May 17 2022 the Great Tribulation

PJ54

Well-known member
*** Text for Tuesday, May 17, 2022 ***
All those desiring to live with godly devotion in association with Christ Jesus will also be persecuted.—2 Tim. 3:12.
Satan has “great anger,” and we would be fooling ourselves if we were to imagine that we could somehow avoid his wrath. (Rev. 12:12) In the near future, all of us will face tests of our integrity. Soon, the world will experience “great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now.” (Matt. 24:21) During that time, family members may turn against us and our work may be banned. (Matt. 10:35, 36) Will we personally, like King Asa, trust in Jehovah for help and protection? (2 Chron. 14:11) Jehovah has been preparing us spiritually for what lies ahead. He is guiding “the faithful and discreet slave” to provide nourishing spiritual “food at the proper time” to help us remain steadfast in our worship. (Matt. 24:45) But we must do our part and build unshakable faith in Jehovah.—Heb. 10:38, 39. w20.09 18 ¶16-18

Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Great Tribulation​

Wednesday, January 27 2016​

There will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again.—Matt. 24:21.
Regarding his invisible presence and the conclusion of the system of things, Jesus said the above. This unparalleled tribulation will start when Jehovah brings destruction on “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion, by using the political powers. What will come next? After false religion is destroyed, Satan and various elements of his world will attack Jehovah’s servants. Concerning “Gog of the land of Magog,” for example, the Scriptures foretell: “You will come against them like a storm, and you will cover the land like clouds, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.” Because Jehovah’s Witnesses have no armed forces and are the most peaceful people on earth, they will appear to be easy targets. But what a mistake attacking them will prove to be!

COMMENTARY​

There will be a great tribulation —the likes of which has never occurred before or ever occur again. That much is certain.
But does it start with the destruction of Babylon the Great? Why not read the supporting verse cited in the text? Better yet, read the context in its entirety. If you do you will not find so much as one hint that the destruction of the harlot of Babylon initiates the start of the tribulation.
So why does the Watchtower insist that it does without any scriptural support?
The reason has to do with what Jesus said regarding the great tribulation.

According to Christ the desolation of Jerusalem commences the tribulation and it will directly impact Christians. Here is what is stated in the 24th chapter of Matthew: “Therefore, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken about by Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains. Let the man on the housetop not come down to take the goods out of his house, and let the man in the field not return to pick up his outer garment. Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! Keep praying that your flight may not occur in wintertime nor on the Sabbath day; for then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.”

Obviously Jesus was speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem, which occurred in 70 C.E. But equally obvious is the fact that the fall of Jerusalem was a very localized event and could hardly be described as a global disaster.

Jerusalem was, after all, the birthplace of Christianity. It was the unofficial headquarters of the apostles. Contrary to the Watchtower’s teaching on the topic, Jewish Christians did not consider the temple to be unholy. They regularly preached in the temple courtyard.
Paul, the apostle to the nations who fought untiringly against the Judaizers, himself trekked to the temple and made a sacrificial offering to quell the rumors that he was preaching an apostasy from Moses. (Acts 21) Surely, if Paul had considered the temple to be an unholy place he would have never compromised by going there.

In fact, one of the primary reasons Paul wrote his letter to the Hebrews was to help them appreciate that the law had served its intended purpose and that Christians should not be attached to earthly Jerusalem. Writing in the 13th chapter Paul was preparing the brothers to flee from Jerusalem in obedience to Jesus, where he stated: “Therefore, Jesus also suffered outside the city gate in order to sanctify the people with his own blood. Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the reproach he bore, for we do not have here a city that remains, but we are earnestly seeking the one to come.”

Since Jesus’ prophecy of the desolation of Jerusalem has a parallel during the conclusion, what is it? What does Jerusalem represent? According to the Watchtower Jerusalem symbolizes all the churches of Christendom. Their reasoning is because the Jews had for the most part rejected Christ and had already been rejected by Jehovah. But as has already been considered, the Jewish Christians prior to 70 C.E. did not regard the Jewish temple as something unholy.

Besides, if Jerusalem is intended to represent Christendom why would it be vital for Christians to flee out of it without delay when the disgusting thing appears?

If we are to understand Jesus’ warning it is vital to consider the prophecy of Daniel, and as Jesus advised: “Let the reader use discernment.”
The eighth chapter of Daniel uses the very same phraseology as Jesus when he spoke of the desolation of the holy place and the trampling of Jerusalem by the nations for an appointed time. Daniel 8:13-14 states: “‘How long will the vision of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation continue, to make both the holy place and the army things to trample on?’ So he said to me: ‘Until 2,300 evenings and mornings; and the holy place will certainly be restored to its right condition.’”

In explanation of this passage the Watchtower has published what can only be considered gobbledygook. Here, read it for yourself:
For “the holy place” to be “brought,” or restored, to what it should be, the 2,300 days must have begun when it previously was in the “right condition” from God’s standpoint. At the earliest, this was on June 1, 1938, when The Watchtower published part 1 of the article “Organization.” Part 2 appeared in the issue of June 15, 1938. Counting 2,300 days (6 years, 4 months, and 20 days on the Hebrew calendar) from June 1 or 15, 1938, brings us to October 8 or 22, 1944. On the first day of a special assembly held at Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, U.S.A., on September 30 and October 1, 1944, the Watch Tower Society’s president spoke on the subject “The Theocratic Alignment Today.” At the annual corporate meeting on October 2, the Society’s charter was amended in an effort to bring it as close to a theocratic arrangement as the law would allow. With the publication of clarified Biblical requirements, theocratic organization was soon more fully installed in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
In spite of their nonsensical explanation, contrary to the Watchtower’s insistence that the desolation of the holy place about which Jesus spoke concerns Christendom, in the very passage in Daniel, to which Jesus evidently referenced as the basis for his prophecy, the Watchtower applies it to itself, albeit to the receding past.

Could the leadership of Jehovah’s Witnesses be any more un-discerning?
 
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PJ54

Well-known member

A Great Tribulation​


Wednesday, May 4 2016​

We must enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations.—Acts 14:22.
Does it shock you that you can expect to face “many tribulations” before you gain the prize of everlasting life? Likely not. Whether you are new in the truth or you are a longtime servant of Jehovah, you know that hardship is an aspect of life in Satan’s world. Besides difficulties that are “common to men”—problems that affect all imperfect humans—Christians face an additional type of tribulation. What is it? Intense opposition because of their steadfast obedience to God’s laws. Jesus told his followers: “A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you.” Who is behind such opposition? Ultimately, it is Satan, whom the Bible describes as “a roaring lion” who is “seeking to devour” God’s people. Satan will use any means he can to try to break the integrity of Jesus’ disciples.

COMMENTARY​

The Western world has enjoyed a prolonged period of relative peace and prosperity. Very few among the present generation were alive during the Great Depression and the Nazi Holocaust.

We can certainly thank Jehovah that the world has not been wracked with continual war. Unfortunately, that is all about the change. The nations are preparing for an inevitable third world war. The London/Wall Street financial system is in a terminal phase and a new system is emerging in the form of the BRICS. There is no way the Anglo lords will relinquish their power. They will blow the world up before they allow the Russians and Chinese to become the dominant players. Of course, behind the scenes it is the demons who refuse to go quietly into the night.

The coming tumult will far exceed the horrors of the previous global conflicts —bringing mankind face-to-face with extinction, in what Jesus referred to as a great tribulation. According to Jesus unless those days were cut short no flesh would be saved.

Just as the tribulation that came upon Jerusalem in 70 C.E. brought an end to the temple-centered Jewish system, the great tribulation that Jesus said would come upon the entire world will bring an end to the Watchtower.

From the ashes will arise a new heavens and a new earth and those who are granted entry into them will sing to Jehovah and Christ a new song.
 
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PJ54

Well-known member

Entering the Kingdom thru Great Tribulation​


Friday, July 8 2016​

They strengthened the disciples, encouraging them to remain in the faith and saying: “We must enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations.”—Acts 14:22.
At first, that statement might seem strange. After all, the prospect of going through “many tribulations” would seem distressing, not encouraging. How is it, then, that Paul and Barnabas “strengthened the disciples” with a message that pointed to more tribulation? We can find the answer if we look carefully at Paul’s words. He did not simply say: “We must endure many tribulations.” Rather, he said: “We must enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations.” So Paul strengthened the disciples by emphasizing the positive result of a faithful course. That reward was no mere illusion. Indeed, Jesus stated: “The one who has endured to the end will be saved.” If we endure, we will have a reward. As Paul noted, though, we will face many tribulations in the meantime.

COMMENTARY​

Knowing the issues at stake is vital. Since God is a loving heavenly Father who blesses and protects his children, he must have a good reason for allowing us to be persecuted and go through many tribulations. And, of course, he does. As we know it has to do with the Devil’s slanderous contention that no one will be true to God if they are pressured or threatened with death.

Jesus was the focal point of the controversy. That is why the holy spirit led the newly anointed Christ into the wilderness to be tempted by the Devil. And it is why Jehovah ultimately allowed Satan to inflict the most torturous death imaginable upon his son. As followers of Christ we are obligated to follow his course, and if persecution and or even death comes as a result — so be it. It is a privilege to be able to weigh in on the issue, so to speak.

Paul certainly suffered many things for the sake of Christ. Probably no one has suffered as much as he. As a counter to the baseless accusations of the “superfine apostles” in the 11th chapter of 2 Corinthians Paul said that he “suffered countless beatings, and experienced many near-deaths. Five times I received 40 strokes less one from the Jews, three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I experienced shipwreck, a night and a day I have spent in the open sea; in journeys often, in dangers from rivers, in dangers from robbers, in dangers from my own people, in dangers from the nations, in dangers in the city, in dangers in the wilderness, in dangers at sea, in dangers among false brothers, in labor and toil, in sleepless nights often, in hunger and thirst, frequently without food, in cold and lacking clothing.”

Paul could speak with authority —it is only through many tribulations that we must enter the Kingdom of God. Yet, it is as the Watchtower states, the suffering is not the main focus —it is the reward.
However, are Jehovah’s Witnesses best served by putting such things that may befall us completely out of our minds?
There was a sister I knew. She had three young daughters. Naturally, she was very protective of them. And like every parent, she worried about their future. She once asked a visiting circuit overseer if we could expect to be persecuted or even killed during the tribulation. His reply to her was that not a single Christian would perish during the world’s worst time of calamity. No doubt that was what she wanted to hear.
And it is understandable that a circuit overseer would express that sort of cocksureness. After all, it has been over a half century since Jehovah’s Witnesses were persecuted in America or Europe —excluding the witnesses who suffered behind the Iron Curtain up until the fall of the USSR. Circuit overseers and other brothers who oversee districts and branches and zones, and Bethel brothers and the Governing Body, have certainly never faced the kind of hardships Paul enumerated. All their needs are cared for.

If we are honest we will admit that the present hierarchy of overseers —particularly the Bethel elders —better fit the description of the Corinthian elders who lived like honored kings —far above all the messy, bloody business Paul lived. Concerning those brothers Paul wrote the following: “Are you already satisfied? Are you already rich? Have you begun ruling as kings without us? I really wish that you had begun ruling as kings, so that we also might rule with you as kings. For it seems to me that God has put us the apostles last on exhibition as men condemned to death, because we have become a theatrical spectacle to the world, and to angels and to men. We are fools because of Christ, but you are discreet in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are held in honor, but we in dishonor. Down to this very hour we continue to hunger and thirst and to be poorly clothed and to be beaten and to be homeless and to toil, working with our own hands. When insulted, we bless; when persecuted, we patiently endure; when slandered, we answer mildly; we have become as the refuse of the world, the offscouring of all things, until now.”

Paul’s reference to being “a theatrical spectacle to the world and to angels” speaks to the aforementioned issue between Jehovah and Satan concerning our integrity.

“PEOPLE WILL DELIVER YOU UP”​

JW courtroom
Certainly, Jehovah’s Witnesses in modern times have made many appearances on the world’s stage, particularly during the Nazi Holocaust. But what about now? It is inconceivable that the curtain will come down on this world without Jehovah’s Witnesses taking center stage for the grand finale.

Concerning that final act, Jesus said: “As for you, look out for yourselves; people will deliver you up to local courts, and you will be beaten in synagogues and be put on the stand before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them. Also, in all the nations the good news has to be preached first. But when they are leading you along to deliver you up, do not be anxious beforehand about what to speak; but whatever is given you in that hour, speak this, for you are not the ones speaking, but the holy spirit is. Furthermore, brother will deliver brother over to death, and a father a child, and children will rise up against parents and have them put to death; and you will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name. But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.”

The context of Jesus’ remarks in the 13th chapter of Mark has to do with what comes after nation rises against nation. And after the good news is preached. In other words, after the Watchtower-centered phase of the work is finished. Then, just as the original Messiah stood before Pilate and Herod, then Christ will appear before governors and kings vicariously, through his brothers. They will not need a lawyer to speak for them. They will not need a Bible. They won’t have to study up beforehand. The holy spirit will speak through them at the time they will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father.

As far as the circuit overseer’s assurance that not a single Christian will perish, Jesus indicated otherwise when he said: “brother will deliver brother over to death.” The coming breakdown of civilization will also fracture the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Under financial hardship and government repression, the faithless will betray the very brothers whom they presently sit next to in their kingdom halls. Even family members will betray one another. No doubt the simmering resentment of a swelling number of disfellowshipped JW’s and others whose hearts are not in it will leave them open to becoming pawns of Satan when Jehovah removes his protective barrier.
Such will be the final act before the curtain comes down. Are you ready to take the stage?
 
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יהוה_saves

Well-known member
are fools because of Christ, but you are discreet in Christ; we are weak, but you are strong; you are held in honor, but we in dishonor. Down to this very hour we continue to hunger and thirst and to be poorly clothed and to be beaten and to be homeless and to toil, working with our own hands. When insulted, we bless; when persecuted, we patiently endure; when slandered, we answer mildly; we have become as the refuse of the world, the offscouring of all things, until now.”

as i was reading this scripture i thought of JWs who find themselves in similar situation(s) and it’s not underheard of for a body of elders to suggest that suffering JWs perhaps should pray a different way, or put in more field service time or some other thing they need to do to augment their service to the org. and will receive some benefit as a result.

Then there is the question of Matt 6- praying for our daily needs per the model prayer and v 33 where it talks about putting the Kingdom first and all the necessaries in life like food and clothing will be addd to you. How does that factor in?
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
this is from this article:

As we know, the vast majority of people who have ever lived and died will be resurrected —‘some to a resurrection of life and others to a resurrection of judgment,’ as Jesus said. So, the point being, the judgment of the dead, the “Greeks,” will occur during the thousand years. But the “Jew” is judged first and resurrected first; hence, the first resurrection, or “the earlier resurrection” as Paul called it. Hence, those who have been called into Christ’s Kingdom must prove their loyalty and faithfulness in this life before they die in order to secure their being part of the first resurrection. They do not receive a “resurrection of judgment,” but are judged prior to their deaths. So, in that sense the judgment started with the members of the house of God with the very advent of Christianity.

@PJ54
@Watchman

please help me understand this.

the implication here is that ALL those who are still alive, all faithful JWs alive must prove their faithfulness while still alive, before they enter the Kingdom, i understand that correctly and it makes sense to me.

So are they not all called into Christ’s Kingdom?

My question is, how are they called? what does it mean to be called? is that the same as being anointed? And what about those who are alive and are not anointed- must they not also prove their faithfulness while still alive before entering the Kingdom and does that also make them amongst those who are judged first (The symbolic “Jew” and not the “Greek”?).
 
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PJ54

Well-known member
as i was reading this scripture i thought of JWs who find themselves in similar situation(s) and it’s not underheard of for a body of elders to suggest that suffering JWs perhaps should pray a different way, or put in more field service time or some other thing they need to do to augment their service to the org. and will receive some benefit as a result.

Then there is the question of Matt 6- praying for our daily needs per the model prayer and v 33 where it talks about putting the Kingdom first and all the necessaries in life like food and clothing will be addd to you. How does that factor in?
I think it's in part that we don't pursue great things for ourselves. Baruch comes to mind. He was going about life looking for better opportunities while working with Jerimiah, yet he lost focus on what mattered the most. This verse might help:
(Jeremiah 45:1-5) 45 This is the word that Jeremiah the prophet spoke to Barʹuch the son of Ne·riʹah when he wrote in a book these words dictated by Jeremiah in the fourth year of Je·hoiʹa·kim son of Jo·siʹah, the king of Judah: 2 “This is what Jehovah the God of Israel says concerning you, Barʹuch, 3 ‘You have said: “Woe to me, for Jehovah has added grief to my pain! I am weary from my groaning, and I have found no resting-place.”’ 4 “You should say to him, ‘This is what Jehovah says: “Look! What I have built up I am tearing down, and what I have planted I am uprooting—the entire land. 5 But you are seeking great things for yourself. Stop seeking such things.”’ “‘For I am about to bring a calamity on all flesh,’ declares Jehovah, ‘and wherever you may go, I will grant you your life as a spoil.’”
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
I think it's in part that we don't pursue great things for ourselves. Baruch comes to mind. He was going about life looking for better opportunities while working with Jerimiah, yet he lost focus on what mattered the most. This verse might help:
What a shock when the harlot outlives W/T and later finds Vatican was instrumental in her demise. Russian Orthodox church has already dismantled her assets there.
 
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PJ54

Well-known member
this is from this article:



@PJ54
@Watchman

please help me understand this.

the implication here is that ALL those who are still alive, all faithful JWs alive must prove their faithfulness while still alive, before they enter the Kingdom, i understand that correctly and it makes sense to me.

So are they not all called into Christ’s Kingdom?

My question is, how are they called? what does it mean to be called? is that the same as being anointed? And what about those who are alive and are not anointed- must they not also prove their faithfulness while will alive before entering the Kingdom and does that also make them amongst those who are judged first (The symbolic “Jew” and not the “Greek”?).
Consider what Jesus said to Nicodemus:
(John 3:5-8) 5 Jesus answered: “Most truly I say to you, unless anyone is born from water and spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. 6 What has been born from the flesh is flesh, and what has been born from the spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed because I told you: You people must be born again. 8 The wind blows where it wants to, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it is going. So it is with everyone who has been born from the spirit.”
The Spirit will do whatever it deems necessary to inform one's anointing. There's a couple article's where Robert gives his personal experience:

Hope this helps!
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
thanks @PJ54

From one of those articles:

the gentile times Jesus spoke of could not possibly have begun before Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 C.E. —and besides, there is a spiritual Jerusalem destined to be trampled upon by the nations for an appointed time.

from an empirical (practical) perspective, the gentile times could not have begun AT LEAST until after the second temple was destroyed. The apostles were standing before the temple in all its splendor- asking Jesus when all the things he spoke of would occur. If the gentile times had begun back in 607 BC it would have renedered his prophecy unintelligible- like an MC Escher woodcut.

So placing the gentile times sometime after 70 CE required a total reworking of the interpretation which could not include the 1914 interpretation.

It’s so simple to understand- how this hoax could have gone on as long as it has and mislead so many people- is just amazing.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
thanks @PJ54

From one of those articles:

the gentile times Jesus spoke of could not possibly have begun before Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 C.E. —and besides, there is a spiritual Jerusalem destined to be trampled upon by the nations for an appointed time.

from an empirical (practical) perspective, the gentile times could not have begun AT LEAST until after the second temple was destroyed. The apostles were standing before the temple in all its splendor- asking Jesus when all the things he spoke of would occur. If the gentile times had begun back in 607 BC it would have renedered his prophecy unintelligible- like an MC Escher woodcut.

So placing the gentile times sometime after 70 CE required a total reworking of the interpretation which could not include the 1914 interpretation.

It’s so simple to understand- how this hoax could have gone on as long as it has and mislead so many people- is just amazing.
Something to consider is that Charles Russell was a Protestant when he began at the time. If my memory serves me right, he was Presbyterian & Congregationalist. When he went with the 1914 doctrine, he made a Protestant error in doing so. Many of the apocalyptic churches were Protestant & "Born Again" type where they misunderstand a few verses, thinking of them as a revelation where they think they found the answer when the end will come. I mean at times you may see the sign bearing preacher with the saying "The End is Neigh!". One example is Pat Robertson from the 700 Club where he thought 2007 would be the end of the world. So, I personally think Charles Russell had made a prophetic mistake due to to still looking through the lens of Christendom. Difference is Satan jumped on that prediction in where he caused chaos of WWI to trick the world.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
Difference is Satan jumped on that prediction in where he caused chaos of WWI to trick the world.
agreed. Satan exploits manmade doctrines as much as he does world events.

He’s still at it with the current events of Ukraine.

That’s why we MUST always be on the watch.

These things all start to look the same after awhile and they do get wearisome- one could easily fall asleep.
 
D

Dane500

Guest
The term "The Great Tribulation" comes from Revelation 7:14.

What is the context? John was watching a scroll being opened one seal at a time.

The 2nd, 3rd and 4th seal tell of horsemen that bring great tribulation to the earth.

The 5th seal is about the 144,000.

The 6th seal tells about a great crowd that survive that great tribulation.

What tribulation? The one that is being described to John in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th seals of that scroll.

Yes, those horsemen are the cause of "the great tribulation."

And when did those horsemen ride? From 1914 onward.

We are living in the great tribulation. It is not a future event.

Christ tells us what conditions will be like when Armageddon strikes:

(Luke 17:26-30) Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the Flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of Sodʹom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed.

That is not describing a world reeling from great tribulation. The first horsemen rode at the beginning of the last days. The fourth horseman rides at the end of the last days and is relegated to a certain quarter of the earth. (Re 6:8) Not a fourth of the earth as in every fourth house on your block, but "the fourth part".

What quarter of the earth? Probably the same part of the earth mentioned when the sixth angel blew his trumpet where angels were untied: The area around the Euphrates river. (Re 9:14, 15)

And what has been happening in "the fourth part of the earth" surrounding that river here at the end of the last days?

Great Tribulation - Discussion.doc

The Fourth Horseman.doc

:^)
Dane
 
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