Helping a Witness that wants to throw in the towel.

[Prodigal One]

Hello Everyone.
This is my first post on this Forum. I have been following eWatchman since the start.
I came into the Truth as a worldly 17 year old and stayed until I was 30.
I still had faith in Jehovah but just couldn’t carry on in the Org.

I have a friend who messaged me tonight, who is currently an active Witness, but has reached breaking point and wants to leave.

I am treading cautiously but I am trying to get him to realise that loosing respect for the Org, does not necessarily mean one has to stop believing in Jehovah - I’ve used the example of the Jesus prophesy of the “Evil Slave” to help him see that it was actually to be expected and that “the love of the greater number will cool off”

I also told him that I am have been involved with an online community of current and ex Witnesses, who do just that - maintain Faith in Jehovah whilst acknowledging the reality of negative experiences within the Org.

He expressed interest and would like to have a link to e-Watchman, which I will do.

My question is.
What other examples or reasoning would you recommend I share with my friend?
I feel he is just like us trying to make the circle square?

Much appreciated

 

[Medi-tator]

Hi Prodigal One,

I think once your friend logs onto e-Watchman and takes a look around, the content there will satisfy your request for "other examples or reasoning" quite amazingly. Maybe just escort him around the site a bit and see what piques his interest. Strong work on your part for helping your friend in his time of need!

 

[SusanB]

I will say that the “clincher“ for me is reading Robert’s book, Jehovah Has Become King, a primer for the Apocalypse.

 

[SollaSollew]

Have to agree with Meditator, it's like the old saying "you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink". Looks like this horse wants a drink.

 

[יהוה_saves]

Hello Everyone.
This is my first post on this Forum. I have been following eWatchman since the start.
I came into the Truth as a worldly 17 year old and stayed until I was 30.
I still had faith in Jehovah but just couldn’t carry on in the Org.

I have a friend who messaged me tonight, who is currently an active Witness, but has reached breaking point and wants to leave.

I am treading cautiously but I am trying to get him to realise that loosing respect for the Org, does not necessarily mean one has to stop believing in Jehovah - I’ve used the example of the Jesus prophesy of the “Evil Slave” to help him see that it was actually to be expected and that “the love of the greater number will cool off”

I also told him that I am have been involved with an online community of current and ex Witnesses, who do just that - maintain Faith in Jehovah whilst acknowledging the reality of negative experiences within the Org.

He expressed interest and would like to have a link to e-Watchman, which I will do.

My question is.
What other examples or reasoning would you recommend I share with my friend?
I feel he is just like us trying to make the circle square?

Much appreciated

wow, i’m happy to hear he wants to liberate himself from the 1914 error.

if he expressed interest in having the link to e-watchman, my advice would be to give it to him. He can read more than enough essays that not just explain the error of Watchtower’s exegesis, but explains the actual prophetic meanings of such prophecies.

I don’t perceive that anyone here is trying to circle the square. IMO, everything makes perfect sense, the facts square with the bible just fine. But leaving Watchtower is def no walk in the park, is it (because of its shunning policy).

 

[a watcher]

Make sure he knows about Robert Kings' YouTube channel too.

 

[Maskita]

I don't blame your friend for feeling the way he does. At some point people have to realize that Jehovah is bigger than organized religion. Regardless if he stays or drops out, the road ahead is not going to be an easy one. The Watchtower got us all here. Without them we would not know the truth. But the truth is infinitely more than God's modern people appreciate. Being a JW, spreading the truth, learning and growing in faith, these are all necessary things that got us to a point in our development. But building trust is essential. We need to trust Jehovah to finish our training. He won't let us down. This forum itself has been a tremendous blessing, but even this provision won't last forever. We will all eventually be separated again. Then we truly will be on our own. At that point we will be forced to rely solely on Jehovah to guide us. None of this is new, though. People had to do this numerous times throughout history. Going at it alone is no joke. It's challenging because it takes a level of faith most of us do not have on our own. Only with Jehovah's help can we reach the next stage of our development.

 

[SusanB]

I don't blame your friend for feeling the way he does. At some point people have to realize that Jehovah is bigger than organized religion. Regardless if he stays or drops out, the road ahead is not going to be an easy one. The Watchtower got us all here. Without them we would not know the truth. But the truth is infinitely more than God's modern people appreciate. Being a JW, spreading the truth, learning and growing in faith, these are all necessary things that got us to a point in our development. But building trust is essential. We need to trust Jehovah to finish our training. He won't let us down. This forum itself has been a tremendous blessing, but even this provision won't last forever. We will all eventually be separated again. Then we truly will be on our own. At that point we will be forced to rely solely on Jehovah to guide us. None of this is new, though. People had to do this numerous times throughout history. Going at it alone is no joke. It's challenging because it takes a level of faith most of us do not have on our own. Only with Jehovah's help can we reach the next stage of our development.

Yeah! What you said.

 

[PJ54]

Perhaps after having him checking out the YouTube channel, have him check out the site & come here after it so if there's something he needs to get off his chest the friends here can help.

 

[Cristo]

What other examples or reasoning would you recommend I share with my friend?

Prodigal, truth is always the most powerful influencer when it comes to making a strong case because it is the ONLY thing that can expose a lie.

Simply provide a truth that contradicts what the Watchtower teaches. 1914 is a doozie of a lie, and is very easy to repudiate once the truth from the scriptures is seen. Here is a great example you can show him straight from a Watchtower, dated April 1, 1990, and is still the current teaching.

*** w90 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

Q: When did the seven angelic trumpet blasts of Revelation begin to sound?

“…The final three trumpet blasts involve “woes.” (Revelation 8:13) They are different from the first four trumpet blasts in that they relate to specific events. The fifth trumpet blast is related to the release in 1919 of God’s people from “the abyss.” The sixth has to do with the “cavalry” and the massive international preaching campaign that began in 1922. The seventh is linked to the birth of God’s Kingdom in 1914.”

***

The Watchtower teaches that Gods Kingdom began in 1914, which is linked to the last trumpet blast, the seventh one. Revelation 11:15 is the scripture which refers to the last trumpet being blown. Not only is it the last trumpet that is blown in the series, but this scripture is the last place a trumpet is mentioned in the Bible, making it literally the "last trumpet" either way you look at it.

You can find the following three verses which describes the seventh, or last trumpet blast. These scriptures relate how the last trumpet is used to initiate the event of gathering the chosen ones/anointed to heaven, thus ensuing the birth of Gods Kingdom.(Rev 10:7, 11:15)

(1Co 15:52) . . .in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we shall be changed. . .

(1Th 4:16) . . .because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. . .

(Mt 24:31) . . .And he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.

Here is where the truth of the Bible smashes the lie of 1914.

(Mt 24:29-31) 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days ... he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.”

The last trumpet is not blown until AFTER the great tribulation, it's clear as day, right from the source.

The Watchtower quoted above states it blew in 1914. It also states the 5th trumpet blew in 1919, and the sixth blew in 1922. Of course this means as well that in the Watchtowers current understanding the 7th, and last trumpet blast which supposedly sounded in 1914, isn't the "last" trumpet, but actually the sixth trumpet which blew in 1922 would be the "last" trumpet. How convoluted is that? Their teaching actually has the last three trumpets blowing in reverse order.

Anyways, hope that helps. He'll either see it, or he won't. Belief bias is very powerful, and often it takes twice as much truth to repudiate the single lie.

 

[SusanB]

Prodigal, truth is always the most powerful influencer when it comes to making a strong case because it is the ONLY thing that can expose a lie.

Simply provide a truth that contradicts what the Watchtower teaches. 1914 is a doozie of a lie, and is very easy to repudiate once the truth from the scriptures is seen. Here is a great example you can show him straight from a Watchtower, dated April 4, 1990, and is still the current teaching.




***

The Watchtower teaches that Gods Kingdom began in 1914, which is linked to the last trumpet blast, the seventh one. Revelation 11:15 is the scripture which refers to the last trumpet being blown. Not only is it the last trumpet that is blown in the series, but this scripture is the last place a trumpet is mentioned in the Bible, making it literally the "last trumpet" either way you look at it.

You can find the following three verses which describes the seventh, or last trumpet blast. These scriptures relate how the last trumpet is used to initiate the event of gathering the chosen ones/anointed to heaven, thus ensuing the birth of Gods Kingdom.(Rev 10:7, 11:15)




Here is where the truth of the Bible smashes the lie of 1914.

(Mt 24:29-31) 29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days ... he will send forth his angels with a great trumpet sound, and they will gather his chosen ones together from the four winds, from one extremity of the heavens to their other extremity.”

The last trumpet is not blown until AFTER the great tribulation, it's clear as day, right from the source.

The Watchtower quoted above states it blew in 1914. It also states the 5th trumpet blew in 1919, and the sixth blew in 1922. Of course this means as well that in the Watchtowers current understanding the 7th, and last trumpet blast which supposedly sounded in 1914, isn't the "last" trumpet, but actually the sixth trumpet which blew in 1922 would be the "last" trumpet. How convoluted is that? Their teaching actually has the last three trumpets blowing in reverse order.

Anyways, hope that helps. He'll either see it, or he won't. Belief bias is very powerful, and often it takes twice as much truth to repudiate the single lie.

Thank you for making that clear. It is helping me with my new understanding. You‘re awesome Brother Cristo!

 

[Medi-tator]

Simply provide a truth that contradicts what the Watchtower teaches. 1914 is a doozie of a lie, and is very easy to repudiate once the truth from the scriptures is seen. Here is a great example you can show him straight from a Watchtower, dated April 4, 1990, and is still the current teaching.

Cristo, you provided me and Driven this exact info when Driven asked for advice from everyone here a couple weeks ago (maybe less) regarding the letter she was going to write to our local elder body. I really enjoyed this info from you then and am enjoying it again now. Great job bro and thank you again!!

 

[Cristo]

Yeah that’s my goto simply for the fact that it is so powerful when a person has believed in 1914 for so long. It’s kinda like wait…. what???? That can’t be right. And yet once you see it for what it is…and how simple it is to see once you see it, which the truth always is, it can really help those looking for answers about the lie that is 1914 and help them accept that the JWs may not have ALL the answers they claim to. Appreciate your kind words…

 

[MuleJule]

I am going through something similar to your friend. I am still active and have not decided to leave the org. BUT I am too disturbed by what is happening to just ignore it anymore. I respect and appreciate most of what I learned throughout my life in the org. and it has benefitted me in many ways. I also know for a fact that many humble precious brothers and sisters are genuinely doing their best to worship and please Jehovah every day inside the org. I don't want to abandon them. For now I am quietly attending meetings, turning in my time, but also absorbing all this amazing, eye-opening information from Robert King, Beroean Pickets and other select sources. This forum will help tremendously with finding his way. I don't feel like I am abandoning Jehovah, because I'm not. I am deepening & expanding my understanding and my love for him.

 

[SusanB]

I am going through something similar to your friend. I am still active and have not decided to leave the org. BUT I am too disturbed by what is happening to just ignore it anymore. I respect and appreciate most of what I learned throughout my life in the org. and it has benefitted me in many ways. I also know for a fact that many humble precious brothers and sisters are genuinely doing their best to worship and please Jehovah every day inside the org. I don't want to abandon them. For now I am quietly attending meetings, turning in my time, but also absorbing all this amazing, eye-opening information from Robert King, Beroean Pickets and other select sources. This forum will help tremendously with finding his way. I don't feel like I am abandoning Jehovah, because I'm not. I am deepening & expanding my understanding and my love for him.

Just like Jesus did in attending the synagogue. He still went there and read the scrolls. The nation of Israel wasn’t divorced until his death.

 

[Biblebug]

Just like Jesus did in attending the synagogue. He still went there and read the scrolls. The nation of Israel wasn’t divorced until his death.

Yes Jesus has died for us. We dont go to a literal temple to worship God, 'not in this mountain or in Jerusalem' (I will add, Or any organization. My opinion.) If the GB is His FDS we should wait on Him (Jesus). If they are not, then dont admit that to the congregation because they (most, many) will no longer view you as a sister. IMHO

 

[MuleJule]

Yes Jesus has died for us. We dont go to a literal temple to worship God, 'not in this mountain or in Jerusalem' (I will add, Or any organization. My opinion.) If the GB is His FDS we should wait on Him (Jesus). If they are not, then dont admit that to the congregation because they (most, many) will no longer view you as a sister. IMHO

I see what you're saying, but also are we not told to gather together (Heb. 10:25). I personally tend to be a recluse and introvert, but I appreciate the spiritual and emotional benefits of being together to build up and strengthen one another. Do you think we can do all that just via online forums? I am still heavily conditioned. You can't undo 40 years of programming in a few months. lol

 

[Biblebug]

"You can't undo 40 years of programming in a few months."
That's up to you. Do you trust in Jesus? I'm sure you do and I'm not suggesting anybody leave the org (I think Robert does? I have!) As far as meeting together, that presupposes that you have someone exceptable to meet with does it not. If meeting with 'brothers who would throw you out if they new how you felt meets Paul admonition and is exceptable then keep going. As for me I'm happy to meet with you here. There is no point in any of us panicking Jesus will look after us. IMHO

 

[SusanB]

Yes Jesus has died for us. We dont go to a literal temple to worship God, 'not in this mountain or in Jerusalem' (I will add, Or any organization. My opinion.) If the GB is His FDS we should wait on Him (Jesus). If they are not, then dont admit that to the congregation because they (most, many) will no longer view you as a sister. IMHO

People who deceive others could not be the FDS. They could be the evil slave. But it is up to Jesus when he comes to tell us who the FDS really is that is why we see that preceded by the question: “Who really is the faithful….?” I’m not trying to win anyone to this point of view but I also cannot back down and if it comes up, I must tell the truth. I’m not going to lie or pretend that they didn’t make videos intended to deceive the sheep into getting an experimental vaccine. That is what happened and they have made themselves the evil slave because of what they did. Gullible friends have suffered injured, disability and death. Sorry, I will never be hushed up but I don’t need to advertise it either. Truths should be stated plainly and firmly at appropriate times. What the brothers do and don’t do is on their conscience. Each of each will render an account for himself to God.

 

[SusanB]

I see what you're saying, but also are we not told to gather together (Heb. 10:25). I personally tend to be a recluse and introvert, but I appreciate the spiritual and emotional benefits of being together to build up and strengthen one another. Do you think we can do all that just via online forums? I am still heavily conditioned. You can't undo 40 years of programming in a few months. lol

I appreciate what you are saying but in my area the friends are still banned from the KHs. So, that isn’t an option anyway. If and when that happens, I‘ll make my decision on whether or not to attend, but I will never get vaccinated and it appears that when they open the KHs they will require vaccination and face coverings. It appears to be a decision that is out of my control, at least for now. But I agree that the preferred way to meet is in person. It isn’t good to isolate ourselves as Proverbs states.