EUROPE IMMINENT COLLAPSE

Cherry

Well-known member
@Cherry

Wouldn’t this power struggle happen to be between the KOTN and KOTS?
Obviously it is a fight between the king of the north and the south. However, events at the moment indicate to me that the role of the king of the south is being taken by the globalist elite (Anglo-American duo). So the role of the king of the north that is about to appear, will be taken by a patriotic coalition or alliance, along with the beast reborn (USA) and much stronger. It's just my perception. How do you see it?...
 

Cherry

Well-known member
Christ has to be here first No? ie; he has taken up his Kingship.
Well, I believe that Christ, although he has not yet appeared to claim our planet, evidently has all the authority in heaven and earth as he himself said. Matthew 28:18. So he is in control of things. Can you imagine that the Evil One had carte blanche to do and undo without anyone to control him? God save us!
 

Cherry

Well-known member
Then presently Satan's in control no?
What I have understood is that Satan has been granted a time to exercise his dominion over the Earth. But who sets and removes kings is God. So the Devil is in control up to the limit allowed by God. Do you see it differently? I would like you to share it with me.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
What I have understood is that Satan has been granted a time to exercise his dominion over the Earth. But who sets and removes kings is God. So the Devil is in control up to the limit allowed by God. Do you see it differently? I would like you to share it with me.

Before Christ takes control he must take up his Kingship. ( You are in agreement with that.) Therefore Christ does not begin to rule the world until he first kicks Satan and his hoods out of heaven. ( Are you confident that has happened? ) One of the next things to happen is the sword stroke on the seventh head of the beast ie ; the fall of the Anglo/American duo. ( are you confident that has happened? ) Satan is the ruler of the world until he is not. ( are you confident that he is not ? )
 

Cherry

Well-known member
Antes de que Cristo tome el control, debe asumir su reinado. (Usted está de acuerdo con eso.) Por lo tanto, Cristo no comienza a gobernar el mundo hasta que primero echa a Satanás y sus capuchas del cielo. (¿Estás seguro de que ha sucedido?) Una de las próximas cosas que sucederán es el golpe de espada en la séptima cabeza de la bestia, es decir; la caída del dúo anglo/estadounidense. (¿Estás seguro de que eso ha sucedido?) Satanás es el gobernante del mundo hasta que deja de serlo. (¿Estás seguro de que no lo es?)
Is Satan the ruler of this world? Yes. Has he already been kicked out of heaven? No.
Has Christ begun to rule? No.
Has God given all authority over heaven and earth to Christ? Yes. Matthew 28:18.
Is it God who removes and sets kings? Yes. Daniel 2:21
Does the Devil have absolute dominion over the Earth? No.
 
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DR74minus

Well-known member
Is Satan the ruler of this world? Yes. Has he already been kicked out of heaven? No.
Has Christ begun to rule? No.
Has God given all authority over heaven and earth to Christ? Yes. Matthew 28:18.
Is it God who removes and sets kings? Yes. Daniel 2:21
Does the Devil have absolute dominion over the Earth? No.

You've answered the question yourself. That Satan is the ruler of the world and is in control of it at present.
 

Cherry

Well-known member
You've answered the question yourself. That Satan is the ruler of the world and is in control of it at present.
I cannot see the Devil's control over the Earth, if it is not under God's permission, and God has given all authority over heaven and Earth to Christ. So the Devil wields his power on our planet, but not absolute power. If the Devil had absolute control over the Earth, no one would escape.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
I cannot see the Devil's control over the Earth, if it is not under God's permission, and God has given all authority over heaven and Earth to Christ. So the Devil wields his power on our planet, but not absolute power. If the Devil had absolute control over the Earth, no one would escape.

Jehovah will intervene at his own appointed time, no? Not when we think he should, that goes for Christ too.?
Recall that Jehovah gave Satan permission to test Job and by extension all humans. Jehovah has not taken that permission away as Jesus' murder testifies to, and the murder and persecutions to Jehovah's people over the centuries have shown also.
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
God does sets and removes the kings of the earth only when He intervenes to push with his will regarding the earth. Satan is the ruler of this earth and he sets the kings and removes them otherwise God will be responsible for all the evil they bring forth. This is Satan's purpose and has always been to bring defamation to Jehovah's name.

"And he led him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, To thee will I give all this authority, and the glory of them: for it hath been delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it."
Luke 4:5‭-‬6

Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

John 14:30
I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me;

Ephesians 2:2
In which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

John 16:11
and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

2 Corinthians 4:4
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

and they worshipped the dragon, because he gave his authority unto the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? and who is able to war with him?
Revelation 13:4

These have one mind, and they give their power and authority unto the beast.
Revelation 17:13

"that you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon, and say, “How the oppressor has ceased, And how the onslaught has ceased! “The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked, The scepter of rulers, Which used to strike the peoples in fury with unceasing strokes, Which subdued the nations in anger with unrestrained persecution. “The whole earth is at rest and is quiet; They break forth into shouts of joy. “Even the juniper trees rejoice over you, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, ‘Since you have been laid low, no tree cutter comes up against us.’ “Sheol below is excited about you, to meet you when you come; It stirs the spirits of the dead for you, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones. “They will all respond and say to you, ‘Even you have become weak as we, You have become like us. ‘Your pride and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.’ “How you have fallen from heaven, You star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who defeated the nations! “But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. “Those who see you will stare at you, They will closely examine you, saying, ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms, Who made the world like a wilderness And overthrew its cities, Who did not allow his prisoners to go home?’ “All the kings of the nations lie in glory, Each in his own tomb. “But you have been hurled out of your tomb Like a rejected branch, Clothed with those killed who have been pierced with a sword, Who go down to the stones of the pit Like a trampled corpse. “You will not be united with them in burial, Because you have ruined your country, You have killed your people. May the descendants of evildoers never be mentioned."
Isaiah 14:4‭-‬13‭, ‬16‭-‬20
 

SusanB

Well-known member
God does sets and removes the kings of the earth only when He intervenes to push with his will regarding the earth. Satan is the ruler of this earth and he sets the kings and removes them otherwise God will be responsible for all the evil they bring forth. This is Satan's purpose and has always been to bring defamation to Jehovah's name.

"And he led him up, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, To thee will I give all this authority, and the glory of them: for it hath been delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it."
Luke 4:5‭-‬6

Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

John 14:30
I will not speak much more with you, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has nothing in Me;

Ephesians 2:2
In which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

John 16:11
and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

2 Corinthians 4:4
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

and they worshipped the dragon, because he gave his authority unto the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? and who is able to war with him?
Revelation 13:4

These have one mind, and they give their power and authority unto the beast.
Revelation 17:13

"that you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon, and say, “How the oppressor has ceased, And how the onslaught has ceased! “The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked, The scepter of rulers, Which used to strike the peoples in fury with unceasing strokes, Which subdued the nations in anger with unrestrained persecution. “The whole earth is at rest and is quiet; They break forth into shouts of joy. “Even the juniper trees rejoice over you, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, ‘Since you have been laid low, no tree cutter comes up against us.’ “Sheol below is excited about you, to meet you when you come; It stirs the spirits of the dead for you, all the leaders of the earth; It raises all the kings of the nations from their thrones. “They will all respond and say to you, ‘Even you have become weak as we, You have become like us. ‘Your pride and the music of your harps Have been brought down to Sheol; Maggots are spread out as your bed beneath you And worms are your covering.’ “How you have fallen from heaven, You star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who defeated the nations! “But you said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. “Those who see you will stare at you, They will closely examine you, saying, ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms, Who made the world like a wilderness And overthrew its cities, Who did not allow his prisoners to go home?’ “All the kings of the nations lie in glory, Each in his own tomb. “But you have been hurled out of your tomb Like a rejected branch, Clothed with those killed who have been pierced with a sword, Who go down to the stones of the pit Like a trampled corpse. “You will not be united with them in burial, Because you have ruined your country, You have killed your people. May the descendants of evildoers never be mentioned."
Isaiah 14:4‭-‬13‭, ‬16‭-‬20
Just to expand on this comment. In my opinion it isn’t as important as to who the puppet is, the patriots or the globalists, but who the puppeteer is or the one pulling the strings. Because regardless of the puppet he uses the intent is to challenge the faith of each human as Satan did with Job when he said at Job 2:2: “But Satan answered Jehovah: “Skin for skin. A man will give everything that he has for his life.

This is how Satan will accuse every human on earth by forcing the mark of the beast. Just as Job did not understand everything going on in the spirit realm or even how his life would turn out, he knew enough about his God to remain faithful. We can do the same by building ourselves up now for this coming test. Satan’s statement is a slander against every faithful human but also against our Creator. This will be our opportunity to give a “witness” that Jehovah has humans who truly love him and have complete faith in him.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
I cannot see the Devil's control over the Earth, if it is not under God's permission, and God has given all authority over heaven and Earth to Christ. So the Devil wields his power on our planet, but not absolute power. If the Devil had absolute control over the Earth, no one would escape.

Just one more leading question if you don't mind? Are you part of the world, or should you be part of the world?
 

Cherry

Well-known member
Jehovah will intervene at his own appointed time, no? Not when we think he should, that goes for Christ too.?
Recall that Jehovah gave Satan permission to test Job and by extension all humans. Jehovah has not taken that permission away as Jesus' murder testifies to, and the murder and persecutions to Jehovah's people over the centuries have shown also.
Certain. But God has not given the Devil a blank check. An example is that of Job. God put the limit on him not touching his life.

Jesus asked the Father to watch over his disciples because of the Evil One. John 17:15. That is why God is not going to allow the Devil to have absolute control of everything that happens on Earth.

If so, God would have to give up being the Almighty. It's one thing for him to allow her to dominate to a certain extent, and another for him to do whatever she wants.

The prophecies have to be fulfilled. If the Devil ruled as he pleased, we can be sure that he would modify events so that the fulfillment of the prophecies would fail.

Remember, "no one would be saved, but because of the chosen ones the days will be shortened." Who is in control then?... It's obvious right?
 

Cherry

Well-known member
Dios pone y quita a los reyes de la tierra solo cuando interviene para empujar con su voluntad con respecto a la tierra. Satanás es el gobernante de esta tierra y él pone a los reyes y los quita, de lo contrario, Dios será responsable de todo el mal que traen. Este es el propósito de Satanás y siempre ha sido traer difamación al nombre de Jehová.

"Y le hizo subir, y le mostró todos los reinos del mundo en un momento de tiempo. Y el diablo le dijo: A ti te daré toda esta potestad, y la gloria de ellos; porque ha sido entregada a mí; y a quien quiero, se la doy".
Lucas 4:5-6

Ahora el juicio es sobre este mundo; ahora el gobernante de este mundo será echado fuera.

Juan 14:30
No hablaré mucho más con vosotros, porque viene el gobernante del mundo, y él nada tiene en Mí;

Efesios 2:2
In which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.

John 16:11
and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

2 Corinthians 4:4
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

and they worshipped the dragon, because he gave his authority unto the beast; and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? and who is able to war with him?
Revelation 13:4

These have one mind, and they give their power and authority unto the beast.
Revelation 17:13

"Que tomarás esta burla contra el rey de Babilonia, y dirás: "¡Cómo ha cesado el opresor, y cómo ha cesado el ataque! El Señor ha quebrado el bastón de los impíos, el cetro de los gobernantes, que solía golpead con furor a los pueblos con golpes incesantes, que subyugaron con ira a las naciones con persecución desenfrenada. Toda la tierra está en reposo y en quietud; prorrumpen en gritos de júbilo. Hasta los enebros se regocijan por vosotros, y los cedros del Líbano, diciendo: "Desde que has sido derribado, ningún cortador de árboles sube contra nosotros". El Seol de abajo se alborota por ti, para recibirte cuando vengas; remueve por ti los espíritus de los muertos, todos los príncipes de la tierra; levanta de sus tronos a todos los reyes de las naciones. Todos ellos responderán y deciros: 'Aun vosotros os habéis hecho débiles como nosotros, os habéis vuelto como nosotros. Tu orgullo y la música de tus arpas han sido derribados al Seol; Los gusanos se extienden como tu cama debajo de ti y los gusanos son tu cobertura.' “¡Cómo caíste del cielo, lucero de la mañana, hijo de la aurora! ¡Has sido cortado por tierra, Tú que derrotaste a las naciones! “Pero tú dijiste en tu corazón: 'Subiré al cielo; Levantaré mi trono sobre las estrellas de Dios, Y me sentaré en el monte de la asamblea En las profundidades del norte. “Aquellos que te vean te mirarán fijamente, te examinarán de cerca, diciendo: '¿Es este el hombre que hizo temblar la tierra, que sacudió los reinos, que puso el mundo como un desierto y asoló sus ciudades, que no permitió que su presos para ir a casa?' “Todos los reyes de las naciones yacen con gloria, Cada uno en su sepulcro. “Pero tú has sido arrojado de tu tumba como una rama desechada, vestidos de muertos traspasados a espada, que descienden a las piedras de la fosa como cadáver pisoteado. “No te unirás a ellos en el entierro, porque has arruinado a tu país, has matado a tu pueblo. Que nunca se mencione a los descendientes de los malhechores".
Isaías 14:4-13, 16-20
Certain. So if God is intervening to accomplish his purpose, he means the Devil has no absolute power.

At times God has used empires to execute his judgments. In fact, he called Cyrus his anointed one. Isaiah 45:1. This makes it clear that God has not left the Devil all control.

That does not mean that God is the cause of what happens on Earth. On the contrary, he limits the Devil precisely so that he does not finish off even the chosen ones.

Finally, after 42 months, the chosen ones themselves will be tested to the end, as Christ was to death.

But just as God took care of the details of his death—for example, his bones were not broken like other criminals—he will also take care of the elect and the great crowd in detail.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
I don't know where you are going but... didn't Jesus say that his disciples were NOT part of the world?... I am a disciple of Christ. Does that answer your question?

As far as it depends upon you and you are not part of the world? Then Satan has no control of you. He only has control of the world. Sure Jehovah did not give Satan a blank check, that does not mean that Satan is not in control of the world. The no blank check ensures that Satan cannot destroy the planet and all life on it. But it does not limit his total control of the world at present. You are not the world, and Satan has no control of you. I cannot make it any clearer than that?
 
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