Stepping down as an elder

BagdadBill

Well-known member
Maybe say it like this. If you feel you are compromising now, think how you will feel later down the road that you didn't drag your foot in the sand and say no farther. Life is along string of compromises but it doesn't have to be that way with our God. Achan comes to mind very frequently lately. Funny thing about Jehovah's Witnesses. If I mention a name, you already know the moral warning I'm mentioning. If you are in fact one of Jehovah's Witnesses then you should feel a certain feeling of satisfaction of being an actual student of the bible.
There is a line. We didn't always need to talk about it much because it was understood. Now there is cause or impetus that is forcing our hand and making us clearly identify ourselves as either on God's side or man's. Did you see the shift? It has without question, become stronger during the last three years. It had to happen at some point. The dividing. The separation. If you previously chose poorly, you can still change. Recant. Repent.
If you are an elder don't think that it will end well with regard to that. This is beyond your control. Step out of the way with a clean conscience and know that your God sees you. The body of elders in any congregation is compromised at this point. There is no way it hasn't been. King has already said as much and will verify what I have just said. It isn't pleasant. It wasn't meant to be. That which comes is death dealing. This is what we have to face. A former angel of God who has nothing but hatred in his heart (or whatever they use as a heart).
I'm rambling now but imagine a spirit creature who far surpasses us in intellect and capability and yet they hate us because why? Because we are the glory to God. Humans are something special. Something that was never done before. Something in physical form that was designed to live in harmony and give glory to the Creator. I have one wish. I would like to see what Eve looked like.
 

Bruce

Active member
The other problem is being a sheeplike person, it is easy to take advantage of us.

Especially as an elder when a knew assignment comes along or you see a need or someone needs help, you feel obliged to help. As a result you keep getting drawn back into being a cog in the wheel.

A case in point being the upcoming in person assemblies and having to help out in the departments, uggg it's so hard...
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Bingo. People will talk about the adverse health aspects, but don't want to go there. The host DNA is altered permanently by the process of reverse transcription. It is also passed on to any offspring. People talk about how bad a tattoo is. This marking is much worse than that. A cigarette can be reversed. This cannot. "Therefore, since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Co. 7:1) Tragically, this cannot be reversed. This is what happens when one trusts liars and murderers instead of yielding to God's holy spirit.
Except that Jehovah can remove the damage.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
The other problem is being a sheeplike person, it is easy to take advantage of us.

Especially as an elder when a knew assignment comes along or you see a need or someone needs help, you feel obliged to help. As a result you keep getting drawn back into being a cog in the wheel.

A case in point being the upcoming in person assemblies and having to help out in the departments, uggg it's so hard...
It’s good you’re getting feedback. I would only add to find a scripture that encapsulates how you feel about it. Pray and wait to be convinced that you are honoring Jehovah. It is your conscience and no one else will stand with you before Jehovah when the time comes for an accounting. If you feel uncertain wait for Jehovah to make it clear to you and once you are confident in the answer he gives, pray for the courage to act. Imagine having a son in the same predicament. What advice would you give him?
 

Eventhorizon

Well-known member
It looks like it is ultimately up to each appointed man as to where their breaking point is. Mine is very close. I really see no up side in a scorched earth rant from the platform, for a couple of reasons. First, you would probably be shut down prior to making your point. Two, the vast majority (at least in my congregation) truly hang on the words of the GB and are vaxxed, so it would go over their heads anyway(and they are vaxxed and will not understand my perspective). Third, am not seeking to be disfellowshipped or marked for a couple of reasons; Would definitely outline the reason for stepping down in resignation letter, so that all are aware. if Worded properly can also put some pressure on at least one other PIMI elder on the body who has not had the stroke poke.

lastly there are many vaxxed elderly in my cong pulling a stunt like that might send one of them into cardiac arrest considering the clots running around in them
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I think this thread may be an appropriate place to relate my experience of the last few days. I haven’t been in close contact with the sister and brother who found me door to door and studied the bible with me, which led to my baptism as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, I have felt compelled to contact them to discuss the vaccine and the GB with them and most importantly to start a conversation about bible prophecy and what I have learned from Robert King through his book, this forum and my own subsequent studies. I finally talked with the Sister on Tuesday. The brother and sister are divorced and the brother didn’t return my phone message. But the sister is a nurse who works with addicts at a methadone clinic and we made an appointment and talked for some time on Tuesday.

I was shocked that she was completely unaware that the vaccine is causing harm. She is also unaware of any conflict in the congregations nor does she see any of the brothers and sisters who may be PIMO. So, this is all news to her. She was aware of a local brother who had a heart attack but she did not connect that event to the vaccine and who can say if it was connected or not? She asked the question of why it isn’t more apparent there is a controversy. There is a huge wall of silence and many people, including children are being victimized. Now I realize that Jehovah can cure ALL damage to our fleshly bodies include DNA but how can someone claim to be awake and be so unaware, even if one views these events from a purely secular viewpoint?

What happened with COVID and the vaccine was the first time that I have witnessed a global “conspiracy” and global issue where the same conflict was taking place in really every country. This was a unique event that seems to have really changed the world situation and so how could it possibly go unobserved? I’m still flabbergasted.
 

DoubleThink333

Well-known member
Bingo. People will talk about the adverse health aspects, but don't want to go there. The host DNA is altered permanently by the process of reverse transcription. It is also passed on to any offspring. People talk about how bad a tattoo is. This marking is much worse than that. A cigarette can be reversed. This cannot. "Therefore, since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Co. 7:1) Tragically, this cannot be reversed. This is what happens when one trusts liars and murderers instead of yielding to God's holy spirit.
Jesus warned us “As in the days of Noah, so too will the coming of the Son of Man be.” JWs and many other “Christians” only look to the next bit of the verse to see that no one will be paying attention and want to imagine that’s the whole of the prophecy.

But there was A LOT more going on in Noah’s day than just eating and drinking and being given in marriage. When Jesus was alive, part of their well known and often referred to scripture included the book of Enoch, see the letter of Jude for proof of that. Anyone who has not read or heard the book of Enoch NEEDS to. Here’s a link to an audio version

Here is a link to a website where you can read the text online or download a PDF, all free...

I know it’s not of the 66 book canonical text, BUT please consider WHO commissioned the selecting of the 66 books and WHO carried out the job. A Roman Emperor and the Roman Catholic Church. Need I say more? LoL! Also, the number 66 is very suspicious IMO.

Probably few people are actually going to read the book of Enoch, so I will include the key points which tell us what it was like to be living in the days of Noah.

We all know there were giants on the earth in those days, specifically there were the “Nephilim”, which were abominations of fallen angels and human women. But if we consider the prevalence of mythical creatures throughout the ancient world in the forms of half animal half human hybrids, is it really a big stretch to conclude that PERHAPS the fallen angels were copulating with animals as well as humans? OR PERHAPS some of the “knowledge” the fallen angels imparted to mankind was the knowledge of genetics and splicing? Both of which could have resulted in creatures like mermaids, centaurs, etc...

What would be the purpose for the fallen angels to do such things? Go back to Genesis 3:15 “And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and her offspring. He will crush your head, and you will strike him in the heel.” This is the declaration of what is known as “The Seed War” Satan knew that his destruction would come by virtue of the WOMAN’S offspring (seed). So what happened in Genesis 6 was Satan’s attempt to corrupt the “generations” (genetics) of mankind with the seed of fallen angels and/or animals. Manipulate the DNA, mankind is no longer “fully human”, thus the seed of the woman is no longer just the seed of a human woman and then Satan can “win” against God on a technicality. Notice what Genesis 6:9 says about Noah and his “generations” (genetics) “These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, and **perfect in his generations**: Noah walked with God.” (American Standard Version) The NWT really messed this verse up... all other translations have “perfect in his generations” and that is the key point. Noah’s GENERATIONS (genetics) were Perfectly HUMAN, not corrupted by the fallen angels or the knowledge they had brought to mankind to corrupt their DNA.

Everyone needs to look into this and learn about this. Our lives depend on it! Our souls depend on it!
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I know it’s not of the 66 book canonical text, BUT please consider WHO commissioned the selecting of the 66 books and WHO carried out the job. A Roman Emperor and the Roman Catholic Church. Need I say more? LoL! Also, the number 66 is very suspicious IMO.
This is actually hilarious! Did the Roman Catholic Church tells the Jews what to include in the Hebrew scriptures???? I don’t know anything about the book of Enoch one way or another, but your reason for promoting it is doesn’t pass the smell test.
 

DoubleThink333

Well-known member
I think this thread may be an appropriate place to relate my experience of the last few days. I haven’t been in close contact with the sister and brother who found me door to door and studied the bible with me, which led to my baptism as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. However, I have felt compelled to contact them to discuss the vaccine and the GB with them and most importantly to start a conversation about bible prophecy and what I have learned from Robert King through his book, this forum and my own subsequent studies. I finally talked with the Sister on Tuesday. The brother and sister are divorced and the brother didn’t return my phone message. But the sister is a nurse who works with addicts at a methadone clinic and we made an appointment and talked for some time on Tuesday.

I was shocked that she was completely unaware that the vaccine is causing harm. She is also unaware of any conflict in the congregations nor does she see any of the brothers and sisters who may be PIMO. So, this is all news to her. She was aware of a local brother who had a heart attack but she did not connect that event to the vaccine and who can say if it was connected or not? She asked the question of why it isn’t more apparent there is a controversy. There is a huge wall of silence and many people, including children are being victimized. Now I realize that Jehovah can cure ALL damage to our fleshly bodies include DNA but how can someone claim to be awake and be so unaware, even if one views these events from a purely secular viewpoint?

What happened with COVID and the vaccine was the first time that I have witnessed a global “conspiracy” and global issue where the same conflict was taking place in really every country. This was a unique event that seems to have really changed the world situation and so how could it possibly go unobserved? I’m still flabbergasted.
In my opinion, this apparent lack of observation and therefore lack of knowledge is because many like us who are seeing the danger and fleeing are doing so silently, politely and without drawing any attention to ourselves.

My exit and dissatisfaction with the covid policies was as public and visible to everyone as it could be and I wanted it that way. In fact, I wish I could have been more public about it and made an even bigger scene than I did... all I was able to do was post a very public message in the Zoom chat of one of our meetings... the brother that was giving the talk was giving a beautiful talk about how fearfully and wonderfully made we are and how everything in the universe is dependent on each other, his speech was eloquent and beautifully presented and then like a light switch he FLIPPED in his message and in his speech and delivery. Suddenly, he was saying how horrible and selfish people are who refuse to wear the masks, he basically said people like me who don’t wear the masks are in opposition to God and where his speech had been so easily flowing and natural sounding before, now it sounded robotic, poorly scripted and forced. I called attention to all this in the Zoom chat and told them God created us to breathe oxygen, not to rebreathe our toxic waste in the form of CO2 and that his speech was stumbled by God because God is not one to be mocked and that they would be judged harshly for trying to change what God had intended in order to please the governments of men. I was kicked from the meeting in less than 1 minute and received a “shepherding call” a couple weeks later. I had not done, nor said anything for which they could disfellowship me for but I was asked multiple times throughout the call whether I still wanted to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I told them I wasn’t sure and would have to think about it. They also tried to dominate the conversation by telling me I should have said what I said to them in private and I was like “No, you all are misleading Jehovah’s people. Jehovah’s people deserve to hear how you are misleading them and make up their own minds.” To which they told me my message “upset” quite a few brothers and sisters, LoL 😂 I was like “It only upset them because they know it’s true...” I told them all I could about the vaxx, the side effects, and the satanic origin of abortions as claimed by the satanic temple. They did not want to hear it. One of them was an RN and wanted to pretend he knew everything about everything in the medical field, he was rather shocked and flustered when I knew more than him, me a stay at home mom.... he was saying the vaccine was “safe and effective” and when I asked him for proof he blew me off saying “we’re not here for that...” or “even if I had proof I wouldn’t share it with you because it’s not relevant to spiritual things...” I was like 🤨 “Right.... you’re not gonna share it because you don’t have it. If you had it you would share it because it would mean my life and well-being and you would be obligated to share such information with me, just as I am sharing my information with you. But you injected something into your bodies in complete ignorance and you will suffer the consequences. I have proof these are dangerous, I am sharing it with you because I love and care about you. But you don’t want to see it because you have already made your choice and you don’t want to consider that maybe you chose wrong and so you’re both just doubling down on stupid.” They were shocked to hear me speak like that to them because I am usually so kind and polite and quiet. They had no idea how to deal with me, LoL 😂 but after that I noticed they disabled the chat feature in Zoom, LoL just in case someone else might have an independent mind and dare to speak it publicly.

All that to illustrate that we need to be as loud and vocal as we possibly can. Forget being polite! Forget about YOUR dignity! We are here to serve God, to spread His messages. We cannot be fearful of mere men in suits who claim authority over us in the name of our Heavenly Father.
 

DoubleThink333

Well-known member
This is actually hilarious! Did the Roman Catholic Church tells the Jews what to include in the Hebrew scriptures???? I don’t know anything about the book of Enoch one way or another, but your reason for promoting it is doesn’t pass the smell test.
I understand your reservation, but you really won’t know until you look into yourself. 🙏❤️💝
 

DoubleThink333

Well-known member
Be brave! Look into it! You have the same ability to discern good from bad as the next person. But how can you discern something which you know nothing about? I promise, reading the book of Enoch is NOT going to weaken your relationship with God. In my experience, it was quite the opposite. So many things going on now in our times begin to make so much more sense when you have the book of Enoch in your mind.
Also, scripture verifies scripture. The letter of Jude is basically quoting word for word from the book of Enoch and he also mentions the book of Enoch by name in his letter. So if the book of Enoch was not important then why would Jude quote it and mention it by name?
 

Eventhorizon

Well-known member
In my opinion, this apparent lack of observation and therefore lack of knowledge is because many like us who are seeing the danger and fleeing are doing so silently, politely and without drawing any attention to ourselves.

My exit and dissatisfaction with the covid policies was as public and visible to everyone as it could be and I wanted it that way. In fact, I wish I could have been more public about it and made an even bigger scene than I did... all I was able to do was post a very public message in the Zoom chat of one of our meetings... the brother that was giving the talk was giving a beautiful talk about how fearfully and wonderfully made we are and how everything in the universe is dependent on each other, his speech was eloquent and beautifully presented and then like a light switch he FLIPPED in his message and in his speech and delivery. Suddenly, he was saying how horrible and selfish people are who refuse to wear the masks, he basically said people like me who don’t wear the masks are in opposition to God and where his speech had been so easily flowing and natural sounding before, now it sounded robotic, poorly scripted and forced. I called attention to all this in the Zoom chat and told them God created us to breathe oxygen, not to rebreathe our toxic waste in the form of CO2 and that his speech was stumbled by God because God is not one to be mocked and that they would be judged harshly for trying to change what God had intended in order to please the governments of men. I was kicked from the meeting in less than 1 minute and received a “shepherding call” a couple weeks later. I had not done, nor said anything for which they could disfellowship me for but I was asked multiple times throughout the call whether I still wanted to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, I told them I wasn’t sure and would have to think about it. They also tried to dominate the conversation by telling me I should have said what I said to them in private and I was like “No, you all are misleading Jehovah’s people. Jehovah’s people deserve to hear how you are misleading them and make up their own minds.” To which they told me my message “upset” quite a few brothers and sisters, LoL 😂 I was like “It only upset them because they know it’s true...” I told them all I could about the vaxx, the side effects, and the satanic origin of abortions as claimed by the satanic temple. They did not want to hear it. One of them was an RN and wanted to pretend he knew everything about everything in the medical field, he was rather shocked and flustered when I knew more than him, me a stay at home mom.... he was saying the vaccine was “safe and effective” and when I asked him for proof he blew me off saying “we’re not here for that...” or “even if I had proof I wouldn’t share it with you because it’s not relevant to spiritual things...” I was like 🤨 “Right.... you’re not gonna share it because you don’t have it. If you had it you would share it because it would mean my life and well-being and you would be obligated to share such information with me, just as I am sharing my information with you. But you injected something into your bodies in complete ignorance and you will suffer the consequences. I have proof these are dangerous, I am sharing it with you because I love and care about you. But you don’t want to see it because you have already made your choice and you don’t want to consider that maybe you chose wrong and so you’re both just doubling down on stupid.” They were shocked to hear me speak like that to them because I am usually so kind and polite and quiet. They had no idea how to deal with me, LoL 😂 but after that I noticed they disabled the chat feature in Zoom, LoL just in case someone else might have an independent mind and dare to speak it publicly.

All that to illustrate that we need to be as loud and vocal as we possibly can. Forget being polite! Forget about YOUR dignity! We are here to serve God, to spread His messages. We cannot be fearful of mere men in suits who claim authority over us in the name of our Heavenly Father.
Having chat enabled was against the Watchtower Rules for Zoom meetings. They had several pages of direction on all that
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Be brave! Look into it! You have the same ability to discern good from bad as the next person. But how can you discern something which you know nothing about? I promise, reading the book of Enoch is NOT going to weaken your relationship with God. In my experience, it was quite the opposite. So many things going on now in our times begin to make so much more sense when you have the book of Enoch in your mind.
Also, scripture verifies scripture. The letter of Jude is basically quoting word for word from the book of Enoch and he also mentions the book of Enoch by name in his letter. So if the book of Enoch was not important then why would Jude quote it and mention it by name?
Dear Sister DoubleThink333, I hear you and I’m very sad at what you have had to endure. However, forcefully telling other people they need to “unload” with an argumentative confrontation isn’t balanced. I did start reading Enoch and so far it is a lot of garbage. None of the names and places match existing historical names and places like the inspired bible does. Enoch was definitely written after many of the ancient prophecies against the Jews were fulfilled and so likely it was written in the 2nd century BCE and so there is no reason it would contain names like ”Oubelseyael”, the “Watchers” and many other names and terms too numerous to mention that seem made up. It reads a lot like the book of Mormon. I already feel exhausted. I just have this one thing to say:

Romans 3:4: “Certainly not! But let God be found true, even if every man be found a liar, just as it is written: “That you might be proved righteous in your words and might win when you are being judged.

We want to “win” in the judgment not the argument.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Be brave! Look into it! You have the same ability to discern good from bad as the next person. But how can you discern something which you know nothing about? I promise, reading the book of Enoch is NOT going to weaken your relationship with God. In my experience, it was quite the opposite. So many things going on now in our times begin to make so much more sense when you have the book of Enoch in your mind.
Also, scripture verifies scripture. The letter of Jude is basically quoting word for word from the book of Enoch and he also mentions the book of Enoch by name in his letter. So if the book of Enoch was not important then why would Jude quote it and mention it by name?
You are not being accurate in what you are saying. Jude made one quote of Enoch and that is FAR from quoting from the book of Enoch.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Be brave! Look into it! You have the same ability to discern good from bad as the next person. But how can you discern something which you know nothing about? I promise, reading the book of Enoch is NOT going to weaken your relationship with God. In my experience, it was quite the opposite. So many things going on now in our times begin to make so much more sense when you have the book of Enoch in your mind.
Also, scripture verifies scripture. The letter of Jude is basically quoting word for word from the book of Enoch and he also mentions the book of Enoch by name in his letter. So if the book of Enoch was not important then why would Jude quote it and mention it by name?
So you need to tell us forum members, what you do believe. Do you believe in eternal torment in hell fire? Do you believe in the immortality of the soul? Do you believe Jesus is part of a Trinity?
 

Nomex

Well-known member
But there was A LOT more going on in Noah’s day than just eating and drinking and being given in marriage. When Jesus was alive, part of their well known and often referred to scripture included the book of Enoch, see the letter of Jude for proof of that.
I have commented a lot about the flood of Noah, and the very things you mentioned about animal hybrids. A friend of mine who is also on here that I talk to on the phone a lot when I told him the demons were likely breeding with animals too thought that somehow that was repulsive because it would require sex with animals. I asked why that would be any different for an angel to have sex with humans? I have also made public I believe what ever has been stopping them from materializing bodies will end when they are actually kicked out of heaven. "So the days of Noah" IMO, will include incarnate Demons. Perhaps they will not reveal who they are to most people, but those who have discernment will know who they are. And likely they will impersonate "aliens", as I believe that's their real agenda with all the UFO sightings etc. I have read part of the book of Enoch...
Enoch was definitely written after many of the ancient prophecies against the Jews were fulfilled and so likely it was written in the 2nd century BCE and so there is no reason it would contain names like ”Oubelseyael”, the “Watchers” and many other names and terms too numerous to mention that seem made up.
this is kind of how I felt about it, however, it was part of an oral tradition and was most likely written in the 2nd century, but I do not think it should be completely dismissed. I do not think it belongs in the Bible canon, but more than likely it does have some truths in it. @The God Pill knows more about those books than me, so maybe he'd like to comment.

Also, @DoubleThink333 I think you are spot on, the reason it was just Noah, his sons and their wives who got into the ark was because there wasn't any one left. They were either off spring of the demons, or their worshipers. Even Genesis says, "they took wives for themselves, namely all whom they chose!"

Also, I completely understand the how you feel about making public as much as possible why we feel the way we do. The thing is there are many factors why we do things or don't. I would never bother to tell my older brother any of this, because he's like I posted some where else a "very smart stupid person." It just won't do any good. He's 12 years older than me and a part of him still remembers me as that 8 year old when he got married and left home. He was bragging about how smart our father was, even that he was on a genius level, while also subtlety raises himself to that level, although with a slight caveat "I don't think any of us, (his sons) got that level of 'genius'." I have never bothered to tell him my dad said to me once, "You the only one of my sons who makes any sense."


We each have to do what is right for us under the circumstances that we find ourselves in.
 
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SusanB

Well-known member
For most of mere imperfect humans, it is enough of a task to study the accepted and inspired cannon of the bible and to focus on what upbuilds instead of titillates, such as speculating on animals hybrids. I like to focus on the reality of what will help each of us better imitate our heavenly Father and his Son and their teachings are quite different that what you will find in the book of Enoch.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
This thread was started by Sutterhome letting us know his heartfelt situation and asking for input and thoughts. And, then some comments attempt to direct the thread into a plea to read unscriptural and questionable material having nothing to do with his situation and bringing up animal hybrids, aliens and :poop:. It does make me go hmmmm!
 

DoubleThink333

Well-known member
So you need to tell us forum members, what you do believe. Do you believe in eternal torment in hell fire? Do you believe in the immortality of the soul? Do you believe Jesus is part of a Trinity?
I used to have firm answer on all of those... I would say there is definitely NOT a Trinity, scripture does not support that at all! But recently, I have found some scriptures which call into QUESTION the eternal torment in hellfire... and NO I do not believe in the immortality of the soul as the Bible clearly does not support that either.
So, I know where I stand on two out of your three questions, LoL 😂 I used to believe as all Witnesses do that “a loving God would not allow such conditions as eternal torture and torment to exist” and I still hold the hope that that is true but there are SOME scriptures which have made me wonder.... so far, the “conclusion” I have come to is that maybe eternal torment is saved for demons and other fallen angels...?? But really, who knows for sure? Unless you die and witness it yourself, how could you know? And if you’re dead, how are you going to tell your tale? I know there are lots of “Near Death Experiences” out there, but I don’t really believe any of them. “Near Death” is not dead, just near to it. We won’t be able to know for sure until we experience it and I’m not willing to believe someone else’s experience on something so significant...
 
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