Chapter 3 - The Harvest

Jess

Well-known member
Sorry, but I'm confused......as I too learned that Jesus began to reign in 1914 when He was enthroned end at there would be no end to it. But at the same time I learned that He would reign for 1,000 years, to bring the other sheep to perfection, and after those 1,000 years would return His Kingdom to His Father. Okay, a little confusing, but okay.
My question was then and very frequently after that, until even yesterday, If He started in 1914 and reigns for 1,000 years, then there are about 108 years of those 1,000 years already passed, right?
Answer: No, I see that wrong, that 1000 year only starts after Armageddon. Oh yes, that's true, I say, but then how can he rule now from 1914 when he REIGNS a total of 1,000 YEARS according to Revelation?
A total blank look of how can I be sooooo stupid after all these years of being in the truth, sad though.

How happy and grateful I am with Robert's book and all the explanations and the comments in this thread, so that there can be some line in my thinking. View attachment 2529
Wow, I never thought of this point regarding 1914! Good one!
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
We're not here to teach one another? What are we here for? Proverbs 27:17 I don't feel learning is a by product of the forum but a real teaching aid. If it wasn't I would waste my time. This old fart has learned a lot from the teachings of the folks on here.

I'm not here to teach. I am here to express my views, ( whatever is on my mind ) and respond to others. That is the way I see forums right or wrong? If some acknowledge my views and are encouraged, and I others; then that is a positive. Would be teachers are cautioned; Jas 3:1, 2.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
I'm not here to teach. I am here to express my views, ( whatever is on my mind ) and respond to others. That is the way I see forums right or wrong? If some acknowledge my views and are encouraged, and I others; then that is a positive. Would be teachers are cautioned; Jas 3:1, 2.
By giving our experiences and views we sometimes teach, like it or not.

Like a movie once said. 50% of us are here to teach the other 50% what not to do. :)
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
By giving our experiences and views we sometimes teach, like it or not.

Like a movie once said. 50% of us are here to teach the other 50% what not to do. :)

If we learn from each other well and good. But would be teachers are cautioned, As far as the movie, well it is just a movie.
I'm not here to teach on this forum neither am I here to be taught. If our content has teaching value for each other? Amen. Curious to know what the ratio is between "teacher" and "taught one" from the bible standpoint? 50/50? My money says no. Still it maybe something to look into. In the mean time may we continue to share our views, right or wrong.
 
Last edited:

SusanB

Well-known member
I did not realize that the expression of weeping and gnashing the teeth was solely used by Jesus when describing the emotion of despair that rejected ones will experience when they are put out of the Kingdom. This is very interesting. Here is a quote from Chapter 3.

Another aspect to consider is that Jesus said that the weeds would experience “weeping and gnashing of their teeth.” What does that mean?
The expression “there is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be” was always used by Jesus to illustrate the condition of despair that the rejected ones would experience when they were put out of the Kingdom. That specific phrase is never used in reference to the judgment upon the world in general. For instance, at Matthew 8:12 Jesus said: “Whereas the sons of the Kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.”
Likewise, in the illustration of the wedding of the king’s son, which is clearly pictorial of the marriage of the Lamb, the man who was allowed entry into the wedding feast, but who was later found to be improperly attired, was consequently bound and thrown into the outer darkness, which is where his weeping and gnashing of teeth occurred.
Similarly, in the illustration of the faithful and discreet slave, the evil slave is said to weep and gnash his teeth when he is thrown out of God’s household upon Christ’s ultimate inspection. Moreover, the wicked and sluggish slave who misuses his master’s assets is destined to meet the same fate.
Jesus used the expression weeping and gnashing of teeth in yet one other illustration. In the context of the parable of the wheat and the weeds in the 13th chapter of Matthew, Jesus related a similar illustration, likening the Kingdom of the heavens to a fisherman’s dragnet, saying: “Again the Kingdom of the heavens is like a dragnet let down into the sea and gathering fish of every kind. When it was full, they hauled it up onto the beach, and sitting down, they collected the fine ones into containers, but the unsuitable they threw away. That is how it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The angels will go out and separate the wicked from among the righteous and will cast them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be
.”
 

Jess

Well-known member
I did not realize that the expression of weeping and gnashing the teeth was solely used by Jesus when describing the emotion of despair that rejected ones will experience when they are put out of the Kingdom. This is very interesting. Here is a quote from Chapter 3.

Another aspect to consider is that Jesus said that the weeds would experience “weeping and gnashing of their teeth.” What does that mean?
The expression “there is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be” was always used by Jesus to illustrate the condition of despair that the rejected ones would experience when they were put out of the Kingdom. That specific phrase is never used in reference to the judgment upon the world in general. For instance, at Matthew 8:12 Jesus said: “Whereas the sons of the Kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.”
Likewise, in the illustration of the wedding of the king’s son, which is clearly pictorial of the marriage of the Lamb, the man who was allowed entry into the wedding feast, but who was later found to be improperly attired, was consequently bound and thrown into the outer darkness, which is where his weeping and gnashing of teeth occurred.
Similarly, in the illustration of the faithful and discreet slave, the evil slave is said to weep and gnash his teeth when he is thrown out of God’s household upon Christ’s ultimate inspection. Moreover, the wicked and sluggish slave who misuses his master’s assets is destined to meet the same fate.
Jesus used the expression weeping and gnashing of teeth in yet one other illustration. In the context of the parable of the wheat and the weeds in the 13th chapter of Matthew, Jesus related a similar illustration, likening the Kingdom of the heavens to a fisherman’s dragnet, saying: “Again the Kingdom of the heavens is like a dragnet let down into the sea and gathering fish of every kind. When it was full, they hauled it up onto the beach, and sitting down, they collected the fine ones into containers, but the unsuitable they threw away. That is how it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The angels will go out and separate the wicked from among the righteous and will cast them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be
.”
Excellent research! Enjoyed this point very much.
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
Chapter 3 is not hard to understand.

“Let him that has ears listen.”

Does anyone reading this find anything apostate about it?

Conversely, are there things written here that beg for clarity on the part of those who profess to be the faithful and discreet slave? Those who insist that all must have one unified understanding based on the doctrine of the watchtower? Should these things have a rebuttal from them?

This is my prayer, I will wait on Jehovah.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I did not realize that the expression of weeping and gnashing the teeth was solely used by Jesus when describing the emotion of despair that rejected ones will experience when they are put out of the Kingdom. This is very interesting. Here is a quote from Chapter 3.

Another aspect to consider is that Jesus said that the weeds would experience “weeping and gnashing of their teeth.” What does that mean?
The expression “there is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be” was always used by Jesus to illustrate the condition of despair that the rejected ones would experience when they were put out of the Kingdom. That specific phrase is never used in reference to the judgment upon the world in general. For instance, at Matthew 8:12 Jesus said: “Whereas the sons of the Kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be.”
Likewise, in the illustration of the wedding of the king’s son, which is clearly pictorial of the marriage of the Lamb, the man who was allowed entry into the wedding feast, but who was later found to be improperly attired, was consequently bound and thrown into the outer darkness, which is where his weeping and gnashing of teeth occurred.
Similarly, in the illustration of the faithful and discreet slave, the evil slave is said to weep and gnash his teeth when he is thrown out of God’s household upon Christ’s ultimate inspection. Moreover, the wicked and sluggish slave who misuses his master’s assets is destined to meet the same fate.
Jesus used the expression weeping and gnashing of teeth in yet one other illustration. In the context of the parable of the wheat and the weeds in the 13th chapter of Matthew, Jesus related a similar illustration, likening the Kingdom of the heavens to a fisherman’s dragnet, saying: “Again the Kingdom of the heavens is like a dragnet let down into the sea and gathering fish of every kind. When it was full, they hauled it up onto the beach, and sitting down, they collected the fine ones into containers, but the unsuitable they threw away. That is how it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The angels will go out and separate the wicked from among the righteous and will cast them into the fiery furnace. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth will be
.”
A very sobering scripture. What with that, and the scripture citing the proclivities of man towards evil, quoted by someone yesterday - meaning us as well ! - it is a wonder how any will survive the inspection to come.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
A very sobering scripture. What with that, and the scripture citing the proclivities of man towards evil, quoted by someone yesterday - meaning us as well ! - it is a wonder how any will survive the inspection to come.
I think that's why the reference to sackcloth..Rev 11:3,4...realisation of being part of idolatry! Awareness of serving carrying out orders from the man of lawlessness!
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Here are more gems from this chapter.

”…the tribulation does not lead immediately into Armageddon. Instead, the seventh chapter of Revelation indicates that the angels intercede to hold back the four winds of God’s destructive judgment until all of the remaining 144,000 have been sealed. Jesus directly spoke of the same development when he said: “For then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short”. The holding back of the four winds parallels the cutting short of the tribulation on account of the chosen ones of the 144,000. Evidently the tribulation will be suspended so that the final sealing may be accomplished. That being the case, the 14th chapter of Revelation establishes the ordering of events after that final sealing”.

and

”The vision of Revelation reveals that after the last of the 144,000 sons of the Kingdom have been gathered into the storehouse, then the hour of judgment for the sheep and goats arrives……After foretelling how the evil and sluggish slaves will be dismissed from God’s household, Christ next gave the illustration of the sheep and the goats, which has to do with the judgment of all the nations. It is reasonable to conclude that the sheep are those who render good to Christ’s brothers during the time of tumult and persecution that marks the judgment upon the house of God”.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Here are more gems from this chapter.

”…the tribulation does not lead immediately into Armageddon. Instead, the seventh chapter of Revelation indicates that the angels intercede to hold back the four winds of God’s destructive judgment until all of the remaining 144,000 have been sealed. Jesus directly spoke of the same development when he said: “For then there will be great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world’s beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short, no flesh would be saved; but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short”. The holding back of the four winds parallels the cutting short of the tribulation on account of the chosen ones of the 144,000. Evidently the tribulation will be suspended so that the final sealing may be accomplished. That being the case, the 14th chapter of Revelation establishes the ordering of events after that final sealing”.

and

”The vision of Revelation reveals that after the last of the 144,000 sons of the Kingdom have been gathered into the storehouse, then the hour of judgment for the sheep and goats arrives……After foretelling how the evil and sluggish slaves will be dismissed from God’s household, Christ next gave the illustration of the sheep and the goats, which has to do with the judgment of all the nations. It is reasonable to conclude that the sheep are those who render good to Christ’s brothers during the time of tumult and persecution that marks the judgment upon the house of God”.
How do we offer help to these ones? It is unlikely that we ourselves will physically have anything to help them with at that time and proximity will be another factor. I have always wondered what circumstances will arise where and how we May be part of this as shown in the scriptures.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
How do we offer help to these ones? It is unlikely that we ourselves will physically have anything to help them with at that time and proximity will be another factor. I have always wondered what circumstances will arise where and how we May be part of this as shown in the scriptures.
Before Jehovah's day we are to listen to a horn blown in Zion.."listen to a war cry in His Holy mountain let all it inhabitants tremble....For the coming day of Jehovah is coming it is near!" Joel 2:1. Watchtower would have us look to yesterday for His coming...so where is this warning being pronounced?...from outside the camp Heb 13:13!
 

kenmuldoon55

Well-known member
How do we offer help to these ones? It is unlikely that we ourselves will physically have anything to help them with at that time and proximity will be another factor. I have always wondered what circumstances will arise where and how we May be part of this as shown in the scriptures.
Wondered this often as well. At that time Jehovah supposedly pours out His spirit not only on His sealed sons but also on the other non sealed believers.
How will our lives (those of us who happen to survive) look then when the tribulation is cut short? If that tribulation lasts even a short period ,say a few weeks, I’d venture to say most of us would be depleted of foodstuffs rather quickly especially when most are living hand to mouth now.
Perhaps the great sword of nuclear war, along with the foretold earthquakes will result in uninhabitable cities , which will dislocate huge numbers to “government controlled locations/camps/cities.
Perhaps the beast will lure the starving masses to these locations with the promise of food.
Couple that with the new beast government sanctioning any existing food from non mark takers.
I guess my point is since Jehovahs spirit is poured out on His people in an extraordinary new way at that time, it just wouldn’t reflect very well on Him if His people ,at the same time, were to wither away and die off from starvation or privation.
You’d think that He would by necessity ,for His name sake, have to provide abundantly/miraculously for those looking to Him who at that time will be under the indirect active rule of the kingdom.
Even Moses ,when Jehovah wanted to destroy His rebellious people in the wilderness, was concerned how the nations would view a God who couldn’t bring His people to the promised land.
I guess we leave the how and why to Him.
Jesus says that those favored sheep do indeed have “food ,drink and comfort” to share with his brothers during their distress so somehow those resources will be in the possession of any who happen to be positioned among them.
Just more Muldoon mullings here Barnaby.
 
Last edited:

DR74minus

Well-known member
How do we offer help to these ones? It is unlikely that we ourselves will physically have anything to help them with at that time and proximity will be another factor. I have always wondered what circumstances will arise where and how we May be part of this as shown in the scriptures.

At that time Jehovah's people will be locked out of the system. Joel 2:28, speaks of "sons and daughters", likely the two anointed witnesses. Verse 29 says "male slaves and female slaves" I'm picking the other sheep. According to Jesus the sheep will support his brothers when the time comes. Jesus also gave specifics, when I was in need of food, shelter, medical care, prison support. "you did it to the least of these my brothers" Keep in mind that both the anointed and and the supporting other sheep will all be infused with holy spirit. I suspect opportunities ( whatever they might be ) will arise where the other sheep will support the two witnesses. those who take said opportunities and give support, Jesus will put on his right, etc.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
How do we offer help to these ones? It is unlikely that we ourselves will physically have anything to help them with at that time and proximity will be another factor. I have always wondered what circumstances will arise where and how we May be part of this as shown in the scriptures.
If you have the means you can contribute to the costs of RK's site and forum at this point in time. A small monthly contribution could help him spread the "truth about the truth". But yeah, when hard times come it may come down to helping only those anointed that you know personally, if any.

But remember Matt 11:28,29. I'm sure RK isn't looking for your kid's ice cream money. :)

I used to contribute a small amount until I had a little problem with the Patreon payment processor. Grrrrrrrr!!!!! 😡

I think I found away around it though...hopefully.
 

wth

Member
1914 a false sign but a sign none the less.Why did the devil go to great lengths to product this false sign?
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
1914 a false sign but a sign none the less.Why did the devil go to great lengths to product this false sign?
Because that's what the Devil does. He has deceived the entire world. His intended target is the sons of the Kingdom. Setting up a fake parousia allows him to gain control over "the truth." That is what Paul calls the "operation of Satan", which Jehovah allows for the purpose of imposing a test when Christ actually comes.
 

wth

Member
How do Christian know what is a true sign and a false sign?If the devil wanted control over the Bible students back in 1914 did that mean that they had the truth back then?Or did false brother slip in later?
 
Top