Chapter 10 - The Man of Lawlessness

SusanB

Well-known member
Where can find the clip of David Splane saying 'vaccines are a gift from Jehovah'?
I stupidly got into a conversation with an elder and a pioneer sister from my former congregation, that I bumped in the town centre today.
They really tried hard to persuade me to return to the Kingdom Hall, so in the end I had to explain some of my reservations.
They claimed the footage of David Splaine saying that, must have been doctored by apostates.
They also refused to confirm or deny that vaccines were mandatory for ones wanting to attend the pioneer or elder school, which I found really strange.
They just kept saying that it was a personal decision and that the rules were to keep people safe. I found it really strange. I really didn't think they were the type to gaslight. What's going on?
As we have been taught by the Society, “people can be sincere and still be sincerely wrong.” I think it very sad that some brothers and sisters appear to think the the GB IS truth even if what they say is wrong or misleading. In other words, I suspect they think that the GB is under Jehovah’s direction and whatever they say must be accepted as uncontested truth even in the face of evidence proving it is in fact false. And, it goes to show that while they think they know Jehovah, they don’t understand that he is a God of truth, real truth and not manufactured or faux.

Exodus 34:6: “Jehovah was passing before him and declaring: “Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth”

Psalm 15:1-2: “O Jehovah, who may be a guest in your tent? Who may reside in your holy mountain? The one who is walking faultlessly, Practicing what is right And speaking the truth in his heart.

Proverbs 23:23: “Buy truth and never sell it, Also wisdom and discipline and understanding.”

Isaiah 59:4: “No one calls out for righteousness, And no one goes to court in truthfulness.They trust in unreality and speak what is worthless. They conceive trouble and give birth to what is harmful.”

Isaiah 59:13-15: “We have transgressed and denied Jehovah; We have turned our backs on our God. We have spoken of oppression and revolt; We have conceived lies and muttered false words from the heart. Justice is driven back, And righteousness stands far off; For truth has stumbled in the public square, And what is upright is unable to enter. Truth has vanished, And anyone who turns away from bad is plundered. Jehovah saw this and was displeased, For there was no justice.”
 
Last edited:

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I guess they think if they say it enough times 1) it will make it true, or 2) they'll get everyone to believe it's true.
I've been waiting to hear them say " the word of Jehovah is...... and, Jehovah said unto me....."
I mean, if they are the channel, shouldn't they be telling us what Jehovah is saying to them?
As times become rapidly more critical - Russia has just deployed nuclear missiles in Belarus , it appears that watchtower are becoming ever more irrational in their speech and thinking. All these empty quotes about how Jehovah loves his people when clearly, if the GB are His channel, Jehovah is hopelessly failing His sheep. There is no food upon the table, no learning, weird and wonderful explanations of the delay, such as “extended generations” , the vaccinations double talk - “it’s your choice” yet “no one can attend unless vaccinated”. The brethren are beginning to awaken. These lies cannot be sustained with credible explanation much longer.
 

Bk Kevin

Well-known member
As we have been taught by the Society, “people can be sincere and still be sincerely wrong.” I think it very sad that some brothers and sisters appear to think the the GB IS truth even if what they say is wrong or misleading. In other words, I suspect they think that the GB is under Jehovah’s direction and whatever they say must be accepted as uncontested truth even in the face of evidence proving it is in fact false. And, it goes to show that while they think they know Jehovah, they don’t understand that he is a God of truth, real truth and not manufactured or faux.

Exodus 34:6: “Jehovah was passing before him and declaring: “Jehovah, Jehovah, a God merciful and compassionate, slow to anger and abundant in loyal love and truth”

Psalm 15:1-2: “O Jehovah, who may be a guest in your tent? Who may reside in your holy mountain? The one who is walking faultlessly, Practicing what is right And speaking the truth in his heart.

Proverbs 23:23: “Buy truth and never sell it, Also wisdom and discipline and understanding.”

Isaiah 59:4: “No one calls out for righteousness, And no one goes to court in truthfulness. They trust in unreality and speak what is worthless. They conceive trouble and give birth to what is harmful.”

Isaiah 59:13-15: “We have transgressed and denied Jehovah; We have turned our backs on our God. We have spoken of oppression and revolt; We have conceived lies and muttered false words from the heart. Justice is driven back, And righteousness stands far off; For truth has stumbled in the public square, And what is upright is unable to enter. Truth has vanished, And anyone who turns away from bad is plundered. Jehovah saw this and was displeased, For there was no justice.”

Robert once "said the Watchtower took on a life of its own and this is true if one looks at the facts in respect to the proper worship that Jehovah requires from his people, for instance instead of protecting the Widow and the orphans they now persecute them because they speak out truth in regards to the ill Will's that was done to them and to add insult to injury the Watchtower lawyers up and gag orders these victims and then they disfellowshipped them. Talk about lawlessness...

John4:​

Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit+ and truth,+ for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him.+ 24 God is a Spirit,*+ and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth.​

 

Just woke up!

Active member
I still try to let them know that Jehovah has allowed a deceptive influence along with the truth in the organization so that we can each show if we have faith in Jehovah or if we are just following men. This situation was foretold at 1 Thessalonians 2:11. A full understanding of prophecy will be unveiled soon with the revealing of the Sons of God. The Watchtower organization is foretold to be destroyed but people of real faith will survive. It doesn’t matter if they further shun you. They will remember that you tried.
I love your reasoning Susan. Inspires me to keep trying. I have seized every opportunity now for the past 3 years to do just that. But had nearly tired out. I have had some respond. But fewer of late. I will keep on trying. Thanks for that.
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
Where can find the clip of David Splane saying 'vaccines are a gift from Jehovah'?
I stupidly got into a conversation with an elder and a pioneer sister from my former congregation, that I bumped in the town centre today.
They really tried hard to persuade me to return to the Kingdom Hall, so in the end I had to explain some of my reservations.
They claimed the footage of David Splaine saying that, must have been doctored by apostates.
They also refused to confirm or deny that vaccines were mandatory for ones wanting to attend the pioneer or elder school, which I found really strange.
They just kept saying that it was a personal decision and that the rules were to keep people safe. I found it really strange. I really didn't think they were the type to gaslight. What's going on?
David Splaning how the vaxx is a gift from God:

 

kenmuldoon55

Well-known member
I guess they think if they say it enough times 1) it will make it true, or 2) they'll get everyone to believe it's true.
I've been waiting to hear them say " the word of Jehovah is...... and, Jehovah said unto me....."
I mean, if they are the channel, shouldn't they be telling us what Jehovah is saying to them?
Did a job for a man in the advertising business once and he told me the secret to success was to throw enough manure at the wall and eventually some of it has to stick.
Sounds like WTs strategy as well.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Their own Research Guide says this:

“Research Guide says: “Do not go beyond the things that are written: This phrase is not a quote from the Hebrew Scriptures. However, it appears to have been a well-known rule or saying. This rule implies that God’s servants are not to teach anything that goes beyond the laws and principles expressed in God’s inspired Word. For example, Christians should not go beyond the limits that the Scriptures set regarding how to view themselves and others. The Corinthians had fallen into the trap of boasting in certain men, maybe Apollos and even Paul. They favored one person over the other and were creating disunity. Perhaps as an object lesson to the Corinthians, Paul had quoted the Hebrew Scriptures a number of times up to this point in his letter. He did it to support his arguments, using the phrase “it is written.”—1Co 1:19, 31; 2:9; 3:19; see also 1Co 9:9; 10:7; 14:21; 15:45.”

However, by what they have done with the vaccine, it is apparent that they have molded themselves into the same pattern of the Pharisees by seating themselves in the seat of Moses. As bad as it is and it is a huge betrayal of Jehovah, Jesus, brothers and sisters, I am still thankful it is being exposed so that we can clearly see it. The scripture below is basic but so important. Also, notice that the Pharisees wore the scripture-containing cases as though it was a safeguard. Can’t we say the same about the masks? And, now the main part of the ministry is the carts, which may be something to just be “seen by men” and often involves no spiritual discussions at all.

Matthew 23:1-12: “Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say. They bind up heavy loads and put them on the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger. All the works they do, they do to be seen by men, for they broaden the scripture-containing cases that they wear as safeguards and lengthen the fringes of their garments. They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men. But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among you must be your minister. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
Their own Research Guide says this:

“Research Guide says: “Do not go beyond the things that are written: This phrase is not a quote from the Hebrew Scriptures. However, it appears to have been a well-known rule or saying. This rule implies that God’s servants are not to teach anything that goes beyond the laws and principles expressed in God’s inspired Word. For example, Christians should not go beyond the limits that the Scriptures set regarding how to view themselves and others. The Corinthians had fallen into the trap of boasting in certain men, maybe Apollos and even Paul. They favored one person over the other and were creating disunity. Perhaps as an object lesson to the Corinthians, Paul had quoted the Hebrew Scriptures a number of times up to this point in his letter. He did it to support his arguments, using the phrase “it is written.”—1Co 1:19, 31; 2:9; 3:19; see also 1Co 9:9; 10:7; 14:21; 15:45.”

However, by what they have done with the vaccine, it is apparent that they have molded themselves into the same pattern of the Pharisees by seating themselves in the seat of Moses. As bad as it is and it is a huge betrayal of Jehovah, Jesus, brothers and sisters, I am still thankful it is being exposed so that we can clearly see it. The scripture below is basic but so important. Also, notice that the Pharisees wore the scripture-containing cases as though it was a safeguard. Can’t we say the same about the masks? And, now the main part of the ministry is the carts, which may be something to just be “seen by men” and often involves no spiritual discussions at all.

Matthew 23:1-12: “Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say. They bind up heavy loads and put them on the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger. All the works they do, they do to be seen by men, for they broaden the scripture-containing cases that they wear as safeguards and lengthen the fringes of their garments. They like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men. But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your Teacher, and all of you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among you must be your minister. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”
I remember the part that David Spane gave on one of the Broadcasts where he went into quite a long-winded detailed discussion of how they "fact checked" their resources so that everything they publish can be trusted thoroughly and we can trust that it is accurate information.

At the time, it sounded reasonable, but when that above update came out and those words came out of his mouth, he forever lost his credibility with me as did all the other GB. It is clear that they did not "fact check" this vaccine. All they said in the letter that was read out loud was "studies how shown" that those who take the vaccine "blah, blah, blah".

Now, I used to read medical studies for a living. I have binders full of them. I not only read the studies, but I read the footnoted studies that the studies referred to. I have found error after errors in these studies which is why they have the "peer review" process.

The whole reason for "peer review" is so that the scientific community can fact-check the study and see if the study was set it up well and see if the process for coming to their conclusions was sound and if the other scientists can duplicate the results or see if there were errors.

No such reference was given so that I could even read the study. The implication was "trust us". And the mantra during COVID was "trust the science". Even brothers and sisters who were doctors/nurses were brushed aside and silenced. Only the ones who agreed with what they were saying were listened to.

Uh, news flash: Science has NEVER been about trust. It's always been about questioning the results and being skeptical and asking questions. THAT is what the scientific method IS. And healthy debate and discussion is welcomed. That's what PEER REVIEW IS. That's why they have scientific JOURNALS.

It was insulting to my intelligence. One thing I've notice, especially after COVID, is how we are spoken to like children. The tone of voice is insulting. This is not how adults have conversations. It is patronizing, condescending, and demeaning. They sound like Mr. Rogers. The infantilizing process is something that a lot of the Witnesses that I know just LOVE because it makes them feel "safe" to "just trust the organization" and not have to do the deep study or thinking for themselves.

Jehovah has indeed allowed a "deluding influence" to go forth.

The one thing that has struck me on this site is how intelligent everyone is and what deep thinkers they are. It's wonderful. I feel like "iron is sharpening iron" here. In real life, I feel like I am having conversations with small children or with people with Alzheimer's.

I know that sounds stuck up, but when I have conversations with worldly people, it's not that way at all.

To be frank, it's so boring to talk with the Witnesses. And, during COVID, with the talks about "conspiracy theories and misinformation" I can't even talk about current events with them. The Zoom service groups had become so shallow and mundane that I just stopped going.

I think that's by design and it's got evil intent. And, it's 1984 thought control.

The scriptures say to love Jehovah with your WHOLE MIND. Jehovah gave us these beautiful brains with which to serve him with and which to think with.

I have come to believe that Jehovah has allowed this deluding influence to sift and test because the organization because He only wants those with a "whole heart, mind, and soul" who love him. His wisdom in all of this has clearly come to the fore and I go back and forth on whether to stay or go.

One minute, I feel compassion and want to stay and help, and the other I'm like "I'm out, I can't take this anymore". It's maddening.
 
Last edited:

SusanB

Well-known member
I remember the part that David Spane gave on one of the Broadcasts where he went into quite a long-winded detailed discussion of how they "fact check" their resources so that everything they publish can be trusted thoroughly and we can trust that it is accurate information.

At the time, it sounded reasonable, but when that above update came out and those words came out of his mouth, he forever lost his credibility with me as did all the other GB. It is clear that they did not "fact check" this vaccine. All they said in the letter that was read outloud was "studys how shown" that those who take the vaccine "blah, blah, blah".

Now, I used to read medical studies for a living. I have binders full of them. I not only read the studies, but I read the footnoted studies that the studies referred to. I found error after errors in these studies which is why they have the "peer review" process.

The whole reason for "peer review" is so that the scientific community can fact-check the study and set it up and see if the process for sound and if the other scientists can duplicate the results or see if there were errors.

No such reference was given so that I could even read the study. The implication was "trust us". And the mantra during COVID was "trust the science". Uh, news flash: Science has NEVER been about trust. It's always been about questioning the results and being skeptical and asking questions. THAT is what the scientific method IS.

It was insulting to my intelligence. One thing I've notice, especially after COVID, is how we are spoken to like children. The tone of voice is insulting. This is not how adults have conversations. It is patronizing, condescending, and demeaning. The infantilizing process is something that a lot of the Witnesses that I know just LOVE because it makes them feel "safe" to "just trust the organization" and not have to do the deep study or thinking for themselves.

Jehovah has indeed allowed a "deluding influence" to go forth.

The one thing that has struck me on this site is how intelligent everyone is and what deep thinkers they are. It's wonderful. I feel like "iron is sharpening iron" here. In real life, I feel like I am having conversations with small children or with people with Alzheimer's.

I know that sounds stuck up, but when I have conversations with worldly people, it's not that way at all.

To be frank, it's so boring to talk with the Witnesses. And, during COVID, with the talks about "conspiracy theories and misinformation" I can't even talk about current events with them. The Zoom service groups because so shallow and mundane I just stopped going.

I think that's by design and it's got evil intent. And, it's 1984 thought control.

The scriptures say to love Jehovah with your WHOLE MIND. Jehovah gave us these beautiful brains with which to serve him with and which to think with.

I have come to believe that Jehovah has allowed this deluding influence to sift and test because He only wants those with a "whole heart, mind, and soul" who love him. His wisdom in all of this has clearly come to the fore and I go back and forth on whether to stay or go.

One minute, I feel compassion and want to stay and help, and the other I'm like "I'm out, I can't take this anymore". It's maddening.
Anytime someone says “you can trust us” the way that Lett and the GB have done, you know they are scamming you. I think it goes much further than not researching the vaccine. The scriptures say they sell the sheep. I have no proof but the fact that they are still doing it says a lot to me.
 
K

KevinB

Guest
Somehow I think this topic will get a lot of comments, but we shall see. Let me start with quoting 2 Thessalonians 2:1-5: “However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. Let no one lead you astray in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction. He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publicly showing himself to be a god. Do you not remember that when I was still with you, I used to tell you these things?”

Based on the teaching from the Watchtower, I was previously pretty confident that the “man of lawlessness” was the clergy of Christendom. I was wrong and now it is so easy to break down this scripture to find the proof that the man of lawlessness must come from Christ’s true congregation and they appear to be anointed ones. Here is a quote from Robert King in Chapter 9: “The fact that the context of Paul’s warning strongly suggests that the man of lawlessness is the source of the seemingly inspired messages heralding that the “day of Jehovah is here” should give Jehovah’s Witnesses reason to cautiously pause.

When I read Robert King’s book, one thing I think I recall that he said regarding the term “lawlessness” is that it is always used in regarding to spiritual lawlessness. Someone correct me if I’m wrong. In the NWT I found the word “lawlessness” only 11 times and each time it did apply to being the opposite of righteousness and to be describing sinning against Jehovah.

1 John 3:4: “Everyone who practices sin is also practicing lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.”

Now with this understanding of lawlessness and how it is connected with sinning against Jehovah, this scriptures is more in focus.

Matthew 24:11-12: “Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold.”

Then there is this paradox:


hope it's inspirational
 

Nomex

Well-known member
Anytime someone says “you can trust us”
This is why I say they sound like used car salesmen.
Science has NEVER been about trust. It's always been about questioning the results and being skeptical and asking questions.
This was always going to end only one way for me. Even with the fact that science involves lots of questions, it is still heavily influenced by the indoctrination from the "medical community". I have written about how if you just dissect the words they use, like "Doctor" or "doctorate" it's very eye opening. What is the root word on "indoctrination." Well, it's doctor. This is also the problem with standardized medicine and doctorate in general. To get a "doctorate" you literally have to be indoctrinated. The reason "alternative" medicine get's no traction these days, is because these same people control the information, and they are unbelievable arrogant. If a medical doctor tells someone there's no help for them and they get help from a Naturopathic doctor, the medical doctor not only doesn't want to know how the person was helps he doesn't want it spread, because it destroys their credibility.


In the same vein, similarly, the GB doesn't want anyone asking any questions, because that also destroys their credibility.
 
Top