Ezekiel Chapter 38

StopTheInsanity

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4 I will turn you around and put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in splendor, a vast assembly with large shields and bucklers, all of them wielding swords;
5 Persia, E·thi·oʹpi·a, and Put are with them, all of them with buckler and helmet;
6 Goʹmer and all its troops, the house of To·garʹmah from the remotest parts of the north, along with all its troops—many peoples are with you.
7 “‘“Be ready, prepare yourselves, you with all your armies that are assembled with you, and you will be their commander.
8 “‘“You will be given attention after many days. In the final part of the years you will invade the land whose people have been restored from the ravages of the sword, collected together out of many peoples onto the mountains of Israel, which had long been lying devastated. The inhabitants of this land were restored from the peoples, and all of them dwell in security.
9 You will come against them like a storm, and you will cover the land like clouds, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.”’

10 “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘In that day thoughts will come into your heart, and you will devise an evil plan.
11 You will say: “I will invade the land of unprotected settlements. I will come against those living in security, without disturbance, all of them living in settlements unprotected by walls, bars, or gates.”
12 It will be to take much spoil and plunder, to attack the devastated places that are now inhabited and a people regathered from the nations,
who are accumulating wealth and property, those who are living in the center of the earth.
13 “‘Sheʹban and Deʹdan, the merchants of Tarʹshish and all its warriors will say to you: “Are you invading to get much spoil and plunder? Have you assembled your armies to carry off silver and gold, to take wealth and property, to seize a very great spoil?”’
14 “So prophesy, son of man, and say to Gog, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “On that day when my people Israel are dwelling in security, will you not know it?
15 You will come from your place, from the remotest parts of the north, you and many peoples with you, all of them riding on horses, a great assembly, a vast army.
16 Like clouds covering the land, you will come against my people Israel. In the final part of the days I will bring you against my land so that the nations may know me when I sanctify myself through you before their eyes, O Gog.”’

Any thoughts on the bolded part of this section of scriptures in Ezekiel 38? What do you think the "dwelling in security" in the "land of unprotected settlements" "without walls, bars, or gates"? What is meant by "living in the center of the earth"?

I know who the King of the North will be at this time, the UN or 8th King, but what will the condition of God's people be at that time as described above? How will this come about?

Robert, if you've already written something on this, could you please post the link so I can read it? And, if you haven't written something on this, could you pretty please add it to your list? Thank you. :)
 

Watchman

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The 38th chapter of Ezekiel is a preview of what will take place after Jesus comes and cleanses the "temple." It pictures the real spiritual paradise that will come into existence, an organization composed of the great crowd who have come out of the tribulation and the chastened, sealed holy ones. They will reside in complete security because Christ will really be living among them. They will be dwelling in the "center of the earth" because the issue of Jehovah's universal sovereignty will come into sharp focus because of the refusal of "Israel" to bow to the image of the beast. 2,000 years ago Paul said that "we" are a theatrical spectacle to the world and to angels. "We" being in reference to those called to be in union with Christ, his prospective, associate kings and priests. Then the drama will be even more enhanced. Think 3 Hebrews refusing to bow to Nebuchadnezzar's golden image and the fiery furnace. Instead of "center of the earth" perhaps "center stage" would be more understandable. At any rate, here is a video on the topic.

 
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StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
The 38th chapter of Ezekiel is a preview of what will take place after Jesus comes and cleanses the "temple." It pictures the real spiritual paradise that will come into existence, an organization composed of the great crowd who have come out of the tribulation and the chastened, sealed holy ones. They will reside in complete security because Christ will really be living among them. They will be dwelling in the "center of the earth" because the issue of Jehovah's universal sovereignty will come into sharp focus because of the refusal of "Israel" to bow to the image of the beast. 2,000 years ago Paul said that "we" are a theatrical spectacle to the world and to angels. "We" being in reference to those called to be in union with Christ, his prospective, associate kings and priests. Then the drama will be even more enhanced. Think 3 Hebrews refusing to bow to Nebuchadnezzar's golden image and the fiery furnace. Instead of "center of the earth" perhaps "center stage" would be more understandable. At any rate, here is a video on the topic.

And what are the "unprotected settlements" with no walls, gates, etc. How can they be considered "unprotected" if they have Christ with them, or is that the way it will APPEAR to the nations since they will have no weapons?
 
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Watchman

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And what are the "unprotected settlements" with no walls, gates, etc. How can they be considered "unprotected" if they have Christ with them, or is that the way it will APPEAR to the nations since they will have no weapons?
That is precisely it. Think about the Hebrews in the exodus when the spirit led them in circles at the shore of the Red Sea. They appeared trapped. Defenseless. No way out. Jehovah put hooks in Pharoah's jaws then and induced him to attack. You know the rest of the story.
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
That is precisely it. Think about the Hebrews in the exodus when the spirit led them in circles at the shore of the Red Sea. They appeared trapped. Defenseless. No way out. Jehovah put hooks in Pharoah's jaws then and induced him to attack. You know the rest of the story.
Thank you 😊
 
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Jodan

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Does this account with Gog in the 38th and 39th chapters have two fulfilments?

I was under the impression that Gog's attack was the same as Joel's Northerner's attack, etc.
Also, being that Joel's account is the same period as the 42-months and during that time God's people are ruled over/captives and they are considered to be so until they are brought back on the low plain when the nations are gathered together for judgment, how can ANY other event be squeezed in after Joel's account?
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[Ezekiel 39:23 And the nations will have to know that it was because of their error that they, the house of Israel, went into exile, on account of the fact that they behaved unfaithfully toward me, so that I concealed my face from them and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they kept falling, all of them, by the sword.’ 24 I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their transgressions, and I hid my face from them.’]

[Luke 21: 23 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.]

[Revelation 11:2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.]

[Joel 2: 17 “Between the porch and the altar let the priests, the ministers of Jehovah, weep and say, ‘Do feel sorry, O Jehovah, for your people, and do not make your inheritance a reproach, for nations to rule over them. Why should they say among the peoples: “Where is their God?”’]

[Joel 3:1 “For, look! in those days and in that time, when I shall bring back the captive ones of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also collect together all the nations and bring them down to the low plain of Je·hoshʹa·phat; and I will put myself on judgment with them there on account of my people and my inheritance Israel, whom they scattered among the nations; and they apportioned out my own land.]
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In Joel’s account there is a Northerner. Gog is said to come from his place from the north – and someone coming from the north is referred to as a Northerner. (Ezekiel 38:15, Joel 2:20)

In both accounts gold, silver, property, wealth, other desirable things are robbed/taken. (Joel 3:5, Ezekiel 38:13)

Ezekiel’s account Jehovah brings Gog to attack his people due to their error/unfaithfulness/uncleanness/transgressions toward him. Joel’s account Jehovah’s people knowing that Jehovah brings the Northerner/nations upon them they repent and cry out to Jehovah for forgiveness. (Ezekiel 39:23,24; Joel 1:9,11,13,14; 2:12,13,17)

WTS speaking in regard to what can be expected from Gog’s future attack describes perfectly the symbolic language of the attack by the Northerner in Joel’s account.

[Restored At Last! p. 187-188 (speaking about Gog’s attack) – The nations may try to disrupt our way of life and stop us from carrying out our worship. To that end, perhaps they will try to interrupt the flow of spiritual food, prevent us from meeting together, break up the unity we enjoy, and stop us from zealously proclaiming God’s message.]

[Quote from “What the Future Holds” talk; speaking about Gog’s attack – “What’s the point? Brothers, we should expect them to despoil us of our human rights. We should expect them to confiscate all of Jehovah’s belongings and close down and take possession of all our branches, factories, depots, kingdom halls, assembly halls, everything. Don’t make any mistake about it. We are all in this together. We have a common enemy.”]

[Joel 1:10 The field has been despoiled, the ground has gone to mourning; for the grain has been despoiled, the new wine has been dried up, the oil has faded away. 11 Farmers have felt shame; vinedressers have howled, …the harvest of the field has perished.17 Dried figs have shriveled under their shovels. Storehouses have been laid desolate. Barns have been torn down, for the grain has dried up. 18 O how the domestic animal has sighed! How the droves of cattle have wandered in confusion! For there is no pasturage for them. Also, the droves of the sheep have been the ones made to bear guilt. 19 “To you, O Jehovah, I shall call; for fire itself has devoured the pasture grounds of the wilderness, and a very flame has consumed all the trees of the field. 20 The beasts of the field also keep longing for you, because the channels of water have dried up, and fire itself has devoured the pasture grounds of the wilderness.”]
 

Watchman

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Does this account with Gog in the 38th and 39th chapters have two fulfilments?

I was under the impression that Gog's attack was the same as Joel's Northerner's attack, etc.
Also, being that Joel's account is the same period as the 42-months and during that time God's people are ruled over/captives and they are considered to be so until they are brought back on the low plain when the nations are gathered together for judgment, how can ANY other event be squeezed in after Joel's account?
There are two attacks, not two fulfillments. The first one is sanctioned by Jehovah. The second one isn't. That is why, for example, in Joel, the attack of the northerner is called Jehovah's military force. But then God destroys the northerner. Afterward he pours out his spirit on those calling upon his name. Then, God calls in the nations to beat their plowshares into swords and come on down to the Valley of Jehosaphat to get things sorted out. That is an invitation (hooks in the jaw) to a second attack..
 
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Jodan

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There are two attacks, not two fulfillments.

So, for instance each one here is a different attack?

4 I will turn you around and put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in splendor, a vast assembly with large shields and bucklers, all of them wielding swords; 5 Persia, E·thi·oʹpi·a, and Put are with them, all of them with buckler and helmet; 6 Goʹmer and all its troops, the house of To·garʹmah from the remotest parts of the north, along with all its troops—many peoples are with you. 7 “‘“Be ready, prepare yourselves, you with all your armies that are assembled with you, and you will be their commander.
8 “‘“You will be given attention* after many days. In the final part of the years you will invade the land whose people have been restored from the ravages of the sword, collected together out of many peoples onto the mountains of Israel, which had long been lying devastated. The inhabitants of this land were restored from the peoples, and all of them dwell in security. 9 You will come against them like a storm, and you will cover the land like clouds, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.”’

16 Like clouds covering the land, you will come against my people Israel. In the final part of the days I will bring you against my land so that the nations may know me when I sanctify myself through you before their eyes, O Gog.”’... 18 “‘On that day, the day when Gog invades the land of Israel,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘my great rage will flare up. 19 In my zeal, in the fire of my fury, I will speak; and in that day there will be a great earthquake in the land of Israel.
 
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Watchman

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So, for instance each one here is a different attack?

4 I will turn you around and put hooks in your jaws and bring you out with all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in splendor, a vast assembly with large shields and bucklers, all of them wielding swords; 5 Persia, E·thi·oʹpi·a, and Put are with them, all of them with buckler and helmet; 6 Goʹmer and all its troops, the house of To·garʹmah from the remotest parts of the north, along with all its troops—many peoples are with you. 7 “‘“Be ready, prepare yourselves, you with all your armies that are assembled with you, and you will be their commander.
8 “‘“You will be given attention* after many days. In the final part of the years you will invade the land whose people have been restored from the ravages of the sword, collected together out of many peoples onto the mountains of Israel, which had long been lying devastated. The inhabitants of this land were restored from the peoples, and all of them dwell in security. 9 You will come against them like a storm, and you will cover the land like clouds, you and all your troops and many peoples with you.”’

16 Like clouds covering the land, you will come against my people Israel. In the final part of the days I will bring you against my land so that the nations may know me when I sanctify myself through you before their eyes, O Gog.”’... 18 “‘On that day, the day when Gog invades the land of Israel,’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘my great rage will flare up. 19 In my zeal, in the fire of my fury, I will speak; and in that day there will be a great earthquake in the land of Israel.
The prophecy in Ezekiel is a little different than Joel, although they are overlapping and complimentary. In Ezekiel, there was an historical setting. Israel had been conquered by Babylon, as Jehovah had foretold through the prophets. But God then restored them to their homeland, repurchasing them from captivity. That actually happened. It is after Israel is restored and the dry bones come to life that Gog attacks the seemingly defenseless nation. That, of course, did not have an historical fulfillment. It is reserved for the final part of the days.
 
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Jodan

Guest
But then God destroys the northerner.

How/in what way can/will he destroy the Northerner prior to Armageddon?
Aren't the forces that make the Northerner the forces of Gog?
Aren't these the forces of the 8th king/wild beast, that get destroyed at Armageddon?

19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army.+ 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet+ that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast+ and those who worship its image.+ While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur.+ 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse.+ And all the birds were filled with their flesh.+

(Come to think about it, aren't the Northerner and Gog the wild beast/8th king?)
 
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StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
When does the sealing take place? And how? When Christ manifests to the anointed? At the time of the sealing, is that when the anointed with also have a transfiguration of sorts?
 
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Jodan

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The prophecy in Ezekiel is a little different than Joel
There are two attacks, not two fulfillments.
IDK, I am just not seeing how that could be, based on reasoning on what I am reading. Taking further what I already said in post #6 and #10.
We know that the attack from the Northerner takes place during the 42-months of the wild beast/8th king. And according to what you confirmed (if I understood you correctly) is that first attack of Gog's is also this time period, but then there will be another from Gog.

So first I want to just list the first attack:

Wild beast
[Rev 13:5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven. 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation...10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

Gog
[Ezekiel 39:23 And the nations will have to know that it was because of their error that they, the house of Israel, went into exile, on account of the fact that they behaved unfaithfully toward me, so that I concealed my face from them and gave them into the hand of their adversaries, and they kept falling, all of them, by the sword.’ 24 I dealt with them according to their uncleanness and their transgressions, and I hid my face from them.’]

Disgusting thing
[Luke 21: 23 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.]
[Revelation 11:2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.]

Northerner
[Joel 2: 17 “Between the porch and the altar let the priests, the ministers of Jehovah, weep and say, ‘Do feel sorry, O Jehovah, for your people, and do not make your inheritance a reproach, for nations to rule over them. Why should they say among the peoples: “Where is their God?”’]

Because this is the time period of the 42-months of the wild beast/8th king, then the Disgusting thing/Gog/Northerner can't be different entities from the 8th king. And because the wild beast/8th king is not thrown into the fiery lake until Jesus comes at Armageddon and the kings of the earth and their armies that are supporters of the wild beast also get killed then at that time, there cannot be the destroying of the Northerner before Armageddon.

[19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.]

Also, I don't see how there could be a 2nd attack by Gog after his first attack of the captivity/exile/nations ruling over for 42-months, because according to Joel's account, the captive's ones are brought back at the point in time that the nations will then be judged and it makes clear that the very reason Jehovah is against the nations is on account of them ruling over his people.

Also, it doesn't seem any restoration can be made during post-GT and pre-Armageddon time, it must be done post-Armageddon. For the same reason that when the 42-months captivity ends it leads right into the captive ones down on the low plain with the nations then being judged.

And is the wild beast/8th king after forcing his mark for 42-months just supposed to let out of captivity all who had been refusing it and say hey you no longer need to take it to buy and sell and here is everything back that I took from you, and then after a few months or so come back and try to take it all back again?

[Joel 2: 17 ‘Do feel sorry, O Jehovah, for your people, and do not make your inheritance a reproach, for nations to rule over them. Why should they say among the peoples: “Where is their God?”’]
[Joel 3:1 “For, look! in those days and in that time, when I shall bring back the captive ones of Judah and Jerusalem, 2 I will also collect together all the nations and bring them down to the low plain of Je·hoshʹa·phat; and I will put myself on judgment with them there on account of my people and my inheritance Israel, whom they scattered among the nations; and they apportioned out my own land.]

No doubt though, the GT/42-months when the mark is given out is a time of cleansings for those that refuse it. They will make up the great crowd and those who rule with Jesus. All who refuse the mark will be wheat/sheep/righteous ones, getting everlasting life. All the take the mark will be weeds/goats/wicked ones getting everlasting cutoff.

[7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation....10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

[9 “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image and whoever receives the mark of its name. 12 Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.”]

[4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years]

[2... those who are victorious over the wild beast and its image and the number of its name were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps of God.]

[9 a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues,
standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.....14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.]

[5 The one who conquers will thus be dressed in white garments, and I will by no means blot out his name from the book of life, but I will acknowledge his name before my Father and before his angels.]

[20 the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.]
 
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Jodan

Guest
We do? I never said that. Who is "we"?

You said the following:

Chapter 2 – The GENTILE TIMES

Since “no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation,” as the apostle Peter wrote, God’s own word must interpret itself. Consider: In the book of Revelation, which was written over twenty years after Jerusalem was trampled upon by the Romans, Christ revealed that there is indeed an appointed time for the nations to trample God’s holy place. The appointed time is forty-two months. Revelation 11:2-3 states: “But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, cast it clear out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.”

Forty-two months and 1,260 days are the equivalent of three and a-half years. The prophecy in the seventh chapter of Daniel similarly foretold a three and one-half year period during which time the sons of the kingdom would be trampled down by the wild beast.

The desolation of Jerusalem by the Northerner

And make no mistake: The prophecy of Joel pertains to the destruction of the city of Jerusalem. That is evident by what is stated in the third chapter of Joel —“For look! in those days and in that time, when I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather together all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. I will enter into judgment with them there in behalf of my people and my inheritance Israel, for they scattered them among the nations, and they divided up my land among themselves. For my people they cast lots; they would trade a boy to hire a prostitute and sell a girl for wine to drink.”

Since the re-gathering of the captives of Judah and Jerusalem occurs as an immediate precursor to the gathering of the nations to the Valley of Jehoshaphat for the final judgment —an analogy that parallels the gathering of the nations to the place known as Armageddon —this means that the inhabitants of symbolic Jerusalem are yet to go into captivity and be scattered. And is not the desolation of Jerusalem the central feature of Christ’s extensive prophecy regarding the conclusion of the system of things? And did not Jesus also speak of the gathering of the chosen ones? Does not their being gathered indicate they must first be scattered?

In the gospel of Luke Jesus spoke of this captivity, saying: “And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.”

We may be certain that when the apostles asked Jesus when the holy city and the temple were going to be destroyed they did not for one moment imagine that the trampling of Jerusalem by the nations had already begun or that the appointed times of the nations to trample upon God’s city began when Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judah. They wanted to know the future. They already knew the past.

And while they could not possibly have discerned the ultimate fulfillment of what Jesus said regarding the desolation of Jerusalem during a great tribulation that is destined to come upon the entire inhabited earth, there is no excuse for Jehovah’s Witnesses to any longer be ignorant regarding these vital details of the outworking of God’s purpose.

For a fact, the appointed times of the nations to trample Jerusalem parallel the years the locusts bring devastation upon Jerusalem. The 11th chapter of Revelation reveals the exact number of years that the nations will trample the holy city —it is three and a half years. For your convenience here is what is stated: “But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months.”

The Mortal Wound and the Parousia

The Scriptures indicate that the recovery of the mortally-wounded beast initiates judgment day —otherwise known as the hour of test that is coming upon the entire inhabited earth.

The hour of test will determine the eternal destiny of every person alive. The Holy Scriptures describe it this way: “I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been fatally wounded, but its mortal wound had been healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. And they worshipped the dragon because it gave the authority to the wild beast, and they worshipped the wild beast with the words: “Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?” It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his name and his dwelling place, even those residing in heaven. It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. And all those who dwell on the earth will worship it. From the founding of the world, not one of their names has been written in the scroll of life of the Lamb who was slaughtered.”...

...It should be obvious, but unfortunately, it is not, there is no way that the head of the beast has already been slaughtered. If it had, if the Watchtower is right, that would mean that everyone for the past several generations who have supported the political system in any way has already been sentenced to everlasting death. That is what the 666 mark of the beast signifies. It is an indelible, irreversible, symbolic tattoo, that marks the recipient as deserving of permanent death.

Incredibly, the WT says this marking has already begun —starting in 1922! But if that were true, why are Jehovah’s Witnesses preaching to the doomed? How would it even be possible for the millions of marked people to repent and become Christians? It is not possible. That is the whole point of the hour of test. And if you want to accept it, the hour of test is the 42 months.

Is the United Nations an 8th King?

The bottom line is, these are not “the final part of the final part of the days.” The time of the end will be marked by the overthrow of the nation-state system— the end of America, democracy, freedom and all of that. Only in the aftermath of the crash will the United Nations emerge as the eighth king and be empowered to bring about the anticipated destruction of Babylon the Great.

The Watchtower and the disgusting thing

Jesus connected the disgusting thing standing in a holy place with the great tribulation. And immediately prior to the great tribulation Jesus said that nation will rise against nation, kingdom against kingdom; there will be food shortages and earthquakes here and there and that these things are the beginning of pangs of distress….

...At some point in the not-to-distant future civilization is going to come crashing down. From the wreckage will emerge the eighth king and then the trampling will begin.

Comment on the Watchtower’s fresh insight on Joel

[25:22 - 27:04] “Nothing like this has ever happened before or will ever happen again"...well that's the very same terminology that Jesus used when speaking about the GT...'nothing like it has ever occurred before or will ever occur again”…and didn't Jesus also say...that Jerusalem would be devastated, desolate during the tribulation…that's his congregation...his holy place...that's why Christians are told to put on sackcloth and go into morning…oh you know there is a interesting parallel to that too in the 11th chapter of Rev...the two witnesses come along dressed in sackcloth and a few verses before when we are introduced to them, the holy city is trampled underfoot...for how long...42 months.. when Jehovah comes to compensate his people for the loss brought upon them by this Northerner...he says I will compensate you for THE YEARS that the locust devastated you...THE YEARS...how many years is that…nobody knows…No...I do (HA HA) …3 1/2 years.
 
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SusanB

Well-known member
We is we and you.

You said:


QUOTE - And make no mistake: The prophecy of Joel pertains to the destruction of the city of Jerusalem. That is evident by what is stated in the third chapter of Joel —“For look! in those days and in that time, when I bring back the captives of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather together all the nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. I will enter into judgment with them there in behalf of my people and my inheritance Israel, for they scattered them among the nations, and they divided up my land among themselves. For my people they cast lots; they would trade a boy to hire a prostitute and sell a girl for wine to drink.”

Since the re-gathering of the captives of Judah and Jerusalem occurs as an immediate precursor to the gathering of the nations to the Valley of Jehoshaphat for the final judgment —an analogy that parallels the gathering of the nations to the place known as Armageddon —this means that the inhabitants of symbolic Jerusalem are yet to go into captivity and be scattered. And is not the desolation of Jerusalem the central feature of Christ’s extensive prophecy regarding the conclusion of the system of things? And did not Jesus also speak of the gathering of the chosen ones? Does not their being gathered indicate they must first be scattered?

In the gospel of Luke Jesus spoke of this captivity, saying: “And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.”

We may be certain that when the apostles asked Jesus when the holy city and the temple were going to be destroyed they did not for one moment imagine that the trampling of Jerusalem by the nations had already begun or that the appointed times of the nations to trample upon God’s city began when Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judah. They wanted to know the future. They already knew the past.

And while they could not possibly have discerned the ultimate fulfillment of what Jesus said regarding the desolation of Jerusalem during a great tribulation that is destined to come upon the entire inhabited earth, there is no excuse for Jehovah’s Witnesses to any longer be ignorant regarding these vital details of the outworking of God’s purpose.

For a fact, the appointed times of the nations to trample Jerusalem parallel the years the locusts bring devastation upon Jerusalem. The 11th chapter of Revelation reveals the exact number of years that the nations will trample the holy city —it is three and a half years. For your convenience here is what is stated: “But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months.” – END QUOTE
It’s so hard to follow your reasoning. I mean I’d have to read the entire article and then I still don’t understand your point.
 
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