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Paragraph 8 was the first time I've ever been aware that there is a "per-publisher amount recommended by the branch office" —which completely upends any notions that this is voluntary, out of one's own heart.
Just as surprising was the counsel given "If current donations are not sufficient to care for existing obligations while also supporting the suggested monthly donation, please consider how the publishers may be clearly informed of the congregation's financial circumstances and tactfully reminded of their privilege of 'honoring Jehovah with their valuable things'. This "tactful" reminder could be provided by reminding the congregation that the "resolved monthly donation" is separate from the congregation's own expenses, and that parents can "help" their children to also "appreciate" supporting the organization's expenses through their own donations, as well.
It also appears (I was likewise not aware, since I don't keep up to date on the goings-on of the organization, per se) that there is an online payment system offered through the organization's official website, but encouragement to make use of this [provision] is noted in the letter.
I also found Paragraph 10 curious, with its emphasis on the use of a passkey because it "uses your device's facial recognition" and or "fingerprint recognition". In addition, "security questions" will be discontinued, effective September 1, 2026. Paragraph 15 indicates that direction on this from the organization is only for "ministerial servants, special full-time servants, and those approved to submit applications through JW Hub" and that "There is no need for these points to be announced to the congregation."
—Timothy,
a believer.
okay. The last one was my own contribution
I am a little confused by this arrangement since back in the day Witnesses always boasted that there was no collection plate passed because “You received free you give free”. How does it work now? Are publishers required to donate a certain amount each month? Sounds like Bethel is expecting a certain amount from each congregation. What happens if someone looses a job or income is someone expected to make up the difference?
What happens if someone looses a job or income is someone expected to make up the difference?
Each person still gives what they want/can. It's the congregation as a whole that is "suggested" haha, to give a certain amount per month per active publisher. Their hope is that some will donate more to make up for those that don't. At least that's how I understand it.I am a little confused by this arrangement since back in the day Witnesses always boasted that there was no collection plate passed because “You received free you give free”. How does it work now? Are publishers required to donate a certain amount each month? Sounds like Bethel is expecting a certain amount from each congregation. What happens if someone looses a job or income is someone expected to make up the difference?
After reading this thread I need some pepto bismul!![]()
Great suggestion.I hear a little wine is good for the stomach. (1 Timothy 5:23)
Not sure about Macallan Scotch tho.![]()
This arrangement came in about 2015/16. Here in the UK it started off at £3 per head and it's steadily risen since. I missed last week's meeting so didn't get to hear what the latest amount is. Basically, how it works is however much comes in, that suggested amount is taken out and sent to the Watchtower for the "worldwide work" and the rest is put into the local bank account for the bills etc. The Watchtower suggests to keep on hand 6 months worth of bills money, then anything above this amount is sent off to the Watchtower as an extra payment, which seems to happen a couple of times a year depending on how much money the local congregation has been able to donate each month. The Watchtower doesn't want too much money hanging around in the congregations bank accounts, they want it in theirs in order to do an equalising (allegedly)Paragraph 8 was the first time I've ever been aware that there is a "per-publisher amount recommended by the branch office"
I was thinking the same thing while reading the letter.Paragraph 8 was the first time I've ever been aware that there is a "per-publisher amount recommended by the branch office" —which completely upends any notions that this is voluntary, out of one's own heart.
And previous monthly announcements concerning these suggested monthly donations have always stated that if the congregation is unable to come up with the suggested amount then it's ok to lower it. This is the first time I've ever seen them say that the brothers and sisters should be guilted into coming up with the suggested amount, guilted by making us feel like we're not honouring Jehovah enough if we don't pay more.
And previous monthly announcements concerning these suggested monthly donations have always stated that if the congregation is unable to come up with the suggested amount then it's ok to lower it. This is the first time I've ever seen them say that the brothers and sisters should be guilted into coming up with the suggested amount, guilted by making us feel like we're not honouring Jehovah enough if we don't pay more.
Around 2015/16 they also changed the words to a kingdom song to brainwash us into paying more money. I'll attach the screenshots..
Yes, it's a very good analogy. The elders bear more responsibility than the general brothers and sisters because they get to see, hear and read all these crazy unchristian things the org say each month. There's usually just a short paragraph at the end to be read out. If more elders would step down or stand up for Jehovah then more brothers and sisters would get to see what's going on behind the scenes. My oldest daughter's boyfriend started "following" the org's Tick Tock and Instagram accounts to show me what will happen to brothers and sisters who start following them too. Instantly he started receiving all kinds of videos from jws and exjws, especially about CSA cases. So there's hope for other brothers and sisters yet to jump out of the pot so to speak..I don't even know what to say to these clarifications you've provided, sister.![]()
But my mind keeps going to this particular story:
Has this not been a topic on site here about PIMO and whatever the other one was? I honestly feel that these brethren simply do not know where to go if they did leave. There is no substitute for watchtower, like it or not. I think it comes under the scripture that “only terror will awaken them.” If the presence is synonymous with that, then they will have somewhere to go.Yes, it's a very good analogy. The elders bear more responsibility than the general brothers and sisters because they get to see, hear and read all these crazy unchristian things the org say each month. There's usually just a short paragraph at the end to be read out. If more elders would step down or stand up for Jehovah then more brothers and sisters would get to see what's going on behind the scenes. My oldest daughter's boyfriend started "following" the org's Tick Tock and Instagram accounts to show me what will happen to brothers and sisters who start following them too. Instantly he started receiving all kinds of videos from jws and exjws, especially about CSA cases. So there's hope for other brothers and sisters yet to jump out of the pot so to speak..
I didn't know where to go either Barney so I just kept crying, and pleading with Jehovah to show me where to go. Meanwhile, I chatted with anyone on Telegram who said they were still a JW but didn't agree with the stand the GB took in 2020/21, and, I also accessed exjws on Reddit and stood up for Jehovah when appropriate to do so, feeling sure that there must be others who felt the same as me and sure enough, there were. I was sent links to a few weird and wonderful places that didn't "suit" meHas this not been a topic on site here about PIMO and whatever the other one was? I honestly feel that these brethren simply do not know where to go if they did leave. There is no substitute for watchtower, like it or not. I think it comes under the scripture that “only terror will awaken them.” If the presence is synonymous with that, then they will have somewhere to go.
But we do have somewhere to go. The location is the Holy Spirit in its understanding, and the destination comes to us in its protection. It’s not a physical place, just as the desert was not a physical place of refuge for the Jews, but that Jehovah came to them with manna and water and eventually divided the Red Sea as an escape. Jehovah is omnipresent to all of us. He is the manipulator of all His laws, providing whatever is necessary in its due time. There is no escape from what is to come other than by Jehovah’s protection - it matters not where we are, but whether we have faith. Who would expect to find refuge from harm when being thrown into a furnace for not bowing down to an idol of the king? Yet it happened, did it not? I’m not even going to attempt to spell their names but you know the story.I didn't know where to go either Barney so I just kept crying, and pleading with Jehovah to show me where to go. Meanwhile, I chatted with anyone on Telegram who said they were still a JW but didn't agree with the stand the GB took in 2020/21, and, I also accessed exjws on Reddit and stood up for Jehovah when appropriate to do so, feeling sure that there must be others who felt the same as me and sure enough, there were. I was sent links to a few weird and wonderful places that didn't "suit" meAnd then A Watcher sent me here, where not only do I definitely "sense" Jehovah's presence but the Bible study continues, whereas it's all but come to an end in the Watchtower. It's just a pity that Satan has access to this forum too, but we can't stop that can we? He's everywhere. We've just got to endure his presence and stick close to Jehovah
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I didn't know where to go either Barney so I just kept crying, and pleading with Jehovah to show me where to go. Meanwhile, I chatted with anyone on Telegram who said they were still a JW but didn't agree with the stand the GB took in 2020/21, and, I also accessed exjws on Reddit and stood up for Jehovah when appropriate to do so, feeling sure that there must be others who felt the same as me and sure enough, there were. I was sent links to a few weird and wonderful places that didn't "suit" meAnd then A Watcher sent me here, where not only do I definitely "sense" Jehovah's presence but the Bible study continues, whereas it's all but come to an end in the Watchtower. It's just a pity that Satan has access to this forum too, but we can't stop that can we? He's everywhere. We've just got to endure his presence and stick close to Jehovah
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What really angers me is that in that elders book it actually says that from a congregation standpoint, watching CSA is NOT considered actual CSA and that the person watching it should be counselled, or even strongly counselled depending on how often they watch it!! I mean, oh my goodness, how is this ideology even allowed to exist?? The authorities know it exists as the book is often brought out into court cases. They are obviously just allowing it to exist, for some reason, what reason though? All very nefarious if you ask meVery similar to my own online journey!
I initially found jehovah-witn on Usenet back around 1998 or so, and got tired of the constant negativity and anger there. People claimed they left the organization, but the anger and rage that persisted definitely convinced me they were POMI... physically out, but mentally in.
That led to me searching for any internet forums, and that led to Hourglass2 Outpost and another one called ChannelC, hosted by Ros. Channel C had some very compelling (and sometimes heated) discussions, whereas Hourglass2 (H2O, for short) was more a one-off from the Usenet group I had left behind. However, there also was a Witness on H2O who was engaging stolidly with the rancorous crowd there, and I felt compelled to try to reach out to him via PM. I endured the initial curtness from him, and by the time H2O went offline with the Year 2K global scare, we were exchanging emails and eventually Yahoo Messenger chatting. The brother, of course, was Robert.
And we're still putting up with one another, some 25 years later, lol.
I do stop in at that exjw reddit group you mentioned, because they always seem to have some great reveals and information releases that I have brought over to this forum for discussion in a healthier context, including that recent letter covering the "donation" arrangement and per-publisher expectations.
In fact, there was one post last week on there that particularly got my ire up, regarding the organization's persistent mishandling of child sexual abuse. The post referred to the various commissions and cases, and then @PJ54 posted that daily text the very next day about the "direction" given by the organization and how everyone is to have confidence in that direction.
I couldn't help myself. I had to respond albeit I was heavy with the sarcasm! Robert, too, as a former elder, has posted extensively over the years on the travesty of this. It's just so... unconscionable!!
Anyhoo, since I was already pulling down the commission reports at the time anyhow, I figured I should also see what the latest Elder's Manual says— post-commissions (my most-recent was the 2024 edition although I have copies going all the way back to the 1997 edition when it was called "Pay Attention"). I discovered that two of the websites I've had in my bookmarks were now gone— taken down because of the Watchtower organization's legal team... but ONE website was still available and still offering all of the publications including the latest (2025) Shepherd copy*. Grabbed it, and went forward with my sarcastic post about the daily text's remark about "the direction we receive from God’s organization", citing just what that "trusted" direction is when it comes to protecting molesters over and above the harmed and devastated children of sexual abuse.
I may not have been sexually abused by a Witness (didn't even know Witnesses existed until my late teens), but as a survivor of sexual abuse, I have ZERO TOLERANCE for sexual abusers and molesters. ZERO. So, to know that the Watchtower organization actually provides sanctuary and privacy for such wickedness on a technicality of the Bible's two-witness Mosaic Law rule really stirs my righteous indignation!!!
For the record, though, I don't post over on that reddit group (I have had my fill from Usenet and H2O days), but they sure do seem to be able to dig up dirt and useful information. Just don't expect any Bible-oriented perspective or spirit-oriented context.
—Timothy,
a believer.
____________
* I still find it curious that the Elders Manual was changed from "Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock" to simply "Shepherd the Flock of God". I guess the organization no longer sees need to give "direction" that elders are to pay attention to themselves. <sarcasm mode still on>
I agree with all that you said Barney but I only really learned that from being in this forum, and actual place where Jehovah directed me to in order to continue my learning. I would never have learned these things from the Watchtower, so I definitely had to "leave somewhere (the Watchtower) and go to another place (this forum) in order to learn that we don't really have to go anywhereBut we do have somewhere to go. The location is the Holy Spirit in its understanding, and the destination comes to us in its protection. It’s not a physical place, just as the desert was not a physical place of refuge for the Jews, but that Jehovah came to them with manna and water and eventually divided the Red Sea as an escape. Jehovah is omnipresent to all of us. He is the manipulator of all His laws, providing whatever is necessary in its due time. There is no escape from what is to come other than by Jehovah’s protection - it matters not where we are, but whether we have faith. Who would expect to find refuge from harm when being thrown into a furnace for not bowing down to an idol of the king? Yet it happened, did it not? I’m not even going to attempt to spell their names but you know the story.![]()
What really angers me is that in that elders book it actually says that from a congregation standpoint, watching CSA is NOT considered actual CSA and that the person watching it should be counselled, or even strongly counselled depending on how often they watch it!! I mean, oh my goodness, how is this ideology even allowed to exist?? The authorities know it exists as the book is often brought out into court cases. They are obviously just allowing it to exist, for some reason, what reason though? All very nefarious if you ask me![]()