Animalistic men in spiritual paradise?

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
No commentary on the daily text. Just part two of the consideration of the Watchtower article on spiritual paradise

dark men.jpgSpiritual paradise once really existed, at least for a short while. It existed in the literal paradise called the Garden of Eden. There were only two people who lived in the paradise park. It was a spiritual paradise because the two humans who lived there had direct access to God. It was said that Jehovah used to stroll through the garden during the breezy part of the day and he and Adam would have a chat. There was no evil. No danger of any kind, at least not until an angel decided to deceive Adam’s wife into disobeying God.

The next time God came through the garden Adam was hiding in the shrubbery. He couldn’t face God. And just like that, spiritual paradise came to an abrupt end. The last thing Jehovah said to the man is recorded at Genesis 3:17-19: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field.  In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Jehovah’s long-range purpose is to restore mankind to the spiritual relationship that briefly existed between the original humans and himself. The ransom sacrifice and resurrection of Christ have laid the legal groundwork for the redemption of our sinful, dying race. However, the restoration project will not commence until Christ returns. Jesus spoke of the restoration at Mathew 19:28, where he said to his apostles: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.”

Some translations use the term “regeneration” rather than “re-creation.” Either term is acceptable. Since Adam and Eve were only driven out of Eden after the spiritual relationship with God was ruined, the re-generation must begin with the spiritual. Again, when does this restoration take place? When the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne. This presents a problem in the form of a contradiction in the Watchtower’s eschatology since the Watchtower now claims that the Son of man has not yet sat down upon his glorious throne.

Why then does the Watchtower claim that spiritual paradise has already been restored? It has to do with the influence of Satan, the original disrupter of spiritual paradise. Just as Jehovah did not intervene to prevent the serpent from lyingly misrepresenting God, so too, Jehovah allows for an operation of Satan to influence Christians during the period immediately preceding the coming of the Son of man to sit down upon his glorious throne. The operation of Satan includes “every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved.” — 2 Thess. 2:9-10

Now let us consider some of the features of Satan’s lying signs and wonders that Jehovah’s Witnesses have embraced as the truth. Returning to the article under review, the third paragraph again cites the prophecy of Isaiah as a description of spiritual paradise and correctly explains that the re-patriated Jews fulfilled the restoration prophecy in an illustrative way. The next paragraph states:
A second fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy began in 1919 C.E. when Jehovah’s modern-day worshippers were set free from captivity to Babylon the Great. Then the spiritual paradise started to take shape throughout the earth. Zealous Kingdom proclaimers formed many congregations and produced spiritual fruitage. Men and women who once exhibited violent, animalistic tendencies “put on the new personality that was created according to God’s will.” (Eph. 4:24) Of course, many of the blessings that Isaiah described will be fulfilled literally in the future new world. But even now there are rich benefits that we are enjoying. Let us see how this spiritual paradise affects us and why we should never leave it.
First, there is no sensible reason to believe the prophecy began to be fulfilled in 1919. When the Babylonian armies conquered Judah, destroyed Jerusalem, and dragged the survivors off to far away Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar was acting as Jehovah’s executioner. The Jews’ captivity in Babylon for 70 years was punishment for all of their sins and offenses against the God with whom they were in a binding covenant.

According to the Watchtower, Christians were taken captive by Babylon the Great several centuries after Christ when Constantine adopted Christianity as the state religion of the pagan Roman Empire. While it is undoubtedly true that Constantine’s brilliant ploy brought Christianity and the Bible itself under the control of Satan’s beastly empire, there is no reason to suppose that it was punishment from God. Besides, some who were taken captive to Babylon were alive when Cyrus released the Jews and allowed them to return and rebuild Jerusalem and its temple. That hardly compares to the 17 centuries of Christendom’s domination.

Why 1919, you ask? Were not the International Bible Students already recognized as a separate and distinct sect before 1919, being set apart from the various church denominations to which most had belonged? Since the Watchtower no longer teaches that the Bible Students went into captivity to Babylon the Great during the First World War, why ought we believe that Jehovah’s modern-day worshippers were set free from spiritual captivity in 1919?

The truth is, the eruption of war in 1914 along with the prosecution of Watchtower officials, followed by the global pandemic known as the Spanish Flu, were all aspects of the lying signs and wonders Satan orchestrated to impose a deceptive influence designed to create a false kingdom and parousia—including a faux spiritual paradise.

Being a zealous Kingdom proclaimer is not proof of a spiritual paradise. Were not the first-century Christians zealous preachers and teachers? They surely were. Yet, there is no mention by any of the apostles that the congregation was a spiritual paradise.

Likewise, some of those original Christians made drastic personality changes, especially the non-Jewish converts. Yet, not all. Some still exhibited “animalistic tendencies.” Keep in mind many animals use various forms of camouflage and deception to elude or catch their prey. For example, some of the overseers of the Corinthian congregation were not even genuine Christians. They were devious phonies who only pretended to be zealous Kingdom proclaimers. The inspired apostle revealed that those whom he sarcastically dubbed as “superfine apostles” were in reality agents of Satan who cunningly pretended to be ministers of righteousness to gain the trust of naive Christians.

Paul expressed his deep concern for the spiritual welfare of the Corinthians brothers and sisters who were under the influence of these wicked men. It is most interesting that Paul evoked the Genesis account of the Devil deceiving Mother Eve in spiritual paradise when writing to the Corinthians regarding the spiritual danger that was posed by the deceivers in their midst: “But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ. For as it is, if someone comes and preaches a Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a spirit other than what you received, or good news other than what you accepted, you easily put up with him. For I consider that I have not proved inferior to your superfine apostles in a single thing.” — 2 Corinthians 11:3-5

We should not suppose that Satan the Devil no longer disguises himself as an angel of light or that his modern ministers cannot transform themselves into zealous Kingdom proclaimers. On the contrary, the letter of Jude warns us that before the coming of Christ, men will similarly infiltrate God’s people just as had the superfine apostles in Paul’s day. Jude warned us that these wicked men are elders, shepherds who feed themselves. And they feast together with unsuspecting Christians, lurking like rocks below the water. Of these Jude wrote: “These are the ones who cause divisions, animalistic men, not having spirituality.”

Since these animalistic men devoid of spirituality are appointed elders standing shoulder to shoulder with those who boast of being pure worshippers, how is it that the Watchtower claims that the residents of spiritual paradise have no animalistic tendencies? Is it a ploy of devious men to characterize animalistic characteristics as violent, as if violence was the only type of animalistic behavior?

Is it not rather the case that all of the evidence points to the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses are under the deceptive influence of men who have disguised themselves as spiritual Jews and apostles and have been deluded into believing that the Devil cannot exert any influence over those in spiritual paradise? How absolutely cunning of the Deceiver!

End of part two.

 
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C

Compliment

Guest
No commentary on the daily text. Just part two of the consideration of the Watchtower article on spiritual paradise

View attachment 5455Spiritual paradise once really existed, at least for a short while. It existed in the literal paradise called the Garden of Eden. There were only two people who lived in the paradise park. It was a spiritual paradise because the two humans who lived there had direct access to God. It was said that Jehovah used to stroll through the garden during the breezy part of the day and he and Adam would have a chat. There was no evil. No danger of any kind, at least not until an angel decided to deceive Adam’s wife into disobeying God.

The next time God came through the garden Adam was hiding in the shrubbery. He couldn’t face God. And just like that, spiritual paradise came to an abrupt end. The last thing Jehovah said to the man is recorded at Genesis 3:17-19: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field.  In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Jehovah’s long-range purpose is to restore mankind to the spiritual relationship that briefly existed between the original humans and himself. The ransom sacrifice and resurrection of Christ have laid the legal groundwork for the redemption of our sinful, dying race. However, the restoration project will not commence until Christ returns. Jesus spoke of the restoration at Mathew 19:28, where he said to his apostles: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.”

Some translations use the term “regeneration” rather than “re-creation.” Either term is acceptable. Since Adam and Eve were only driven out of Eden after the spiritual relationship with God was ruined, the re-generation must begin with the spiritual. Again, when does this restoration take place? When the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne. This presents a problem in the form of a contradiction in the Watchtower’s eschatology since the Watchtower now claims that the Son of man has not yet sat down upon his glorious throne.

Why then does the Watchtower claim that spiritual paradise has already been restored? It has to do with the influence of Satan, the original disrupter of spiritual paradise. Just as Jehovah did not intervene to prevent the serpent from lyingly misrepresenting God, so too, Jehovah allows for an operation of Satan to influence Christians during the period immediately preceding the coming of the Son of man to sit down upon his glorious throne. The operation of Satan includes “every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved.” — 2 Thess. 2:9-10

Now let us consider some of the features of Satan’s lying signs and wonders that Jehovah’s Witnesses have embraced as the truth. Returning to the article under review, the third paragraph again cites the prophecy of Isaiah as a description of spiritual paradise and correctly explains that the re-patriated Jews fulfilled the restoration prophecy in an illustrative way. The next paragraph states:

First, there is no sensible reason to believe the prophecy began to be fulfilled in 1919. When the Babylonian armies conquered Judah, destroyed Jerusalem, and dragged the survivors off to far away Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar was acting as Jehovah’s executioner. The Jews’ captivity in Babylon for 70 years was punishment for all of their sins and offenses against the God with whom they were in a binding covenant.

According to the Watchtower, Christians were taken captive by Babylon the Great several centuries after Christ when Constantine adopted Christianity as the state religion of the pagan Roman Empire. While it is undoubtedly true that Constantine’s brilliant ploy brought Christianity and the Bible itself under the control of Satan’s beastly empire, there is no reason to suppose that it was punishment from God. Besides, some who were taken captive to Babylon were alive when Cyrus released the Jews and allowed them to return and rebuild Jerusalem and its temple. That hardly compares to the 17 centuries of Christendom’s domination.

Why 1919, you ask? Were not the International Bible Students already recognized as a separate and distinct sect before 1919, being set apart from the various church denominations to which most had belonged? Since the Watchtower no longer teaches that the Bible Students went into captivity to Babylon the Great during the First World War, why ought we believe that Jehovah’s modern-day worshippers were set free from spiritual captivity in 1919?

The truth is, the eruption of war in 1914 along with the prosecution of Watchtower officials, followed by the global pandemic known as the Spanish Flu, were all aspects of the lying signs and wonders Satan orchestrated to impose a deceptive influence designed to create a false kingdom and parousia—including a faux spiritual paradise.

Being a zealous Kingdom proclaimer is not proof of a spiritual paradise. Were not the first-century Christians zealous preachers and teachers? They surely were. Yet, there is no mention by any of the apostles that the congregation was a spiritual paradise.

Likewise, some of those original Christians made drastic personality changes, especially the non-Jewish converts. Yet, not all. Some still exhibited “animalistic tendencies.” Keep in mind many animals use various forms of camouflage and deception to elude or catch their prey. For example, some of the overseers of the Corinthian congregation were not even genuine Christians. They were devious phonies who only pretended to be zealous Kingdom proclaimers. The inspired apostle revealed that those whom he sarcastically dubbed as “superfine apostles” were in reality agents of Satan who cunningly pretended to be ministers of righteousness to gain the trust of naive Christians.

Paul expressed his deep concern for the spiritual welfare of the Corinthians brothers and sisters who were under the influence of these wicked men.

It is most interesting that Paul evoked the Genesis account of the Devil deceiving Mother Eve in spiritual paradise when writing to the Corinthians regarding the spiritual danger that was posed by the deceivers in their midst: “But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ. For as it is, if someone comes and preaches a Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a spirit other than what you received, or good news other than what you accepted, you easily put up with him. For I consider that I have not proved inferior to your superfine apostles in a single thing.” — 2 Corinthians 11:3-5

We should not suppose that Satan the Devil no longer disguises himself as an angel of light or that his modern ministers cannot transform themselves into zealous Kingdom proclaimers. On the contrary, the letter of Jude warns us that before the coming of Christ, men will similarly infiltrate God’s people just as had the superfine apostles in Paul’s day. Jude warned us that these wicked men are elders, shepherds who feed themselves. And they feast together with unsuspecting Christians, lurking like rocks below the water. Of these Jude wrote: “These are the ones who cause divisions, animalistic men, not having spirituality.”

Since these animalistic men devoid of spirituality are appointed elders standing shoulder to shoulder with those who boast of being pure worshippers, how is it that the Watchtower claims that the residents of spiritual paradise have no animalistic tendencies? Is it a ploy of devious men to characterize animalistic characteristics as violent, as if violence was the only type of animalistic behavior?

Is it not rather the case that all of the evidence points to the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses are under the deceptive influence of men who have disguised themselves as spiritual Jews and apostles and have been deluded into believing that the Devil cannot exert any influence over those in spiritual paradise? How absolutely cunning of the Deceiver!

End of part two.

Sometimes they put elders in position that don't know much about their own teachings or even parts of the bible that are barely touched such as the spiritual aspect to some things.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
Sometimes they put elders in position that don't know much about their own teachings or even parts of the bible that are barely touched such as the spiritual aspect to some things.
One thing I can say is that there are many friends that haven't even read the entire bible at all & just depend on the articles & the meetings. I know this was the case for a couple of high school friends who in the end without ever reading the entire bible once left the truth.
 

Bk Kevin

Well-known member
Sometimes they put elders in position that don't know much about their own teachings or even parts of the bible that are barely touched such as the spiritual aspect to some things.

Jude1:​

11 Too bad for them, because they have gone in the path of Cain,+ and have rushed into the erroneous course of Baʹlaam+ for reward, and have perished in the rebellious talk+ of Koʹrah!+ 12 These are the rocks hidden below water in YOUR love feasts+ while they feast with YOU, shepherds that feed themselves without fear;+ waterless clouds carried this way+ and that by winds;+ trees in late autumn, [but] fruitless, having died twice, having been uprooted;+ 13 wild waves of the sea that foam up their own causes for shame;+ stars with no set course, for which the blackness of darkness stands reserved forever.+
16 These men are murmurers,+ complainers about their lot in life,* proceeding according to their own desires,+ and their mouths speak swelling things,+ while they are admiring personalities*+ for the sake of [their own] benefit.> https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/jude/1/
 

jay

Well-known member
No commentary on the daily text. Just part two of the consideration of the Watchtower article on spiritual paradise

View attachment 5455Spiritual paradise once really existed, at least for a short while. It existed in the literal paradise called the Garden of Eden. There were only two people who lived in the paradise park. It was a spiritual paradise because the two humans who lived there had direct access to God. It was said that Jehovah used to stroll through the garden during the breezy part of the day and he and Adam would have a chat. There was no evil. No danger of any kind, at least not until an angel decided to deceive Adam’s wife into disobeying God.

The next time God came through the garden Adam was hiding in the shrubbery. He couldn’t face God. And just like that, spiritual paradise came to an abrupt end. The last thing Jehovah said to the man is recorded at Genesis 3:17-19: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field.  In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Jehovah’s long-range purpose is to restore mankind to the spiritual relationship that briefly existed between the original humans and himself. The ransom sacrifice and resurrection of Christ have laid the legal groundwork for the redemption of our sinful, dying race. However, the restoration project will not commence until Christ returns. Jesus spoke of the restoration at Mathew 19:28, where he said to his apostles: “Truly I say to you, in the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will sit on 12 thrones, judging the 12 tribes of Israel.”

Some translations use the term “regeneration” rather than “re-creation.” Either term is acceptable. Since Adam and Eve were only driven out of Eden after the spiritual relationship with God was ruined, the re-generation must begin with the spiritual. Again, when does this restoration take place? When the Son of man sits down on his glorious throne. This presents a problem in the form of a contradiction in the Watchtower’s eschatology since the Watchtower now claims that the Son of man has not yet sat down upon his glorious throne.

Why then does the Watchtower claim that spiritual paradise has already been restored? It has to do with the influence of Satan, the original disrupter of spiritual paradise. Just as Jehovah did not intervene to prevent the serpent from lyingly misrepresenting God, so too, Jehovah allows for an operation of Satan to influence Christians during the period immediately preceding the coming of the Son of man to sit down upon his glorious throne. The operation of Satan includes “every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved.” — 2 Thess. 2:9-10

Now let us consider some of the features of Satan’s lying signs and wonders that Jehovah’s Witnesses have embraced as the truth. Returning to the article under review, the third paragraph again cites the prophecy of Isaiah as a description of spiritual paradise and correctly explains that the re-patriated Jews fulfilled the restoration prophecy in an illustrative way. The next paragraph states:

First, there is no sensible reason to believe the prophecy began to be fulfilled in 1919. When the Babylonian armies conquered Judah, destroyed Jerusalem, and dragged the survivors off to far away Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar was acting as Jehovah’s executioner. The Jews’ captivity in Babylon for 70 years was punishment for all of their sins and offenses against the God with whom they were in a binding covenant.

According to the Watchtower, Christians were taken captive by Babylon the Great several centuries after Christ when Constantine adopted Christianity as the state religion of the pagan Roman Empire. While it is undoubtedly true that Constantine’s brilliant ploy brought Christianity and the Bible itself under the control of Satan’s beastly empire, there is no reason to suppose that it was punishment from God. Besides, some who were taken captive to Babylon were alive when Cyrus released the Jews and allowed them to return and rebuild Jerusalem and its temple. That hardly compares to the 17 centuries of Christendom’s domination.

Why 1919, you ask? Were not the International Bible Students already recognized as a separate and distinct sect before 1919, being set apart from the various church denominations to which most had belonged? Since the Watchtower no longer teaches that the Bible Students went into captivity to Babylon the Great during the First World War, why ought we believe that Jehovah’s modern-day worshippers were set free from spiritual captivity in 1919?

The truth is, the eruption of war in 1914 along with the prosecution of Watchtower officials, followed by the global pandemic known as the Spanish Flu, were all aspects of the lying signs and wonders Satan orchestrated to impose a deceptive influence designed to create a false kingdom and parousia—including a faux spiritual paradise.

Being a zealous Kingdom proclaimer is not proof of a spiritual paradise. Were not the first-century Christians zealous preachers and teachers? They surely were. Yet, there is no mention by any of the apostles that the congregation was a spiritual paradise.

Likewise, some of those original Christians made drastic personality changes, especially the non-Jewish converts. Yet, not all. Some still exhibited “animalistic tendencies.” Keep in mind many animals use various forms of camouflage and deception to elude or catch their prey. For example, some of the overseers of the Corinthian congregation were not even genuine Christians. They were devious phonies who only pretended to be zealous Kingdom proclaimers. The inspired apostle revealed that those whom he sarcastically dubbed as “superfine apostles” were in reality agents of Satan who cunningly pretended to be ministers of righteousness to gain the trust of naive Christians.

Paul expressed his deep concern for the spiritual welfare of the Corinthians brothers and sisters who were under the influence of these wicked men.

It is most interesting that Paul evoked the Genesis account of the Devil deceiving Mother Eve in spiritual paradise when writing to the Corinthians regarding the spiritual danger that was posed by the deceivers in their midst: “But I am afraid that somehow, as the serpent seduced Eve by its cunning, your minds might be corrupted away from the sincerity and the chastity that are due the Christ. For as it is, if someone comes and preaches a Jesus other than the one we preached, or you receive a spirit other than what you received, or good news other than what you accepted, you easily put up with him. For I consider that I have not proved inferior to your superfine apostles in a single thing.” — 2 Corinthians 11:3-5

We should not suppose that Satan the Devil no longer disguises himself as an angel of light or that his modern ministers cannot transform themselves into zealous Kingdom proclaimers. On the contrary, the letter of Jude warns us that before the coming of Christ, men will similarly infiltrate God’s people just as had the superfine apostles in Paul’s day. Jude warned us that these wicked men are elders, shepherds who feed themselves. And they feast together with unsuspecting Christians, lurking like rocks below the water. Of these Jude wrote: “These are the ones who cause divisions, animalistic men, not having spirituality.”

Since these animalistic men devoid of spirituality are appointed elders standing shoulder to shoulder with those who boast of being pure worshippers, how is it that the Watchtower claims that the residents of spiritual paradise have no animalistic tendencies? Is it a ploy of devious men to characterize animalistic characteristics as violent, as if violence was the only type of animalistic behavior?

Is it not rather the case that all of the evidence points to the fact that Jehovah’s Witnesses are under the deceptive influence of men who have disguised themselves as spiritual Jews and apostles and have been deluded into believing that the Devil cannot exert any influence over those in spiritual paradise? How absolutely cunning of the Deceiver!

End of part two.

Proof in point is when the congregation elders disfellowship real spiritual brothers and sisters. You question them, as you have Robert, and Satan has you thrown out. I don't want to be in that spiritual paradise controlled by the demons.
 

Bk Kevin

Well-known member
One thing I can say is that there are many friends that haven't even read the entire bible at all & just depend on the articles & the meetings. I know this was the case for a couple of high school friends who in the end without ever reading the entire bible once left the truth.

2 Timothy3:​

5 having a form of godly devotion*+ but proving false to its power;+ and from these turn away.+ 6 For from these arise those men who slyly work their way* into households+ and lead as their captives weak women loaded down with sins, led by various desires,+ 7 always learning and yet never able to come to an accurate knowledge of truth.+> https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/2-timothy/3/#v55003007
 

Paul H

Well-known member
Dutch translation:

Pictures I used in the Dutch article:

Animalistic men in spiritual paradise?​

"And they feast together with unsuspecting Christians, lurking like rocks below the water. Of these Jude wrote: “These are the ones who cause divisions, animalistic men, not having spirituality.”
Wolf at the dinner feast table with elders wolf beest beast animalistic dierlijk tafel .jpeg

"Yet, not all. Some still exhibited “animalistic tendencies.” Keep in mind many animals use various forms of camouflage and deception to elude or catch their prey."
wolf predator in perfect camouflage misleiding dier roofdier .JPG

"Besides, some who were taken captive to Babylon were alive when Cyrus released the Jews and allowed them to return and rebuild Jerusalem and its temple."
Israelites rebuilding jerusalem and its temple israelieten joden herbouwen jeruzalem en de te...jpeg

"We should not suppose that Satan the Devil no longer disguises himself as an angel of light or that his modern ministers cannot transform themselves into zealous Kingdom proclaimers."
superfine apostles elder devil s agent superapostelen satan duivel podium schaduw shadow jw or...jpg
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Sometimes they put elders in position that don't know much about their own teachings or even parts of the bible that are barely touched such as the spiritual aspect to some things.
You’re absolutely right about this Compliment. I remember an elder being on a Bible study with me and another sister. I simply asked him if he could recall where a particular scripture was on a basic topic. He just shook his head and shrugged his shoulders.
Also, when in service I’d relate certain accounts from the Bible and most of the time the friends didn’t have any idea about it.
Most of the time they wouldn’t open the Bible to share a scripture. I noticed this, especially in more recent years.
 
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J&P

Well-known member
You’re absolutely right about this Compliment. I remember an elder being on a Bible study with me and another sister. I simply asked him if he could recall where a particular scripture was on a basic topic. He just shook his head and shrugged his shoulders.
Also, when in service I’d relate certain accounts from the Bible and most of the time the friends didn’t have any idea about it.
Most of the time they wouldn’t open the Bible to share a scripture from the Bible. I noticed this, especially in more recent years.
You are so right. The organization, in general, has dumbed-down the friends over the last couple of decades and that includes a significant number of elders. As an example, you may remember the WT study from January 1, 2007 "You Must Become Nothing but Joyful". It was a deep study; the Festivals and their significance were under consideration. It was obvious that the WT conductor had no clue as to the application of the article. Jerry leaned over and whispered "he (the conductor) has no idea what he's doing". It was an uncomfortable situation and obvious, not just to us, but to many others in the audience. Not an isolated case, either. (Phyllis)
 
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Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
You are so right. The organization, in general, has dumbed-down the friends over the last couple of decades and that includes a significant number of elders. As an example, you may remember the WT study from January 1, 2007 "You Must Become Nothing but Joyful". It was a deep study; the Festivals and their significance were under consideration. It was obvious that the WT conductor had no clue as to the application of the article. Jerry leaned over and whispered "he (the conductor) has no idea what he's doing". It was an uncomfortable situation and obvious, not just to us, but to many others in the audience. Not an isolated case, either. (Phyllis)
I can definitely believe that. I noticed this before too.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Talk about animalistic men. These men pretend to care about the sheep but could care less and certainly don’t care about your suffering.
I’ve talked before on here about having lost my husband and around the same time my daughter and elder son-in-law has shunned me for almost 2 years because I questioned the GB and as he says, “you don’t follow direction from the GB.”
Besides the 2 emergencies I had with myself being seriously sick, going in the hospital and needing help. They ignored my pleas.

Now, her grandmother, my mom is in the hospital dying of cancer. I messaged her to let her know, I got no response. I have panic attacks driving so I thought she could take me down there. No response. Just a coldness that I’ve never seen before.

I called my son-in-law’s witness grandmother who raised him and told her how I felt about their idolizing unchristian way of treating me.
It hurts my heart that my daughter use to be a loving, forgiving, compassionate and warm person. I asked his grandmother what happened to my daughter.…who influenced her to be this way.

I’m so fed up with this organization’s tyrannical ways and what they’re doing to the R&F.
Sorry about all the ranting nor am I trying to draw attention to myself but this is a distressing time for me. I know many of you will understand.
Also, maybe many of you on here can see just how viscous they can be.
 
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J&P

Well-known member
This is a distressing time for me. I know many of you will understand.
Also, maybe many of you on here can see just how viscous they can be.
No need to apologize Ms_Ladyblue. Our hearts goes out to you and the situation you're facing. Wish we didn't live so far away; however, you can still lean on us if you need a listening ear. I'll e-mail you my phone number just in case.🌺🌹🌺

We haven't experienced the shunning yet but it may be something we face in the future. No problem with our son but not sure about how our daughter would react if it comes to that. The organization knows they are getting bad press about shunning and it's hurting their pocketbook and their brand, I assume that's why they abruptly pulled the "Shunning Drama" from the 2023 Regional. Doesn't say much for their principles if they abandon them for financial advantages. (Phyllis)
 
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Carl

Well-known member
Talk about animalistic men. These men pretend to care about the sheep but could care less and certainly don’t care about your suffering.
I’ve talked before on here about having lost my husband and around the same time my daughter and elder son-in-law has shunned me for almost 2 years because I questioned the GB and as he says, “you don’t follow direction from the GB.”
Besides the 2 emergencies I had with myself being seriously sick, going in the hospital and needing help. They ignored my pleas.

Now, her grandmother, my mom is in the hospital dying of cancer. I messaged her to let her know, I got no response. I have panic attacks driving so I thought she could take me down there. No response. Just a coldness that I’ve never seen before.

I called son-in-law’s witness grandmother who raised him and told her how I felt about their idolizing unchristian way of treating me.
It hurts my heart that my daughter use to be a loving, forgiving, compassionate and warm person. I asked his grandmother what happened to my daughter.…who influenced her to be this way.

I’m so fed up with this organization’s tyrannical ways and what they’re doing to the R&F.
Sorry about all the ranting nor am I trying to draw attention to myself but this is a distressing time for me. I know many of you will understand.
Also, maybe many of you on here can see just how viscous they can be.
Even if you believe the shunning policy is loving, there’s no reason to be cruel by ghosting those you claim to love. If I was in charge I would say don’t associate/hang out with apostates and unrepentant sinners, but it’s OK to show them love with an encouraging word or a smile. When it’s your parents, I would bet Jehovah favors showing them some slack, unless they’re obnoxious apostates to the Truth, not just JWs who question the GB.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
Even if you believe the shunning policy is loving, there’s no reason to be cruel by ghosting those you claim to love. If I was in charge I would say don’t associate/hang out with apostates and unrepentant sinners, but it’s OK to show them love with an encouraging word or a smile. When it’s your parents, I would bet Jehovah favors showing them some slack, unless they’re obnoxious apostates to the Truth, not just JWs who question the GB.
Plus, lets say someone is dying & they are DF'ed. Would you let them die by not taking them to the hospital? If a person can do that then what would their reasoning be? They might as well just say that anyone who is DF'ed is to be hated & their untimely demise is an act of "god". I can see why the great betrayal will be happening & I think many of us have noticed a cooling off.
 
C

Compliment

Guest
Even if you believe the shunning policy is loving, there’s no reason to be cruel by ghosting those you claim to love. If I was in charge I would say don’t associate/hang out with apostates and unrepentant sinners, but it’s OK to show them love with an encouraging word or a smile. When it’s your parents, I would bet Jehovah favors showing them some slack, unless they’re obnoxious apostates to the Truth, not just JWs who question the GB.
To me, disfellowshipping and avoiding those who are unrepentant is scriptually accurate however disfellowshipping and avoiding those who were and are against the Governing Body decision on covid vaccines is not a sacred service to Jehovah in anyway and for that, they will be humilated for blaspheming the holy spirit on correcting them.

John 16:2-4 "Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. 4 Nevertheless, I have told you these things so that when the hour for them to happen arrives, you will remember that I told them to you."

Mark 3:29 "But whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever but is guilty of everlasting sin.”
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
To me, disfellowshipping and avoiding those who are unrepentant is scriptually accurate however disfellowshipping and avoiding those who were and are against the Governing Body decision on covid vaccines is not a sacred service to Jehovah in anyway and for that, they will be humilated for blaspheming the holy spirit on correcting them.

John 16:2-4 "Men will expel you from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone who kills you will think he has offered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. 4 Nevertheless, I have told you these things so that when the hour for them to happen arrives, you will remember that I told them to you."

Mark 3:29 "But whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever but is guilty of everlasting sin.”
Romans 10:2,3 “For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge. For because of not knowing the righteousness of God but seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.”
 
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