Chapter 25 - Revelation

SusanB

Well-known member
Here is the link to the written and audio chapter, http://jehovah-is-king.com/revelation/

It’s amazing to me that I started this review on December 9, 2022 and so its been over a year that we have been discussing each chapter. Now we are at Chapter 25, but it is not the last chapter, because the Epilogue also deserves some consideration. I’ll just start with a quote to kick off this chapter on Revelation. Just think about the fact that we may have the privilege to be eye-witnesses of the day of our Lord Jesus Christ! Although he will appear to the faithful anointed ones, we in turn will see and recognize the Chosen Ones. We won’t need a mini-series to explain it to us.

“‘A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him,
To show his slaves the things that must shortly take place.’
-Revelation 1:1-


The opening words of Revelation locate the events as taking place during “the Lord’s day.” That is why John states: “by inspiration I came to be in the Lord’s day.” As presented in chapter five, the Lord’s day is the future manifestation, or revelation of Jesus, as Paul indicated when he wrote: “While you are eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ. He will also make you firm to the end, that you may be open to no accusation in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom you were called into a sharing with his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.” (I Corinthians 1:7-9)

The dramatic unsealing of each of the seven seals of the sacred scroll of Revelation sets into motion irreversible events associated with Christ receiving his glorious Kingdom crown. The opening of the first four seals unleashes the so-called four horsemen of the Apocalypse, plunging the world into war, pestilence and famine. As has been established in this publication, these are future events. This is especially evident in connection with the opening of the sixth seal depicting the symbolic heavenly luminaries being snuffed out, which symbolism Jesus also employed to describe the earth-shaking events associated with what the Lord called a great tribulation unlike any calamity that has ever occurred or ever will occur. Since the great tribulation has not begun yet, what about the opening of the final seal— the seventh seal? What might those apocalyptic symbolisms betoken?
 

SusanB

Well-known member
In Chapter 25, Robert King mentions the”axiom that the judgement starts with the house of God”. I wanted to quote a couple of scriptures on that. I think the scriptures explain themselves. In the following post I’ll quote Robert King’s book because when I read his book, this is one of the most eye-opening points in my opinion.

1 Peter 4:17: “For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?”

Malachi 3:1-4: “Look! I am sending my messenger, and he will clear up a way before me. And suddenly the true Lord, whom you are seeking, will come to his temple; and the messenger of the covenant will come, in whom you take delight. Look! He will certainly come,” says Jehovah of armies. “But who will endure the day of his coming, and who will be able to stand when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen. And he will sit as a refiner and cleanser of silver and will cleanse the sons of Leʹvi; and he will clarify them like gold and like silver, and they will certainly become to Jehovah people presenting a gift offering in righteousness. And the gift offering of Judah and of Jerusalem will actually be pleasing to Jehovah, as in the days of long ago and as in the years of antiquity.”

Malachi 3:13-18: “Your words against me have been strong,” says Jehovah. And you say: “How have we spoken against you among ourselves?” “You say, ‘It is of no value to serve God. How have we benefited by keeping our obligations to him and by walking somberly before Jehovah of armies? Now we consider presumptuous people happy. Also, those who practice wickedness are successful. They dare to put God to the test and get away with it.’” At that time those who fear Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance was written before him for those fearing Jehovah and for those meditating on his name. “And they will be mine,” says Jehovah of armies, “in the day when I produce a special property. I will show them compassion, just as a man shows compassion to his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between a righteous person and a wicked person, between one serving God and one not serving him.”
 

SusanB

Well-known member
From Robert King’s book, Chapter 25, subheading “Do Not Harm the Earth Or Sea or the Trees”

After the opening of the sixth seal, the vision depicts four angels standing upon the four corners of the earth, holding tight the four winds of destruction. And the angels are commanded: “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the slaves of our God in their foreheads.” Next, though, after the sealing takes place, the seventh and final seal is broken and the blowing of the first trumpet initiates the destruction of a substantial portion of the earth, sea and trees. Hence, we read: “And the first one blew his trumpet. And there occurred a hail and fire mingled with blood, and it was hurled to the earth; and a third of the earth was burned up, and a third of the trees was burned up, and all the green vegetation was burned up.” (Revelation 8:7)

Prior to the unsealing of the last seal, the angels had been commanded not to harm the earth, sea or trees until the sealing had been accomplished. But the judgments contained in the seventh seal are to be executed against the earth, sea and trees. What do these symbols represent? A significant clue may be found in the last verse of the eight chapter of Revelation, which reads: “Woe, woe, woe to those dwelling on the earth because of the rest of the trumpet blasts of the three angels who are about to blow their trumpets!”

In view of the fact that the “rest of the trumpet blasts”— specifically the fifth, sixth and seventh trumpets— result in “woe, woe, woe to those dwelling on the earth”— three woes associated with the last three trumpet blasts— the question arises: why do not the first four trumpets similarly result in woe for the peoples of the earth? The answer is: The first four judgments heralded by the angelic trumpeters are not directed against the “peoples dwelling on the earth”— that is to say, those who are not recognized as being in association with God’s earthly organization. The first four trumpets herald God’s judgments upon his organization. That is in harmony with the axiom that the judgment starts with the house of God.”
 

Medi-tator

Well-known member
The other sheep will have an idea that something is up prehaps.
Yes absolutely, when they (the other sheep) see the clear evidence that Christ has manifested himself to his anointed and sealed them. That way we are able to "you did it to the least of these my brothers" and help those Two Witnesses do their thing. "The righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their father", thus some will recognize the kingdom that way? But because they are only a small remnant, maybe if you are living off the grid in KiwiLand one of them may not come knocking on your log cabin. But at last count we have 4 who claim they are invited in our humble little Hawaiian congregation alone. Maybe they are the ones who are mentally ill LOL? But in any case, we are looking forward to aiding those sealed ones when they are naked and/or hungry. That is called "eye-witness of the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" my brother.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
In my viewpoint, the impact of this statement changes my understanding by a lot. When I read it, its an “of course!” moment. This is referring to discerning that the first four trumpets herald God’s judgments upon his organization.

This is also discernible by reason of the fact that both the accomplished sealing of the Israel of God and the gathering of the great crowd who are destined to “come out of the great tribulation” are presented in context as taking place immediately before the opening of the seventh seal. At that point, before the opening of the seventh seal, the door to salvation is officially closed. Everyone who is going to inherit salvation is then either a sealed spiritual Israelite or they are part of the great crowd. At that point, there will no longer be any need for an earthly organization to guide and train and exhort God’s people. As the Jewish system of things became obsolete after it accomplished its intended purpose of producing the Messiah, so, too, the Watchtower will become obsolete.”
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
The biggest event that will happen when the great tribulation starts will be the fall of Babylon the great, which is the current word order made up of the politico religious systems supported by the commercial element. This is the best Satan was able to come up with. The last arangement he will produce will be a ferocious beast that will attempt to coerce all humans beings into worshipping him. He will lose, because Jehovah will intervene trough Jesus and faithful people will be saved miraculously.
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭51:7‭-‬9‬ ‭
[7] Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of the Jehovah, Intoxicating all the earth. The nations have drunk of her wine; Therefore the nations are going insane. [8] Suddenly Babylon has fallen and been broken; Wail over her! Bring balm for her pain; Perhaps she may be healed. [9] We applied healing to Babylon, but she was not healed; Abandon her and let’s each go to his own country, For her judgment has reached to heaven And it rises to the clouds.

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭18:7‭-‬10‬ ‭
[7] To the extent that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, to the same extent give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as a queen and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning.’ [8] For this reason in one day her plagues will come, plague and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong. [9] “And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of sexual immorality and lived luxuriously with her, will weep and mourn over her when they see the smoke of her burning, [10] standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’
 

SusanB

Well-known member
The biggest event that will happen when the great tribulation starts will be the fall of Babylon the great, which is the current word order made up of the politico religious systems supported by the commercial element. …
I need to know how you have come to this conclusion. In my mind the biggest event will be the fall of the Watchtower and the scattering of his people including anointed ones.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭51:7‭-‬9‬ ‭
[7] Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of the Jehovah, Intoxicating all the earth. The nations have drunk of her wine; Therefore the nations are going insane. [8] Suddenly Babylon has fallen and been broken; Wail over her! Bring balm for her pain; Perhaps she may be healed. [9] We applied healing to Babylon, but she was not healed; Abandon her and let’s each go to his own country, For her judgment has reached to heaven And it rises to the clouds.

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭18:7‭-‬10‬ ‭
[7] To the extent that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, to the same extent give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as a queen and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning.’ [8] For this reason in one day her plagues will come, plague and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong. [9] “And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of sexual immorality and lived luxuriously with her, will weep and mourn over her when they see the smoke of her burning, [10] standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’
Babylon will fall but why do you say it will be when the great tribulation starts?
 

SusanB

Well-known member
… Babylon the great, which is the current word order made up of the politico religious systems supported by the commercial element. …
I don’t think that Babylon can be the “current world order made up of the politico religious systems supported by the commercial element.“ The description does not fit with the Kings surviving and then mourning over Babylon nor the fact that she rides the scarlet colored beast. In my mind we are talking about separate things and I think the world empire of false religion is the better fit. That includes the description of her “sexual immorality”.
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
The fall of watchtower will be a marginal event for the world. For Jehovah's people yes, but watchtower proved not to listen and to stay out of Babylon. They kind of turned back to Babylon in the past decades.
 
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Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
I don’t think that Babylon can be the “current world order made up of the politico religious systems supported by the commercial element.“ The description does not fit with the Kings surviving and then mourning over Babylon nor the fact that she rides the scarlet colored beast. In my mind we are talking about separate things and I think the world empire of false religion is the better fit. That includes the description of her “sexual immorality”.
Babylon has the religious element in it, the last king will not accept that element. He will ask for direct worship to Satan and to himself.
 

DR75 less 1

Well-known member
That is called "eye-witness of the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" my brother.

Not a bad story My brother Med. But it don't quite sit right. When Saul's friends went and hid, were they really eye witnesses that Saul just had a run in with the glorified Jesus Christ? And when Daniel's friends hid, were they really eye witnesses that Daniel saw a vision of the Christ. However comma like the other sheep they were aware that something was up. And possibly after the fact they may or may not have been clued in to what had happened. So the friends of Saul and Daniel were not eye witnesses to anything. So too the great crowd will see evidence that the Day of the Lord is here after the fact.
 
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Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
‭‭Daniel‬ ‭11:37‬ ‭
[37] And he will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will he show regard for any other god; for he will boast against them all.
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:12‭-‬18‬ ‭
[12] The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. [13] These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast. [14] These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them because He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.” [15] And he *said to me, “The waters which you saw where the prostitute sits are peoples and multitudes, and nations and languages. [16] And the ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire. [17] For God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God will be fulfilled. [18] The woman whom you saw is the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth.”
‭‭

Daniel‬ ‭8:25‬ ‭
[25] “And through his shrewdness He will make deceit a success by his influence; And he will make himself great in his own mind, And he will destroy many while they are at ease. He will even oppose the Prince of princes, But he will be broken without human agency.

‭‭Revelation‬ ‭19:19‭-‬21‬ ‭
[19] And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies, assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse, and against His army. [20] And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire, which burns with brimstone. [21] And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭51:27‭-‬29‬ ‭
[27] ¶Lift up a signal flag in the land, Blow a trumpet among the nations! Consecrate the nations against her, Summon against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashkenaz; Appoint an officer against her, Bring up the horses like bristly locusts. [28] Consecrate the nations against her, The kings of the Medes, Their governors and all their officials, And every land under their control. [29] So the land quakes and writhes, For the plans of the Lord against Babylon stand, To make the land of Babylon A desolation without inhabitants.
[44] “I will punish Bel in Babylon, And I will make what he has swallowed come out of his mouth; And the nations will no longer stream toward him. Even the wall of Babylon has fallen down!
 

Frank D

Well-known member
Babylon has the religious element in it, the last king will not accept that element. He will ask for direct worship to Satan and to himself.
Does the 8th king really get rid of Babylon? I know the Bible says the 10 kings and the beast will do so but the Bible also says that it is not until the 7th bowl does Jehovah remember to deal with her. And this is after the 5th bowl is poured out on the beast. If that is occurring on the beast with the 5th bowl, then I would think that that is after his time to rule. And the 1st bowl comes on those that have the mark which is given during the beast rule. That means that Babylon is present the whole time the beast is in authority. But why would the beast even care to turn on Babylon at that time when it itself is getting bowls of wrath poured on it?


[16 And the ten horns that you saw and the wild beast, these will hate the prostitute and will make her devastated and naked, and they will eat up her flesh and completely burn her with fire.] :unsure:

So, we are told.:rolleyes:

[2 The first one went off and poured out his bowl on the earth.+ And a hurtful and malignant ulcer+ afflicted the people who had the mark of the wild beast+ and who were worshipping its image.+]

[10 The fifth one poured out his bowl on the throne of the wild beast. And its kingdom became darkened,+ and they began to gnaw their tongues because of their pain, 11 but they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their ulcers, and they did not repent of their works.]

[17 The seventh one poured out his bowl on the air. At this a loud voice came out of the sanctuary+ from the throne, saying: “It has come to pass!” 18 And there were flashes of lightning and voices and thunders, and there was a great earthquake unlike any that had occurred since men came to be on the earth,+ so extensive and so great was the earthquake. 19 The great city+ split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell; and Babylon the Great+ was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.+ 20 Also, every island fled, and mountains were not found.+ 21 Then great hailstones, each about the weight of a talent,* fell from heaven on the people,+ and the people blasphemed God because of the plague of hail,+ for the plague was unusually great.]

Are the 10 kings and beast in that bowl and they are the wrath that come on Babylon at that time? IDK how Babylon comes to her end but it seems to happen at the 7th bowl. Also take note that Babylon the great is called the great city and that is where the two witnesses are killed.

[7 When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them.+ 8 And their corpses will be on the main street of the great city that is in a spiritual sense called Sodʹom and Egypt, where their Lord was also executed on the stake.]
 

SusanB

Well-known member
The fall of watchtower will be a marginal event for the world. For Jehovah's people yes, but watchtower proved not to listen and to stay out of Babylon. They kind of turned back to Babylon in the past decades. If it's true and they bought shares in big corporations that is a big sin.
I agree that in the eyes of the world it will probably be nothing more than a snicker, but God’s word always focuses on his people as a part of the main event.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Not a bad story My brother Med. But it don't quite sit right. When Saul's friends went and hid, were they really eye witnesses that Saul just had a run in with the glorified Jesus Christ? And when Daniel's friends hid, were they really eye witnesses that Daniel saw a vision of the Christ. However comma like the other sheep they were aware that something was up. And possibly after the fact they may or may not have been clued in to what had happened. So the friends of Saul and Daniel were not eye witnesses to anything. So too the great crowd will see evidence that the Day of the Lord is here after the fact.
You missed a key word in my statement. Eye-witnesses of the “DAY”. Everyone alive will see the day but most won’t recognize it.

Here is a quote from what I actually said: “we may have the privilege to be eye-witnesses of the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.”. Hopefully we will recognize it because it will mean our life.
 
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