Dark Waters

Thank you. My experience at the memorial last year was the final time I allow Watchtower to be the middleman between me and Jehovah. I don't know what I will do. I won't be going to another KH again.
Ezekiel 37:21-23: “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “I will take the Israelites from among the nations where they have gone, and I will collect them together from every direction and bring them to their land. I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one king will rule over all of them, and they will no longer be two nations; nor will they be divided any longer into two kingdoms. They will no longer defile themselves with their disgusting idols and their detestable practices and all their transgressions. I will save them from all their unfaithfulness by which they have sinned, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I myself will be their God.”
 
Ezekiel 37:21-23: “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “I will take the Israelites from among the nations where they have gone, and I will collect them together from every direction and bring them to their land. I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one king will rule over all of them, and they will no longer be two nations; nor will they be divided any longer into two kingdoms. They will no longer defile themselves with their disgusting idols and their detestable practices and all their transgressions. I will save them from all their unfaithfulness by which they have sinned, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I myself will be their God.”
What a blessing you are to this forum .
 
I‘ll add my 2 cents because I remember what a horrible experience you had. Consider how the Memorial was celebrated throughout history since its inception and do your best to follow the example. You were told to never come back. I would think that qualifies as being thrown out of the congregation. Jehovah and Jesus don’t live at the Kingdom Hall. Pray about it and wait to make the decision. A lot can happen before then.
Jehovah and Jesus don’t live at the Kingdom Hall.

Good reminder for us all! 👏👏
 
@Medi-tator I’m no occult expert, you’d have to get ol’ Massimo for that! 😆 Basically I came to this info from an interview with a former sister who had been trying to witness to a woman that was part of a ”pagan” religion. By pagan she meant the kind of ancient religions that use magic like Wicca and Druids. The sister was describing how as witnesses we observe the memorial. We observe Jesus death, gather after sundown, and we pass the emblems without partaking. The pagan woman said that was exactly how they celebrated each year too! They denied the Christ by this ritual and celebrated his death and not his life. By passing the emblems they were publicly rejecting him. I was intrigued by this info as where we live has coincidentally a very large Druid population still and our downtown even has one of the largest and oldest Druid monuments on the west coast. I always found it odd that they had their weird celebrations the same night as our memorial. They would gather after dark at the monument but I never knew what they were doing.
Anyway that’s the info I’ve gathered and I’m certainly open to other info on the topic. It had never occurred to me before that there could be an entirely different explanation on why we celebrated differently than all other Christians.
But Jehovah's Witnesses do not reject Christ by refusing to partake of the bread and wine. Unlike the tree-worshipping Druids, those who are called into the Kingdom do partake. And many in attendance are witnesses to it. Of course, there are those who partake who are not worthy and not called, but you can't say that they reject the emblems. ;)
 
But Jehovah's Witnesses do not reject Christ by refusing to partake of the bread and wine. Unlike the tree-worshipping Druids, those who are called into the Kingdom do partake. And many in attendance are witnesses to it. Of course, there are those who partake who are not worthy and not called, but you can't say that they reject the emblems. ;)
Thank you.
 
But Jehovah's Witnesses do not reject Christ by refusing to partake of the bread and wine. Unlike the tree-worshipping Druids, those who are called into the Kingdom do partake. And many in attendance are witnesses to it. Of course, there are those who partake who are not worthy and not called, but you can't say that they reject the emblems. ;)
I agree the r & f have no intention of rejecting Christ! My questions come into play with leadership and origins. The research continues 👍
 
But Jehovah's Witnesses do not reject Christ by refusing to partake of the bread and wine. Unlike the tree-worshipping Druids, those who are called into the Kingdom do partake. And many in attendance are witnesses to it. Of course, there are those who partake who are not worthy and not called, but you can't say that they reject the emblems. ;)
I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
The first time I was shown this scripture, everything clicked in place for me. Until I studied with JWs I could not explain much of what I already felt. Felt, not knew. Once I read that scripture I understood why I never had any inclination to go to heaven as most people assume.
Some will still struggle with the partaking. If Jehovah really is God then won't he understand that by not partaking, I meant to not offend that arrangement with the kingly class who will help us restore Earth along with Jesus? It seems to read fairly clearly when we make no assumptions.
I used to be LDS. They also have a weekly arrangement of partaking but theirs is with bread and water since they don't admit to using alcohol.
I never partook and it was just a gut feeling. Nobody commented on it as long as I was in their midst. Odd now that I think about it.
 
Now that you mention it, the full moon aspect seemed a bit cult-ish to me as well. As if I was participating in some kinda druid moon-worship cult ritual.

Jim Gaffigan voice: Lets all gather on the spring full moon after dark to perform a ritual involving eating of figurative flesh and the drinking of blood. That sounds like something holy and innocent.

But what do I know, I'm just cave man. .
The jews went astray on the calender switching from a solar to a lunar calender during the second temple period. This moon centric bias is reinforced when people intentionally mistranslated new months as new moons in bibles.
 
I am the first one to proclaim that I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer. There is a saying in the business/sales world that "clarity is power". I humbly ask for a bit more detailed explanation (clarity) about what you guys are talking about. I agree with the premise that "WT is not just part of the beast system and the plan to bring 'the New World Order' but in all likelihood are at the helm. We literally were in the belly of the beast and had no clue!" But, I am totally missing the boat on how and why the memorial and passing of the emblems has now morphed into a satanic experience. And @Jah-son, I have always marveled at the awesome timing of the full moon on the memorial date being in rhythm with the first Passover in Egypt. What am I missing here or did I simply not read enough of this thread and missed it already? @Citrine help, please! This is the first I have heard of this about the memorial and need you or someone to spell it out for me if you don't mind. Thank you in advance!
Thanks for asking for clarity rather than assuming the worst and going on the attack. I greatly appreciate that. Citrine's comment had me thinking and it dawned on me that from an outsiders perspective, the whole thing is much like some kind of pagan ritual. That's the extent of my comment. Not trying to offend anyone. I like the full moon also but we know that ancient religions often formed around the veneration of heavenly bodies. It seems strange that the memorial also corresponds with the full moon. That's the truth of the matter. Why is that?

The reason we observe the memorial way we do is based on WT interpretation of the scriptures. Some people on this forum have suggested that everyone should be partaking of the emblems. Every day I'm confronted with further reasons to reject WT teachings. I realize that most of the folks here still hold to the basics taught by WT. That's fine but I'm at a point where I've decided that I'm not going to continue to be duped. I've wasted 30+ years of this life on a farce. I owe it to myself to reevaluate my beliefs. I'm in the process of deconstructing and rebuilding my belief systems. For me, that requires being open to many possibilities and sifting through them. If the memorial mirrors pagan rituals, an honest person would want to get to the bottom of that correlation. What came first, the chicken or the egg?
 
The jews went astray on the calender switching from a solar to a lunar calender during the second temple period. This moon centric bias is reinforced when people intentionally mistranslated new months as new moons in bibles.
Very interesting. Thanks for the info. That makes sense. I'll have to research that for myself.
 
Thanks for asking for clarity rather than assuming the worst and going on the attack. I greatly appreciate that. Citrine's comment had me thinking and it dawned on me that from an outsiders perspective, the whole thing is much like some kind of pagan ritual. That's the extent of my comment. Not trying to offend anyone. I like the full moon also but we know that ancient religions often formed around the veneration of heavenly bodies. It seems strange that the memorial also corresponds with the full moon. That's the truth of the matter. Why is that?

The reason we observe the memorial way we do is based on WT interpretation of the scriptures. Some people on this forum have suggested that everyone should be partaking of the emblems. Every day I'm confronted with further reasons to reject WT teachings. I realize that most of the folks here still hold to the basics taught by WT. That's fine but I'm at a point where I've decided that I'm not going to continue to be duped. I've wasted 30+ years of this life on a farce. I owe it to myself to reevaluate my beliefs. I'm in the process of deconstructing and rebuilding my belief systems. For me, that requires being open to many possibilities and sifting through them. If the memorial mirrors pagan rituals, an honest person would want to get to the bottom of that correlation. What came first, the chicken or the egg?
We’re gonna need a bigger boat.
 
Thanks for asking for clarity rather than assuming the worst and going on the attack. I greatly appreciate that.
I guess I have set an unintentional pattern with you brother wherein you feel I have attacked you in the past on other topics of discussion. For that I apologize!

I simply have never considered not having a hard and fast memorial date attached to some type of annual (certainly we won't convert to daily or weekly like false religion, right?) observance of Jesus death and his instituting of the new covenant. I am thinking that I have at least a few months to figure this one out before the traditional observance is scheduled for 2023. Or, maybe Jehovah will cut me and Driven some slack if we show up at the K-Hall and ride it out. My curiosity is piqued as to how you will handle this upcoming memorial. Please keep us informed as to the results of your research. Thank you again in advance!

It seems strange that the memorial also corresponds with the full moon. That's the truth of the matter. Why is that?
I chose to tag you in my comment about the full moon in a manner in which I thought was an acknowledgment of your thoughts and a friendly joining you in the conversation. From my perspective, in my almost 49 years as a JW, I always understood the memorial falling on the full moon was to coincide with the Nisan 14 date of the original passover. Until now, I have never heard that come into question.
 
why we celebrated differently than all other Christians.
Thank you Citrine for your explanation. I was indeed shocked by your comment, but on the other hand it also made me think about what Jesus' death actually means to me.
In Ecclesiastes 7 verse 1, Jehovah has written that a day of death is better than the day of birth. Why? Because on that day, you and others can realize whether you have lived your life, as best you can, in accordance with God's purpose.

Jesus has accomplished that in total perfection, unparalleled for us. After all, it could not have been so, considering Adam, Eve and Satan with his entourage, who were also all perfect. So then the above text applies even more to Jesus.
When accepting the bread and wine, I consciously realize again that Jesus also suffered on a stake for me and, thanks to His shed blood, has made possible a perfect life in the now not so distant future.
Since I am not an anointed one, I have no part in eating and drinking of the symbols, but receiving them does give me the opportunity to really reflect on the real meaning again and not see it as a ritual of 'passing on '. Of course I know the meaning, but often, in the hustle and bustle of everyday life, it is mentioned as the 'final part' of the prayer; "in the name of Jesus". And every year I realize how lacking I am in this area alone. So thank you again for having the courage to broach this subject.
And for Satan to make this a “surrogate” as well just shows how “desperate” he is, because he knows he is going to lose the battle.
With lots of
1671945684625.png


And that's why ( I ) we celebrate differently than all other Cristians.
 
Is it lawful for an anointed person to partake of the emblems, if one is disfellowshiped, or under reproof? Curious, did you publicly partake?
The Watchtower requires the congregation elders to record the number of partakers every year. They probably would not count someone who partook who is disfellowshipped. But what does that matter? Back when I was going through the judicial process resulting in my being disfellowshipped, it was right around Memorial time. Tradition is that when a person is disfellowshipped the elders wait a week before making the announcement to the congregation. As the judicial meeting was adjourning the Memorial was a few days away and I told the committee that I would be partaking. The presiding elder shot back: "We won't count you." I responded. "That's okay. As long as Jehovah does that's all that matters."
 
The Watchtower requires the congregation elders to record the number of partakers every year. They probably would not count someone who partook who is disfellowshipped. But what does that matter? Back when I was going through the judicial process resulting in my being disfellowshipped, it was right around Memorial time. Tradition is that when a person is disfellowshipped the elders wait a week before making the announcement to the congregation. As the judicial meeting was adjourning the Memorial was a few days away and I told the committee that I would be partaking. The presiding elder shot back: "We won't count you." I responded. "That's okay. As long as Jehovah does that's all that matters."
"We won't count you!" 😡 what arrogance!
 
The Watchtower requires the congregation elders to record the number of partakers every year. They probably would not count someone who partook who is disfellowshipped. But what does that matter? Back when I was going through the judicial process resulting in my being disfellowshipped, it was right around Memorial time. Tradition is that when a person is disfellowshipped the elders wait a week before making the announcement to the congregation. As the judicial meeting was adjourning the Memorial was a few days away and I told the committee that I would be partaking. The presiding elder shot back: "We won't count you." I responded. "That's okay. As long as Jehovah does that's all that matters."
why even bother forewarning the elders if it's going to stir the pot and as you say, it really is Jehovah's view that matters.
 
why even bother forewarning the elders if it's going to stir the pot and as you say, it really is Jehovah's view that matters.
This past Memorial I also went to the Sunday meeting that week and an elder followed me out into the parking lot to talk to me. I was full of the spirit and told him I was DFed and all that and had about a 10-minute conversation in which I explained to him that the GB has betrayed God and they were blood guilty for advocating the vaccines. He listened. He was shaken up. I could tell. That's what I do. I try to shake people up.
 
Last edited:
This past Memorial I also went to the Sunday meeting that week and an elder followed me out into the parking lot to talk to me. I was full of the spirit and told him I was DFed and all that and had about a 10-minute conversation in which I explained to him that the GB has betrayed God and they were blood guilty for advocating the vaccines. He listened. He was shaken up. I could tell. That's what I do. I try to shake people up.
You try to shake sense into them!
 
This past Memorial I also went to the Sunday meeting that week and an elder followed me out into the parking lot to talk to me. I was full of the spirit and told him I was DFed and all that and had about a 10-minute conversation in which I explained to him that the GB has betrayed God and they were blood guilty for advocating the vaccines. He listened. He was shaken up. I could tell. That's what I do. I try to shake people up.
Would love to have heard that conversation
 
Would love to have heard that conversation
As I recall, Russia had just invaded Ukraine so I went straight into the implications of WW3 as regards 1914. I was amused because at first we were standing on the walkway by the parking lot and JW's exiting the Kingdom Hall were walking by. He ushered me more out of the way so no one could hear. And motioned to me to keep my voice down. As the conversation grew more intense he ushered me a little more off to the side. I went home feeling good. ;)
 
Top