive the same wage, a denarius, as was promised to all the workers, no matter what time they were employed.

The judgment/inspection/refining continues until the final sealing takes place at the beginning of the tribulation…during the 6th seal.

The unbanding of the tree is represented by the final sealing at Revelation 7:4. At that time, these ones become unrecognized-kings-in-the-flesh for the duration of the great tribulation, empowered to preach the message of Matthew 24:14:

"And this good news will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness and then the end will come."

As was already presented previously by me, the first 6 seals stand alone (Revelation 8:1-2). The four horses of Revelation 6 (first 4 seals) can begin their ride and the final sealing (6th seal) can take place in a very short period of time.

Whether the seven times mentioned in Daniel 4 prove to be seven literal years remains to be seen.

If they are literal, the seven years would run out in October, 2008.

or

It could also be an undetermined period of time, which will end with the start of the great tribulation.

Either way, the [b]judgment/ inspection/refinement on the anointed congregation will end with the sealing of the 144,000 at the beginning of the great tribulation.

When the great tribulation starts, the wild beast and false prophet come onto the scene under the guise of the one world government-one world religion, respectively. (Revelation 13)

After the rise of the one world government-one world religion:

1. The wild beast (one world government) begins its 42-month rule (Revelation 13:5).

2. Jerusalem (permanently sealed, anointed congregation) begins to be trampled for 42 months (Revelation 11:2, Luke 21:24).

and

3. The preaching of the two witnesses begins, which lasts for 1260 days. (Revelation 11:3).

When the great tribulation starts, the judgment on the house of God is finished, as evidenced by the final sealing (6th seal) at Revelation 7:4. This confirms that the judgment on the anointed congregation must take place prior to the great tribulation.

The judgment/inspection/refinement of the world then begins with the outbreak of the great tribulation…the world&#39;s call to repentance:

Revelation 9:20:21 – But the rest of the men who were not killed by these plagues did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they should not worship the demons and the idols of gold and silver and copper and stone and wood, which can neither see not hear nor walk and they did not repent of their murders nor of their spiritistic practices nor of the fornication nor of their thefts.

Revelation 16:9 – And men were scorched by intense heat, and they blasphemed the name of God, who has power over these plagues; and they did not repent to give him glory.

After the great crowd is gathered during the tribulation, final judgment is then executed upon the unrepentant world at Armageddon.

The great tribulation ends with Jesus returning with a shout and claiming his bride at the first resurrection (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, 1 Corinthians 15:52, Revelation 10:7, 11:2, 11:15).

Matthew 24:29, 31 – Immediately after the tribulation of those days….And he (Jesus) will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.

Revelation 20:6 – Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection; over such the second death has no power, but they shall be the priests of God and of his Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.

Armageddon commences after the marriage of the Lamb, with the Armageddon survivors invited to the great evening meal of God, also described as the marriage feast in Revelation 19.

So, does the great tree in Daniel depict the judgment on the anointed, would-be priests/kings of the congregation of God?

and

Is the judgment on the anointed congregation of God going on at the present time?

Daniel 4:17 (Lamsa) "This is the command of the angel at the request of the Holy One to the intent that the living may know that the Most High God rules in the kingdom of men and gives it to whomsovever he will, and appoints over it the lowest of men."

As always, I welcome your comments.

Love,

Steadfast

[Shibboleth]

You make excellent points. I was thinking of Daniel&#39;s prophecies a bit this morning. What is interesting to note that you use the date of Oct 2001. This makes sense on alot of different levels. We have a world shaking event happen just a month prior, 9/11. take 7 years from 9/11 and you come up with 2008 as year that is really important for Americans and could prove important for the world, the elections. Now a number of things could happen. All are speculative on my part, but by watching the prophecies unfold things start coming into place. I re-read the small horn prophecy and that has to do with the last days. I see Bush as this small horn. Fierce and changes laws. If there is an attack or some sort of natural disastor that affects American interests then Bush stays in power regardless of who wins. This would have to happen during an election and the timing would have to be perfect for it to happen. This is a strong possibility alot of people don&#39;t really expect to happen. I believe this is the time of the end of this system of things. Now what is really interesting is if you take 2008 and add on 7 more years we come to 2015 just over 100 years from 1914. Interesting? If my scenario plays out then Bush will take over as a dictator-styled ruler next year. 3 1/2 years he will oppress the world and that would mean an oppression of the holy ones. After 3 1/2 years the US is destroyed and he is cast then the rest of the world rulers are left for a short time.



Daniel 7

7 (http://) “After this I kept on beholding in the visions of the night, and, see there! a fourth beast, fearsome and terrible and unusually strong. And it had teeth of iron, big ones. It was devouring and crushing, and what was left it was treading down with its feet. And it was something different from all the [other] beasts that were prior to it, and it had ten horns. 8 (http://) I kept on considering the horns, and, look! another horn, a small one, came up in among them, and there were three of the first horns that were plucked up from before it. And, look! there were eyes like the eyes of a man in this horn, and there was a mouth speaking grandiose things.

19 (http://) “Then it was that I desired to make certain concerning the fourth beast, which proved to be different from all the others, extraordinarily fearsome, the teeth of which were of iron and the claws of which were of copper, which was devouring [and] crushing, and which was treading down even what was left with its feet; 20 (http://) and concerning the ten horns that were on its head, and the other [horn] that came up and before which three fell, even that horn that had eyes and a mouth speaking grandiose things and the appearance of which was bigger than that of its fellows.

21 (http://) “I kept on beholding when that very horn made war upon the holy ones, and it was prevailing against them, 22 (http://) until the Ancient of Days came and judgment itself was given in favor of the holy ones of the Supreme One, and the definite time arrived that the holy ones took possession of the kingdom itself.

23 (http://) “This is what he said, ‘As for the fourth beast, there is a fourth kingdom that will come to be on the earth, that will be different from all the [other] kingdoms; and it will devour all the earth and will trample it down and crush it. 24 (http://) And as for the ten horns, out of that kingdom there are ten kings that will rise up; and still another one will rise up after them, and he himself will be different from the first ones, and three kings he will humiliate. 25 (http://) And he will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time. 26 (http://) And the Court itself proceeded to sit, and his own rulership they finally took away, in order to annihilate [him] and to destroy [him] totally.[/b]

This scripture is interesting :


Daniel 7



11 (http://) “I kept on beholding at that time because of the sound of the grandiose words that the horn was speaking; I kept on beholding until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given to the burning fire. 12 (http://) But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and there was a lengthening in life given to them for a time and a season.[/b]

So for a year and a half after the beast with the horn is destroyed the other governments are still around but their rule was taken away.

Just all interesting and ties in with Steadfast&#39;s post.

[Molly]

Steadfast-

I&#39;m going to need a while to ponder over your observations but they are interesting.

Another scripture that might add some weight is Luke 13:18, 19: "Therefore he went on to say: "What is the kingdom of God like, and with what shall I compare it? It is like a mustard grain that a man took and put in his garden, and it grew and became a tree, and the birds of heaven took up lodging in its branches."

Molly

[Steadfast]

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

One other thought I would like to share is:

If the judgment on the anointed congregation takes place prior to the start of the great tribulation, this proves, beyond a doubt, that the white horse rider in Revelation 6 cannot be Jesus. ;)

Love,

Steadfast

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Hi Steadfast,

the reference you make to Malachi certainly applies to the purification of the spiritual house of Israel that much is clear. In fact the WTS also teaches that albeit that the timing is all wrong.

When I read your post I immediately linked the analogy to the Kingdom of the Heavens made by Jesus, just as Molly has done, but I&#39;m not convonced about the timings you put on things as this appears to be conjecture rather than scripturally well founded. The timing of Jesus coming is unknowable but it will not precede the throwing down of Satan, there is simply no evidence that that war in Heaven has occured. Hence the 2001 theory collapses I think. If Satan has been expelled, he&#39;s keeping his anger in check pretty well.

As regards the point made (not by you) that Bush is the little horn of Daniel, I think there can be no doubt that on this point that idea is just plain wrong. I suggest a rereading of some of Robert&#39;s essays might be beneficial here.

EF

[Shibboleth]

As regards the point made (not by you) that Bush is the little horn of Daniel, I think there can be no doubt that on this point that idea is just plain wrong. I suggest a rereading of some of Robert&#39;s essays might be beneficial here.[/b]


I have read some of his essays, but like all imperfect people, Robert is subject to be wrong. I don&#39;t grasp onto one view and go with it. I look at all the facts and make a decision likewise. The little horn as Bush make viable sense. Horns were not Kingdoms, horns were rulers. the Beast is the kingdom, and everything that Bush has done so far points to him as being the little horn. I guess this is my theory and it may very well be wrong. I personally think people are looking to deep into it when, if you look at the surface all the answers are there. I traverse the news all day. I read alot of news, so much that it probably has me a bit paranoid, but when you read accounts of things Bush has done in office (change laws, made himself a king to an extent) things become pretty clear at what this man&#39;s agenda really is. Why hasn&#39;t he been punished? Why hasn&#39;t he been impeached? Why hasn&#39;t there been assassination attempts on him or Cheney? Why is he so unpopular but still in office? Have you seen in your lifetime a President so hated but yet still in command? Why, because the bible states that this kingdom would not be destroyed by man but by God. So Bush&#39;s reign has something to do with the prophecies.

I am not making myself out to be a prophet or a seer or looking for any recognition. I am just searching for the Messiah and trying to escape this world. that&#39;s all I am searching for. I watch things very closely. I think alot of people are going to be amazed at what happens in the next few years, even myself. I am preparing myself now to handle the sights we will be seeing. This is all I am doing and trying to keep my head above water all at the same time.

I have some very strong views on Daniel and Revelation. I am using those two books as guides for the last days. The very days we are in.

Just the other day in England there were reports of strange lights in the sky. Hundreds of people seen them and there were pictures. Some people my just tout it as just some weird phenomenon, but to bible conscious people they could recognize it as signs that Jesus said would happen "in the stars and heavens". Is it pertinent to the prophecies? I don&#39;t know, but I keep all these things I read in the back of my mind.

I guess EF what it boils down to for me is that I read what people have to say, but I don&#39;t just follow one viewpoint. Doing that stagnates yourself and when you follow one man&#39;s view and it doesn&#39;t happen the way the one man says where do you go?

Keep your &#39;head on a swivel&#39; is what I say. Always keep alert to your surroundings. I just gotta go with my gut feeling. I&#39;ll keep speculating and theorizing untill someday the answer is clear.

[Jeshurun]

Shibb, Bush is only a puppet. The man can&#39;t even take part in a debate without wearing a wire. He&#39;s an obedient slave to the global bankers and oilmen, not to mention daddy, George Schultz, etc. Once the US/UK receives the death-stroke, there&#39;s no telling what might happen. Bush is only serving the beast until they&#39;re finished with him. He&#39;s doing a great job for them, he has no heart and steely nerves, a job they knew that Gore or Kerry couldn&#39;t do.

[Shibboleth]

Shibb, Bush is only a puppet. The man can&#39;t even take part in a debate without wearing a wire. He&#39;s an obedient slave to the global bankers and oilmen, not to mention daddy, George Schultz, etc. Once the US/UK receives the death-stroke, there&#39;s no telling what might happen. Bush is only serving the beast until they&#39;re finished with him. He&#39;s doing a great job for them, he has no heart and steely nerves, a job they knew that Gore or Kerry couldn&#39;t do.[/b]

That&#39;s an act. Have you ever seen any of Bush&#39;s speeches and debates before he was president? He plays stupid because stupid works and since most Americans are stupid, especially ones that voted for him, he wins. His whole campaign focus was to get the ignorant voters. Believe me Bush is a very smart man and Cheney is just as smart.

Right now Bush is setup to checkmate the US.

[Eli&#39;s Foe]

Shibb, I dont think Bush is any more stupid than the next man, but the point is that he is still subject to forces much bigger than him. Similarly you may be right about the role he may play in the next year or so, but that is a far cry from saying he is the little horn depicted in Daniel.

I take your point about not relying on any man&#39;s interpretations, but the problem with that approach is that you would have also rejected Christ himself. Sometime, somewhere Jehovah has to reveal the truth through a human being. Now at times I think anyone who has a truth revealed to him may fall into the trap of over-stepping the mark at times. Usually those times are evident to observers if not to the revealer of truth himself, but if you dont accept Watchman as having shown the way at least in certain areas of the scriptures, why are you here?

Why not explain the context of your assertion and then we can discuss the merits of your argument. Surely you&#39;d agree that the scriptures must be able to interpret themselves and that any interpretation must be in context, so I presume you have thought about the wider angle here?

Ef

[Steadfast]

Eli&#39;sFoe said:

"The timing of Jesus coming is unknowable but it will not precede the throwing down of Satan, there is simply no evidence that that war in Heaven has occured. Hence the 2001 theory collapses I think. If Satan has been expelled, he&#39;s keeping his anger in check pretty well."

My comments: I agree that the war in heaven has not yet occurred, neither has Satan been cast out yet. He will be cast out at the beginning of the tribulation.

What I am saying is that the judgment on Christ&#39;s brothers could take place before the great tribulation starts.

There is nothing in scripture that I am aware of to say that the parousia couldn&#39;t start with the judgment on the temple of God before Satan is cast out, as Jesus has been King over the anointed congregation since he went back to heaven after his resurrection. In fact, the ordering of Revelation 12 shows that the sealing does take place before Satan is cast out in verse 7.

Another point to be made is that Jesus did judge the literal temple in Jerusalem before the tribulation began in 66 CE.

Love,

Steafast

[Jeshurun]

What I am saying is that the judgment on Christ&#39;s brothers could take place before the great tribulation starts.

Another point to be made is that Jesus did judge the literal temple in Jerusalem before the tribulation began in 66 CE.[/b]

Those are excellent points Steadfast, it would make a lot of sense if Jesus came to inspect the Temple first, judged that it needed cleansing, and then it was allowed to come under attack. This is something I didn&#39;t realize before you made your point. I would imagine that Jehovah&#39;s people would then be judged individually by their response to the ensuing persecution, and then regathered into a new "administration", the name of which Jehovah will designate (!).

Agape
Lou

[Shibboleth]

I take your point about not relying on any man&#39;s interpretations, but the problem with that approach is that you would have also rejected Christ himself. Sometime, somewhere Jehovah has to reveal the truth through a human being. Now at times I think anyone who has a truth revealed to him may fall into the trap of over-stepping the mark at times. Usually those times are evident to observers if not to the revealer of truth himself, but if you dont accept Watchman as having shown the way at least in certain areas of the scriptures, why are you here?[/b]


Hey EF, I said in my above post imperfect man. Jesus is perfect and he is the basis for the prophecies so I would put Jesus above the imperfect humans and their thoughts.

The reason I am here is evident from the get go. This is supposed to be a place for Witnesses to get together and talk about things going on in the world and how why we are here and what our purpose is. It says above, "Jehovah&#39;s Witnesses - An Online Community" not "Robert King&#39;s Online Community". I wouldn&#39;t be here if it said that. My understanding was Robert started this site to talk about things going on in the Society and to talk about what it means to be Witnesses and the prophecies. From the very beginning I have stated I do not believe some things Robert has said here. For the most part he makes sense, but I am not here to discuss Robert, I am here to discuss Jesus and the Prophecies. I am not here to follow Robert, I am here cause I am following Christ. I also have issues with the Society, but I am still a Witness. Just because I have a different view then Robert or others doesn&#39;t mean I can&#39;t talk about it here. I think Robert understands not everyone will believe what he has to say.

On another note I profusely apologize to Steadfast for hijacking the thread. I am sorry.

My reasoning on why I believe that Bush is the little horn stems from things he has done while in office.n He has changed law. He has said he gets his direction Divinely through Christ. We are propelled in a war we will never win. Our very freedoms are at stake. He has changed laws to go around our freedoms. All things the little horn was said to do. Now like I have said above this is just a theory. Thats it. I had found it interesting that steadfast used a date, Oct 2001, as the point when the Society stopped being in the NGO. Is it coincedent that just a month before the World Trade Center was destroyed? It would be during the rule of the little horn we would see crazy things happening. Like I have said previously, Bush is setup perfectly to take over the country if certain things take place. All I am doing is waiting to see if these things do take place. If it does then I know I am on the right track. If it doesn&#39;t it won&#39;t bother me. I will just look and keep searching and I will continue to read Robert&#39;s essays (which are well done).

I truely believe events are going to be stepped up in the next year. Another note is, I am being attacked severely by Satan. It&#39;s just as bad as it was right before 9/11. The year leading up to 9/11 I was disfellowshipped. I was being attacked left and right. It was horrible and I am experiencing that right now. that same feeling of dread. My gut has just got this feeling. I believe Satan knows its over and he is stepping up his attacks on us. It was never easy to be a witness, but it is so much harder today then it was 20 years ago.

I guess EF what set me off was you said I was "wrong". How do you know I am wrong? How do you know Robert is right? How do you know the Society is right or wrong? We don&#39;t know. You see, the funny thing about theories is, they are never wrong cause they are just theories. When theories turn wrong is when people believe them to be truth. I am not saying my theories are truth.

[eyes&ears]

Hi Jesh,


I very much like this statement you made:

Sometime, somewhere Jehovah has to reveal the truth through a human being. Now at times I think anyone who has a truth revealed to him may fall into the trap of over-stepping the mark at times. Usually those times are evident to observers if not to the revealer of truth himself,

Very wise words Jesh.

KEEP HOLD N ON TIGHT OKEY DOKEY

E & E

[eyes&ears]

Wow Steadfast,

I&#39;m gonna have to print this out and do my homework for the weekend. This is great. Thanks for making me think hmmmmmmmmmmm.

E & E

[littleone]

Daniel Chapter 4 is definately an interesting prophecy. But where is its application? No doubt it was a prophetic shadow of what would happen during a future fulfillment... not just in King Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s day. So lets examine a few key elements of it... starting at verse 1:

Neb·u·chad·nez´zar the king, to all the peoples, national groups and languages that are dwelling in all the earth: May YOUR peace grow great. 2 The signs and wonders that the Most High God has performed with me, it has seemed good to me to declare. 3 How grand his signs are, and how mighty his wonders are! His kingdom is a kingdom to time indefinite, and his rulership is for generation after generation. - Daniel 4:1-3

It is interesting to note that Nebuchadnezzar himself mentions that Jehovah&#39;s kingdom was one that would last to time indefinite, and his rulership was one that would last for generation after generation. No doubt that this is a true statement. But what about Nebuchanezzar&#39;s kingdom? Would it be the same? Apparently not. For this prophecy actually shows that Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s kingdom would fall... but yet it would revive.

Also interesting to note is who Nebuchadnezzar actually was. He was considered the "first king" of the Babylonian empire. Sure, the babylonians had kings before him in the land of Babylon, but Nebuchadnezzar was the one that made Babylon into a world empire. Also interesting to note is what Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s relationship according to Jehovah&#39;s people was. He was the "sword of vengeance" that Jehovah himself had used upon his unfaithful people. Those who were faithful out of Jehovah&#39;s people found themselves in Babylonish captivity during this period. As a matter of fact, the one who gave Nebuchadnezzar the interpretation of the dream was infact a Jew who was under Babylonish captivity... Daniel.

So lets consider the meaning of the dream:

The tree that you beheld, that grew great and became strong and the height of which finally reached the heavens and which was visible to all the earth, 21 and the foliage of which was fair, and the fruit of which was abundant, and on which there was food for all; under which the beasts of the field would dwell, and on the boughs of which the birds of the heavens would reside, 22 it is you, O king, because you have grown great and become strong, and your grandeur has grown great and reached to the heavens, and your rulership to the extremity of the earth. - Daniel 4:20-22

Interestingly we find out that the "tree" actually represented Nebuchadnezzar himself. But how did he become "great and become strong"; his grandeur grow "great and reached to the heavens"; his rulership to "the extremity of the earth"? No doubt it was through "his kingdom" that he himself became these things. For his kingdom was a vast kingdom, which was considered to have ruled over the "extremity of the earth". His kingdom was the Babylonish kingdom. But lets see what happens to that kingdom:

And because the king beheld a watcher, even a holy one, coming down from the heavens, who was also saying: "CHOP the tree down, and RUIN it. However, LEAVE its rootstock itself in the earth, but with a banding of iron and of copper, among the grass of the field, and with the dew of the heavens let it become wet, and with the beasts of the field let its portion be until seven times themselves pass over it," 24this is the interpretation, O king, and the decree of the Most High is that which must befall my lord the king. 25 And you they will be driving away from men, and with the beasts of the field your dwelling will come to be, and the vegetation is what they will give even to you to eat just like bulls; and with the dew of the heavens you yourself will be getting wet, and seven times themselves will pass over you, until you know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind, and that to the one whom he wants to he gives it. - Daniel 4: 23-25

Here we see that Nebuchanezzar is to lose his kingdom, but only for awhile. Then we see that his kingdom is to be restored to him. But what was the purpose for this? The scriptures tell us "until you know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind, and that to the one whom he wants to he gives it". Here we learn that Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s kingdom does not represent a heavenly kingdom, but rather the "kingdom of mankind". It is also interesting to note that this "kingdom of mankind" had many interesting simularities to that of the heavenly kingdom as spoken about by Jesus Christ in Matthew chapter 13. But yet, what Jesus speaks about is a "heavenly kingdom", and not necessarily the "kingdom of mankind". Lets take a look at Jesus&#39; words:

Another illustration he set before them, saying: "The kingdom of the heavens is like a mustard grain, which a man took and planted in his field; 32 which is, in fact, the tiniest of all the seeds, but when it has grown it is the largest of the vegetables and becomes a tree, so that the birds of heaven come and find lodging among its branches." - Matthew 13:31,32

We see in Jesus&#39; words that he likens the "kingdom of the heavens" to that of a mustard grain, which grows into the largest vegetables and becomes a "tree". This tree also puts forth branches, so that the "birds of heaven" come and find lodging amongst its branches. Wow! This sounds very simular to Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s dream. But is it the same thing? Well, first lets take a look at what the "birds of heaven" represent in Jesus&#39; parable. In an earlier parable, the one about the sower sowing "seeds", Jesus says:

Look! A sower went out to sow; 4 and as he was sowing, some [seeds] fell alongside the road, and the birds came and ate them up. 5 Others fell upon the rocky places where they did not have much soil, and at once they sprang up because of not having depth of soil. 6 But when the sun rose they were scorched, and because of not having root they withered. 7 Others, too, fell among the thorns, and the thorns came up and choked them. 8 Still others fell upon the fine soil and they began to yield fruit, this one a hundredfold, that one sixty, the other thirty. 9 Let him that has ears listen. - Matthew 13:3-9

So what did these "birds" represent? Lets see what Jesus says:

YOU, then, listen to the illustration of the man that sowed. 19 Where anyone hears the word of the kingdom but does not get the sense of it, the wicked one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart; this is the one sown alongside the road. - Matthew 13: 18-19

Jesus here mentions that it is the "wicked one" that comes and snatches away what has been sown in the heart. So here he likens the "birds" as being from the "wicked one". So the "birds" spoken about in Jesus&#39; parable are no doubt agents of "the wicked one" that do the wicked one&#39;s will. This gives us a good clue as to the meaning of the "birds" being spoken about in Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s dream.

But lets consider why the tree was cut down in Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s dream. The scriptures tell us it was cut down "until you know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind, and that to the one whom he wants to he gives it."(Daniel 4:25) We see Jehovah&#39;s expression of his universal sovreignty here. Although we all know that this "system of things lies in the power of the wicked one", Jehovah can interceed anytime he wants to, because he always holds supreme authority and power, both in heaven and on earth. This is why even though this system of things has been given to Satan to do what he wishes with it, Jehovah still remains the ultimate ruler in control of everything.

But now lets consider Nebuchadnezzar whose kingdom was that of the "kingdom of mankind". He became the ruler of the Babylon empire, which Jehovah&#39;s people in that day found themselves under captivity to. But lets see what happened in the initial fulfillment of this prophecy:

At the end of twelve lunar months he happened to be walking upon the royal palace of Babylon. 30 The king was answering and saying: "Is not this Babylon the Great, that I myself have built for the royal house with the strength of my might and for the dignity of my majesty?" 31 While the word was yet in the king&#39;s mouth, there was a voice that fell from the heavens: "To you it is being said, O Neb·u·chad·nez´zar the king, &#39;The kingdom itself has gone away from you, 32 and from mankind they are driving even you away, and with the beasts of the field your dwelling will be. Vegetation they will give even to you to eat just like bulls, and seven times themselves will pass over you, until you know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind, and that to the one whom he wants to he gives it.&#39;" - Daniel 4:29-32

We see here that Nebuchadnezzar himself likens his kingdom to "Babylon the Great". But where did we hear this term before? Did we not hear this term in the book of Revelation? We surely did. But what is "the royal house" that he speaks about? No doubt that this "royal house" is not Jehovah&#39;s royal house, but instead it is Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s royal house, filled with royal dignitaries that were Babylonish, and not Jewish. Who represents the royal house of Jehovah? No doubt the anointed do. But this kingdom set up by Nebuchanezzar also has a royal house. Yet, these ones are not Jews, but are of the royal house of the Chaldeans instead.


We already seen that Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s kingdom does have very many simularities to the kingdom that Jesus himself spoke about. However, one is "the kingdom of mankind", but yet the other is "the kingdom of the heavens". One is "earthly", while the other one is "heavenly". We also know that Jehovah&#39;s people were kept as captives by that "earthly" kingdom.

But if we look in the book of Revelation, do we find that Jehovah&#39;s people are also found within "Babylon the Great"? We surely do. For we read about the call to Jehovah&#39;s people to "come out" of her:

And I heard another voice out of heaven say: "Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind." - Revelation 18:4,5

Here we learn that infact Jehovah&#39;s people are found in "Babylon the Great". What is more interesting is the things said about Babylon:

Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again. 22 And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp and of musicians and of flutists and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again, and no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again, 23 and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again - Revelation 18:21-23

It is very interesting to note that these things highlighted in red are things that the bible mentions only concerning those who are of the anointed. They are likened to singers who accompany themselves on a harp, as lamps. Also who is it that represents the "bridegroom"? Is it not Jesus Christ himself? And who is it that represents the "bride"? Is it not the anointed, Jesus Christ&#39;s brothers? It surely is.

As we can see, Jehovah&#39;s people are indeed found within Babylon the Great. But they come out of her. This is why there is never again heard these things within her. Likewise, the scriptures also show that the nation of Israel was also released from Babylonish Captivity during the fall of the Babylonian empire.

But what does this "kingdom of mankind" represent? Obviously it kingdom which unfortunately Jehovah&#39;s people find themselves captive within. It is in stark contrast to the "freedom in connection with Jesus Christ" that Jehovah&#39;s people find within the heavenly kingdom. Likewise, it looks very simular to the heavenly kingdom... yet it is an earthly one. One could say that it is an earthly representation of the heavenly kingdom... yet, we see that it is indeed Nebuchadnezzar&#39;s kingdom, and that it holds Jehovah&#39;s people in captivity.

It is also interesting to note from the account of Babel in Genesis that to the men of the earth that the name "Babel" which the word "Babylon" derives from means the "Gates of God". However, to the one that spoke Hebrew, it meant "Confusion"... for that is the meaning that Jehovah gave to that name. Likewise today, in a spiritual sense, that name means the same thing... to the majority that city means "Gates of God", but to he that speaks hebrew in a spiritual sense, the name means "confusion" instead.