Peace and Security?

Maybelle

Well-known member
If you were back in the first century.And you heard Pauls letter read in the Congreation And you knew about what he said about the superfine apostles and you know about the evil slave and you heard John talk about the rocks below to waters.Then you heard the letter about Peace and Security.What would have been your first thought about who he was talking about When he said They would be saying Peace and Security.Would you think it was the Nations or so someone else?
I have thought the same myself
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
So right now is the yearly pilgrimage to Mecca for Muslims and to Mt Arafat. Of interest in this years televised broadcast of the event I noticed that in the upper left hand the word "In Peace and Security" continue to flash forth. I haven't checked but perhaps it is this years theme, just as the Org has themes for the assemblies and such.

I'm not saying this has anything to do with the scripture, just found it interesting that the 2nd largest religion in the world is saying peace and security.

View attachment 1473

Here is a link to the live video feed.
If you were back in the first century.And you heard Pauls letter read in the Congreation And you knew about what he said about the superfine apostles and you know about the evil slave and you heard John talk about the rocks below to waters.Then you heard the letter about Peace and Security.What would have been your first thought about who he was talking about When he said They would be saying Peace and Security.Would you think it was the Nations or so someone else?
I think the issue has more to do with the objectivity of the statement. Peace and security is not looked for by the watchtower for its people. It’s claim is for a ‘spiritual paradise’ and ‘pure worship’ and further, that it is their husbandry of the flock that has procured it, ergo, the faithful and discrete slave. The nations though, do not look for faith as a curative measure, but peace and the prosperity that secures it for their own ends, rather than through seeking Jehovah whilst He still may be found.
Plus, the churches and various faiths see such security for themselves to flourish. The witnesses, more or less, do not look for security at this time, quite the opposite. The scripture, (in my humble opinion) is not referring to a hoped for reality, but a falsity, a deceit that beguiles the nations into the unnatural belief that they have achieved what Jehovah (or nameless God of the nations) has been unable to give. Thus, perhaps the scripture points to a stated belief, a ruse, the guile, of what proves to be a slight of hand to lull the nations into unpreparedness and thus vulnerable to first strike. The witnesses though, look forward to strife (though not for themselves) and have their ‘go-bags’ to hand. They won’t be lulled into thinking that it has been achieved without seeing first Jehovah‘s hand in it. The deceit that will ensnare them, and is currently doing so, is that of ‘pure worship’. This in itself is their trap, because their spiritual paradise will prove to be anything but Spiritual or paradisiac. Thus the declaration of peace and security, only has meaning for the nations in its intended meaning. One of them will be lying.
 
Z

Zane

Guest
The description of Jehovah’s day "coming exactly as a thief in the night" in the previous verse (1Th 5:2) tells us what type of proclamation that the statement of "Peace and security" will be. In the night, before a thief strikes, all is calm. There is no need for alarm. The home owner feels at peace and feels secure. So i do not think that it will be a call for peace and security, but that it will be a proclamation that they have peace and security.

In Ezekiel and Daniel (see below) they are considering themselves to have "security" and to be living "without disturbance" (at peace). And Amos also prophesies that they will be "saying" that they are beyond the reach of calamity (have peace and security) just as 1st Thessalonians 5:3 does.

(Ezekiel 38:10, 11) “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘In that day thoughts will come into your heart, and you will devise an evil plan. 11 You will say: “I (Gog of Magog) will invade the land of unprotected settlements. I will come against those living in security, without disturbance, all of them living in settlements unprotected by walls, bars, or gates.”

It says they are living in "unprotected settlements", without walls, bars, or gates. Who are? Look at the context for that answer:

(Ezekiel 38:8)
You (Gog of Magog) will be given attention after many days. In the final part of the years you will invade the land whose people have been restored from the ravages of the sword, collected together out of many peoples onto the mountains of Israel, which had long been lying devastated. The inhabitants of this land were restored from the peoples, and all of them dwell in security.

(Ezekiel 38:12) It will be to take much spoil and plunder, to attack the devastated places that are now inhabited and a people regathered from the nations, who are accumulating wealth and property, those who are living in the center of the earth.

Who on earth have been "regathered" back to their homeland that had been devastated, but is now restored and inhabited?

(Daniel 8:25) And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

Who Is this speaking of? Well who is the "Prince of princes" protecting? Daniel 12:1 answers that.

(Amos 9:10) They will die by the sword, all the sinners of my people, Those who are saying, “The calamity will not come near us or reach us.”’

Who Is Amos 9:10 speaking about? Amos 9:9 tells you.

Are the similar prophecies in Jeremiah and Ezekiel referring to the same event? Here are the excerpts from those books:

(Jeremiah 6:13-15)
“For from the least to the greatest, each one is making dishonest gain; From the prophet to the priest, each one is practicing fraud. 14 And they try to heal the breakdown of my people lightly, saying, There is peace! There is peace!When there is no peace. 15 Do they feel ashamed of the detestable things they have done? They feel no shame at all! They do not even know how to feel humiliated! So they will fall among the fallen. When I bring punishment on them they will stumble,” says Jehovah.

(Jeremiah 8:8-12) ‘How can you say: “We are wise, and we have the law of Jehovah”? For in fact, the lying stylus of the scribes has been used only for falsehood. 9 The wise have been put to shame. They have become terrified and will be caught. Look! They have rejected the word of Jehovah, And what wisdom do they have? 10 So I will give their wives to other men, Their fields to other owners; For from the least to the greatest, each one is making dishonest gain; From the prophet to the priest, each one is practicing fraud. 11 And they try to heal the breakdown of the daughter of my people lightly, saying, “There is peace! There is peace!When there is no peace. 12 Do they feel ashamed of the detestable things they have done? They feel no shame at all! They do not even know how to feel humiliated! So they will fall among the fallen. When I bring punishment on them they will stumble,’ says Jehovah.

(Ezekiel 13:1-10) And the word of Jehovah again came to me, saying: 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel, and say to those who fabricate their own prophecies, ‘Hear the word of Jehovah. 3 This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Woe to the stupid prophets, who follow their own spirit, when they have seen nothing! 4 O Israel, your prophets have become like foxes among the ruins. 5 You will not go to the broken places in the stone walls to rebuild them for the house of Israel, so that Israel may keep standing in the battle in the day of Jehovah.” 6 “They have seen false visions and foretold a lie, those who are saying, ‘The word of Jehovah is,’ when Jehovah himself has not sent them, and they have waited for their word to come true. 7 Is it not a false vision that you have seen and a lie that you have foretold when you say, ‘The word of Jehovah is,’ when I have not said anything?”’ 8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “‘Because you have spoken what is false and your visions are a lie, I am against you,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.” 9 My hand is against the prophets whose visions are false and who foretell a lie. They will not be among the people with whom I confide; nor will they be written in the registry of the house of Israel; nor will they return to the land of Israel; and you will have to know that I am the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. 10 All of this is because they have led my people astray by saying, “There is peace!when there is no peace. When a flimsy partition wall is built, they are plastering it with whitewash.’

(Ezekiel 13:16) The prophets of Israel are gone, those who prophesy to Jerusalem and who see visions of peace for her, when there is no peace,”’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

:)
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
The description of Jehovah’s day "coming exactly as a thief in the night" in the previous verse (1Th 5:2) tells us what type of proclamation that the statement of "Peace and security" will be. In the night, before a thief strikes, all is calm. There is no need for alarm. The home owner feels at peace and feels secure. So i do not think that it will be a call for peace and security, but that it will be a proclamation that they have peace and security.

In Ezekiel and Daniel (see below) they are considering themselves to have "security" and to be living "without disturbance" (at peace). And Amos also prophesies that they will be "saying" that they are beyond the reach of calamity (have peace and security) just as 1st Thessalonians 5:3 does.

(Ezekiel 38:10, 11) “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘In that day thoughts will come into your heart, and you will devise an evil plan. 11 You will say: “I (Gog of Magog) will invade the land of unprotected settlements. I will come against those living in security, without disturbance, all of them living in settlements unprotected by walls, bars, or gates.”

It says they are living in "unprotected settlements", without walls, bars, or gates. Who are? Look at the context for that answer:

(Ezekiel 38:8)
You (Gog of Magog) will be given attention after many days. In the final part of the years you will invade the land whose people have been restored from the ravages of the sword, collected together out of many peoples onto the mountains of Israel, which had long been lying devastated. The inhabitants of this land were restored from the peoples, and all of them dwell in security.

(Ezekiel 38:12) It will be to take much spoil and plunder, to attack the devastated places that are now inhabited and a people regathered from the nations, who are accumulating wealth and property, those who are living in the center of the earth.

Who on earth have been "regathered" back to their homeland that had been devastated, but is now restored and inhabited?

(Daniel 8:25) And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

Who Is this speaking of? Well who is the "Prince of princes" protecting? Daniel 12:1 answers that.

(Amos 9:10) They will die by the sword, all the sinners of my people, Those who are saying, “The calamity will not come near us or reach us.”’

Who Is Amos 9:10 speaking about? Amos 9:9 tells you.

Are the similar prophecies in Jeremiah and Ezekiel referring to the same event? Here are the excerpts from those books:

(Jeremiah 6:13-15)
“For from the least to the greatest, each one is making dishonest gain; From the prophet to the priest, each one is practicing fraud. 14 And they try to heal the breakdown of my people lightly, saying, There is peace! There is peace!When there is no peace. 15 Do they feel ashamed of the detestable things they have done? They feel no shame at all! They do not even know how to feel humiliated! So they will fall among the fallen. When I bring punishment on them they will stumble,” says Jehovah.

(Jeremiah 8:8-12) ‘How can you say: “We are wise, and we have the law of Jehovah”? For in fact, the lying stylus of the scribes has been used only for falsehood. 9 The wise have been put to shame. They have become terrified and will be caught. Look! They have rejected the word of Jehovah, And what wisdom do they have? 10 So I will give their wives to other men, Their fields to other owners; For from the least to the greatest, each one is making dishonest gain; From the prophet to the priest, each one is practicing fraud. 11 And they try to heal the breakdown of the daughter of my people lightly, saying, “There is peace! There is peace!When there is no peace. 12 Do they feel ashamed of the detestable things they have done? They feel no shame at all! They do not even know how to feel humiliated! So they will fall among the fallen. When I bring punishment on them they will stumble,’ says Jehovah.

(Ezekiel 13:1-10) And the word of Jehovah again came to me, saying: 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel, and say to those who fabricate their own prophecies, ‘Hear the word of Jehovah. 3 This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Woe to the stupid prophets, who follow their own spirit, when they have seen nothing! 4 O Israel, your prophets have become like foxes among the ruins. 5 You will not go to the broken places in the stone walls to rebuild them for the house of Israel, so that Israel may keep standing in the battle in the day of Jehovah.” 6 “They have seen false visions and foretold a lie, those who are saying, ‘The word of Jehovah is,’ when Jehovah himself has not sent them, and they have waited for their word to come true. 7 Is it not a false vision that you have seen and a lie that you have foretold when you say, ‘The word of Jehovah is,’ when I have not said anything?”’ 8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “‘Because you have spoken what is false and your visions are a lie, I am against you,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.” 9 My hand is against the prophets whose visions are false and who foretell a lie. They will not be among the people with whom I confide; nor will they be written in the registry of the house of Israel; nor will they return to the land of Israel; and you will have to know that I am the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. 10 All of this is because they have led my people astray by saying, “There is peace!when there is no peace. When a flimsy partition wall is built, they are plastering it with whitewash.’

(Ezekiel 13:16) The prophets of Israel are gone, those who prophesy to Jerusalem and who see visions of peace for her, when there is no peace,”’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

:)
Exactly so. Achieving peace and security was certainly how it was interpreted during the 60s and 70s. I think around 1969 there was quite an article about it in the awake, but I can’t be certain now.
 
W

w_stone

Guest
We are living in a spiritually Paradise We are getting the best spiritual food.We are not the Man of lawlessness that's the clergy of Christendom And we say that the Nation will make a call of Peace and Security.That what we were told.All false..
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
The description of Jehovah’s day "coming exactly as a thief in the night" in the previous verse (1Th 5:2) tells us what type of proclamation that the statement of "Peace and security" will be. In the night, before a thief strikes, all is calm. There is no need for alarm. The home owner feels at peace and feels secure. So i do not think that it will be a call for peace and security, but that it will be a proclamation that they have peace and security.

In Ezekiel and Daniel (see below) they are considering themselves to have "security" and to be living "without disturbance" (at peace). And Amos also prophesies that they will be "saying" that they are beyond the reach of calamity (have peace and security) just as 1st Thessalonians 5:3 does.

(Ezekiel 38:10, 11) “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘In that day thoughts will come into your heart, and you will devise an evil plan. 11 You will say: “I (Gog of Magog) will invade the land of unprotected settlements. I will come against those living in security, without disturbance, all of them living in settlements unprotected by walls, bars, or gates.”

It says they are living in "unprotected settlements", without walls, bars, or gates. Who are? Look at the context for that answer:

(Ezekiel 38:8)
You (Gog of Magog) will be given attention after many days. In the final part of the years you will invade the land whose people have been restored from the ravages of the sword, collected together out of many peoples onto the mountains of Israel, which had long been lying devastated. The inhabitants of this land were restored from the peoples, and all of them dwell in security.

(Ezekiel 38:12) It will be to take much spoil and plunder, to attack the devastated places that are now inhabited and a people regathered from the nations, who are accumulating wealth and property, those who are living in the center of the earth.

Who on earth have been "regathered" back to their homeland that had been devastated, but is now restored and inhabited?

(Daniel 8:25) And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

Who Is this speaking of? Well who is the "Prince of princes" protecting? Daniel 12:1 answers that.

(Amos 9:10) They will die by the sword, all the sinners of my people, Those who are saying, “The calamity will not come near us or reach us.”’

Who Is Amos 9:10 speaking about? Amos 9:9 tells you.

Are the similar prophecies in Jeremiah and Ezekiel referring to the same event? Here are the excerpts from those books:

(Jeremiah 6:13-15)
“For from the least to the greatest, each one is making dishonest gain; From the prophet to the priest, each one is practicing fraud. 14 And they try to heal the breakdown of my people lightly, saying, There is peace! There is peace!When there is no peace. 15 Do they feel ashamed of the detestable things they have done? They feel no shame at all! They do not even know how to feel humiliated! So they will fall among the fallen. When I bring punishment on them they will stumble,” says Jehovah.

(Jeremiah 8:8-12) ‘How can you say: “We are wise, and we have the law of Jehovah”? For in fact, the lying stylus of the scribes has been used only for falsehood. 9 The wise have been put to shame. They have become terrified and will be caught. Look! They have rejected the word of Jehovah, And what wisdom do they have? 10 So I will give their wives to other men, Their fields to other owners; For from the least to the greatest, each one is making dishonest gain; From the prophet to the priest, each one is practicing fraud. 11 And they try to heal the breakdown of the daughter of my people lightly, saying, “There is peace! There is peace!When there is no peace. 12 Do they feel ashamed of the detestable things they have done? They feel no shame at all! They do not even know how to feel humiliated! So they will fall among the fallen. When I bring punishment on them they will stumble,’ says Jehovah.

(Ezekiel 13:1-10) And the word of Jehovah again came to me, saying: 2 “Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel, and say to those who fabricate their own prophecies, ‘Hear the word of Jehovah. 3 This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Woe to the stupid prophets, who follow their own spirit, when they have seen nothing! 4 O Israel, your prophets have become like foxes among the ruins. 5 You will not go to the broken places in the stone walls to rebuild them for the house of Israel, so that Israel may keep standing in the battle in the day of Jehovah.” 6 “They have seen false visions and foretold a lie, those who are saying, ‘The word of Jehovah is,’ when Jehovah himself has not sent them, and they have waited for their word to come true. 7 Is it not a false vision that you have seen and a lie that you have foretold when you say, ‘The word of Jehovah is,’ when I have not said anything?”’ 8 “‘Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “‘Because you have spoken what is false and your visions are a lie, I am against you,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.” 9 My hand is against the prophets whose visions are false and who foretell a lie. They will not be among the people with whom I confide; nor will they be written in the registry of the house of Israel; nor will they return to the land of Israel; and you will have to know that I am the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. 10 All of this is because they have led my people astray by saying, “There is peace!when there is no peace. When a flimsy partition wall is built, they are plastering it with whitewash.’

(Ezekiel 13:16) The prophets of Israel are gone, those who prophesy to Jerusalem and who see visions of peace for her, when there is no peace,”’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.

:)
Those living in securty are those redeemed from the valley of dry bones in ch37. The spiritually dead survivors under Christ and Zion. Remember Mic4 the Mountain of Jehovah where the nations stream to be educated. Try Robert's book Zane. You will have a better understanding of where we are coming from, giving you ground for discussion?
 

Yupyup_yup

Well-known member
I still think

"Peace and Security" is the same as "Safe and Effective"

It was created to create/protect prosperity

Project warp speed
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
To put things in perspective. WW3 has already begun. At the moment it is a proxy war in a very confined area of Eastern Europe. But dozens of nations are supplying Ukraine with weapons and training as well as mercenaries, in order to kill as many Russians as possible. Putin has shown remarkable restraint so far, considering that the Anglo beast has signaled its intention to defeat Russia and break it up into smaller regions. All the while Russia keeps supplying its erstwhile partners with gas and other vital resources. It is an untenable situation. The continued peace and security of the world is becoming the paramount issue going forward.

Although the Watchtower has instilled in JWs an expectation of some sort of development when political leaders will be saying "peace and security," ironically, the actual occurrence will result in the repudiation of everything else the WT has taught as regards the fulfillment of prophecy. That is because whenever they are saying "peace and security" will immediately precede the crash of the Anglo-dominated system. Everything that JWs have been deluded into imagining was fulfilled in 1914 will come about then, foremost being the death stroke upon the head of the wild beast.

But the actual fulfillment of the prophecy will provide the sons of day and sons of light a clear signal to leave the WT and go in a new direction.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
To put things in perspective. WW3 has already begun. At the moment it is a proxy war in a very confined area of Eastern Europe. But dozens of nations are supplying Ukraine with weapons and training as well as mercenaries, in order to kill as many Russians as possible. Putin has shown remarkable restraint so far, considering that the Anglo beast has signaled its intention to defeat Russia and break it up into smaller regions. All the while Russia keeps supplying its erstwhile partners with gas and other vital resources. It is an untenable situation. The continued peace and security of the world is becoming the paramount issue going forward.

Although the Watchtower has instilled in JWs an expectation of some sort of development when political leaders will be saying "peace and security," ironically, the actual occurrence will result in the repudiation of everything else the WT has taught as regards the fulfillment of prophecy. That is because whenever they are saying "peace and security" will immediately precede the crash of the Anglo-dominated system. Everything that JWs have been deluded into imagining was fulfilled in 1914 will come about then, foremost being the death stroke upon the head of the wild beast.

But the actual fulfillment of the prophecy will provide the sons of day and sons of light a clear signal to leave the WT and go in a new direction.
Speaking of Russia.

Satellite Imagery Shows Global Crop Declines – Except For Russia And China​

 

kirmmy

Well-known member
To put things in perspective. WW3 has already begun. At the moment it is a proxy war in a very confined area of Eastern Europe. But dozens of nations are supplying Ukraine with weapons and training as well as mercenaries, in order to kill as many Russians as possible. Putin has shown remarkable restraint so far, considering that the Anglo beast has signaled its intention to defeat Russia and break it up into smaller regions. All the while Russia keeps supplying its erstwhile partners with gas and other vital resources. It is an untenable situation. The continued peace and security of the world is becoming the paramount issue going forward.

Although the Watchtower has instilled in JWs an expectation of some sort of development when political leaders will be saying "peace and security," ironically, the actual occurrence will result in the repudiation of everything else the WT has taught as regards the fulfillment of prophecy. That is because whenever they are saying "peace and security" will immediately precede the crash of the Anglo-dominated system. Everything that JWs have been deluded into imagining was fulfilled in 1914 will come about then, foremost being the death stroke upon the head of the wild beast.

But the actual fulfillment of the prophecy will provide the sons of day and sons of light a clear signal to leave the WT and go in a new direction.
Interesting. I always thought the cry came after the 8th king set up his kingdom and then God brings Armageddon. But it sounds from what you're saying the cry will come before the GT. I always wondered about that...
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
To put things in perspective. WW3 has already begun. At the moment it is a proxy war in a very confined area of Eastern Europe. But dozens of nations are supplying Ukraine with weapons and training as well as mercenaries, in order to kill as many Russians as possible. Putin has shown remarkable restraint so far, considering that the Anglo beast has signaled its intention to defeat Russia and break it up into smaller regions. All the while Russia keeps supplying its erstwhile partners with gas and other vital resources. It is an untenable situation. The continued peace and security of the world is becoming the paramount issue going forward.

Although the Watchtower has instilled in JWs an expectation of some sort of development when political leaders will be saying "peace and security," ironically, the actual occurrence will result in the repudiation of everything else the WT has taught as regards the fulfillment of prophecy. That is because whenever they are saying "peace and security" will immediately precede the crash of the Anglo-dominated system. Everything that JWs have been deluded into imagining was fulfilled in 1914 will come about then, foremost being the death stroke upon the head of the wild beast.

But the actual fulfillment of the prophecy will provide the sons of day and sons of light a clear signal to leave the WT and go in a new direction.
So the west will prevail over Russia? I thought it was the other way around. Have I got my kings mixed up again?
 
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