Let's help our friends and familys

Jah-son said:
The more I learn from my new perspective of the scriptures after reading RKs book, articles, videos and many of the discussions on this forum, the more I feel a need to help others to understand these things before or during the fall of the WT. Especially those closest to me, those who are still able to reason and use common sense.

Please share your thoughts, strategies and experience in reasoning with others. Just as we were trained to use the scriptures to reason with people on the outside, we will need to do the same with people on the inside. If not now, in the near future.
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I am feeling the same need! At first I had the urge to disappear and burn all my bridges, because I felt so disappointed and betrayed. But I am finally adjusting to this altered reality. I've been meditating on how to move forward. It's complicated. How can I share without being branded an apostate? Where do I need to be so can best help the people I know and love? As far as the congregation, I have decided I need to remain "semi-active" and keep my jw relationships on good terms, but I have significantly faded into the background. I'm still around, but not participating or contributing.

I hope that when the time comes, I will be in a position to guide anyone who starts to question things. I decided to pray that I am directed to such ones, because it's not easy to know who they are. Surely there are some who curiously research and think for themselves. They may start seeing same the things that made us "snap out of it." But they have to be ready. Nobody could've said anything to make me question my beliefs until I was ready. I had to hit rock bottom (the GB updates), make the conscious decision to open myself up to outside information, research everything objectively on my own. The information is out there for those yearning to have true understanding. That's how we all ended up here, thank goodness.

I currently feel like the subtle route (asking questions to get them thinking) is the most effective to get the wheels turning and keep them open to discussion. For me, the direct approach was not working out. I tried it with family and they immediately shut it down. Not open to any discussion, too much indoctrination. Also speaking my mind openly would surely lead to me being "dealt with" and hushed.

I would be so grateful for anyone on here to share ideas about how to have subtle conversations without raising too much suspicion.

@Driven I am feeling like you about the meetings. I cannot bring myself to go either. It's a very strong intuition. I may go back eventually, but for now my masked family is going to the masked hall without me. There have been consistently 30-40 zoom connections with 50-70 individuals in attendance via zoom at every one of our meetings. The majority have their cameras off.
 
Having given this a bit more thought, perhaps the approach that might be most effective is to discuss an aspect of prophecy that will be fulfilled in the future. As all JW's know the WT has built an expectation that the great tribulation is all that is left on the prophetic calendar and, of course, Babylon the Great is going to be liquidated then. But if you have come to see things differently then you might be able to suggest a slightly different development in the future; namely, the sudden crash of the mighty Anglo-American system. More than likely they will not believe you now, but when it happens they will.
 
One one of the items that got me thinking along the lines of helping others is an interview that someone posted in another thread regarding the Bethelite shakeup during the 80s. In the interview with 2 ex Bethelites, they explained how there were individual groups at Bethel who were getting together to study the Bible on their own without any WT influence (this was actually encouraged at the time). Many began noticing discrepancies in the WT doctrines, prophecies, etc that did not harmonize with scripture which began their journey of discovery. There are obviously enough of those discrepancies that honest, unadulterated Bible study could reveal them.
I think that many active Witnesses already know that the WT does not possess much understanding of prophecy (the flip flopping is maddening). Must of us labored through the recent book study of the "pure worship" book. (My wife complained through the entire book).
The point is, the evidence is available if we allow ourselves to explore.
As many others have pointed out, it may take a crash before most will be shaken out of their slumber. That's likely true.
I guess, I long for an ally. As much as I enjoy this group, it would be nice to be able to speak openly to someone about the things I'm learning. I suppose that this is how many true worshipers felt in the past during the many times of organizational apostasy. 🤔
 
I've tried talking to several family members over the years, but it didn't help. The only response I got is that I'm involved with apostates and if I'm not careful I will become apostate as well.
A while ago I talked to family members (both elders) about the vaccination. I sent them proof about the risks and also that fetal cell tissue was used in the testing of the approved vaccines.
I got reply back which said that:
"update nbr 8 of the GB swept all of the worldly info under the table. The org is being led by Jesus and Jehovah and it shows that vaccination is the the best and it is needed for our survival. It surprises us that you put more trust in scientific material of the world instead of the counsel of the GB. Whom will you listen to during the tribulation?"

This was the response of my family members who are usually open-minded...
 
Watchman said:
the sudden crash of the mighty Anglo-American system. More than likely they will not believe you now, but when it happens they will.
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then what do they think the Great tribulation is? A walk in the park? Well, i hate to say it but yes, many JWs do think it’ll be a walk in the park- a national park that is, to wit: a pioneer sister and close friend of mind once said that the Great Tribulation was going to be like “roughing it”. She imagined hunkering down at a camp site somewhere until the worst of it passed. We didn’t share the same sentiment, but i didn’t let my feelings or thought be known- i simply said- “I hope you’re right”. At that point, i was still in but the U.N. kill shot program had commenced.

OT- FYI- Has anybody heard what’s happening in Rhode Island? They’ve introduced a bill that makes the kill shot(s) mandatory for residents- subject to a $50 a month fine for non-compliance and a $5000-per fine for non compliance for businesses. It hasn’t cleared the legislature, but. . .
 
Jah-son said:
As many others have pointed out, it may take a crash before most will be shaken out of their slumber. That's likely true.
I guess, I long for an ally. As much as I enjoy this group, it would be nice to be able to speak openly to someone about the things I'm learning. I suppose that this is how many true worshipers felt in the past during the many times of organizational apostasy.
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I get it, I feel the same way. It's miserable to have to hide part of yourself to keep others comfortable. I want more than anything to openly discuss what I've learned with my spouse (or at least someone in my life), but for now that's not happening...yet. I keep telling myself these circumstances are temporary. Things will be more obvious when events start happening that don't line up with what they expect, and I just hope the ones we love can open their eyes and accept what's actually happening. It's so shocking, most don't have the courage to face it... yet. Like Robert said pointing out an alternative view of prophecy fulfillment may be the thing to shake them to their senses when it all starts crumbling, and not like they thought it would. You will be there, with the logical answers.
barry said:
It surprises us that you put more trust in scientific material of the world instead of the counsel of the GB. Whom will you listen to during the tribulation?"
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I heard the same thing from multiple people. They will not question the GB and cannot be reasoned with. I am hopeful they will come around though, because just last year I had the same attitude!
Asadour said:
yes, many JWs do think it’ll be a walk in the park
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Sad but true. They are expecting to be herded into a field or basement by soldiers and have an angel come and miraculously protect them. Untouchables, in a protective bubble of holy spirit. The don't want to consider any alternative because it's too uncertain. Faith in Jehovah will be absolutely essential, because faith in the organization will be irrelevant. I actually had one sister tell me she was worried about not being able to get her fingernails and toenails done during the GT. Seriously delusional.
 
barry said:
I've tried talking to several family members over the years, but it didn't help. The only response I got is that I'm involved with apostates and if I'm not careful I will become apostate as well.
A while ago I talked to family members (both elders) about the vaccination. I sent them proof about the risks and also that fetal cell tissue was used in the testing of the approved vaccines.
I got reply back which said that:
"update nbr 8 of the GB swept all of the worldly info under the table. The org is being led by Jesus and Jehovah and it shows that vaccination is the the best and it is needed for our survival. It surprises us that you put more trust in scientific material of the world instead of the counsel of the GB. Whom will you listen to during the tribulation?"

This was the response of my family members who are usually open-minded...
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Perhaps they would reconsider if the the jab turned them gay. Being gay is serious wrongdoing in Gods eyes.
www.huffpost.com

Italian Scientist Argues That Vaccines 'Produce Homosexuality'

Italian Scientist Argues That Vaccines 'Produce Homosexuality'
www.huffpost.com www.huffpost.com
 
PJ54 said:
If the Org says yes to that, imagine an LGBT+ JW.org logo.... That would rock the boat!
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they already have the symbol of 33° Freemason sex displayed in one of their programs called The Inside Story- it appears as the compass and square in the background, but in reality (look closely) the compass and square is a sex position. This would not be a big jump for the Gov Body- remember- illogical, impractical and strange.

JWs are being conditioned right now, as sheep to the slaughter, to accept whatever the Gov Body tells them to do. They better wake up.

Recall the Samaritan woman at the well- she was changed by just a few words- “Give me a drink”, perhaps only a few words are necessary to wake up JWs- “You are following men”.
 
Asadour said:
incidentally- illogical impractical and strange itself is a 33° Freemason tenet: Light is dark, dark is light, nature rules, do what thou wilt.

It’s all falling together.
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Just as it is written:
(Isaiah 5:20) 20 Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good, Those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness, Those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
 
barry said:
The org is being led by Jesus and Jehovah and it shows that vaccination is the the best and it is needed for our survival. It surprises us that you put more trust in scientific material of the world instead of the counsel of the GB.
Click to expand...
The obvious question here is, "how did Jehovah and Jesus communicate to this imperfect GB that the vaccines were safe?" They prayed about it and what? They have a "feeling" it's the right thing to do! I have been a JW for over 50 years and I would NEVER have said this in hgalf a century until now...there is no better proof that the WT is a cult with statements like this. Unless an angel is meeting with the GB they have no more information about this vaccine than the rest of us!
 
Nomex said:
The obvious question here is, "how did Jehovah and Jesus communicate to this imperfect GB that the vaccines were safe?" They prayed about it and what? They have a "feeling" it's the right thing to do! I have been a JW for over 50 years and I would NEVER have said this in half a century until now...there is no better proof that the WT is a cult with statements like this. Unless an angel is meeting with the GB they have no more information about this vaccine than the rest of us!
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At this rate you can bet the possibility of the GB giving sermons & speaking tongues like Kenneth Copeland.
 
Watchman said:
As all JW's know the WT has built an expectation that the great tribulation is all that is left on the prophetic calendar and, of course, Babylon the Great is going to be liquidated then.
Click to expand...
I think this is the best angle by far. Robert when I first found your info I sent you an email basically saying for many years I found the explanation for what is going to happen with the GT to be.... let's saying lacking. You replied in a single sentence, something to the effect, "that's because it is not going to happen the way WT says"...(That's a paraphrase for sure, but it was short and sweet, and exactly what already knew.)


But here's the point. The reason I had been questioning everything save the things I knew to be true from WT, (Jesus son of God, not God, No hellfire, no immortal soul, restoration of paradise earth, etc), was because the there is no good explanation for how the GT starts. It's not even a bad explanation. It's just plain lazy.

This is how i went down this road. I asked the person I knew to be the smartest person when it came to the Bible. My father. No one I have ever known knew more about God's Word than my father. So probably 30 years ago i asked him, "I don't understand how the world governments are going to turn on religion, especially with the 1st amendment in this country, and destroy all religion of earth." His answer, "Jehovah puts it into their minds."

And that is the only answer you will get from any and all JW's.

So i was still very young when i first had this realization, and have had about 3 decades to think about this, and had time the last two years to really refine my thinking and understanding on everything.

So, I'm not sure who else besides the one person, whose on this forum, my wife and my kids I can influence, but here's what i would do if I have even a possibility to have someone's ear and they would listen to me.

Here's how I would start. I would refine the question I wrote above to this....keep in mind the best way to influence someone is to make them think they thought it themselves....so i would start by saying....

"We know the King of the North leads the destruction of Babylon the Great, and destroys the entire world of all false religion. Obviously, this will take a miracle. The world is divided in opposition to Russia, the KOTN, so how do you think Russia gets all the nations of the world to stop all war efforts against everyone else and instead focus on religion, and get the whole world to follow their lead?"

At this point be ready, there answer will be, the only one they have, "Jehovah puts it in their minds." At which point I would ask, So why has Jehovah waited so long. At least 108 years. Why not destroy the rebels 6000 years ago, if now after all this time he's just going to force the nations to do his will? What happened to "free will?" Or could it be that the rest of that verse that says, "it's their one thought" to carry out this execution of religion just happens to align with Jehovah's purpose, because we have free will, so he allows man to do what they want? Having that all in mind, that it is "their one thought" what has to happen so that the whole world aligns itself in "one thought" world wide to destroy all religion on earth?"


The whole problem with the WT doctrine on how the GT takes place, "god put's into their minds" means Jehovah takes away their free will.

So Jehovah waited all this time and let all this suffering to take place, and then in the end, took away the free will of mankind by forcing them to execute his judgements on mankind!

No, when it says, "their one thought" it literally means it's what they want to do, because they have free will, it just so happens Jehovah wants the execution of false religion also...and finally in the end, when some or many choose Jehovah as God and governor, he will execute his judgement on the remainder of the rebels, based on the free will of those who choose to follow HIM, Jehovah!

The one question remains, why do they want to remove all other religion? Because they are going to supplant it with a one world religion! Just like the counterfeit One World Government Satan is setting up in opposition to Jehovah's Government, he will do the same with all opposing religion.
 
Nomex said:
I think this is the best angle by far. Robert when I first found your info I sent you an email basically saying for many years I found the explanation for what is going to happen with the GT to be.... let's saying lacking. You replied in a single sentence, something to the effect, "that's because it is not going to happen the way WT says"...(That's a paraphrase for sure, but it was short and sweet, and exactly what already knew.)


But here's the point. The reason I had been questioning everything save the things I knew to be true from WT, (Jesus son of God, not God, No hellfire, no immortal soul, restoration of paradise earth, etc), was because the there is no good explanation for how the GT starts. It's not even a bad explanation. It's just plain lazy.

This is how i went down this road. I asked the person I knew to be the smartest person when it came to the Bible. My father. No one I have ever known knew more about God's Word than my father. So probably 30 years ago i asked him, "I don't understand how the world governments are going to turn on religion, especially with the 1st amendment in this country, and destroy all religion of earth." His answer, "Jehovah puts it into their minds."

And that is the only answer you will get from any and all JW's.

So i was still very young when i first had this realization, and have had about 3 decades to think about this, and had time the last two years to really refine my thinking and understanding on everything.

So, I'm not sure who else besides the one person, whose on this forum, my wife and my kids I can influence, but here's what i would do if I have even a possibility to have someone's ear and they would listen to me.

Here's how I would start. I would refine the question I wrote above to this....keep in mind the best way to influence someone is to make them think they thought it themselves....so i would start by saying....

"We know the King of the North leads the destruction of Babylon the Great, and destroys the entire world of all false religion. Obviously, this will take a miracle. The world is divided in opposition to Russia, the KOTN, so how do you think Russia gets all the nations of the world to stop all war efforts against everyone else and instead focus on religion, and get the whole world to follow their lead?"

At this point be ready, there answer will be, the only one they have, "Jehovah puts it in their minds." At which point I would ask, So why has Jehovah waited so long. At least 108 years. Why not destroy the rebels 6000 years ago, if now after all this time he's just going to force the nations to do his will? What happened to "free will?" Or could it be that the rest of that verse that says, "it's their one thought" to carry out this execution of religion just happens to align with Jehovah's purpose, because we have free will, so he allows man to do what they want? Having that all in mind, that it is "their one thought" what has to happen so that the whole world aligns itself in "one thought" world wide to destroy all religion on earth?"


The whole problem with the WT doctrine on how the GT takes place, "god put's into their minds" means Jehovah takes away their free will.

So Jehovah waited all this time and let all this suffering to take place, and then in the end, took away the free will of mankind by forcing them to execute his judgements on mankind!

No, when it says, "their one thought" it literally means it's what they want to do, because they have free will, it just so happens Jehovah wants the execution of false religion also...and finally in the end, when some or many choose Jehovah as God and governor, he will execute his judgement on the remainder of the rebels, based on the free will of those who choose to follow HIM, Jehovah!

The one question remains, why do they want to remove all other religion? Because they are going to supplant it with a one world religion! Just like the counterfeit One World Government Satan is setting up in opposition to Jehovah's Government, he will do the same with all opposing religion.
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I just took a stroll through the hallowed hallways (notice I did not say hollowed LOL) of Nomex's mind and it is not as dangerous a place to be as I once might have thought. Strong work as usual bro! Let's talk on the phone again next week. I need me some Nomex time!!
 
Nomex said:
I think this is the best angle by far. Robert when I first found your info I sent you an email basically saying for many years I found the explanation for what is going to happen with the GT to be.... let's saying lacking. You replied in a single sentence, something to the effect, "that's because it is not going to happen the way WT says"...(That's a paraphrase for sure, but it was short and sweet, and exactly what already knew.)


But here's the point. The reason I had been questioning everything save the things I knew to be true from WT, (Jesus son of God, not God, No hellfire, no immortal soul, restoration of paradise earth, etc), was because the there is no good explanation for how the GT starts. It's not even a bad explanation. It's just plain lazy.

This is how i went down this road. I asked the person I knew to be the smartest person when it came to the Bible. My father. No one I have ever known knew more about God's Word than my father. So probably 30 years ago i asked him, "I don't understand how the world governments are going to turn on religion, especially with the 1st amendment in this country, and destroy all religion of earth." His answer, "Jehovah puts it into their minds."

And that is the only answer you will get from any and all JW's.

So i was still very young when i first had this realization, and have had about 3 decades to think about this, and had time the last two years to really refine my thinking and understanding on everything.

So, I'm not sure who else besides the one person, whose on this forum, my wife and my kids I can influence, but here's what i would do if I have even a possibility to have someone's ear and they would listen to me.

Here's how I would start. I would refine the question I wrote above to this....keep in mind the best way to influence someone is to make them think they thought it themselves....so i would start by saying....

"We know the King of the North leads the destruction of Babylon the Great, and destroys the entire world of all false religion. Obviously, this will take a miracle. The world is divided in opposition to Russia, the KOTN, so how do you think Russia gets all the nations of the world to stop all war efforts against everyone else and instead focus on religion, and get the whole world to follow their lead?"

At this point be ready, there answer will be, the only one they have, "Jehovah puts it in their minds." At which point I would ask, So why has Jehovah waited so long. At least 108 years. Why not destroy the rebels 6000 years ago, if now after all this time he's just going to force the nations to do his will? What happened to "free will?" Or could it be that the rest of that verse that says, "it's their one thought" to carry out this execution of religion just happens to align with Jehovah's purpose, because we have free will, so he allows man to do what they want? Having that all in mind, that it is "their one thought" what has to happen so that the whole world aligns itself in "one thought" world wide to destroy all religion on earth?"


The whole problem with the WT doctrine on how the GT takes place, "god put's into their minds" means Jehovah takes away their free will.

So Jehovah waited all this time and let all this suffering to take place, and then in the end, took away the free will of mankind by forcing them to execute his judgements on mankind!

No, when it says, "their one thought" it literally means it's what they want to do, because they have free will, it just so happens Jehovah wants the execution of false religion also...and finally in the end, when some or many choose Jehovah as God and governor, he will execute his judgement on the remainder of the rebels, based on the free will of those who choose to follow HIM, Jehovah!

The one question remains, why do they want to remove all other religion? Because they are going to supplant it with a one world religion! Just like the counterfeit One World Government Satan is setting up in opposition to Jehovah's Government, he will do the same with all opposing religion.
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Nice logical explanation...I totally agree that they desire and will set up a world religion. Ive always believed that they would. It only makes sense.
 
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