Baptism

[Tink]

Hello friends!

I have a spiritual question that has been deeply on my mind lately…
It is one that is of personal importance for me due to my own circumstances.

To first of all quickly sum up the question itself, here it is:

If a person was raised in the Protestant religion, therefore taught false doctrines such as the trinity, hellfire, immortal soul etc…and they were baptized in that religion with that knowledge as a “Christian” (accepting Christ as their redeemer & savior) - but then later in life, came to an accurate knowledge of the Father/Son and of important Bible truths, would they then need to be baptized again? Or would their first baptism as a “Christian” be enough in God’s eyes for salvation as one of Christ’s disciples with their new knowledge?

In my own personal feelings, it seems that accurate knowledge and baptism go hand in hand…if one were to be baptized with the false belief that Jesus is God or not even know the name of God, it’s hard for me to think that it would be considered an acceptable baptism.

But then on the other hand, the meaning of my own baptism weighs on my mind. I was raised as a JW from infancy, baptized at 12 years old.

While I know without doubt that my mother pushed for that specific age due to her own identity of being “baptized at 12” as a “3rd generation Witness”, I also believe I was a unique child of that age that was not just doing it for my parents but truly wanted to because I loved Jehovah.
I always had a deep love of Him…I remember climbing trees as a little girl looking up at the sky and talking to Jehovah just like He was my friend. I loved studying the Bible.
I was the kind of kid that would be down at the back fence at 5 years old with my witnessing bag preaching fervently to the neighbor about the paradise earth and Armageddon lol. Deep Bible prophecy like the books of Daniel & Revelation excited me… at 9 years old the Circuit Overseer used me in a demo at the Assembly to explain the prophecy at Genesis 3:15 because he was so impressed by my preaching ability in the ministry.

I express all of this to give context to my baptism as a mere child of 12. Because while I clearly had no clue what it meant to really “repent of sins” in my own innocence, I fervently loved Jehovah and Jesus and had a strong grasp on Bible truth and could preach in my own young way. I wasn’t a robot just pleasing my parents.
So I view the heart condition and motive behind my early baptism as a pure one, and I’ve always hoped Jehovah and Jesus saw it as that - because in my heart I have never changed from that 12 year old girl who simply just loved God and Truth.
But obviously I was an innocent kid who also had no clue about life, sin and truly being tested through fire as an adult.

In my later years, for sake of quick summary - I have fallen away, come back, been disfellowshipped, come back, fallen away again.. when I lost my beloved dad in death I has for the first time in my life hit with a crisis of faith.
I never stopped believing the things I had learned, but I’m ashamed to say I actually became angry with Jehovah for letting my father die - as ridiculous as that may sound. I put that down to the fact that I was not raised to ever think my loved ones would face death in this system, so I was not prepared and it hit me badly.

Then to compound that, when the Covid era came and I watched the way it was handled in the organization (pushing of the vaccine etc), it pushed me even further away. I became very angered by the injustice I watched with that. So I have been out of the organization since 2019 - not disfellowshipped, just left of my own. But the truths in my heart still remained.

Now, I won’t make this even more long-winded by telling more of my story in the last year and what’s lead me here…. Except to sum the whole thing up with this:

I’ve been married to a wonderful man for two years who was not raised as a JW, but instead is the person raised in a Protestant church that I mentioned at the outset of this in my initial question.

On his own initiative, due to things he has learned from me in the Bible these past two years, he is absolutely loving what he is learning and feels his eyes have been opened up to Truth for the first time in his life.

He’s been attending meetings at the local congregation with me even.
He is so impressed with what he’s learned that he’s even considering studying with a brother he knows. Because of a recent watchtower study on baptism, the question of baptism has now arisen.

But it also got me thinking even about my own…. Am I a hypocrite to say my own baptism as a child was more acceptable than his, when I had nothing to repent for?

I am so sorry for the long book I have written…but it is hard for me to just ask a question without adding all the context!

This subject has been one of big discussion between @TheJehuChariot and myself lately - as many of you know he is my brother

I am very much looking forward to seeing some wise, encouraging and insightful spiritual comments on this subject matter, as it will also greatly assist me in explaining more about it to my dear husband who is eagerly learning these things.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this

 

[TheJehuChariot]

Hello friends!

I have a spiritual question that has been deeply on my mind lately…
It is one that is of personal importance for me due to my own circumstances.

To first of all quickly sum up the question itself, here it is:

If a person was raised in the Protestant religion, therefore taught false doctrines such as the trinity, hellfire, immortal soul etc…and they were baptized in that religion with that knowledge as a “Christian” (accepting Christ as their redeemer & savior) - but then later in life, came to an accurate knowledge of the Father/Son and of important Bible truths, would they then need to be baptized again? Or would their first baptism as a “Christian” be enough in God’s eyes for salvation as one of Christ’s disciples with their new knowledge?

In my own personal feelings, it seems that accurate knowledge and baptism go hand in hand…if one were to be baptized with the false belief that Jesus is God or not even know the name of God, it’s hard for me to think that it would be considered an acceptable baptism.

But then on the other hand, the meaning of my own baptism weighs on my mind. I was raised as a JW from infancy, baptized at 12 years old.

While I know without doubt that my mother pushed for that specific age due to her own identity of being “baptized at 12” as a “3rd generation Witness”, I also believe I was a unique child of that age that was not just doing it for my parents but truly wanted to because I loved Jehovah.
I always had a deep love of Him…I remember climbing trees as a little girl looking up at the sky and talking to Jehovah just like He was my friend. I loved studying the Bible.
I was the kind of kid that would be down at the back fence at 5 years old with my witnessing bag preaching fervently to the neighbor about the paradise earth and Armageddon lol. Deep Bible prophecy like the books of Daniel & Revelation excited me… at 9 years old the Circuit Overseer used me in a demo at the Assembly to explain the prophecy at Genesis 3:15 because he was so impressed by my preaching ability in the ministry.

I express all of this to give context to my baptism as a mere child of 12. Because while I clearly had no clue what it meant to really “repent of sins” in my own innocence, I fervently loved Jehovah and Jesus and had a strong grasp on Bible truth and could preach in my own young way. I wasn’t a robot just pleasing my parents.
So I view the heart condition and motive behind my early baptism as a pure one, and I’ve always hoped Jehovah and Jesus saw it as that - because in my heart I have never changed from that 12 year old girl who simply just loved God and Truth.
But obviously I was an innocent kid who also had no clue about life, sin and truly being tested through fire as an adult.

In my later years, for sake of quick summary - I have fallen away, come back, been disfellowshipped, come back, fallen away again.. when I lost my beloved dad in death I has for the first time in my life hit with a crisis of faith.
I never stopped believing the things I had learned, but I’m ashamed to say I actually became angry with Jehovah for letting my father die - as ridiculous as that may sound. I put that down to the fact that I was not raised to ever think my loved ones would face death in this system, so I was not prepared and it hit me badly.

Then to compound that, when the Covid era came and I watched the way it was handled in the organization (pushing of the vaccine etc), it pushed me even further away. I became very angered by the injustice I watched with that. So I have been out of the organization since 2019 - not disfellowshipped, just left of my own. But the truths in my heart still remained.

Now, I won’t make this even more long-winded by telling more of my story in the last year and what’s lead me here…. Except to sum the whole thing up with this:

I’ve been married to a wonderful man for two years who was not raised as a JW, but instead is the person raised in a Protestant church that I mentioned at the outset of this in my initial question.

On his own initiative, due to things he has learned from me in the Bible these past two years, he is absolutely loving what he is learning and feels his eyes have been opened up to Truth for the first time in his life.

He’s been attending meetings at the local congregation with me even.
He is so impressed with what he’s learned that he’s even considering studying with a brother he knows. Because of a recent watchtower study on baptism, the question of baptism has now arisen.

But it also got me thinking even about my own…. Am I a hypocrite to say my own baptism as a child was more acceptable than his, when I had nothing to repent for?

I am so sorry for the long book I have written…but it is hard for me to just ask a question without adding all the context!

This subject has been one of big discussion between @TheJehuChariot and myself lately - as many of you know he is my brother

I am very much looking forward to seeing some wise, encouraging and insightful spiritual comments on this subject matter, as it will also greatly assist me in explaining more about it to my dear husband who is eagerly learning these things.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this

I'm just a little concerned, because IF you dont get this right, you'll be going to Hell !!!

 

[Patricia]

Wow that is a good question and I don't think there is anything within the Bible to use as an example.
Personally I don't feel the need to be re-baptized. I was a child baptism too. I definitely wasn't ready. Like you, I left, came back , left, came back, then left again.

If you have repented of everything and are now sincere about your dedication to Jehovah and you have told him so then I would think that is good enough for Him.
I was always of the belief that the dedication of a person to Jehovah was between the person and Jehovah, something done in prayer. And that the water baptism was the outward display to show others. That's what the organization teaches. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as your husband is concerned, the elders in your congregation will no doubt say that he will need to be baptized again. If he was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, biblically speaking, that seems to be sufficient. What he might need to do is dedicate himself to Jehovah in prayer. Maybe. ?? I don't know if that is something JW's made up or what. I think it's watchtower weirdness to be honest. I was just reading Acts 19:3-5 about the people Paul met that had been baptized by John the Baptist. Paul explained to them that John's baptism was of repentance and that they were to believe in the one that John said would be coming, Jesus. So after that they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. It doesn't say they were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It doesn't say they studied the Bible for a year and dedicated their life to Jehovah.
A whole lot of people in Scripture heard the gospel and were baptized the same day. So what is baptism anyway? I'll have to think on that a while.

In the end, if you and your husband want to be a part of the congregation he'll probably have to be re-baptized just because they say so. And who knows, they may think you need to too. I had one elder suggest to me that I might need to be re-baptized.
I pray you have peace of mind whatever you decide.

 

[TheJehuChariot]

Wow that is a good question and I don't think there is anything within the Bible to use as an example.
Personally I don't feel the need to be re-baptized. I was a child baptism too. I definitely wasn't ready. Like you, I left, came back , left, came back, then left again.

If you have repented of everything and are now sincere about your dedication to Jehovah and you have told him so then I would think that is good enough for Him.
I was always of the belief that the dedication of a person to Jehovah was between the person and Jehovah, something done in prayer. And that the water baptism was the outward display to show others. That's what the organization teaches. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as your husband is concerned, the elders in your congregation will no doubt say that he will need to be baptized again. If he was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, biblically speaking, that seems to be sufficient. What he might need to do is dedicate himself to Jehovah in prayer. Maybe. ?? I don't know if that is something JW's made up or what. I think it's watchtower weirdness to be honest. I was just reading Acts 19:3-5 about the people Paul met that had been baptized by John the Baptist. Paul explained to them that John's baptism was of repentance and that they were to believe in the one that John said would be coming, Jesus. So after that they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. It doesn't say they were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It doesn't say they studied the Bible for a year and dedicated their life to Jehovah.
A whole lot of people in Scripture heard the gospel and were baptized the same day. So what is baptism anyway? I'll have to think on that a while.

In the end, if you and your husband want to be a part of the congregation he'll probably have to be re-baptized just because they say so. And who knows, they may think you need to too. I had one elder suggest to me that I might need to be re-baptized.
I pray you have peace of mind whatever you decide.

What a beautiful, comprehensive, well thought out, logical and mature reply! TJC approves of this message!

 

[Tink]

Wow that is a good question and I don't think there is anything within the Bible to use as an example.
Personally I don't feel the need to be re-baptized. I was a child baptism too. I definitely wasn't ready. Like you, I left, came back , left, came back, then left again.

If you have repented of everything and are now sincere about your dedication to Jehovah and you have told him so then I would think that is good enough for Him.
I was always of the belief that the dedication of a person to Jehovah was between the person and Jehovah, something done in prayer. And that the water baptism was the outward display to show others. That's what the organization teaches. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as your husband is concerned, the elders in your congregation will no doubt say that he will need to be baptized again. If he was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus, biblically speaking, that seems to be sufficient. What he might need to do is dedicate himself to Jehovah in prayer. Maybe. ?? I don't know if that is something JW's made up or what. I think it's watchtower weirdness to be honest. I was just reading Acts 19:3-5 about the people Paul met that had been baptized by John the Baptist. Paul explained to them that John's baptism was of repentance and that they were to believe in the one that John said would be coming, Jesus. So after that they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. It doesn't say they were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It doesn't say they studied the Bible for a year and dedicated their life to Jehovah.
A whole lot of people in Scripture heard the gospel and were baptized the same day. So what is baptism anyway? I'll have to think on that a while.

In the end, if you and your husband want to be a part of the congregation he'll probably have to be re-baptized just because they say so. And who knows, they may think you need to too. I had one elder suggest to me that I might need to be re-baptized.
I pray you have peace of mind whatever you decide.

Thank you so much for this beautiful heartfelt reply Patricia Yes, I enjoy how you’ve reasoned on this…very insightful and logical based on the scriptures and given me points to meditate on. Thank you!!

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Hello friends!

I have a spiritual question that has been deeply on my mind lately…
It is one that is of personal importance for me due to my own circumstances.

To first of all quickly sum up the question itself, here it is:

If a person was raised in the Protestant religion, therefore taught false doctrines such as the trinity, hellfire, immortal soul etc…and they were baptized in that religion with that knowledge as a “Christian” (accepting Christ as their redeemer & savior) - but then later in life, came to an accurate knowledge of the Father/Son and of important Bible truths, would they then need to be baptized again? Or would their first baptism as a “Christian” be enough in God’s eyes for salvation as one of Christ’s disciples with their new knowledge?

In my own personal feelings, it seems that accurate knowledge and baptism go hand in hand…if one were to be baptized with the false belief that Jesus is God or not even know the name of God, it’s hard for me to think that it would be considered an acceptable baptism.

But then on the other hand, the meaning of my own baptism weighs on my mind. I was raised as a JW from infancy, baptized at 12 years old.

While I know without doubt that my mother pushed for that specific age due to her own identity of being “baptized at 12” as a “3rd generation Witness”, I also believe I was a unique child of that age that was not just doing it for my parents but truly wanted to because I loved Jehovah.
I always had a deep love of Him…I remember climbing trees as a little girl looking up at the sky and talking to Jehovah just like He was my friend. I loved studying the Bible.
I was the kind of kid that would be down at the back fence at 5 years old with my witnessing bag preaching fervently to the neighbor about the paradise earth and Armageddon lol. Deep Bible prophecy like the books of Daniel & Revelation excited me… at 9 years old the Circuit Overseer used me in a demo at the Assembly to explain the prophecy at Genesis 3:15 because he was so impressed by my preaching ability in the ministry.

I express all of this to give context to my baptism as a mere child of 12. Because while I clearly had no clue what it meant to really “repent of sins” in my own innocence, I fervently loved Jehovah and Jesus and had a strong grasp on Bible truth and could preach in my own young way. I wasn’t a robot just pleasing my parents.
So I view the heart condition and motive behind my early baptism as a pure one, and I’ve always hoped Jehovah and Jesus saw it as that - because in my heart I have never changed from that 12 year old girl who simply just loved God and Truth.
But obviously I was an innocent kid who also had no clue about life, sin and truly being tested through fire as an adult.

In my later years, for sake of quick summary - I have fallen away, come back, been disfellowshipped, come back, fallen away again.. when I lost my beloved dad in death I has for the first time in my life hit with a crisis of faith.
I never stopped believing the things I had learned, but I’m ashamed to say I actually became angry with Jehovah for letting my father die - as ridiculous as that may sound. I put that down to the fact that I was not raised to ever think my loved ones would face death in this system, so I was not prepared and it hit me badly.

Then to compound that, when the Covid era came and I watched the way it was handled in the organization (pushing of the vaccine etc), it pushed me even further away. I became very angered by the injustice I watched with that. So I have been out of the organization since 2019 - not disfellowshipped, just left of my own. But the truths in my heart still remained.

Now, I won’t make this even more long-winded by telling more of my story in the last year and what’s lead me here…. Except to sum the whole thing up with this:

I’ve been married to a wonderful man for two years who was not raised as a JW, but instead is the person raised in a Protestant church that I mentioned at the outset of this in my initial question.

On his own initiative, due to things he has learned from me in the Bible these past two years, he is absolutely loving what he is learning and feels his eyes have been opened up to Truth for the first time in his life.

He’s been attending meetings at the local congregation with me even.
He is so impressed with what he’s learned that he’s even considering studying with a brother he knows. Because of a recent watchtower study on baptism, the question of baptism has now arisen.

But it also got me thinking even about my own…. Am I a hypocrite to say my own baptism as a child was more acceptable than his, when I had nothing to repent for?

I am so sorry for the long book I have written…but it is hard for me to just ask a question without adding all the context!

This subject has been one of big discussion between @TheJehuChariot and myself lately - as many of you know he is my brother

I am very much looking forward to seeing some wise, encouraging and insightful spiritual comments on this subject matter, as it will also greatly assist me in explaining more about it to my dear husband who is eagerly learning these things.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this

The question that you might like to consider is: if I was baptised into a religion that is not true to the creator, does that baptism have a value?

Can one be true to what is intrinsically a lie. Or if one is deceived does that somehow make their dedication to a lie somehow worthy within the truth?

Does our own innocence in a deception, reflect a true understanding of what one has dedicated themselves to when what they have accepted is truth is actually a lie? It does not reflect that you agreed with the truth, but that you were happy with, content with, and believed something totally alien to what you now know the case to be? How could the creator of truth be satisfied with that?

Understanding of what we agree to is paramount in demonstrating its validity in our lives. Anything short of that is living a lie. How would we truly understand what is required of us if what we agree to is not true?

Baptism is of the heart. To your own heart be true. Your heart can only be true to you if it is fed upon truth. Then you will be advised as to what is true and what is a deception.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

What a beautiful, comprehensive, well thought out, logical and mature reply! TJC approves of this message!

I would love to be TJC approved! Thanks in advance!

 

[Tink]

The question that you might like to consider is: if I was baptised into a religion that is not true to the creator, does that baptism have a value?

Can one be true to what is intrinsically a lie. Or if one is deceived does that somehow make their dedication to a lie somehow worthy within the truth?

Does our own innocence in a deception, reflect a true understanding of what one has dedicated themselves to when what they have accepted is truth is actually a lie? It does not reflect that you agreed with the truth, but that you were happy with, content with, and believed something totally alien to what you now know the case to be? How could the creator of truth be satisfied with that?

Understanding of what we agree to is paramount in demonstrating its validity in our lives. Anything short of that is living a lie. How would we truly understand what is required of us if what we agree to is not true?

Baptism is of the heart. To your own heart be true. Your heart can only be true to you if it is fed upon truth. Then you will be advised as to what is true and what is a deception.

Yes, this makes sense to me.. it is exactly the lines along which my own thoughts have reasoned.
Thank you so much for sharing this with me.

 

[kenmuldoon55]

So doesn’t Jehovah consider a marriage performed in any church still legally valid and binding in His sight?
Maybe an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[Watchman]

All of Jesus' original disciples were baptized by John the Baptizer. However, after the Pentecost outpouring, when several thousand were baptized and anointed, if, for whatever reason, others who had been baptized by John were not present on that Pentecost occasion, they had to be rebaptized in the name of Jesus to receive the anointing spirit. That was the case with Apollos, who was said to be well-versed in the Scriptures. "This man had been instructed in the way of Jehovah, and aglow with the spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things about Jesus, but he was acquainted only with the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, and when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him into their company and explained the way of God more accurately to him." - Acts 18:25-26

The 19th chapter of Acts tells of another group who had to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus. It is not possible for someone who has been baptized as a Catholic or one of the thousands of Protestant sects to accurately know the Scriptures. So, their baptism could not be valid.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Yes, this makes sense to me.. it is exactly the lines along which my own thoughts have reasoned.
Thank you so much for sharing this with me.

My pleasure Tink. Glad to offer something positive for you. I hope you are getting on well in life and are finding the peace of understanding within the scripture.

 

[SusanB]

Hello friends!

I have a spiritual question that has been deeply on my mind lately…
It is one that is of personal importance for me due to my own circumstances.

To first of all quickly sum up the question itself, here it is:

If a person was raised in the Protestant religion, therefore taught false doctrines such as the trinity, hellfire, immortal soul etc…and they were baptized in that religion with that knowledge as a “Christian” (accepting Christ as their redeemer & savior) - but then later in life, came to an accurate knowledge of the Father/Son and of important Bible truths, would they then need to be baptized again? Or would their first baptism as a “Christian” be enough in God’s eyes for salvation as one of Christ’s disciples with their new knowledge?

In my own personal feelings, it seems that accurate knowledge and baptism go hand in hand…if one were to be baptized with the false belief that Jesus is God or not even know the name of God, it’s hard for me to think that it would be considered an acceptable baptism.

But then on the other hand, the meaning of my own baptism weighs on my mind. I was raised as a JW from infancy, baptized at 12 years old.

While I know without doubt that my mother pushed for that specific age due to her own identity of being “baptized at 12” as a “3rd generation Witness”, I also believe I was a unique child of that age that was not just doing it for my parents but truly wanted to because I loved Jehovah.
I always had a deep love of Him…I remember climbing trees as a little girl looking up at the sky and talking to Jehovah just like He was my friend. I loved studying the Bible.
I was the kind of kid that would be down at the back fence at 5 years old with my witnessing bag preaching fervently to the neighbor about the paradise earth and Armageddon lol. Deep Bible prophecy like the books of Daniel & Revelation excited me… at 9 years old the Circuit Overseer used me in a demo at the Assembly to explain the prophecy at Genesis 3:15 because he was so impressed by my preaching ability in the ministry.

I express all of this to give context to my baptism as a mere child of 12. Because while I clearly had no clue what it meant to really “repent of sins” in my own innocence, I fervently loved Jehovah and Jesus and had a strong grasp on Bible truth and could preach in my own young way. I wasn’t a robot just pleasing my parents.
So I view the heart condition and motive behind my early baptism as a pure one, and I’ve always hoped Jehovah and Jesus saw it as that - because in my heart I have never changed from that 12 year old girl who simply just loved God and Truth.
But obviously I was an innocent kid who also had no clue about life, sin and truly being tested through fire as an adult.

In my later years, for sake of quick summary - I have fallen away, come back, been disfellowshipped, come back, fallen away again.. when I lost my beloved dad in death I has for the first time in my life hit with a crisis of faith.
I never stopped believing the things I had learned, but I’m ashamed to say I actually became angry with Jehovah for letting my father die - as ridiculous as that may sound. I put that down to the fact that I was not raised to ever think my loved ones would face death in this system, so I was not prepared and it hit me badly.

Then to compound that, when the Covid era came and I watched the way it was handled in the organization (pushing of the vaccine etc), it pushed me even further away. I became very angered by the injustice I watched with that. So I have been out of the organization since 2019 - not disfellowshipped, just left of my own. But the truths in my heart still remained.

Now, I won’t make this even more long-winded by telling more of my story in the last year and what’s lead me here…. Except to sum the whole thing up with this:

I’ve been married to a wonderful man for two years who was not raised as a JW, but instead is the person raised in a Protestant church that I mentioned at the outset of this in my initial question.

On his own initiative, due to things he has learned from me in the Bible these past two years, he is absolutely loving what he is learning and feels his eyes have been opened up to Truth for the first time in his life.

He’s been attending meetings at the local congregation with me even.
He is so impressed with what he’s learned that he’s even considering studying with a brother he knows. Because of a recent watchtower study on baptism, the question of baptism has now arisen.

But it also got me thinking even about my own…. Am I a hypocrite to say my own baptism as a child was more acceptable than his, when I had nothing to repent for?

I am so sorry for the long book I have written…but it is hard for me to just ask a question without adding all the context!

This subject has been one of big discussion between @TheJehuChariot and myself lately - as many of you know he is my brother

I am very much looking forward to seeing some wise, encouraging and insightful spiritual comments on this subject matter, as it will also greatly assist me in explaining more about it to my dear husband who is eagerly learning these things.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read this

You already have some great answers but I wanted to thank you for a great question. Very well stated and lovely to read.

 

[Tink]

You already have some great answers but I wanted to thank you for a great question. Very well stated and lovely to read.

Thank you so much for these warm words Susan.

 

[Tink]

So doesn’t Jehovah consider a marriage performed in any church still legally valid and binding in His sight?
Maybe an apples to oranges comparison.

Thank you for sharing these thoughts! That is something to reason on too.

My only thoughts back to that case though, would be that in the case of the marriage vows themselves, there is nothing false being taught really. It is very simply just the law of a marriage vow between a man and woman set out in the scriptures by God originally. So nothing really for them to create a falsehood about.
The way I would bluntly reason, if a homosexual couple was married in a church, we would not accept that as a true marriage because it is not an acceptable one by God.
So my mind works that in the same way, if a church then baptized one under the satanic lie of teaching a person the trinity doctrine, never telling the truth that the Father has name, never telling the truth that of Gods purpose for the earth, never telling the truth of why we grow old and die, never telling the truth about Gods Kingdom etc etc…. then how can one truly be considered an acceptable Christian in the eyes of God and Jesus through their baptism? If it’s based on a lie. My mind can’t quite comprehend that.

I keep going back to the verse of John 17:3 - “This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you the only true God and the one whom you sent forth Jesus Christ…”. Taking in knowledge of truth then, right? How could that not then go hand in hand with baptism?

If baptism were merely a symbol and not really that important, then why was it of such importance to the early Christian’s? It’s obviously the outward declaration to all of the dedication that has happened inward…but from what my heart tells me, it’s clearly something very serious to Jesus and his Father.

Just my two cents!

 

[Tink]

Another thought that just came to my mind…Jesus words at Matthew 28:19,20-
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you”

These words are used together in one flowing statement by Jesus - “disciples”, “baptizing”, “teaching”. So from my point of view, accurate knowledge about the truth of Gods Word must be essentially linked to baptism.

Secondly, if Jesus says one is to be baptized “in the name of the Father” - then how could a baptism ever count when the very name of the Father is not only hidden but lied about and instead taught that it is actually Jesus who is both Father & Son? How could such a baptism ever even count under such a blasphemous lie?

Not that the poor person themselves is aware of this, they are clearly in ignorance obviously at the time. But wouldn’t it be natural then for one who suddenly realized they were baptized under such a lie, and upon learning the beautiful truth of who Jehovah and Jesus actually are - would it not just be second nature to want to be baptized anew and declare to the Universe that they are on the side of Truth?

 

[Patricia]

Does anyone here know if any of Christendom's many denominations baptized people into their specific denomination. What I mean is, is it similar to what JW's do now with the questions that you have to answer first, particularly the one that says you understand that you're baptism makes you part of the organization?
Just curious. Being born in, I have no experience with other religions except 1 wedding, 1 funeral, and one Sunday service with a friend

 

[Patricia]

Another thought that just came to my mind…Jesus words at Matthew 28:19,20-
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you”

These words are used together in one flowing statement by Jesus - “disciples”, “baptizing”, “teaching”. So from my point of view, accurate knowledge about the truth of Gods Word must be essentially linked to baptism.

Secondly, if Jesus says one is to be baptized “in the name of the Father” - then how could a baptism ever count when the very name of the Father is not only hidden but lied about and instead taught that it is actually Jesus who is both Father & Son? How could such a baptism ever even count under such a blasphemous lie?

Not that the poor person themselves is aware of this, they are clearly in ignorance obviously at the time. But wouldn’t it be natural then for one who suddenly realized they were baptized under such a lie, and upon learning the beautiful truth of who Jehovah and Jesus actually are - would it not just be second nature to want to be baptized anew and declare to the Universe that they are on the side of Truth?

I was thinking about this verse, and remembered something I heard a long time ago. That no one knows for sure if Matthew 28:19 where it says "in the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy spirit" is original or not. Some theologians believe it was added to the text around 200 AD. and was done to support a trinitarian view.

One of their arguments for their belief is that Matt. 28:19 is the only place that this formula of Father, son and holy spirit is found. All the other scriptures say to be baptized in the name of Jesus or the Lord or the anointed one.
Out of curiosity, I used the index in the 1984 NWT , and looked up all the verses under baptism, baptize, baptized, baptizing and found that to be true. That, of course, doesn't make it so. The other point that I believe I must have learned through the witnesses because who else would say it" how can you be baptized in the name of the holy spirit . The holy spirit not being a person, has no name."

John the Baptist said Jesus would baptize with holy spirit, Peter said you would receive the free gift of the holy spirit, there were some other places that mentioned being baptized in holy spirit , but no other places that say in the name of either the Father or the holy spirit.
If course, as I said before, no one knows for sure one way or the other.

There is merit to what you've been thinking about having accurate knowledge though. Most of the baptism accounts involve people who were at least somewhat familiar with the Jewish faith. So they would have known there was a difference between Almighty God and his son, the long awaited Messiah.

Go with what your conscience tells you is right. That's the important thing in this situation. If you feel that you're husband needs to be baptized again or yourself, if you are having doubts about the validity of those previous baptisms, well, it ain't gonna hurt anything to do it twice, is it?

 

[kenmuldoon55]

Another thought that just came to my mind…Jesus words at Matthew 28:19,20-
“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you”

These words are used together in one flowing statement by Jesus - “disciples”, “baptizing”, “teaching”. So from my point of view, accurate knowledge about the truth of Gods Word must be essentially linked to baptism.

Secondly, if Jesus says one is to be baptized “in the name of the Father” - then how could a baptism ever count when the very name of the Father is not only hidden but lied about and instead taught that it is actually Jesus who is both Father & Son? How could such a baptism ever even count under such a blasphemous lie?

Not that the poor person themselves is aware of this, they are clearly in ignorance obviously at the time. But wouldn’t it be natural then for one who suddenly realized they were baptized under such a lie, and upon learning the beautiful truth of who Jehovah and Jesus actually are - would it not just be second nature to want to be baptized anew and declare to the Universe that they are on the side of Truth?

You make a very good argument Tink.
Holding God in accurate knowledge is key here. Getting married and baptism truly are an apples to oranges comparison.

 

[Tink]

All of Jesus' original disciples were baptized by John the Baptizer. However, after the Pentecost outpouring, when several thousand were baptized and anointed, if, for whatever reason, others who had been baptized by John were not present on that Pentecost occasion, they had to be rebaptized in the name of Jesus to receive the anointing spirit. That was the case with Apollos, who was said to be well-versed in the Scriptures. "This man had been instructed in the way of Jehovah, and aglow with the spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things about Jesus, but he was acquainted only with the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, and when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him into their company and explained the way of God more accurately to him." - Acts 18:25-26

The 19th chapter of Acts tells of another group who had to be re-baptized in the name of Jesus. It is not possible for someone who has been baptized as a Catholic or one of the thousands of Protestant sects to accurately know the Scriptures. So, their baptism could not be valid.

Thank you so much for this response Br King. That makes perfect sense to me.

So then I have another question, which takes me full circle back to my own baptism…

Am I correct to feel that my baptism had more validity in Gods eyes than my husbands, when mine was as a 12 year old child that had never known real “sin” so therefore nothing to repent for really?
Does simply having the accurate knowledge I had at that age of Jehovah & Jesus give me the basis to say my baptism was valid?

I have always felt with confidence that even though I was young, my baptism counted more because it was done so with the knowledge of truth.
But yet later on in my life I sinned, fallen into the mire so to speak, and now I feel I fully grasp the beauty of redemption in obviously a completely different way.

I started to wonder if perhaps I am a hypocrite to tell my husband that my baptism was more acceptable than his - one based on false doctrine.

I am aware that for Jehovahs Witnesses, there is the caveat of being baptized “into the organization”. But I also am left with the complex knowledge that there is no questioning they have taught the truth when it comes to the Bible. I just do not want my reasoning on the matter to be swayed by identity.

I would greatly appreciate your wise thoughts in this matter. Hopefully I am making sense and not rambling!