Does God have a Name?

Carl

Well-known member
I'm not challenging either of you, I'm just trying to better understand this discussion/debate. I have no idea which of you is correct.

Honestly though, since BOTH of you believe Jehovah and Jesus aren't the same person, this discussion isn't about our beliefs, but rather how trinitarians mistranslate the Bible to support their beliefs, correct?

What I am claiming is that which one is used is determined by the structure of the sentence. I even gave you examples in another language. I gave you links to grammar lessons.
What is your native tongue? What supports your claims? Are self taught or college educated?

If you desire more information I have written about these matters in an e-book.
What is your native tongue? What supports your claims? Are self taught or college educated?
 

Innocent as Doves

Well-known member
The truth is the Hebrew pronunciation is lost. The English translation is Jehovah, like so many biblical names, the "J" is an English translation, since there is NO "J" sound in Hebrew! Also, the name of God is likely 3 syllables, so the English version is actually more acculturate in that regard. A more accurate Hebrew translation would be Yahaweh, or Yaheweh...sounds almost American Indian, which would actually make sense since the Jews are actually Orientals!

I loved this. Now that I see that the Hebrew version was most likely 3 syllables "Yahaweh"....I almost can't stop saying it. LOL

I know this might be a stretch....but when I pronounce this Hebrew 3 syllable version of God's name......it sounds/feels like an 'exhalation'.

When Jehovah created Adam, Jehovah "went on to....blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person".

In the Reasoning book, under "Spirit" it says:

Definition: The Hebrew word ru'ach and the Greek pneu'ma which are often translated "spirit," have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person's figurative heart and that causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired utterances originating with an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God's active force, or holy spirit.

Now, without saying the Hebrew name of God OUT LOUD....whisper it...Yahaweh. Doesn't it feel like a breath? An exhalation? I just thought this was interesting. ;)

(It was almost like Jehovah speaking his name is what gave Adam life.)
 
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KingdomLeast

Well-known member
In Hebrew, the name was pronounced using 3 syllables, not two as in Yah-weh. We know that because of the many proper names that incorporated the divine name as prefixes and suffices. The Hebrew pronunciation would have been Ye-ho-wah.
Since the original Hebrew didn't use vowels, wouldn't that same argument apply to the other names? You're assuming, "well these names had 3 syllables. Then the God's names must have 3 syllables." Whatbif the other names didn't have 3 syllables? Who decided that it did?
 

JMJLG

Well-known member
Since the original Hebrew didn't use vowels, wouldn't that same argument apply to the other names? You're assuming, "well these names had 3 syllables. Then the God's names must have 3 syllables." Whatbif the other names didn't have 3 syllables? Who decided that it did?
The written Hebrew language did not have inserted into them the vowels when they wrote everything down .The priests knew where to insert the vowels when they read what had been written .
 
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I Like Pizza

Active member
I loved this. Now that I see that the Hebrew version was most likely 3 syllables "Yahaweh"....I almost can't stop saying it. LOL

I know this might be a stretch....but when I pronounce this Hebrew 3 syllable version of God's name......it sounds/feels like an 'exhalation'.

When Jehovah created Adam, Jehovah "went on to....blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person".

In the Reasoning book, under "Spirit" it says:

Definition: The Hebrew word ru'ach and the Greek pneu'ma which are often translated "spirit," have a number of meanings. All of them refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. The Hebrew and Greek words are used with reference to (1) wind, (2) the active life-force in earthly creatures, (3) the impelling force that issues from a person's figurative heart and that causes him to say and do things in a certain way, (4) inspired utterances originating with an invisible source, (5) spirit persons, and (6) God's active force, or holy spirit.

Now, without saying the Hebrew name of God OUT LOUD....whisper it...Yahaweh. Doesn't it feel like a breath? An exhalation? I just thought this was interesting. ;)

(It was almost like Jehovah speaking his name is what gave Adam life.)
I feel the same when I say Jehovah and let it roll off my tongue.
 

Carl

Well-known member
I used Robert's video to help me write some of the informaton below, and I added my own flare. I give to people who question why we call God Jehovah:



Is the English name “Jehovah” an acceptable translation of the ancient Hebrew name for God? The translation of any word into another language uses the commonly accepted pronunciation of each letter the word is being translated into. For example, the Ancient Hebrew letter “Y” is translated into “J” in English. Jesus is thus pronounced with a “J” sound and not a “Y” sound. Examples of common Biblical names translated from Ancient Hebrew to Modern Hebrew to English:

Ancient Hebrew Modern Hebrew English
ירושלם יִ Yerushalayim Jerusalem
ְר ְמיָהוּ Yirmiyahu Jeremiah
ישוע Yeshua Jesus
יוֹ ָחנָן Yochanan John


God’s name in ancient Hebrew is יהוה which becomes YHWH in a Modern English letter for letter translation. Yahweh is the Modern Hebrew translation of God’s name, but is this consistent with other Modern Hebrew translations of ancient Hebrew names? Ancient Hebrew grammar did not record proper vowels, they were only spoken. These vowels have actually been forgotten for the most part, fulfilling God’s warning at:

Jeremiah 23:27 “They intend to make my people forget my name.”

The Devine Name, “Je-ho-vah” is undoubtedly composed of 3 syllables, not two as in “Yah-weh”. There are numerous examples of Hebrew names derived from YHWH, with some using the first two syllables as a prefix, and others using the last syllable as a suffix. Using commonly accepted Hebrew proper names as a guide stone, you can derive the name of God.

The vowel of the middle syllable is easily identified as “O”, making this syllable “HO”. Some examples of the accepted English translations of Hebrew names:

Je-ho-ash Je-hosh-a-phat Je-ho-ram
Je-hoi-arib Je-ho-hanan Je-hosh-eba
Je-hon-adab Je-hoi-achin Je-hoz-abad

The vowel of the last syllable is easily identified as an “A”, making this syllable “AH”. Some examples of the accepted English translations of Hebrew names:

Zephani-ah Hezeki-ah Isai-ah
Jeremi-ah Zechari-ah

What about the “V” sound? The Hebrew letter “W” has a “V” sound in English. Thus, YHWH translates into “Je-ho-vah” in English.

Psalm 83:18 in the original King James Bible tells us the name of God in English is “Jehovah"

"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the Earth.”
 

alan ford

Well-known member
I'm not challenging either of you, I'm just trying to better understand this discussion/debate. I have no idea which of you is correct.

Honestly though, since BOTH of you believe Jehovah and Jesus aren't the same person, this discussion isn't about our beliefs, but rather how trinitarians mistranslate the Bible to support their beliefs, correct?


What is your native tongue? What supports your claims? Are self taught or college educated?


What is your native tongue? What supports your claims? Are self taught or college educated?
Tbh, I'm not understanding what Rando's point is. He keeps going on about trinitarians and pretends that I am claiming that Jesus is Jehovah even though I am talking about something else completely.

His claim here is that the word "Theon" is used exclusively for Jehovah as if "Theon" is somehow different then "Theos". About which I am saying that the different ending is due to the structure of the sentence. "Theon" is just a declension, or conjugation of the word Theos. But this guy keeps mischaracterizing what I said and tries to push his spiel which has no connection to what I am talking about. I am college educated but not in linguistics. My native language (serbo-croat) shares some similarities with Greek when it comes to grammatical rules (both are highly inflected languages) even though it's not from the same group of languages. I am speaking about grammatical cases in particular.

I'll try to give you an example using your name to see how the ending differs in different cases (my language has 2 more cases than Greek):

nominativ (base form) - Carl - Who is this guy? He is Carl.
genitiv - Carlov - Whose car is this? This car is Carlov.
dativ - Carlu - Whom did you give this to? I gave it Carlu.
akuzativ - Carla - Whom did you see? I saw Carla.
vokativ - Carle - Hey, Carle (We wouldn't use this ending for foreign names, we would just say hey Carl, even though it's grammaticaly correct)
instrumental - Carlom - Who are you going with? - I'm going with Carlom.
lokativ - Carlu - Who are you talking about - I'm talking about Carlu.

So in similar way it depends on the structure of the sentence whether it would be said "Theos" or "Theon" (or Theou or Theō). The structure of the sentence where Jesus was mentioned as a god doesn't have a structure where "Theon" would be used. On the other hand, there are plenty of instances where "Theos" (and other variations) was used for Jehovah, because there are various contexts in which he was spoken about as God.

Finally, I'm posting this article for the third time as it explains nicely how the word used for "God" or "a god" in ancient Greek meant something different to Greeks than it did to Jews. Their concept of God was completely different.

Is Jesus God? | 2001 Commentaries
.
 

Carl

Well-known member
Tbh, I'm not understanding what Rando's point is. He keeps going on about trinitarians and pretends that I am claiming that Jesus is Jehovah even though I am talking about something else completely.

His claim here is that the word "Theon" is used exclusively for Jehovah as if "Theon" is somehow different then "Theos". About which I am saying that the different ending is due to the structure of the sentence. "Theon" is just a declension, or conjugation of the word Theos. But this guy keeps mischaracterizing what I said and tries to push his spiel which has no connection to what I am talking about. I am college educated but not in linguistics. My native language (serbo-croat) shares some similarities with Greek when it comes to grammatical rules (both are highly inflected languages) even though it's not from the same group of languages. I am speaking about grammatical cases in particular.

I'll try to give you an example using your name to see how the ending differs in different cases (my language has 2 more cases than Greek):

nominativ (base form) - Carl - Who is this guy? He is Carl.
genitiv - Carlov - Whose car is this? This car is Carlov.
dativ - Carlu - Whom did you give this to? I gave it Carlu.
akuzativ - Carla - Whom did you see? I saw Carla.
vokativ - Carle - Hey, Carle (We wouldn't use this ending for foreign names, we would just say hey Carl, even though it's grammaticaly correct)
instrumental - Carlom - Who are you going with? - I'm going with Carlom.
lokativ - Carlu - Who are you talking about - I'm talking about Carlu.

So in similar way it depends on the structure of the sentence whether it would be said "Theos" or "Theon" (or Theou or Theō). The structure of the sentence where Jesus was mentioned as a god doesn't have a structure where "Theon" would be used. On the other hand, there are plenty of instances where "Theos" (and other variations) was used for Jehovah, because there are various contexts in which he was spoken about as God.

Finally, I'm posting this article for the third time as it explains nicely how the word used for "God" or "a god" in ancient Greek meant something different to Greeks than it did to Jews. Their concept of God was completely different.

Is Jesus God? | 2001 Commentaries
.
Thank you for such an in depth answer. It helped me understand the topic better.
 

alan ford

Well-known member
this discussion isn't about our beliefs, but rather how trinitarians mistranslate the Bible to support their beliefs, correct?
I reread your comment and I want to address this. So to expand on a point I brought up previously: The NT was written primarily in Greek since it was a lingua franca in the Mediterranean region, similar to how English is today in the western world (and even beyond). The problem here is not mistranslation, since the word "Theos", coming from a language of a society that had a different conception of god(s), has a broader meaning and means "God" or "a god" depending on the context. The word itself is not mistranslated per se, it's actually how trinitarians apply the meaning of it. I think that it's very obvious from the context of so many other scriptures as to the nature of Jesus' relation to Jehovah.

Trinitarians use scriptures like these to support their theory, but take Matthew 28:19 (recommended read) for example: it's likely that the statement "baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit." is spurious. I've also seen some other instances where they insert their own meaning to some other scriptures, like the "Mighty God" from Isaiah 9:6. Note that NWT also renders it "Mighty God" (capital G). The word "el" in these scriptures is applied both to Jesus and other mighty humans as you can see in Eze. 32:21.

You can actually see that a lot of confusion comes from people applying meanings to words that are in line with their preconceived theological notions. Everyone does it and a lot of people get stuck on words and disregard the overall context, and they create these stupid arguments. When you objectively look at this whole issue, it's actually ridiculous... Does it really matter? It does but... If Jesus is an exact image of Jehovah and if Jehovah himself commanded to listen to his Son, then we should do that instead of creating these issues and looking for gotcha moments. Do we accept Jesus as King? So do trinitarians even though they misunderstand his nature. But in time it will be revealed beyond any doubt, to everyone. So until then I think it's better for to focus on actually setting our hearts in order and to build our faith because Jesus will judge our faith, heart, and actions and not our theology, understanding or knowledge. At the end of the day, we're all in the dark about some things but we can all work towards remodeling ourselves in the image of Christ.

Colossians 2:6, 7 "So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him..."
 

J&P

Well-known member
Tbh, I'm not understanding what Rando's point is. He keeps going on about trinitarians and pretends that I am claiming that Jesus is Jehovah even though I am talking about something else completely.

Finally, I'm posting this article for the third time as it explains nicely how the word used for "God" or "a god" in ancient Greek meant something different to Greeks than it did to Jews. Their concept of God was completely different.

Is Jesus God? | 2001 Commentaries
.
Very interesting read. Thanks Alan.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
So until then I think it's better for to focus on actually setting our hearts in order and to build our faith because Jesus will judge our faith, heart, and actions and not our theology, understanding or knowledge. At the end of the day, we're all in the dark about some things but we can all work towards remodeling ourselves in the image of Christ.
Perhaps... but what about this?:

‘Yet, many will say, O Lord! In your name, didn’t I prophesy? And in your name, didn’t I cast out demons? Yes, haven’t we done great deeds in your name? 23But I’ll tell them: I never knew you… Get away from me, you lawbreakers!

This doesn't refer to Hindus, Muslims, etc. It was pointed at "Christians" who believed falsehoods and practiced things that, on the surface, looked good and right. They weren't given a pass just because they were "Christians".

I submit that what we believe, our theology, understanding and knowledge is, in fact, important. Of course, if these people Christ talked about had faith, heart and good actions then it follows that it would be based on their theology, understanding and knowledge. He said with many that wasn't the case.
 

alan ford

Well-known member
Perhaps... but what about this?:

‘Yet, many will say, O Lord! In your name, didn’t I prophesy? And in your name, didn’t I cast out demons? Yes, haven’t we done great deeds in your name? 23But I’ll tell them: I never knew you… Get away from me, you lawbreakers!

This doesn't refer to Hindus, Muslims, etc. It was pointed at "Christians" who believed falsehoods and practiced things that, on the surface, looked good and right. They weren't given a pass just because they were "Christians".

I submit that what we believe, our theology, understanding and knowledge is, in fact, important. Of course, if these people Christ talked about had faith, heart and good actions then it follows that it would be based on their theology, understanding and knowledge. He said with many that wasn't the case.
I agree. I am not dismissing it or saying it's not important. I am not saying anything goes. But I am also trying to not judge according to my limited understanding. I do think it's important to have accurate knowledge. IMO it's not the knowledge that will save us but it's helpful in our becoming Christlike. I think becoming like Jesus is the single most important thing. Being in truth. (John 14:6; 17:3, 21) This is basically what most of the NT focuses on. My reasoning is that during the GT many will "wash their robes". Even those who at present might be laboring under a delusion, be it trinity, invisible presence and so on... I think the precedent was set during Jesus' first coming. I just notice the same patterns playing out now as they did back then. It will take a genuine love for Christ for anyone to be able to endure all that is coming upon us and ultimately be found worthy of entering the kingdom. Bible tells us that Christ's kingdom will be established in the midst of his enemies (Ps. 110:2), and also that many will stream to the mountain of Jehovah when it's established. (Isaiah 2:2) And in the same way those who loved the truth flocked to Christ then, it will be the same in the future.
I guess I've come to think that it's pointless focusing too much on what others do and what or how they believe. In my mind it's simple: if they display Christlike qualities, they are worth my time. Idk it's just how I think.
 
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StillA_WorshiperOfJah

Well-known member
Some ancient Hebrew scholars believe it was actually Yahuah, and it sounded like: "Yah" is simple to say, "u" sounds like "Oou, look at that," not "who," and "ah" sounds like "ah, that was refreshing." I don't speak ancient Hebrew, so I call God Jehovah since he isn't bound by one pronunciation of his name.
My God is also multilingual, having invented the languages at Babel.
 

Charming Primrose

Well-known member
I used Robert's video to help me write some of the informaton below, and I added my own flare. I give to people who question why we call God Jehovah:



Is the English name “Jehovah” an acceptable translation of the ancient Hebrew name for God? The translation of any word into another language uses the commonly accepted pronunciation of each letter the word is being translated into. For example, the Ancient Hebrew letter “Y” is translated into “J” in English. Jesus is thus pronounced with a “J” sound and not a “Y” sound. Examples of common Biblical names translated from Ancient Hebrew to Modern Hebrew to English:

Ancient Hebrew Modern Hebrew English
ירושלם יִ Yerushalayim Jerusalem
ְר ְמיָהוּ Yirmiyahu Jeremiah
ישוע Yeshua Jesus
יוֹ ָחנָן Yochanan John


God’s name in ancient Hebrew is יהוה which becomes YHWH in a Modern English letter for letter translation. Yahweh is the Modern Hebrew translation of God’s name, but is this consistent with other Modern Hebrew translations of ancient Hebrew names? Ancient Hebrew grammar did not record proper vowels, they were only spoken. These vowels have actually been forgotten for the most part, fulfilling God’s warning at:

Jeremiah 23:27 “They intend to make my people forget my name.”

The Devine Name, “Je-ho-vah” is undoubtedly composed of 3 syllables, not two as in “Yah-weh”. There are numerous examples of Hebrew names derived from YHWH, with some using the first two syllables as a prefix, and others using the last syllable as a suffix. Using commonly accepted Hebrew proper names as a guide stone, you can derive the name of God.

The vowel of the middle syllable is easily identified as “O”, making this syllable “HO”. Some examples of the accepted English translations of Hebrew names:

Je-ho-ash Je-hosh-a-phat Je-ho-ram
Je-hoi-arib Je-ho-hanan Je-hosh-eba
Je-hon-adab Je-hoi-achin Je-hoz-abad

The vowel of the last syllable is easily identified as an “A”, making this syllable “AH”. Some examples of the accepted English translations of Hebrew names:

Zephani-ah Hezeki-ah Isai-ah
Jeremi-ah Zechari-ah

What about the “V” sound? The Hebrew letter “W” has a “V” sound in English. Thus, YHWH translates into “Je-ho-vah” in English.

Psalm 83:18 in the original King James Bible tells us the name of God in English is “Jehovah"

"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the Most High over all the Earth.”
Why is Jehovah replaced with LORD in the NKJV??
 
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