When did the apostasy begin in early Christianity?

While I hold no firm opinions myself on the holy spirit presently I read twice in the past six months that 3 out of 5 evangelicals surveyed have the same impersonal force view as the watchtower society this would mean that in america over half the evangelical protestants you are likely to encountered in the field ministry are technically binitarians even though they think that they are trinitarians.

I was looking a bit into the term godhead because the odd greek word Paul used that christendon often renders Godhead is better translated in the NWT as fullness of divine quality not terribly complicated to us the pressence of the holy spirit prophesied in Isaiah that came upon Jesus at his baptism in the complete sevenfold manner it describes. In any case how did this word theotetos morph into a Trinitarian or in Mormons case tritheistic "Godhead" simple Gnosticism.

Valentinus probably the most popular gnostic leader of the 2nd century is believed to have written a few of the texts at Nag Hammadi what is found interesting is that some of the ones attributed to valentinus/valentinians are the least naseauting in that at times if only as you catch small bits of temple tradition tangentially preserved sometimes rather besides the point anyway in his "gospel of truth" if I remember right it says the son and the spirit are the mouth and tongue of the father. Given the Gnostics were obsessed with wild interpretations of pleroma the Greek word immediately preceding theotetos in Paul's letter it's not the least implausible this was a valentinian interpretation of theotetos a Godhead as a metaphor for the manner/means of the father communicating with humanity and that the catholics appropriated this with some tweaking as part of their trinitarianism the same way they appropriated some of Paul and Tertullians writings while tweaking definitions and interpretations to suit there agenda.

@White Stone I just finished aristotles politics and on the soul right now I'm reading his brief Categories I haven't finished the chapter yet but chapter 5 is on substance I remember you asked me a bit on the topic in clarifying what it meant in the trinitarian nonsense so it might help.

The God Pill said:

@White Stone I just finished aristotles politics and on the soul right now I'm reading his brief Categories I haven't finished the chapter yet but chapter 5 is on substance I remember you asked me a bit on the topic in clarifying what it meant in the trinitarian nonsense so it might help.

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Haven’t got deep yet into that but your research would be of help.

Since false teachings crept in slowly, i think you have look very early on to find the true beginning.
To drive in a wedge (metaphorically speaking) you first have to find a crack.
I think Paul provided that crack when he promoted traditions of men, customs, and his own personal opinions. (Mt 15:3, 6)

(1 Corinthians 11:2) I commend you because in all things you remember me and you are holding fast the traditions just as I handed them on to you. (Ga 1:14)

(1 Corinthians 11:16) However, if anyone wants to argue in favor of some other custom, we have no other, nor do the congregations of God.

(1 Corinthians 7:25) Now concerning virgins, I have no command from the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who had mercy shown him by the Lord to be faithful.

(1 Corinthians 7:1, 2) Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is better for a man not to touch a woman; 2 but because of the prevalence of sexual immorality, let each man have his own wife and each woman have her own husband.

(1 Corinthians 7:8) Now I say to those who are unmarried and to the widows that it is better for them if they remain as I am.

(1 Corinthians 7:38-40) So also, whoever marries does well, but whoever does not marry will do better. 39 A wife is bound as long as her husband is alive. But if her husband should fall asleep in death, she is free to be married to whomever she wants, only in the Lord. 40 But in my opinion, she is happier if she remains as she is; and I certainly think I also have God’s spirit.

(1 Corinthians 7:28) But even if you did marry, you would commit no sin. And if a virgin married, such a person would commit no sin. However, those who do will have tribulation in their flesh. But I am trying to spare you.

(1 Timothy 2:8) So I desire that in every place the men carry on prayer, lifting up loyal hands, without anger and debates.

(1 Timothy 2:12) I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man, but she is to remain silent.

Paul said:

(Philemon 8) For this very reason, though I have great freeness of speech in connection with Christ to order you to do what is proper,

But Christ said:

(Matthew 20:25-28) But Jesus called them to him and said: “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them and the great men wield authority over them. 26 This must not be the way among you;

So, no. Christ did not give Paul the authority "to order" anyone to believe what he thought was "proper".
But that is what happened.
Personal opinions and beliefs not based on Christ's teachings were promoted and eventually forced on the congregation, including the Trinity.

Paul in all likelihood went to Mount Sinai after he was cured of his blindness and was trained by Jesus in Arabia for three years. We shouldn't disrespect his letters simply because he didn't exclude opinions that were clearly identified as such or because he exercised his christ given authority as an apostle.

The temple theology book of John's gospel I'm reading weighed in on the sect of Nicolaus

"Nikolaitans active in Ephesus and Smyrna (Rev. 2.6, 15). The churches of Asia Minor received oracles in temple imagery, and so the Nikolaitans would have been the deceivers, since the Hebrew nkl means ‘deceive’, and so by implication they were disciples of Satan the Deceiver (Rev. 12.9; 20.2). A Qumran hymn describes their enemies as ‘an assembly of deceit and a horde of Belial [Satan]’,25 and their Bible commentaries refer to the Liar or the Spouter of Lies."

The God Pill said:

The temple theology book of John's gospel I'm reading weighed in on the sect of Nicolaus

"Nikolaitans active in Ephesus and Smyrna (Rev. 2.6, 15). The churches of Asia Minor received oracles in temple imagery, and so the Nikolaitans would have been the deceivers, since the Hebrew nkl means ‘deceive’, and so by implication they were disciples of Satan the Deceiver (Rev. 12.9; 20.2). A Qumran hymn describes their enemies as ‘an assembly of deceit and a horde of Belial [Satan]’,25 and their Bible commentaries refer to the Liar or the Spouter of Lies."

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The west are responding like children to Erdogan's dismissal of them..(It's known not just he but others have sided with Russia)! Blowing up the peaceful streets of Istanbul...It's tourism money is finished.....'Peace being taken away from the earth'?

MickHewitt said:

The west are responding like children to Erdogan's dismissal of them..(It's known not just he but others have sided with Russia)! Blowing up the peaceful streets of Istanbul...It's tourism money is finished.....'Peace being taken away from the earth'?

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We're definitely approaching the next world war. And the lack of peace will be more pronounced than any Era of conflict given the division among Jehovah's people enemies in one's own household etc and any divisions of populations within individual nations

MickHewitt said:

The west are responding like children to Erdogan's dismissal of them..(It's known not just he but others have sided with Russia)! Blowing up the peaceful streets of Istanbul...It's tourism money is finished.....'Peace being taken away from the earth'?

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Look how long this has been shaping western education:
"We should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly endeavoring to impede, the operations of nature in producing this mortality; and if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously (by trickery or cunning over time) encourage the other forms of destruction, which we compel nature to use. In our towns we should make the streets narrower, crowd more people into the houses and court the return of the plague."
Thomas Malthus Essay on the Principle of Population...1799

MickHewitt said:

Look how long this has been shaping western education:
"We should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly endeavoring to impede, the operations of nature in producing this mortality; and if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously (by trickery or cunning) encourage the other forms of destruction, which we compel nature to use. In our towns we should make the streets narrower, crowd more people into the houses and court the return of the plague."
Thomas Malthus Essay on the Principle of Population...1799

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So much for the Over Population Theory:

According to a theory, there is no overpopulation in the world. All 8 billion people would fit in the size of Texas with enough comfortably liveable space between them. Is overpopulation overblown by environmentalists to curb capitalism?

MickHewitt said:

Look how long this has been shaping western education:
"We should facilitate, instead of foolishly and vainly endeavoring to impede, the operations of nature in producing this mortality; and if we dread the too frequent visitation of the horrid form of famine, we should sedulously (by trickery or cunning over time) encourage the other forms of destruction, which we compel nature to use. In our towns we should make the streets narrower, crowd more people into the houses and court the return of the plague."
Thomas Malthus Essay on the Principle of Population...1799

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More Malthus:
"I should propose a regulation to be made, declaring that no child born from any marriage taking place after the expiration of a year from the date of the law and no illegitimate child born two years from the same date should ever be entitled to parish assistance ....The infant is comparatively speaking of little value to society as others will immediately supply it's place." Essay on the Principle of Population...1799

The God Pill said:

The temple theology book of John's gospel I'm reading weighed in on the sect of Nicolaus

"Nikolaitans active in Ephesus and Smyrna (Rev. 2.6, 15). The churches of Asia Minor received oracles in temple imagery, and so the Nikolaitans would have been the deceivers, since the Hebrew nkl means ‘deceive’, and so by implication they were disciples of Satan the Deceiver (Rev. 12.9; 20.2). A Qumran hymn describes their enemies as ‘an assembly of deceit and a horde of Belial [Satan]’,25 and their Bible commentaries refer to the Liar or the Spouter of Lies."

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Awesome info. That helps make sense of it. Thank you TGP.

MickHewitt said:

More Malthus:
"I should propose a regulation to be made, declaring that no child born from any marriage taking place after the expiration of a year from the date of the law and no illegitimate child born two years from the same date should ever be entitled to parish assistance ....The infant is comparatively speaking of little value to society as others will immediately supply it's place." Essay on the Principle of Population...1799

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Where else did Darwin get his theory? None other than Thomas Malthus!
"In October 1838 fifteen months after I had begun my systematic inquiry I happened to read for amusement Malthus on Population and being prepared to appreciate the struggle for existence which everywhere goes on from long continued observation of the habits of animals and plants it at once struck me that under these circumstances favourable variations would tend to be preserved and unfavourable ones to be destroyed. The result would be the formation of a new species. Here then, I had at last got a theory by which to work".
Charles Darwin's Autobiography
Don't we just see the genesis of Transhumanism in this stemming from Malthus?

MickHewitt said:

Where else did Darwin get his theory? None other than Thomas Malthus!
"In October 1838 fifteen months after I had begun my systematic inquiry I happened to read for amusement Malthus on Population and being prepared to appreciate the struggle for existence which everywhere goes on from long continued observation of the habits of animals and plants it at once struck me that under these circumstances favourable variations would tend to be preserved and unfavourable ones to be destroyed. The result would be the formation of a new species. Here then, I had at last got a theory by which to work".
Charles Darwin's Autobiography
Don't we just see the genesis of Transhumanism in this stemming from Malthus?

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We quite rightly praise Smedley Butler for his exposing deepstate corruption (plans to overthrow US with 500,000 men!) back in the Roosevelt times. Smedley had a good president. Today he would be locked up for life like Assange! Scott Ritter has had to up his profile after being placed on the Ukrainian CCD list even so his posts are deleted by YouTube daily!

kirmmy said:

Found this:

Definition of the Trinity by the Early Churches

"Did you ever wonder what the apostles' definition of the Trinity was? The early Christians claimed to know. This is an indepth but understandable look at their teaching.

www.christian-history.org

Being trinitarians you'll find plenty of BS to wade through, unfortunately. They claim that it is and was and that's what the apostles teached. That's bunk. But if you can get past that they start to talk about the "official adoption" into the church over the earlier Christian era.

I can't stomach much of this myself... You can't fix stupid and these guys have it in spades.

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When you have a base of people who don’t read the Bible, you can feed em anything and they’ll swallow it whole.

Hasn't the apostasy always been present in some sense?

Given the topic is apostasy I was going to ask how did this catholic fixation on Mary take hold in the early centuries and persist to this day. While I'm familiar with the protoevangelium of James which was likely its root as well as the many pagan madonnas covered in the two babylons I still can't fathom how they got to emphasizing her to the point of quasi worship. Entire schisms from the catholic church in the early days in part occurred because some people called Mary christ bearer rather than god bearer and the catholic church couldn't stand it.

Gaia