Bad company spoils useful habits?

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I think that the Watchtower once said that even entertainment like watching TV I think or maybe surfing on the internet could be a bad association. They were very wise saying that. I don't remember if it was a brother who said that or a magazine. I think it was a magazine many years ago.
Yes, you are right. The watchtower were announcing that the internet was a source of evil around the mid 1980s and advised everyone to avoid it. I had already left at the time, but what I do recall is that their advice was to avoid It like the plague. Of course, pretty soon they were advised of its benefits by their masters and flip-flopped to the “dark side” that they had advised us to avoid. It is the pattern of watchtower to denounce all things new - it’s history is riddled with such instances since the 1960s (mini skirt etc) and the reason is simply one of control - knowledge is power. It blossomed into the “Channel” it seems. “Stick with us. (GB) You will be alright!” The watchtower presented a haven post war for those weary of the world. I recall the feeling of having at last found a world of contentment and from the 1950s to about mid 1970s it did have a sort of inner peace, but by degrees, that has all gone now. Truth and reasoning, contentment, love - appears now as little islands known as “family”, like a cluster of buttercups in a field and all else seems suspect and something to be wary of. The kingdom is set to arise.
 
L

Liv4ever

Guest
Bad Company? The Who...? Pete Townsend is awesome but Keith Moon took it to a whole new level...
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
Yes, you are right. The watchtower were announcing that the internet was a source of evil around the mid 1980s and advised everyone to avoid it. I had already left at the time, but what I do recall is that their advice was to avoid It like the plague. Of course, pretty soon they were advised of its benefits by their masters and flip-flopped to the “dark side” that they had advised us to avoid. It is the pattern of watchtower to denounce all things new - it’s history is riddled with such instances since the 1960s (mini skirt etc) and the reason is simply one of control - knowledge is power. It blossomed into the “Channel” it seems. “Stick with us. (GB) You will be alright!” The watchtower presented a haven post war for those weary of the world. I recall the feeling of having at last found a world of contentment and from the 1950s to about mid 1970s it did have a sort of inner peace, but by degrees, that has all gone now. Truth and reasoning, contentment, love - appears now as little islands known as “family”, like a cluster of buttercups in a field and all else seems suspect and something to be wary of. The kingdom is set to arise.
I remember taking computers in school and laughing at them because they wouldn't leverage the power of the Internet. They were using it, but in a very limited sense. I thought they were nuts and could see ways they could use it to reach more people, to help the Brothers and, most importantly, to bring God's name to the fore. I was cautioned that they knew what they were doing and the Internet was from the Devil. Now look at them. If you put a camera anywhere near a GB member they'll steamroll you to get in front of it. And where do they publish it? The internet. Unfortunately the worm has turned. Now their paramour is turning against them. Their reputation is getting slaughtered on the Web. They have actually befouled God's name for all to see. Like many today, I'll bet they regret their presence on the Web. God has brought the hidden things into the light using their adopted technology. How fitting.
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member

What do you figure?

1 Corinthians 15:33 – ‘bad company’ or ‘evil communications?’​


In most Bibles, 1 Corinthians 15:33 reads something like this:
‘Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”’
This may indeed be a universal truth, but is it what the verse originally said? No. These words are actually a common mistranslation. You may have suspected this from seeing how it doesn’t flow with the rest of the argument very well.
First, consider the word variously translated as company, companionships, associating, or friends. According to ancient sources, the word does not refer to people at all, but to bad (or evil) ideas, stories, and communications.
This would make sense, because the context is Paul refuting the idea, or teaching, that the resurrection has already occurred. He is not talking about bad people, but bad talk and its logical consequences – and older Bibles seem to agree.
For example, the first Bible ever made in English (Tyndale, 1526) says:
‘Be not deceived: malicious speakings corrupt good manners.’
Also, the Aramaic version of the text clearly says communications or stories. Every English translation of the Aramaic agrees on this. For example, the Aramaic Bible in Plain English says:
Be not deceived, evil discourse corrupts pleasant minds.
The only Bibles that translate the word in a way that refers to bad people, and not bad talk, are those from the Greek. The Greek word is ομιλίαι (homilia) – which is defined in most Bible dictionaries as meaning ‘company, association’.
However, if we check the word in the Greek lexicon (which catalogs the real-world ancient uses of Greek words), we find that in ancient times it had many meanings. Yes, it included company and association, but also persuasion, instruction, and intercourse – meaning an interaction of ideas. To put it another way, talk. This matches up well with the Aramaic word. But wait, there’s more.
There is a very odd thing about the verse in Aramaic. The words seem to have a poetic, repetitive cadence, where the endings of the words seem to be deliberately matched up:
Mablan reyaneh basiymeh
shuw-yatah biy-shatah
Literally:
They/corrupt minds fair,
stories evil
This is phrased as if this is a common saying, told in the typical way that was very common in ancient times: making a slight rhyme so it’s easier to remember.
There is a good reason for this: it is a poetic quote! Indeed, it was probably a well-known one at the time. It was used by a popular ancient Greek poet, Menander. Unfortunately, most of his work was lost, and we only have fragments. So how do we know that Paul was using a quote also used by Menander? Because ancient writers tell us so.
The ancient Church historian Socrates of Constantinople reported in his book, Historia Ecclesiastica:
‘Again this sentence [of Paul], ‘Evil communications corrupt good manners,’ is a sufficient proof that he was conversant with the tragedies of Euripides.’– Book III, chapter 16, verse 114
Notice that not only does this confirm that the phrase is indeed a well-known quote, but look at how Socrates quotes it from Paul: ‘Evil communications corrupt good manners.’ He does not say ‘bad company’.
Interestingly, the Hermeneia Bible commentary series on 1 Corinthians says ‘This saying was widely known as a familiar quotation.’ Then it gives an example of its use by the 1st century BCE historian Diodorus Siculus who, speaking of Philip II of Macedon, said:
‘So, organising bands of traitors in the several cities by means of bribes and calling those who accepted his gold “guests” and “friends”, by his evil communications he corrupted the morals of the people’ –Bibliotheca Historica, 16.54.4
Do you see how it was offering bribes, and then calling these bribed people ‘friends’ – evil communications – that the people were corrupted? So it’s clear why Paul was using this common phrase, because the ‘evil’ teaching that the resurrection had already occurred was corrupting the congregation.
The second part
The second part of the phrase, usually translated as ‘good character,’ or ‘good morals’ needs to be re-examined too.
Let’s tackle the first word. The Aramaic word mostly means sweet or pleasant, and the Greek word mostly means useful, gentle, kind, or pleasant. So which is it?
Since this is a moral tale where something is corrupted, it must be the opposite beforehand, so we could collectively summarize all of these simply as good. Things that are good or can be corrupted, we don’t really speak about corrupting things that are pleasant, kind, or sweet. Also, good was the word used by Socrates of Constantinople when he quoted Paul.
But what about the second word? The Aramaic word can mean mind, thought or attitude, as well as will. The Greek word is éthos, and is where we get the word ethics. It can mean habit, manner, custom, or morals.
So, are we talking about corrupting a good mind? Or good morals? Good habits? Good manners? A good conscience? All of these?
We can immediately rule out habits, because, in our modern language, a good habit is something like brushing your teeth before bed. Good habits – as we think of them today – do not fit in the context. No longer believing in a future resurrection will not stop you brushing your teeth.
We can rule out manners for the same reason, because in modern English, good manners are things like saying please or thank you, or keeping the door open for someone behind you. This is nothing to do with being corrupted by an incorrect teaching about the resurrection!
Good conscience could fit, but when both Socrates of Constantinople and Diodorus Siculus (quoted above) used the expression, they did not say anything so specific as conscience.
So we are left with corrupting the morals or the mind. These are similar thoughts. However, corrupting your morals is the best choice for two reasons: it’s how Diodorus Siculus quoted Paul, and that’s what Paul was talking about. The previous verse said:
‘And if the dead aren’t going to be raised, and if it was just as a man that I fought wild animals at Ephesus, what good did it do me? Why not rather say, ‘Let’s eat and drink, for tomorrow we will die!’1 Corinthians 15:32
Clearly the implication is that, if this life is all there is, why not just enjoy it in an immoral way? So if people believe this false teaching about the resurrection, throw your morals to the wind, and enjoy life! Then comes the warning, that evil communications, or ideas, like that, can corrupt your good morals.
It makes perfect sense. Therefore our translation puts 1 Corinthians 15:33 as:
‘So, don’t allow [anyone] to mislead you about this… Remember that “evil communications corrupt good morals!”
This fits the context perfectly, flows extremely well, matches the ancient uses of the words, and agrees with ancient historians quoting the same expression.
Are bad companions okay?
So, are we saying that the Bible doesn’t condemn associating with bad people? No, of course not. There are numerous warnings about befriending evil people, especially in the Psalms and Proverbs. However, 1 Corinthians 15:33 is not one of them.
This verse is warning about something else: how what you believe affects your morals!
Indeed, the 20th century had a very stark example of evil beliefs causing people to lose their morals. Hitler’s beliefs in a German master race, the pseudoscience of eugenics, Nietzsche’s nihilist philosophy that life is meaningless, and Darwin’s survival of the fittest, all combined to create some of the greatest horrors ever inflicted upon humanity.

-Credits to the notes on the 2001 translation of The Holy Bible.

Now take this commentary and the Bible verse and apply it to all the absolute guano coming out of the world today (Gov, MSM, etc). Interesting, no?
In your discussion about "bad communications" "corrupting morals or the mind", I immediately thought of propaganda from TV, social media, radio, books, magazines, etc.

That's Satan's main tool for molding us into his system's way of thinking. And we can indeed "associate" with the creator of the TV program, writer, etc, by viewing or reading their thoughts. Interesting.
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
I remember taking computers in school and laughing at them because they wouldn't leverage the power of the Internet. They were using it, but in a very limited sense. I thought they were nuts and could see ways they could use it to reach more people, to help the Brothers and, most importantly, to bring God's name to the fore. I was cautioned that they knew what they were doing and the Internet was from the Devil. Now look at them. If you put a camera anywhere near a GB member they'll steamroll you to get in front of it. And where do they publish it? The internet. Unfortunately the worm has turned. Now their paramour is turning against them. Their reputation is getting slaughtered on the Web. They have actually befouled God's name for all to see. Like many today, I'll bet they regret their presence on the Web. God has brought the hidden things into the light using their adopted technology. How fitting.
I remember those days, too, when all things electronic including cells phones, were cautioned against. Now they have their own app and even encourage the use of the spy-ware Alexa!

I have come to learn that the internet was created by the military to spy on people and that Facebook was created by them to data gather intelligence in order to know how to manipulate the passes. It's absolutely free information that they can have that people post for free.

Not that I am anti-internet, but I do know that it plays a key role in the NWO goals of the "internet of things" and the "internet of bodies" which will mean complete control even over your thoughts, money and biology. It's creepy. So maybe they were right back then for cautioning us against it.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
I have come to learn that the internet was created by the military to spy on people and that Facebook was created by them to data gather intelligence in order to know how to manipulate the passes. It's absolutely free information that they can have that people post for free.
I don't know about that. Darpa developed the web but it had bright beginnings. A way to share data even when nodes were taken out in a war. It just kind of developed into so much more. People could see the potential and it was amazing. It's like any tool, it can be used for good or bad. Fallen man turns everything bad eventually. I saw the internet turned from a bright idea that promised so much to the current mess it is now. Companies and advertisers ruined it a bit. Now the government is completing the job.

Still...we are talking and sharing ideas here even though we are miles apart. Jehovah's name is being praised here to his pleasure, I hope. The good and proper use of tech like the Web, I would say.
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
I don't know about that. Darpa developed the web but it had bright beginnings. A way to share data even when nodes were taken out in a war. It just kind of developed into so much more. People could see the potential and it was amazing. It's like any tool, it can be used for good or bad. Fallen man turns everything bad eventually. I saw the internet turned from a bright idea that promised so much to the current mess it is now. Companies and advertisers ruined it a bit. Now the government is completing the job.

Still...we are talking and sharing ideas here even though we are miles apart. Jehovah's name is being praised here to his pleasure, I hope. The good and proper use of tech like the Web, I would say.
You might find this documentary interesting. I know I did:

 
Top