I live in Florida. I know some real life example at work where a security officer went to show a fellow employee his gun cause he was interested in buying a gun like that. So he went to show him and he thought the gun was not loaded and he accidentally dropped the gun which unfortunately shot the guy in the face but he survived and he got fired and lost his security officer license from that mistake.
Announcement - Special message from GB - prepare for civil unrest
- Thread starter Jah-son
- Start date
BagdadBill
Well-known member
I was listening to Amazing Polly and she brought that up about the pointing toward homosexuals. At this stage I can't guess why unless it's to get people to let their guard down or just to distract from the injection damage.
BagdadBill
Well-known member
Years ago we visited family friends who moved to Montana. In Montana, even some of the sisters hunt and fish. We do what we can.
BARNABY THE DOG.
Well-known member
Jehovah does not protect physically? There must be dozens of examples in the bible, from being thrown into furnaces to Jesus walking through a crowd wanting to throw him off a cliff. The whole nation of Israel were helped across the sea…under it in fact! I agree that Jehovah is not ready to alter a chosen course of action, but I’m not sure it’s right to say that Jehovah does not help according to His purpose and moreso to those who cannot help themselves. I have probably misunderstood your point. Nice to have you with us. 👍
BARNABY THE DOG.
Well-known member
I have problems with a short attn…sp….
BagdadBill
Well-known member
In the end, it won’t be our hand that saves us. I don’t say that as a choice or statement regarding whether to try and provide some measure of self protection but, as far as self preservation, this is the tool that Satan is going to try and use against us. Fear of death. It will get real soon enough and every human alive will make their choice.
BARNABY THE DOG.
Well-known member
Every so often the Government in Britain join with the police in doing “amnesty” hand-in for guns and knives, and we see pictures of piles of guns and knives on display. It has never made any difference. Admittedly, here there are less guns to contend with so the yobs just use knives. As there is little, if any, anatomical insight amongst that group, there is a higher survival rate than if they had a gun. I really don’t think that governments can boast about disarming criminals when they have silos full of atomic bombs, but that’s political reasoning for you.
SusanB
Well-known member
First of all, I did not say nor imply that “taking action to ensure your own personal safety…means that you are being disloyal to Jehovah…”. What I said is there is a priority of importance between the two. It is Satan who says that we only serve Jehovah because of what he does for us and that if he protects us then looking for that protection from him is a reason to serve God rather than true love for him. So, I think most Christians feel as Jesus described at Matthew 10:28: “And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.” and what is recorded at 1 Peter 3:14: “14 But even if you should suffer for the sake of righteousness, you are happy. However, do not fear what they fear, nor be disturbed.” and 1 Peter 3:6: “just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord. And you have become her children, provided you continue doing good and do not give in to fear. “
So the primary concern above personal safety is to ask oneself if what we are doing brings honor to our Creator and does it reflect our faith. I cannot help but come to the conclusion of your comments that what you are saying is that if your life is in danger, then that justifies violence and/or Jehovah can only assist us in protecting ourselves and he will not do all the work of protecting us. I find that problematic and I think of Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah when they were in Babylon. As per Daniel chapter 1, Daniel resolved in his heart that he would not defile himself with the King’s delicacies. And, the other three were willing to stay faithful by not worshipping a false image even though they had no assurance that they would not be executed for that refusal. Daniel 3:17-18: “If it must be, our God whom we serve is able to rescue us from the burning fiery furnace, O king, and to rescue us from your hand. But even if he does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold that you have set up”. So, what the bible teaches us is that we determine what is right and correct from the viewpoint of our God, Jehovah as per his word and then we follow that guidance regardless of the cost to us, even possible (temporary) death. Certainly we each have to carry our own load and Jehovah wants us to do that, but we also want our conscience to be trained by what the bible actually says and not what we may wrongly extrapolate or assume. One important rule in studying the bible is to remember that it must harmonize otherwise we might be taking a scripture out of context or possibly twisting scripture to suit our own sense of righteousness. It is Jehovah’s righteousness that we pursue.
As I said, I do intend to fully address your comments on using violence as a means to protect yourself and I think you have made a logical argument, but not without holes in the reasoning. I just need a bit of time to put together my response but I will do that some time today.
LifeLearning
Well-known member
The first link you posted, and I followed, did not land anywhere, had me wondering what havoc was being introduced to my network/system. (i.e. I suspected this was a malicious attack and responded as such.)
I took a very brief speed read of the article referenced and it does look like someone went to a lot of effort on this.
Jehovah has the power to do his will. He can protect us completely. Yes, exactly according to his will not mine. I know without any doubt that God, both Jesus and Jehovah know my heart. I trust their honest judgment and decisions. From reasoning on the word of God in the bible I see no blood guilt in protecting myself and others from evil. In doing so I take some risk that a mistake might happen and it be on my head... It's a risk I take. If you drive a car, that also is a risk you take. It's not for everyone, and when it comes to 'swords', if you are not prepared to kill, you will almost certainly be killed if you pull it out and hesitate. (point is anyone who has weapons has to be 100% sure before it is time to use them) Is this living by the sword? I think NOT. This is defending against evil, similar to building a wall around the city to keep them out.
Driven made a comment above with reference to Matthew:
Matthew 10:28: “And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Ge·henʹna.”
I see this as two different scenarios of defense: one is an attack by marauders looking to loot, the other is an attack on our faith. If it is Gods will that we are taken before the king, as in Daniel, God has promised that he will be speaking for us. Now if I know that to be my calling I will not be packing a sword at all. And when I go into the synagogue calling out the error of their teaching, that is offensive (not defensive) and I need to turn the other cheek and take all they have got, to death.
On topic, "Prepare for Civil Unrest": Good advice. Store what you can, sharpen the swords and minds. But know that most of what is happening is theatrics meant to instill fear, and keep the masses compliant. When destruction comes we will know it, and we will have some things ready to aid in that time of calamity.
D
Dane500
Guest
Thanks BTD.
Yes, in the past Jehovah was active in human activity. But just as the gifts of prophecy and speaking in tongues ceased, so did direct spiritual contact. (1Co 13:8) That is what i was referring to. If there was spiritual interaction, that would be proof, and we would not be living by faith. (He 11:1)
Yeah, here in the states the highest crime rates (by far) are in the cities with the most gun control by the government.
The first link was actually a download link for the doc.
In doing so I take some risk that a mistake might happen and it be on my head.
That is exactly the reason behind Exodus 22:2, 3. The thief was not a threat, but if he was killed at night when the homeowner could not tell his intentions, the homeowner was not bloodguilty. It is like today, if a person pulls a toy gun on a police officer, and he shoots him, the officer is not bloodguilty because he thought he was in danger.
Is this living by the sword? I think NOT.
Absolutely correct. The NWT says "all those who take up the sword", not 'live by the sword' (Mt 26:52), and Jesus was referring to that moment when the apostles were about to use there swords to protect him from being taken. But his apostles were not hardened fighting men like the soldiers were, so all of them who chose to fight would definitely have been killed.
:^)
Dane
Jah-son
Well-known member
Hi Dave, welcome to the forum. I refrained from commenting on your initial posts because I got the sense that you were not dismissing the power or value of prayer but I wanted to see how you handled the backlash.
I wanted to back up your first point as this was one issue that prevented my ex wife from developing a close relationship with Jehovah. She could not rectify why Jehovah would allow his servants to suffer after they pray for help. You see, she was raised a JW by her mother and her father was terribly abusive. Used to beat his wife and her older brothers even though she and her mother fervently prayed for protection and relief. I really tried to help her reason on the matter but she could never rectify. Sadly, fundamental issues like this ended our marriage and her spirituality.
My point is, there is a balance and I tend to agree with you that Jehovah expects us to use our God given abilities (mental and physical) to avoid harm. I would say we should pray for protection and the wisdom to be able to protect ourselves, dicernment (good judgement) to avoid dangerous situations and the power to protect ourselves if the unexpected happens.
BillyRay
Well-known member
YouTube is full of Rambo idiots doing things like this. The gun is ALWAYS loaded. Period! The only time it’s not, is when it’s on the bench in pieces after it’s been disassembled. The second it’s reassembled - it’s immediately treated as loaded.
Notice the use of the word “mistake” in your post. Respectfully, there are no mistakes. That’s why they are called “”negligent discharges”. There are only two ways Gun “mistakes” happen. In fact, I could say the very same for…. Say…. Chainsaws. Either the person is untrained in its use. Or they suffered a lack of concentration and vigilance. There’s no checking out mentally around firearms (or chainsaws). None.
Really, it’s just a tool. That’s all it is. If you’re trained in it’s use, and follow the safety training, it’s as safe as any other tool. If I handed you a chainsaw - and you’ve never operated one before - it’s the very same thing.
D
Dane500
Guest
Dave? Who is this Dave you speak of? I am Dane. 🥸
She could not rectify why Jehovah would allow his servants to suffer after they pray for help.
I think that is another big problem with promoting the false belief that Jehovah protects us physically.
Of course He protects his people as a whole, and any individual that is needed to bring about His plans. (Isaiah 14:24; 48:3)
Jehovah expects us to use our God given abilities (mental and physical) to avoid harm.
The Rambles: "In God’s Image" and "Are You a Sheep?" touch on that topic, as does the firearms one of course.
:^)
Dane
Jah-son
Well-known member
Ah, yes....and don't forget the "h" in my handle. Wouldn't want anyone to confuse me with some guy named Jason or anything. You know them Jason's are shady characters...kinda like Dave's 😉😁Dave? Who is this Dave you speak of? I am Dane. 🥸
The God Pill
Well-known member
Jehovah does protect people physically he's simply not obligated to every time one asks so we shouldn't take it for granted. If I'm on the highway driving home and torrential rain starts at a level that there's a high chance I wouldn't make it home in one piece I simply pray and it stops in less than thirty seconds.
The God Pill
Well-known member
Bear in mind after Christ manifest and before the time for them to be martyred the genuine sealed annointed are going to operate with great spiritual power, protection and authority for the duration of there Revelation 11 ministry much as I stockpile gear, food, armor and weapons I'd feel more safe with my anointed mother (assuming she qualifies when christ comes) that could call fireballs 🔥 down from heaven than an army. Such earthly concerns as the above mentioned supplies is more for 1. Myself if/when occasions I'm on my own 2. assisting and/or protecting non anointed people that are followers of them during those years when we're in circumstances the chosen ones aren't in our proximity. All that said I have no doubt in Jehovah's ability to augment those of the other sheep and vast mixed company spiritually and physically look at Samson's feats or Elijah when he outran the chariot.
One thing I would say is I certainly wouldn't question Jehovah's judgement if he intervened for some people and not others or did for someone sometimes but not other occasions look at the early christians Stephen and the apostle James were taken out pretty early but Peter and Paul were protected some times though ultimately martyred while John lived well into old age.
One thing I would say is I certainly wouldn't question Jehovah's judgement if he intervened for some people and not others or did for someone sometimes but not other occasions look at the early christians Stephen and the apostle James were taken out pretty early but Peter and Paul were protected some times though ultimately martyred while John lived well into old age.
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BillyRay
Well-known member
Interesting comment. Let me ask... Would you agree that each human has been instilled with a natural instinct to live - a will to survive? In fact, do you see this very same instinct in animals? I submit that the fear of death is a natural part of our make-up.
Where the potential for downfall exists is whether that fear of death will motivate us to compromise our faith. When someone puts a gun to your head and says: "renounce Jehovah or die". Then, your faith will have to be stronger than your will to live, yes?
Is trying to protect ourselves a compromise of our faith? Is doing nothing - and dying because you refused to defend yourself or your family a compromise of our faith? Is it a waste of the gift of life? Is that needless? Is that wasteful? Is it virtually suicidal? I really don't know. My questions are genuine and I'm searching for answers. I certainly need to do more research and pray about the matter.
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SusanB
Well-known member
@Dane500
Dane wrote:
“include personal protective equipment"
Christ also promoted having "personal protective equipment". And what was that equipment he ordered his followers to have? A sword. The best form of personal protection available at the time.
(Luke 22:36) let the one who has no sword sell his outer garment and buy one.
My response: The first rule that I have in understanding scripture is that the bible harmonizes. If we find a particular scripture that doesn’t harmonize it is likely our understanding of it that isn’t correct. Jesus did say he protected his apostles but I think it’s obvious he didn’t use a weapon to protect them. The context of John 17:12 is a prayer by Jesus to Jehovah and he asks Jehovah to watch over them. He does not say that because he would be gone they needed to protect themselves. That is an extrapolation that I disagree with and I think the context of the prayer was their spirituality and their ability to carry on the preaching work that Jesus started and trained his disciples to do. This prayer at John 17 really has nothing to do with physically protecting themselves. Inserting that idea is taking verse 12 out of context. See John 18:6-9 which explains exactly how he protected them:
John 18:6-9: “However, when Jesus said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground. So he asked them again: “Whom are you looking for?” They said: “Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ.” Jesus answered: “I told you that I am he. So if you are looking for me, let these men go.” This was to fulfill what he had said: “Of those whom you have given me, I have not lost a single one”.
My response continued: Regarding Luke 22:36, it is true that Jesus said to buy a sword. What I don’t think is clear is exactly what he meant from that if this verse is taken solely on its own. Many believe he told them to buy a sword so that he could then teach the lesson in Matthew 26:52. I’m not sure I buy that explanation either, but if we take into account all of Jesus CLEARLY stated teachings here are some important ones that also were part of the refinement to Christianity and different from what the Jewish leaders taught and the Law allowed.
Matthew 5:43-48: “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
Dane wrote: (Mark 14:48) But in response Jesus said to them: “Did you come out to arrest me with swords and clubs as against a robber?
Jesus did not condemn the mob for having swords and clubs, but for intending to use them inappropriately against an innocent person. And how are swords and clubs appropriately used? Jesus tells us: "against a robber."
My response: To say that Jesus was promoting or giving allowance for swords clubs as being an appropriate way to deal with robbers, is in my opinion a twisting of scripture. It does not say that. Many times Jesus referred to things that the people were familiar with. He was simply pointing out how ridiculous and outrageous it was to treat him like a robber because he always conducted himself appropriately and was never a threat to anyone. We need to look at the point of the statement.
Dane wrote: Nowhere does the Bible condemn protecting oneself and ones loved ones. In fact, it requires it.
(Deuteronomy 22:8) “If you build a new house you must also make a parapet for your roof so that you may not bring bloodguilt on your house because of someone falling from it."
That verse refers to bloodguilt resulting from a failure to provide protection.
(1 Timothy 5:8) Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.
Safety, security, and protection are part of what the head of the house provides "for those who are his own." Otherwise he would be "worse than a person without faith."
If you choose NOT to provide protection for your household, and something happens to any of them, that is when you become bloodguilty, because you intentionally chose not to provide protection even though you are required to do so. (De 22:8; Lu 22:36) If we shirk this God-given duty we have "disowned the faith and [are] worse than a person without faith." (1 Tim 5:8) We will have earned that bloodguilt and may lose our place in paradise.
My response: The above statements imply that not buying a gun is to choose NOT to provide protection for your household and that statement is clearly hyperbole. There are many ways to protect the family. I don’t believe that a gun is required to do that. This is a false premise. And lets be quite clear. To kill a robber who merely wants to take your material goods does not align with the christian principles that Jesus taught. Material things are not worth anyone’s life. Now if you are saying that a criminal is attacking you or your family to do physical harm, then do as Jesus did on many occasions, flee. Remove yourself if you can and go to a place of safety. If you are unable then protect yourself in whatever way your christian conscience will allow and I have no doubt that we will all protect the children and vulnerable, even if it means risking and losing our own life. Jesus set the perfect example for that.
1 John 3:16: “By this we have come to know love, because that one surrendered his life for us, and we are under obligation to surrender our lives for our brothers.”
Dane wrote: The GB often quote this scripture to back up their opinion on this topic:
(Ecclesiastes 9:18) Wisdom is better than weapons of war
But that is only a partial quote. The whole verse says this:
(Ecclesiastes 9:18) Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but just one sinner can destroy much good.
Note the use of the word "better". The original Hebrew word "towbah" is translated in most other locations as "good". Here the scripture could literally be translated: "Wisdom is (more good) than weapons of war", showing that both options are considered to be good since both can be used for the cause of good. One is just better, or more good.
My response: Again, Christianity is a refinement to our worship as opposed to the Law. Jesus instituted teachings as I have noted above that the Jews did not like and another principle like the one Jesus taught in Matthew 5:4348 (see above) is found at Romans 12:17-21: “Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.’
My response continued: So Christianity teaches that we conquer evil with good not guns. That is difficult for many to accept and admittedly there may be times when we cannot get away without violence in some form. What I have an issue with is that by planning ahead for something that may never happen to us by buying a gun, becoming proficient in using it and buying ammo, just seems to me that perhaps we are not taking to heart some of the teachings of Christianity as set forth in God’s word. We all must make a conscience decision for ourselves and hopefully we pray for direction and read the bible for ourselves before making those kinds of decisions. Here are some scriptures that I value:
Romans 16:19: “Your obedience has come to the notice of all, and so I rejoice over you. But I want you to be wise as to what is good, but innocent as to what is evil.”
1 Thessalonians 5:15: “See that no one repays injury for injury to anyone, but always pursue what is good toward one another and to all others.”
1 Peter 3:9: “Do not pay back injury for injury or insult for insult. Instead, repay with a blessing, for you were called to this course, so that you might inherit a blessing.”
Dane wrote:
“include personal protective equipment"
Christ also promoted having "personal protective equipment". And what was that equipment he ordered his followers to have? A sword. The best form of personal protection available at the time.
(Luke 22:36) let the one who has no sword sell his outer garment and buy one.
My response: The first rule that I have in understanding scripture is that the bible harmonizes. If we find a particular scripture that doesn’t harmonize it is likely our understanding of it that isn’t correct. Jesus did say he protected his apostles but I think it’s obvious he didn’t use a weapon to protect them. The context of John 17:12 is a prayer by Jesus to Jehovah and he asks Jehovah to watch over them. He does not say that because he would be gone they needed to protect themselves. That is an extrapolation that I disagree with and I think the context of the prayer was their spirituality and their ability to carry on the preaching work that Jesus started and trained his disciples to do. This prayer at John 17 really has nothing to do with physically protecting themselves. Inserting that idea is taking verse 12 out of context. See John 18:6-9 which explains exactly how he protected them:
John 18:6-9: “However, when Jesus said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground. So he asked them again: “Whom are you looking for?” They said: “Jesus the Naz·a·reneʹ.” Jesus answered: “I told you that I am he. So if you are looking for me, let these men go.” This was to fulfill what he had said: “Of those whom you have given me, I have not lost a single one”.
My response continued: Regarding Luke 22:36, it is true that Jesus said to buy a sword. What I don’t think is clear is exactly what he meant from that if this verse is taken solely on its own. Many believe he told them to buy a sword so that he could then teach the lesson in Matthew 26:52. I’m not sure I buy that explanation either, but if we take into account all of Jesus CLEARLY stated teachings here are some important ones that also were part of the refinement to Christianity and different from what the Jewish leaders taught and the Law allowed.
Matthew 5:43-48: “You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
Dane wrote: (Mark 14:48) But in response Jesus said to them: “Did you come out to arrest me with swords and clubs as against a robber?
Jesus did not condemn the mob for having swords and clubs, but for intending to use them inappropriately against an innocent person. And how are swords and clubs appropriately used? Jesus tells us: "against a robber."
My response: To say that Jesus was promoting or giving allowance for swords clubs as being an appropriate way to deal with robbers, is in my opinion a twisting of scripture. It does not say that. Many times Jesus referred to things that the people were familiar with. He was simply pointing out how ridiculous and outrageous it was to treat him like a robber because he always conducted himself appropriately and was never a threat to anyone. We need to look at the point of the statement.
Dane wrote: Nowhere does the Bible condemn protecting oneself and ones loved ones. In fact, it requires it.
(Deuteronomy 22:8) “If you build a new house you must also make a parapet for your roof so that you may not bring bloodguilt on your house because of someone falling from it."
That verse refers to bloodguilt resulting from a failure to provide protection.
(1 Timothy 5:8) Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith.
Safety, security, and protection are part of what the head of the house provides "for those who are his own." Otherwise he would be "worse than a person without faith."
If you choose NOT to provide protection for your household, and something happens to any of them, that is when you become bloodguilty, because you intentionally chose not to provide protection even though you are required to do so. (De 22:8; Lu 22:36) If we shirk this God-given duty we have "disowned the faith and [are] worse than a person without faith." (1 Tim 5:8) We will have earned that bloodguilt and may lose our place in paradise.
My response: The above statements imply that not buying a gun is to choose NOT to provide protection for your household and that statement is clearly hyperbole. There are many ways to protect the family. I don’t believe that a gun is required to do that. This is a false premise. And lets be quite clear. To kill a robber who merely wants to take your material goods does not align with the christian principles that Jesus taught. Material things are not worth anyone’s life. Now if you are saying that a criminal is attacking you or your family to do physical harm, then do as Jesus did on many occasions, flee. Remove yourself if you can and go to a place of safety. If you are unable then protect yourself in whatever way your christian conscience will allow and I have no doubt that we will all protect the children and vulnerable, even if it means risking and losing our own life. Jesus set the perfect example for that.
1 John 3:16: “By this we have come to know love, because that one surrendered his life for us, and we are under obligation to surrender our lives for our brothers.”
Dane wrote: The GB often quote this scripture to back up their opinion on this topic:
(Ecclesiastes 9:18) Wisdom is better than weapons of war
But that is only a partial quote. The whole verse says this:
(Ecclesiastes 9:18) Wisdom is better than weapons of war, but just one sinner can destroy much good.
Note the use of the word "better". The original Hebrew word "towbah" is translated in most other locations as "good". Here the scripture could literally be translated: "Wisdom is (more good) than weapons of war", showing that both options are considered to be good since both can be used for the cause of good. One is just better, or more good.
My response: Again, Christianity is a refinement to our worship as opposed to the Law. Jesus instituted teachings as I have noted above that the Jews did not like and another principle like the one Jesus taught in Matthew 5:4348 (see above) is found at Romans 12:17-21: “Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of all men. If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath; for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.” But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.” Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.’
My response continued: So Christianity teaches that we conquer evil with good not guns. That is difficult for many to accept and admittedly there may be times when we cannot get away without violence in some form. What I have an issue with is that by planning ahead for something that may never happen to us by buying a gun, becoming proficient in using it and buying ammo, just seems to me that perhaps we are not taking to heart some of the teachings of Christianity as set forth in God’s word. We all must make a conscience decision for ourselves and hopefully we pray for direction and read the bible for ourselves before making those kinds of decisions. Here are some scriptures that I value:
Romans 16:19: “Your obedience has come to the notice of all, and so I rejoice over you. But I want you to be wise as to what is good, but innocent as to what is evil.”
1 Thessalonians 5:15: “See that no one repays injury for injury to anyone, but always pursue what is good toward one another and to all others.”
1 Peter 3:9: “Do not pay back injury for injury or insult for insult. Instead, repay with a blessing, for you were called to this course, so that you might inherit a blessing.”
D
Dane500
Guest
Most. if not all of the answers and rebuttals to your responses are covered in detail in the full document.
(I created a PDF of it so i could attach it here)
:^)
Dane
(I created a PDF of it so i could attach it here)
:^)
Dane
יהוה_saves
Well-known member
i hâve struggled with this myself. Is Jehovah an interventionist God? If so, where does his intervention meet and cross paths with the issue Satan raised before the entire assembly of angels?
@Driven i always though that Luke 22:36 was regarding protection against wild animals, not people. Anyway- I fall in line with your thinking on this issue.