About 1914 C.E. ???

[Patricia]

Hi you are angry with whom. 2Pet 3:9 not Jehovah he want all to be saved so he is expressing patience. You are angry with my brothers I came along in 1973 my aunts in 1920’s they were not angry , I am not angry, so why are you, Patrica ? I was raised in the world, Satans world sounds like you were lucky. No teenage pregnancy, no drugs, sounds to me like you were blessed. So what happened?

I think I'm angry mostly because I grew up believing things that I now see were not true. I was pressured into getting baptized in'75 ,when to be quite honest, I wasn't ready to make that commitment. But THE END was coming and if I wasn't baptized I wouldn't be saved so.......
My mom was a witness, my dad was not and he was very opposed to us going door to door. Which was great for me because I was too shy and mostly hid behind my mother till I was about 10.
My dad was too lenient, mom was too strict and preachy and there was no love in our house and when I reached my teens, I was quite rebellious.
I tried alcohol and pot, wasn't impressed. Smoked cigarettes off and on for about 40 years, thus my lungs are trash but hey what can I expect. Was pregnant before I was married although he did marry me. I wish he hadn't but then again I wouldn't have had my daughter so I really wouldn't change anything. Divorced and remarried and added another kid. That makes 3 if you lost count.
I don't know if it would have made any difference if the WBTS had just stuck to the basics and hadn't been trying to put dates on things, or not. Would it have made any difference if there had been love in my house? Would there have been some love if my mom hadn't become a witness? Or if my dad had become one too? Or maybe being sexually molested when I was little was the root cause of my rebelliousness? Who's to say? I don't really blame anyone and everyone is forgiven for whatever their roll was but the fact is I made some bad choices. I am still a work in progress.
Lucky? Not so much.
Blessed? Absolutely!!!
It took far too long, but I have finally found the One who loves me - Jehovah, my abba.

 

[Sundial]

Deuteronomy 18:21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’— 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.

 

[Nomex]

Simple arithmetic means 1914 + 120ys equals 2034 CE.

"This generation will by no means pass away until all these things occur." The "new light" is, since the generation of 1914 did "by all means pass away", we now have an "over lapping generation". Can you quote the scripture where Jesus said that? And if you were honest, you'd realize that every scripture that talks about "nobody knows the day or hour not even the Christ only the Father", is talking about Christs' return. That means that "NO ONE" could calculate based on the destruction of Jerusalem, or anything else whether in the bible or not, when Jesus 2nd coming begins! Unless you think Russel understood the book of Daniel better than Jesus.

But when you make a claim and 108 years later, still nothing, you have to make things up. I'll just ignore your false equivalency to the timeline of the flood, when you're talking about Noah, who lived some 350 years after the flood and lived until he was 950 years old, more than tens times the life span of man today. Again, "nobody knows the day or hour".

 

[Nomex]

I'll just ignore your false equivalency to the timeline of the flood, when you're talking about Noah, who lived some 350 years after the flood and lived until he was 950 years old, more than tens times the life span of man today.

Oh, and if you use that math based on Noah's life span, that means 120 years, would be like 12 years to us, since Noah live ten times longer than we do!

 

[Patricia]

It actually says in your quote Aw 1969 ‘it will be well on its way toward its finish’ That remains correct. If you read Gen 6:4 it’s says 120yrs to the Flood. The Last Days of that system announced in advance. Prove to me that 1975 is wrong. Simple arithmetic means 1914 + 120ys equals 2034 CE. We continue to not to know the ‘day and hour’ but we know our God‘s views. 2Pet 3:9 “God is not slack concerning his promise’ Kjv Wycliffe cometary ‘his basic will is that all might turn from their sin unto him’ pg 999 who else other than Gods people are obeying Christs COMMAND to preach worldwide this Good News. Show Me.

Gen 6 :4 " The Nephilim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame."
I don't see any 120 yrs there.
Gen 5:32 says" And Noah got to be five hundred years old. After that Noah became father to Shem, Ham and Japheth."
Gen 7:6 says" And Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge of waters occurred on the earth."
And 7:11 says"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened."600 - more than 500= less than 100. Not 120. Is this more WT math?
There will be a brief period of time ( 1260 days? I think) from when Christ returns and appears to those whom he"chooses" as faithful and discrete, at which time they will give a final witness and then, the 🔚 . Somebody tell me if I got that wrong.

 

[LuisMerino9412]

I realize that you feel the GB are humbly serving as the Faithful slave. That's fine, we all are allowed to have our own views. Most JWs would proudly agree with you.

You mention their "flexibility" being a sign of humility. Do you believe that Christ was actually enthroned in 1914? If so, what are they being flexible with? Either it's 1914 or it's not. If not, they should be honest and tell us?

You'll excuse me, but I haven't watched the September broadcast. You mentioned that they admitted the ‘faithful slave’ will be inspected by Christ around the Great Tribulation. That would be in the future, correct? Weren't they already inspected in 1919 according to WT Tradition? I'm confused. Is there now a second inspection?

Correct me if I'm wrong but if Jehovah and Jesus are using the GB today as a channel to dispense spiritual food at the proper time, then the 1914 deception was all part of Jehovah's purpose and now he has given the "ok" for the GB to be "flexible" with the date after 100 + years of adamantly preaching a lie (which has become part of our fundamental beliefs as JWs)? Is that how the Rock, the God of truth and justice acts? He commissions a lie to be the foundational belief for the beginning his son's glorious Kingdom and then slowly "adjusts" the lie over time to fit the current circumstances when it's becoming too apparent that it is a lie?

Now, if you're going to use the excuse that Jehovah has allowed imperfect men to believe and promote their own faulty reasoning and they are simply incorrect, fine I guess I can give them the benefit of the doubt that they made a horrific blunder. Now show me where the WTBTS has ever humbly admitted they were "wrong" stating "we were wrong". And then apologized for misleading the flock due to their imperfect interpretation of scripture. Would this not be the humble, modest, discreet and correct way to act. Go ahead...I'll wait.

On the contrary, Jehovah (the God of truth) is not leading them to these faulty conclusions, he is simply allowing them to "dig their own grave" due to their arrogance and lack of modesty, discretion and humility. It's becoming apparent to many that they are fraudsters and the evidence will only continue to mount until it completely overwhelms and they are forced to confront it.

If they wanted to adjust the 1914 narrative,, they could and should have done it in 1914 or shortly thereafter when it was apparent that the prophecy was not properly fulfilled. Robert King has written and spoken extensively about the evidence against the 1914 narrative.

IMHO, the problem began when Jehovah revealed to them (the bible students) the core understandings of Bible truth because they were humble and eager enough to search for it. This was a good start. However, as imperfect humans often do, they began to get puffed up with pride, believing they were now "on a roll" and wrer granted the ability to interpret the entirety of scripture. Proof of this is in Russell's wild interpretation of prophecy in his early writings (pyramids = calculations of prophetic times, Leviathan = locomotive, etc.) followed by years of misinterpreting prophesy. Was it Jehovah's time to interpret the entirety of scripture and prophecy? Obviously not. Yet, the WT has to push ahead, motivated by a desire to remain relevant in they eyes of the flock (after all, they are the self proclaimed FFDS). This is where they went wrong. They were more concerned about their appearance before men than their approval before God. Now, in 2022 they are viewed as infallable gods before the flock and are determined to remain that way. This is why they dare not admit to a mistake. It's always "new light" or the brotherhood took it the wrong way, "false expectations of the flock" (1975). This situation was created out of their own desire to be the sole interpreter of scripture. No one else is allowed to contribute, not even their fellow "anointed" slaves.
Jehovah and Jesus did not cause this situation, they simply allowed the natural course to develop, blessing humble beginnings and establishing a foundation for the preaching of the good news. Just like the Israelites wanted a visable king. Jehovah allowed them to have their visable king and even blessed humble beginnings. We know the rest of the story. History repeats. Nothing is new under the sun.

And yes, it is Jehovah's desire that people come to know him through an accurate knowledge of his word. Basic bible truth was revealed to humble bible students and continues to be preached by humble bible students. Unfortunately, it has become mixed with false doctrinal weeds (Traditions of men). It's important that each individual Christian use discernment, as we were warned to watch out for false prophets among us. This is what we should be doing a, like the Beoreans, making sure of all things.

So, no I don't believe they are going to "flex" their way out of the 1914 deception. They own it. Just like they own all of the other presumptuous, false interpretations throughout the years. They will have to stand in judgement for their actions.

I agree with that 1914 will never be abandoned. That would provoke a collapse of all their doctrines and even their authority as the faithful slave. I think that many would leave the organization as a consequence because if 1914 is not true, that means that the faithful slave was not appointed in 1919. So, their religious authority would have no basis to stand upon. That would be like the Catholic church rejecting that Peter was the first pope. They would lose all credibility, or at least partial credibility. So, yes, dropping 1914 would be a very bad idea for the governing body.
Although people who are indoctrinated will continue to believe whatever is taught to them even if you show before their eyes that what they believe is wrong. It's horrible and incredible, but true!

 

[Nomex]

since Noah live ten times longer than we do!

It's actually more than ten times since most people do not live till their 95...but that math I wasn't willing to do!!!!! Correcting my typo's just so I seem coherent, is a choir into itself! Jeez, what do you people want?

 

[Paz]

Hi Jah Son,
when did Jesus choose a slave then ? or do you feel it will be chosen during his invisible presence yet to come with either 7 yrs or 1260days notice before Armageddon. To believe the last days last a few years is very convenient for Christians who have not bothered to preach the good news. If the watchtower is fake, who is the genuine Christian organisation? Some have said to me on another site that it’s all Christians on earth thus it’s Christendom. Your wife you say may make you watch the broadcast so maybe she has a point. On some issues I agree the watchtower has veered off course ie 2 witness rule and shunning policies connected to disfellowship policy introduced since 1952. This does not means it not Jehovahs. All it’s other policy has enhanced the brotherhood fed it and ensured the preaching commandEd by Christ is done. So my point yes it could face severe discipline from Christ on his arrival or it will set its house in order. It also has a website that is easy to use and over 1000 languages. The watchtower has claimed to be blessed by Jehovah but not inspired. Only the bible is inspired. Many misrepresent us with half truths. In some ways 1914 is correct and in others it’s not. It is not an excuse to deny the truthful ness of the slave. Satan has used covid that has hurt us more than most but Jehovah s Son Jesus Christ said ‘he that has endured to the end will be saved’. This is what your wife is endeavouring to do.
Regards P.

 

[Paz]

Man, that's all a steaming pants-load isn't it.

I too was told I didn't need an education, the end was coming. I was actually studying engineering in Uni when I started studying the Bible. I quit because my Bible teacher told me "it was the right thing to do". I threw myself into pioneering and, although it was financially rough at times, it was a noble vocation. Then I remember standing in line at a district convention for a "bethel interview". When my turn came, one of the first questions out of the Brother's mouth was; "Are you a certified refrigeration or HVAC tech?" I was a hairbreadth away from saying; "Why would I be? You're the ones that told me I didn't need an education of any sort" He then asked me if I had any education as a lawyer, if I remember correctly. That's when the cracks started showing for me. The only way into the "sanctified" bethel was with some kind of skill, for the most part. And yet, we were strongly discouraged from "worldly" education.

Even then, clown world was beginning to manifest itself...

Hi Kimmy , thats very unfortunate. Many in 1974 quickly sold up to pioneer only to find 1975 gone. I had just come along and ignored the reterick. Many elders sons get a worldly education so it shows not all follow the ‘official line’ . It was though a personal choice and at the end of the day the ‘buck falls on us’. Blaming an organisation is a bit immature. I’ve made plenty of bad mistakes some serious, but I am my own captain nobody else neither my parents or others. Some whine online about how unfair their lives were, but we can choose our own path as we move forward in life, take responsibility as adults. P.

 

[Jah-son]

Hi Kimmy , thats very unfortunate. Many in 1974 quickly sold up to pioneer only to find 1975 gone. I had just come along and ignored the reterick. Many elders sons get a worldly education so it shows not all follow the ‘official line’ . It was though a personal choice and at the end of the day the ‘buck falls on us’. Blaming an organisation is a bit immature. I’ve made plenty of bad mistakes some serious, but I am my own captain nobody else neither my parents or others. Some whine online about how unfair their lives were, but we can choose our own path as we move forward in life, take responsibility as adults. P.

I have to agree with your logic here, Paz. It definitely boils down to personal responsibility. This is the overarching message I get when I read the scriptures and it's what lead me to seek answers outside the tightly controlled narrative that WT promotes. It's why I'm here, where it's comfortable.

However, what the Organization has done is not merely a mistake IMO. I just started listening to "Crisis of Conscience" and it's an eye opener already in the first few chapters. For an organization that boldly proclaims to be the "the only channel that Jehovah is using today", they certainly have not acted "discreetly" when it comes to holding fast to the scriptures. Anyone who has been associated with WT for over a decade has come to know how quickly WT can flip on an policy, issue or prophecy. Claiming definitively that your organization is the only one being led by God is a heavy responsibility that cannot Simply Be brushed off by calling it a mistake. We all know that the R&F are expected to swallow every morsel that WT feeds us without question and assimilate it into our lives as if it's coming directly from Jehovah. If one does question, he is promptly charged with promoting disunity and dealt with through private judicial action.

Last night at the meeting for instance, an announcement was read about mask wearing. "As of Oct 1st, Mask wearing at the Kingdom Hall is no longer strongly encouraged. And we should respect the personal decisions of all." Yet, if I were to come to the KH a month ago barefaced, an uproar would have ensued, if I would have been allowed to enter at all. My personal decision most definitely would not have been respected. But now the GB have ordained the flip in policy so the R&F are expected to unquestionably obey. This is extremely dangerous and way too much power for any man or men to properly yield. They are NOT our leaders.

Matt 23: 8 "But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. 9 Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. 11 But the greatest one among you must be your minister. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."

Mark 10: 42 But Jesus called them to him and said to them: “You know that those who appear to be ruling the nations lord it over them and their great ones wield authority over them. 43 This must not be the way among you; but whoever wants to become great among you must be your minister, 44 and whoever wants to be first among you must be the slave of all."

 

[Sundial]

Hi Kimmy , thats very unfortunate. Many in 1974 quickly sold up to pioneer only to find 1975 gone. I had just come along and ignored the reterick. Many elders sons get a worldly education so it shows not all follow the ‘official line’ . It was though a personal choice and at the end of the day the ‘buck falls on us’. Blaming an organisation is a bit immature. I’ve made plenty of bad mistakes some serious, but I am my own captain nobody else neither my parents or others. Some whine online about how unfair their lives were, but we can choose our own path as we move forward in life, take responsibility as adults. P.

Whoa, not so fast. From my perspective having come into the truth in 1975 it was a sign of great spiritual weakness and - in the case of the family - bad direction from parents to encourage anything beyond yardwork and nail technician. In order to do otherwise you needed to hide it, not mention it and not miss meetings which is what I did. The wealthier brothers owned their own businesses (usually service types like office cleaning) and could do enviable things without reproach as they employed other brothers so I would not be surprised that their kids got a free pass. That said, I now see that it caused a bit of a double life in me but I wasn't born into the truth so didn't have the pressure of extended witness family members breathing threats, so I was able to sneak in a higher education including an advanced degree to help support my struggling family without skipping a beat. I truly doubt that would be easy for most of the deeply indoctrinated by the GB and I feel for them but keep mostly to myself still - unless poked

 

[kirmmy]

Hi Kimmy , thats very unfortunate. Many in 1974 quickly sold up to pioneer only to find 1975 gone. I had just come along and ignored the reterick. Many elders sons get a worldly education so it shows not all follow the ‘official line’ . It was though a personal choice and at the end of the day the ‘buck falls on us’. Blaming an organisation is a bit immature. I’ve made plenty of bad mistakes some serious, but I am my own captain nobody else neither my parents or others. Some whine online about how unfair their lives were, but we can choose our own path as we move forward in life, take responsibility as adults. P.

I don't blame the org at all. I like how everything turned out and I had the added benefit of seeing what hypocrites they were and that God wasn't blessing them back then as they were deceiving the Brothers. Of course, he's not blessing them even more today as the MoL is being manifested in the org.

 

[Medi-tator]

Hi Kimmy , thats very unfortunate. Many in 1974 quickly sold up to pioneer only to find 1975 gone. I had just come along and ignored the reterick. Many elders sons get a worldly education so it shows not all follow the ‘official line’ . It was though a personal choice and at the end of the day the ‘buck falls on us’. Blaming an organisation is a bit immature. I’ve made plenty of bad mistakes some serious, but I am my own captain nobody else neither my parents or others. Some whine online about how unfair their lives were, but we can choose our own path as we move forward in life, take responsibility as adults. P.

You are right. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me. They already fooled me once (oh no, did I just blame them for something?) but I now refuse to let them fool me again (oh good, I am taking responsibility as an adult for my choices and paths).

 

[Paz]

Gen 6 :4 " The Nephilim proved to be in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of the true God continued to have relations with the daughters of men and they bore sons to them, they were the mighty ones who were of old, the men of fame."
I don't see any 120 yrs there.
Gen 5:32 says" And Noah got to be five hundred years old. After that Noah became father to Shem, Ham and Japheth."
Gen 7:6 says" And Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge of waters occurred on the earth."
And 7:11 says"In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened."600 - more than 500= less than 100. Not 120. Is this more WT math?
There will be a brief period of time ( 1260 days? I think) from when Christ returns and appears to those whom he"chooses" as faithful and discrete, at which time they will give a final witness and then, the 🔚 . Somebody tell me if I got that wrong.

I like your black cat from paz‘s wife .🐈
Hi Patricia, my wife is a cat lover and looking for a kitten since ours was run ova.
Gen 6:3 mentions ‘his days will amount to 120yrs’ the students bible nwt connects this with 1Pet 3:20 & 2 Pet 3:9 indicating Last days.
Hi the 1260days or 3 1/2 yrs means their is an invisible presence indicated by Christ just as JWs teach just theirs starts in 1914 they claim. During this invisible presence a ‘slave’ is chosen it accomplishes the global preaching work and Christ returns to bring Armageddon, inspecting the ‘slave’ and marking the ‘sheep’ as well as sealing the ‘anointed’ . I feel it’s impossible for this period to be 7yrs or less, it was not in Noah’s day and in Apostles day it lasted 37yrs with Jerusalem’s Last days and it’s destruction in 70ce. I do agree that their an intense period as you mention leading up to Armageddon as you describe most likely to start very soon. Regards Paz 😽😻

 

[Patricia]

Paz and wife, I'm so sorry to hear about your kitty. I lost a couple that way. Outdoor kitties don't have very long lives usually. I have 2 cats now, brother and sister from 2 different litters about 5 months apart. They were both rescues from a feral colony that my mom was feeding. The one in the picture is my sweat girl, Abby.

As to the 120 years from Gen. 6:3, that has nothing to do with how old Noah lived to be. And I am not seeing the connection about the 120 years and the verses in 1&2 Peter. I'm also lost as to the 1260 days and how that means there will be an invisible presence. But no worries, I think I've got a basic understanding so that I won't be stumbled regardless of how it plays out.

Hope you find a purr-fect new kitty soon. 😺

 

[Paz]

Paz and wife, I'm so sorry to hear about your kitty. I lost a couple that way. Outdoor kitties don't have very long lives usually. I have 2 cats now, brother and sister from 2 different litters about 5 months apart. They were both rescues from a feral colony that my mom was feeding. The one in the picture is my sweat girl, Abby.

As to the 120 years from Gen. 6:3, that has nothing to do with how old Noah lived to be. And I am not seeing the connection about the 120 years and the verses in 1&2 Peter. I'm also lost as to the 1260 days and how that means there will be an invisible presence. But no worries, I think I've got a basic understanding so that I won't be stumbled regardless of how it plays out.

Hope you find a purr-fect new kitty soon. 😺

Hi, The 120yrs was a countdown to the end of the pre flood world. My point is the Last Days in our days must be much longer than 1260 days or 3 1/2 yrs as some suggest. It could though mean the final part of the end like 66ce up to 70ce of the last days of the Jewish nation, about 3 1/2 years leading up to great tribulation and Armageddon.
My wife is still searching for a kitten. Regards P.