Do JW's think the GB are communicating directly with Jehovah?

Nomex

Well-known member
I have posted comments about what exactly it would require for WT and the GB to actually be "Jehovah's Channel". They would need to be in direct communication with God somehow. But the reality is as I have made the observation, that what really goes on is the GB meet, they discus a matter, they pray about it, then vote. And that indeed is the actual "direction" they get. In other words, there is no direction. Now I am not saying prayer is not beneficial, but God answers us, at least for now, from the pages of the Bible! He might move us to a verse or chapter maybe that answers our prayers, or even to someone else who directs us to the appropriate Bible passage...


But do others believe it's more than that? Indeed for a fact some JW's, and I would argue most likely MANY, believe God is actually sending an angel or something similar to communicate with the GB. I know at least one Elder who thinks this. And he thinks the GB just "isn't telling us yet." This is how the justification for the "strange and unusual" instruction that we "should follow anyway" comes from. The implication is, that the GB are communicating with God, other wise how would you ignore the scriptures! It's all about obeying "God's Organization" always implying that obeying God is obeying WT, because WT is God! I mean that is what calling WT "God's Organization" actually means!!!!


I am now convinced that it's not just the GB that are idols worshiped by R&F JW's but it is also, the WT corporation they worship! And i will prove it.
The rebellion in Eden was a rejection of God's Kingdom. Or the rejection of God who ruled that Kingdom, AKA "Organization"... so by WT elevating itself to "God's organization" which is controlled by God, they elevate themselves to Jehovah's position!

I could go on and on...but it's the same pattern over and over again. The WT Organization is an idolatrous object of false worship same as the rest of false religion!
 
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PJ54

Well-known member
A scripture to consider:
(Galatians 1:8, 9) 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.
 

Soul Sage

Well-known member
If you have a good foundation of knowledge about the Bible. You can access Jehovah's channel too. It's not exclusive to the GB. While a person that doesn't have much Bible knowledge would need assistance to eventually access Jehovah's channel, it's like anything. Takes training to reach that point. Qualifying for baptism usually means that you have a good enough understanding to access Jehovah's channel through diligent prayers. Teaching others refines your knowledge even more. There are times when I spoke to others in the ministry and had a thought come to mind that really resonated with the person.
 

Nomex

Well-known member
If you have a good foundation of knowledge about the Bible. You can access Jehovah's channel too. It's not exclusive to the GB. While a person that doesn't have much Bible knowledge would need assistance to eventually access Jehovah's channel, it's like anything. Takes training to reach that point. Qualifying for baptism usually means that you have a good enough understanding to access Jehovah's channel through diligent prayers. Teaching others refines your knowledge even more. There are times when I spoke to others in the ministry and had a thought come to mind that really resonated with the person.
Sorry, but you completely missed the point of this post!

The point is, R&K clearly understand, like the elder I am referring to, that "Jehovah's channel" is actually the Bible, but because of the brain washing by WT, they have been convinced that WT, and the GB have replaced "God's channel" the Bible, with the GB!

You cannot question the GB, because they are God, I mean "God's Channel."

It is 101 idolatry!
 

A B

Well-known member
Nomex, I'll present two seemingly unrelated items here and they touch on things you often bring up. I'm not making any point except to say the truth of all matters is in the midst of these things:

1-After 2007 change that the heavenly call did not end in 1935 I asked every anointed person I could find if they had previously considered themselves a replacement. Some very quickly said no, they did not. The rest would not answer the question. By that reaction I got the feeling that no one was comfortable or 'believing' of the 'replacement' teaching. The 'end' that everyone is waiting for is the filling of the number and Jesus told the anointed at Rev 2:27 that they will break the nations into pieces.

2-Jer. 25:33 "'And those slain by Jehovah in that day will be from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth. They will not be mourned, nor will they be gathered up or buried. They will become like manure on the surface of the ground.'
Rev 19:17-19 <-birds invited to great evening meal of God, kings, military commanders, strong men, freemen, slaves small and great
Rev 19:20 <-wild beast and false prophet thrown into lake of fire while still alive
Rev 19:21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword of the one seated on the horse, which proceeded out of his mouth. And all the birds were filled from the fleshy parts of them.
 
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Soul Sage

Well-known member
Sorry, but you completely missed the point of this post!

The point is, R&K clearly understand, like the elder I am referring to, that "Jehovah's channel" is actually the Bible, but because of the brain washing by WT, they have been convinced that WT, and the GB have replaced "God's channel" the Bible, with the GB!

You cannot question the GB, because they are God, I mean "God's Channel."

It is 101 idolatry!
Yes, the Bible is the huge ocean of the spiritual channel. Then flows into our direction if we are perceptive enough. As a young child won't fully grasp the understanding of it. It's all connected like the ocean is to canals and rivers.
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
No one has ever claimed that the GB or anyone else has ever communicated directly with God. That is not what is meant by Jehovah's channel. The channel is more on the output side of things, dispensing spiritual food to truth-hungry Christians. Let's face it, the Bible has been available in most of the major languages for the past 3-400 years. Hundreds of millions of people claim to be members of some Christian denomination or sect, and yet we know that they do not know the simplest things we regard as the ABCs of Christian doctrine. The Watchtower has taught those ABCs very effectively. And, it has trained millions of Christians to be Bible teachers. The work the Watchtower has done has accomplished what Jesus foretold; namely, that the good news will be preached in all the earth.

As far as being in touch with Jehovah, it is true that God is the Revealer of secrets. It is also true that He is the Concealer. I have written a fair bit about that, pointing out that God has covered the heads of the prophets and visionaries. I know I have related this story before, but back in 1997 when God first started opening up my mind to prophecies, I was friends with an elder who also was an ex-Bethelite. He was open to some of the things I was talking about and he suggested that I call a certain GB member because he said he was open-minded. So I did. The brother received my call. I spoke about the absurdity of the Watchtower's interpretation of Joel. He listened to a point and then shut me down and said: "If Jehovah wants us to know anything he will reveal it to one of us, not to someone who thinks they are anointed."

Of course, he was right. And obviously, Jehovah did not reveal the truth to them. It is amusing, though, after I pounded them with numerous private letters and then the book Jehovah Himself Has Become King, as well as subsequent Kingdom Bulletins, after 20 years they sheepishly admitted their interpretation of Joel was wrong. But instead of accepting the truth, now they claim that the locust attack has no modern application. Their blindness remains. But the point is, Joel reveals the catastrophe that is destined to befall Jehovah's channel. That is why the opening words of Joel which is addressed to the elders, says: "Wake up you drunkards!" Then Jehovah really will be speaking to them



 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
A scripture to consider:
(Galatians 1:8, 9) 8 However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond the good news we declared to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, I now say again, Whoever is declaring to you as good news something beyond what you accepted, let him be accursed.
Taken from your comment or scripture to consider PJ. I was thinking back to when I came across particular householders in the territory to have discussions with I would use these same scriptures and try to reason with them about what should‘ve been obvious to them.
Isn’t it ironic now that we need to use the same scriptures with JW’s to try and reason with them???
 
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BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
A scripture to consider:

Taken from your comment or scripture to consider, I was thinking back to when I came across particular householders in the territory to have discussions with I would use these same scriptures and try to reason with them about what should‘ve been obvious to them.
Isn’t it ironic now that we need to use the same scriptures with JW’s to try and reason with them???
Very ironic. ”And in the last days, my people will be ironic, and great shall be their irony.” Mathew chapter 89. V.99
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I have posted comments about what exactly it would require for WT and the GB to actually be "Jehovah's Channel". They would need to be in direct communication with God somehow. But the reality is as I have made the observation, that what really goes on is the GB meet, they discus a matter, they pray about it, then vote. And that indeed is the actual "direction" they get. In other words, there is no direction. Now I am not saying prayer is not beneficial, but God answers us, at least for now, from the pages of the Bible! He might move us to a verse or chapter maybe that answers our prayers, or even to someone else who directs us to the appropriate Bible passage...


But do others believe it's more than that? Indeed for a fact some JW's, and I would argue most likely MANY, believe God is actually sending an angel or something similar to communicate with the GB. I know at least one Elder who thinks this. And he thinks the GB just "isn't telling us yet." This is how the justification for the "strange and unusual" instruction that we "should follow anyway" comes from. The implication is, that the GB are communicating with God, other wise how would you ignore the scriptures! It's all about obeying "God's Organization" always implying that obeying God is obeying WT, because WT is God! I mean that is what calling WT "God's Organization" actually means!!!!


I am now convinced that it's not just the GB that are idols worshiped by R&F JW's but it is also, the WT corporation they worship! And i will prove it.
The rebellion in Eden was a rejection of God's Kingdom. Or the rejection of God who ruled that Kingdom, AKA "Organization"... so by WT elevating itself to "God's organization" which is controlled by God, they elevate themselves to Jehovah's position!

I could go on and on...but it's the same pattern over and over again. The WT Organization is an idolatrous object of false worship same as the rest of false religion!
Hi Nomex, You are so correct. They do think that. And, this thought is supported by their many stories of how they made a decision for something and Jehovah blessed it by some miraculous save. For example, in their recent report on “A Century of Trials and Triumphs in the Netherlands” they make this statement:

“The opposers continued. At one point, a crowd of over 1,000 people arrived to disrupt the program. Police officers even raided the convention site and arrested some brothers during the Sunday afternoon session.

None of these efforts by opposers were successful. Assisted by the careful direction of the branch office, the responsible brothers were able to proceed with the convention program.

Jehovah continued to bless the steadfastness of the brothers. In 1983, the Netherlands branch moved to a new facility in Emmen. In 2022, the number of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Netherlands is nearly 30,000.”

And, I think we can all remember other recounting of times when they were involved in various endeavors and it appeared it would fail, but a seemingly miraculous event happened that allowed them to complete their project. I‘m not saying that Jehovah did or didn’t ”bless” the success of the organization because I don’t know but what I do know is that their recounting of these events leads a person to believe that Jehovah is using supernatural powers to give them success. So, the natural conclusion is that he is somehow communicating and directing the GB.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
No one has ever claimed that the GB or anyone else has ever communicated directly with God. That is not what is meant by Jehovah's channel. The channel is more on the output side of things, dispensing spiritual food to truth-hungry Christians. Let's face it, the Bible has been available in most of the major languages for the past 3-400 years. Hundreds of millions of people claim to be members of some Christian denomination or sect, and yet we know that they do not know the simplest things we regard as the ABCs of Christian doctrine. The Watchtower has taught those ABCs very effectively. And, it has trained millions of Christians to be Bible teachers. The work the Watchtower has done has accomplished what Jesus foretold; namely, that the good news will be preached in all the earth.

As far as being in touch with Jehovah, it is true that God is the Revealer of secrets. It is also true that He is the Concealer. I have written a fair bit about that, pointing out that God has covered the heads of the prophets and visionaries. I know I have related this story before, but back in 1997 when God first started opening up my mind to prophecies, I was friends with an elder who also was an ex-Bethelite. He was open to some of the things I was talking about and he suggested that I call a certain GB member because he said he was open-minded. So I did. The brother received my call. I spoke about the absurdity of the Watchtower's interpretation of Joel. He listened to a point and then shut me down and said: "If Jehovah wants us to know anything he will reveal it to one of us, not to someone who thinks they are anointed."

Of course, he was right. And obviously, Jehovah did not reveal the truth to them. It is amusing, though, after I pounded them with numerous private letters and then the book Jehovah Himself Has Become King, as well as subsequent Kingdom Bulletins, after 20 years they sheepishly admitted their interpretation of Joel was wrong. But instead of accepting the truth, now they claim that the locust attack has no modern application. Their blindness remains. But the point is, Joel reveals the catastrophe that is destined to befall Jehovah's channel. That is why the opening words of Joel which is addressed to the elders, says: "Wake up you drunkards!" Then Jehovah really will be speaking to them



Even the catholic church and the pope consider their other members even if lower by them having signs of miracle that happened through them. I will not say that the miracles are from Jehovah or the devil but to point that they are humble enough by accepting or knowing God can use other people whomever he wants to, even the lowliest of them. But it is the opposite in WT hierarchy, they only consider the GB or their close associates as being the only ones used by Jehovah. To the brother that you have called, it seems you have hurt his superiority complex.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Hi Nomex, You are so correct. They do think that. And, this thought is supported by their many stories of how they made a decision for something and Jehovah blessed it by some miraculous save. For example, in their recent report on “A Century of Trials and Triumphs in the Netherlands” they make this statement:

“The opposers continued. At one point, a crowd of over 1,000 people arrived to disrupt the program. Police officers even raided the convention site and arrested some brothers during the Sunday afternoon session.

None of these efforts by opposers were successful. Assisted by the careful direction of the branch office, the responsible brothers were able to proceed with the convention program.

Jehovah continued to bless the steadfastness of the brothers. In 1983, the Netherlands branch moved to a new facility in Emmen. In 2022, the number of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Netherlands is nearly 30,000.”

And, I think we can all remember other recounting of times when they were involved in various endeavors and it appeared it would fail, but a seemingly miraculous event happened that allowed them to complete their project. I‘m not saying that Jehovah did or didn’t ”bless” the success of the organization because I don’t know but what I do know is that their recounting of these events leads a person to believe that Jehovah is using supernatural powers to give them success. So, the natural conclusion is that he is somehow communicating and directing the GB.
Certainly true, as is that which Nomex says. They all deceive each other and vie amongst each other to be the greatest of the deceived. I challenged my sister on various points and her reply was that she and her husband are “very comfortable with our religion”. That’s where complacency gets you I suppose.
 

goldie

Well-known member
Hi Nomex, You are so correct. They do think that. And, this thought is supported by their many stories of how they made a decision for something and Jehovah blessed it by some miraculous save. For example, in their recent report on “A Century of Trials and Triumphs in the Netherlands” they make this statement:

“The opposers continued. At one point, a crowd of over 1,000 people arrived to disrupt the program. Police officers even raided the convention site and arrested some brothers during the Sunday afternoon session.

None of these efforts by opposers were successful. Assisted by the careful direction of the branch office, the responsible brothers were able to proceed with the convention program.

Jehovah continued to bless the steadfastness of the brothers. In 1983, the Netherlands branch moved to a new facility in Emmen. In 2022, the number of Jehovah’s Witnesses in the Netherlands is nearly 30,000.”

And, I think we can all remember other recounting of times when they were involved in various endeavors and it appeared it would fail, but a seemingly miraculous event happened that allowed them to complete their project. I‘m not saying that Jehovah did or didn’t ”bless” the success of the organization because I don’t know but what I do know is that their recounting of these events leads a person to believe that Jehovah is using supernatural powers to give them success. So, the natural conclusion is that he is somehow communicating and directing the GB.
And don't forget the update where the sisters who all took the vaccines were blessed with jobs!
 

DavidCJ

Well-known member
Hmm, very interesting. This topic was on the back of my mind the whole time. But I never gave deep thought about it, I guess I thought it as one thing I did not understand.

But yea either they are directly inspired by Jehovah, or they tried their best but unfortunately human fallacies have struck them.

That is not to say him and his angels can help individuals, or use the imperfect organization to achieve his goals. If the JW's are really the ones described as holy ones and receive judgment by Jehovah himself while being taken captive by Babylon the Great. Man oh man the shock on the people I can't even imagine.
 
A

AnnaNana

Guest
The current governing body has grieved God's spirit because they took on a title and authority that doesn't belong to them. "You are all brothers" but they want to be "the channel", though Jesus said all the 144,000 had "the helper" "teaching" them the truth.

As a result, they have caused divisions not only in the congregation but between the flock and their Father. Jesus wants the sheep to know more about their hope.

Here is some truth that was previously posted on another forum:

Hope is like an anchor for the soul – so important for that anchor to be solid! Many who feel they have an earthly hope also desire to “see” Jehovah. Part of the difficulty is the misunderstanding of this verse:

“No man has seen God at any time.”

In what way did John mean “seen”?

John spoke figuratively quite a bit. He calls Jesus “the Word” and “the light’. He says God “is Love” and God “is light”.

Let John himself explain…”No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him.”

John was talking about “seeing” Jehovah in all his heavenly glory, in heaven. Jesus explains further: “And the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me. You have neither heard his voice at any time nor seen his form.”

Jesus had seen Jehovah’s “form” in heaven, all Jehovah’s glory; that’s why Jesus could really explain him. Just meeting the person of Jehovah for the first time or knowing the person of Jehovah for even one human lifetime isn’t the same as “seeing” and “knowing” Jehovah in all his heavenly glory the way Jesus has been with and seen and known Jehovah.

What about this scripture in a conversation between Jehovah and Moses: “No man may see me and live”?

“Then he [Moses] said: “Please show me your glory.” But he said: “I will make all my goodness pass before your face, and I will declare before you the name of Jehovah; and I will favor the one whom I favor, and I will show mercy to the one to whom I show mercy.” But he added: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.” Jehovah said further: “Here is a place near me. Station yourself on the rock. When my glory is passing by, I will place you in a crevice of the rock, and I will shield you with my hand until I have passed by. After that I will take my hand away, and you will see my back. But my face may not be seen.””

When Jehovah said “my face may not be seen” here, he was talking as regards all his glory. Moses specifically asked to see “your glory”. We know Moses saw Jehovah’s “face” in a different way, not with all the glory, because the Bible is true.

“Jehovah spoke to Moses face-to-face, just as one man would speak to another man.”

And many other saw Jehovah’s face, as recorded in the following:

“Jehovah faced him [Gideon] and said: “Go with the strength you have, and you will save Israel out of Midʹi·an’s hand. Is it not I who send you?” (Judges 6:14)

“Then she [Hagar] called on the name of Jehovah, who was speaking to her: “You are a God of sight,” for she said: “Have I here actually looked upon the one who sees me?”” (Genesis 16:13)

“Then I [Ezekiel] heard someone speaking to me out of the temple, and the man came and stood beside me. He said to me: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet, where I will dwell among the people of Israel forever.” (Ezekiel 43:6,7)

“In turn Jacob inquired: “Tell me, please, your name.” However, he said: “Why is it that you ask my name?” With that he blessed him there. So Jacob named the place Pe·niʹel, for he said, “I have seen God face-to-face, yet my life was preserved.”” (Genesis 22:29,30)

“Later they heard the voice of Jehovah God as he was walking in the garden about the breezy part of the day, and the man and his wife hid from the face of Jehovah God among the trees of the garden.” (Genesis 3:8)

“Afterward, Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mamʹre while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day. He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground. Then he said: “Jehovah, if I have found favor in your eyes, please do not pass by your servant. Please, let a little water be brought and have your feet washed; then recline under the tree. Seeing that you have come here to your servant, let me bring a piece of bread so that you may refresh yourselves."

"Is anything too extraordinary for Jehovah?”

So Jehovah ate with Abraham, right here on earth. Abraham, the one called “Jehovah’s friend”. (Also, Abraham is one of Jehovah’s earthly children.) Then what happened?

“When the men got up to leave and looked down toward Sodʹom, Abraham was walking with them to escort them. Jehovah said: “Am I keeping hidden from Abraham what I am going to do?...Then the men left from there and went toward Sodʹom, but Jehovah remained with Abraham.”

There were three “men” who came to Abraham. (Remember, man is made in God’s image. “Let us make them in our image.”) One “man” was Jehovah. The other two went down to Sodom and found Lot. Jehovah stayed behind to talk with Abraham for awhile.

“Is anything to extraordinary for Jehovah?”
“I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be.”
“Our Father.”

Remember Jesus' lineage in the gospels? How does the last line go? “Son of Adam…Son of God.”

Our Father can walk on the earth. He can eat with us here. He can talk with us here without us burning up. He can do anything. He’s Jehovah. (If you can video chat with someone, you are not really in person but it is your representation, why can't Jehovah do something like that?)

“No one has seen God at any time. If we continue loving one another, God remains in us and his love is made perfect in us. By this we know that we are remaining in union with him and he in union with us, because he has given his spirit to us. In addition, we ourselves have seen and are bearing witness that the Father has sent his Son as savior of the world. Whoever acknowledges that Jesus is God’s Son, God remains in union with such one and he in union with God. And we have come to know and believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and the one who remains in love remains in union with God and God remains in union with him.”

No man can see God in his entirety, His higher-than-the-heavensness. But can Jehovah materialize a body to use if He wants to? Jesus could. Jehovah can listen to all those prayers at the same time. Why couldn't He interact in person via a human body with different people at the same time? Nothing is impossible for Jehovah.

“Who is blind except my servant, So deaf as the messenger I send? Who is so blind as the one rewarded, So blind as the servant of Jehovah?”

“At that time the eyes of the blind will be opened, And the ears of the deaf will be unstopped.”

All things are possible with God. In the Garden of Eden, Jehovah was Walking in the Garden. The man hid from Jehovah's Face. When it says in John that no man has seen the Father at anytime, it is talking figuratively about Seeing Jehovah as He really is in heaven. Jehovah is able to make a way for himself to enjoy the earth and his children on the earth in person. When Jacob was wrestling, after he asked the name of the one he was wrestling with, what was the answer he got, and what did he name that place? What did Hagar say after her interaction with "the One who sees me"? Jehovah is not partial. He is not only going to have personal face-to-face interactions with a certain "class" that goes to heaven. He is the Father of all his Children, both those whose abode is in heaven and those whose abode is on earth. There is a reason Jesus is called "Son of Man" and not just "Son of God". God made man in His image, because Jehovah is built that way too, and He can visit here and interact with his children here. He is Jehovah, "He Who Causes to Become" and "I Shall Become Whatsoever I Choose to Become". The city in the end of Ezekiel, that city that is on the earth in the future, is called Jehovah Himself Is There, and in Revelation 21:3,4 it says that Jehovah himself will wipe away every tear from out of their eyes. The "two sticks" will be joined together into one universal family with Jehovah as Father.

In what way are the anointed "elders" according to Revelation? Not in the sense of a clergy class. They are "elder brothers" in that they are adopted first. The 144,000 are "older brothers" in that they are born as God's children when anointed with holy spirit. The rest of faithful humankind is "born" completely as God's children at the end of the 1,000 year reign, when God becomes all things to all people and the family will truly be united at last.

Jehovah is Our Father. He is not far away from each one of us, and He wants us to know that those on earth will look into his eyes someday too. He is Our Father. Jehovah breathed the breath of life into Adam's nostrils here on earth. How close was Jehovah to Adam in order to do that? Adam will not be back, but Jesus took Adam's place as our Eternal Father. Jesus is not a deadbeat dad. He will interact with his earthly children forever, and when he turns the kingdom back to his Father at the end of the 1,000 year reign, when all humans on earth are perfect, then Jehovah will be all things to all people, meaning, He will be walking in the garden with you too and you will see His face. How could the earthly Paradise be complete without Jehovah there? He is the Most Important Part. God is Love.

Praise Jah!
 
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