Governing Body update #2 March 2024

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Yo me bauticé con 12 años y era lo habitual. A los 18 tras pasar el pasaje del terror congregacional, me intenté suicidar y dejé la WT. Cuando Robert escribió su libro no me digas como lo encontré, pero retomé el estudio profundo en la Biblia y las reservas de fe explotaron. Y aquí estamos, a Dios gracias!! A veces cuando se pierde, se gana!!❤️
Translation: I was baptised at the age of 12 and it was the usual. At 18 after passing the passage of congregational terror, I tried to commit suicide and left the WT. When Robert wrote his book, don't tell me how I found it, but I resumed the deep study in the Bible and the reserves of faith exploded. And here we are, thank God!! Sometimes when you lose, you win!! ❤️
 

mts

Well-known member
The elders should let the parents of young people have some say about their child being baptized. You know your children ! Did you get baptized or did he hold off?
That's a good point @Charming Primrose about Elder's letting the parents have some say about their child being baptized. Had a case where a brother was being considered to be appointed an elder and question's arose, and I wasn't in agreement as it felt rushed, he wasn't really reaching out and other relevant factors just weren't manifest. Nonetheless, since the majority went along, agreed to let it proceed. The CO did not approve him. Come to find out his own wife expressed she did not see him in that capacity and that was a big factor in he not being recommended. In general, elders should or do speak with the parents, but most parents are giddy that their child has expressed this interest, so parents likely minimize negative factors about their child. Nonetheless, parent's should be honest about their children's readiness.

I've considered baptism questions with several who've expressed this desire, young and old, and typically, it's the heart condition that I focus on. Do they love God? Are they expressing that in their responses? Doctrinal matters and org academics, well, that should be known at a basic level, but I remember one instance where a sister only had a middle-school level education and had difficulty answering the questions well. Nonetheless, her lifestyle, answers and actions did manifest a love for Jah, so, my opinion was she was ready. The other elder with me disagreed. A third elder reviewed Q&A with her and agreed with me. She's doing great 'till this day in all the aspects that the org expects.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
🥵 I heard that statement a few times. I could never get over how insensitive the organisation could make some brothers and sisters. I remember my gran looked after my grandad and his health was so she could not leave him for the two hours. She hadn't been for about a year - and all they kept saying is that she had left the Truth. My mum wasnt having any of this. She told them that she has never left the Truth but to leave a dying husband who could easily choke to death would be blood guilty as a wife. I think going through the the Second World War, and having no Wealthfare system made them stronger and would argue with the elders. They were strong woman who wouldn't be stumbled.
I believe that was the reason why I never let the elders intimidate me. I’d already been through so much family drama that their insensitivities I could expect. This one particular elder in our congregation was and is an arrogant narcissist. My husband and I talked to him about a situation concerning our youngest son who was going through some serious issues so we allowed him to stay with us. The elder insisted it was wrong and as I started to explain the situation he butted in and started saying how he knew how boys were because of having raised his. I butted in on him and said sternly, “would you please let me finish speaking brother___!”
He shut up just like that. To me he was speaking out of turn like our situation was like his experience with his children.
Wer’re not cookie cutter Christians.
 

Proverbs 14 v 15

Well-known member
Jesus set the example for baptism. Was he 30 years old when he was?
WT is more interested in having the appearance of being a growing organization than whether anyone is truly ready for taking that big step.
Anyone can fake their way through the whole JW 100 question process just as a student passing a test for school. Like a dog doing tricks to impress the elders. Is it still 100 questions? Shows how long I’ve been out.
Young folks have a lot of growing up to do before making such a decision. Get things out of their system.
Exactly.. we're not the same person from 12 to 14, 14 to 16 etc. I've always brought out that point about Jesus being 30 when he got baptised. If it was that important then he would have got baptised a lot younger..
 

Proverbs 14 v 15

Well-known member
I believe that was the reason why I never let the elders intimidate me. I’d already been through so much family drama that their insensitivities I could expect. This one particular elder in our congregation was and is an arrogant narcissist. My husband and I talked to him about a situation concerning our youngest son who was going through some serious issues so we allowed him to stay with us. The elder insisted it was wrong and as I started to explain the situation he butted in and started saying how he knew how boys were because of having raised his. I butted in on him and said sternly, “would you please let me finish speaking brother___!”
He shut up just like that. To me he was speaking out of turn like our situation was like his experience with his children.
Wer’re not cookie cutter Christians.
Cookie cutter Christians 😂 I like it 😁
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Exactly.. we're not the same person from 12 to 14, 14 to 16 etc. I've always brought out that point about Jesus being 30 when he got baptised. If it was that important then he would have got baptised a lot younger..
And we remember how spiritual Jesus was at 12 years of age….Mary and Joseph had lost him but then found him in the temple. Luke 2:46;47 goes on to say: “Well, after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers and listening to them and questioning them. 47 But all those listening to him were in constant amazement at his understanding and his answers.”

According to WT Jesus would’ve been qualified to be baptized but he wasn’t baptized until 18 years later. That being so, the elders would probably have counseled Mary and Joseph about not allowing their son to be baptized.
 

J&P

Well-known member
Back in the 80s in Texas, you had to have an annual vehicle inspection. I drove an old pickup truck and for some reason (I can't remember) it didn't pass inspection. Anyway, it was the only vehicle I had at the time so I drove to the Kingdom Hall to meet for field service. As the group is in the parking lot dispersing to go the territories the visiting circuit overseer notices the expired inspection sticker on the windshield of my junker. He went ballistic. He ordered me to get in my truck and immediately drive home and not drive it again until I was legal.
Back in the 70's, we hauled semi loads of donated fruits and vegetables out of Sourh Florida to Walkill on a regular basis. On one of those deliveries to Walkill, I was asked if I would be willing to drive a mid-size truck which had been donated by a brother from Immokalee, Florida to Walkill. Of course, the truck needed fuel permits for each state it would be driven through. The brothers at Walkill didn't want to have to pay for the cost of the permits that were required to be legal . When I told them that I knew where all the check points were so it shouldn't be a problem for me to get the truck to Walkill if I avoided the inspection stations. Their response was an implied thumbs up but added, we don't want to know any of the details - just get it here. 🙉🙈

Guess the organization is not as unified in their thinking as they would like us to believe.
Legal - Illegal???
Depends on the situation and if it works to their advantage!
 
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StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
Back in the 70's, we hauled semi loads of donated fruits and vegetables out of Sourh Florida to Walkill on a regular basis. On one of those deliveries to Walkill, I was asked if I would be willing to drive a mid-size truck which had been donated by a brother from Immokalee, Florida to Walkill. Of course, the truck needed fuel permits for each state it would be driven through. The brothers at Walkill didn't want to have to pay for the cost of the permits that were required to be legal . When I told them that I knew where all the check points were so it shouldn't be a problem for me to get the truck to Walkill if I avoided the inspection stations. Their response was an implied thumbs up but added, we don't want to know any of the details - just get it here. 🙉🙈

Guess the organization is not as unified in their thinking as they would like us to believe.
Legal - Illegal???
Depends on the situation and if it works to their advantage!
Have you seen the interview Lloyd Evans did with the ex-Bethelite who blew the whistle on WT who forced him to bury toxic ink into the ground and then to not tell anyone about it? He finally left the organization and turned them in.
 

Melinda

Well-known member
Have you seen the interview Lloyd Evans did with the ex-Bethelite who blew the whistle on WT who forced him to bury toxic ink into the ground and then to not tell anyone about it? He finally left the organization and turned them in.
I am not doubting that this is true, I am sure it is....but anything that comes from Lloyd Evans I have to pinch my nose....because everything about Lloyd Evans stinks.
 

J&P

Well-known member
Have you seen the interview Lloyd Evans did with the ex-Bethelite who blew the whistle on WT who forced him to bury toxic ink into the ground and then to not tell anyone about it? He finally left the organization and turned them in.
No, I haven't seen it. Agree with Melinda on Lloyd Evans but thanks for sharing that tidbit of information.
However, it serves them right. So hypocritical. Clean on the outside but not so much on the inside!

Sometimes their shenanigans remind me of...
(Matthew 23:27) . . .which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness.
 
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StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
No, I haven't seen it. Agree with Melinda on Lloyd Evans.
However, it serves them right. So hypocritical. Clean on the outside but not so much on the inside!

Sometimes their shenanigans remind me of...
(Matthew 23:27) . . .which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of every sort of uncleanness.
And they have to gall to go door to door preaching a paradise and how they are going to be the ones to restore the polluted earth back to a paradise while doing that.....
 

Paula

Well-known member
I believe that was the reason why I never let the elders intimidate me. I’d already been through so much family drama that their insensitivities I could expect. This one particular elder in our congregation was and is an arrogant narcissist. My husband and I talked to him about a situation concerning our youngest son who was going through some serious issues so we allowed him to stay with us. The elder insisted it was wrong and as I started to explain the situation he butted in and started saying how he knew how boys were because of having raised his. I butted in on him and said sternly, “would you please let me finish speaking brother___!”
He shut up just like that. To me he was speaking out of turn like our situation was like his experience with his children.
Wer’re not cookie cutter Christians.
We are definitely notcookie cutter Christian's. There are so many episodes that I could be so down on. However I would like to balance with the good times. Before telephones or our reliance on them so much. Mum always put pioneers up just like that. There was a pioneer couple who knocked on our door they had cycled on aTandom from London and happened to ask at the Post Office if they knew of any JWs - my mums name always came up. The pioneer couple stayed for a week and it just happened to be the assembly. Not many in Congregation would have dropped everything. When mum and dad were dying the brothers and sisters helped. Mum was dying of Cancer and I was working night shifts and sisters stayed with her for the night. For me the love for each other was more important than the preaching. Without the love you couldn't sustain the preaching work.
 

LuisMerino9412

Well-known member
I hope those whom Bro Sanderson is addressing repent and come to their senses. However, the GB surely knows that a growing number of JWs are leaving, becoming inactive and disassociating themselves, not because they want to practice something sinful, but because they have become sickened by the Watchtower's hypocrisy. According to Jehovah's denunciation of the shepherds in the 34th chapter of Ezekiel, God's piercing vision sees that the shepherds are feeders of themselves. "You have not strengthened the weak or healed the sick or bandaged the injured or brought back the strays or looked for the lost; rather, you have ruled them with harshness and tyranny."

Consider the tens of thousands of children who have been sexually abused. Has the Governing Body ever reached out to them? Has there ever been a word of apology for keeping pedophiles from prosecution and knowingly appointing pedophiles as overseers as long as the congregation is unaware that a sexual predator is counted as their elder? Many of Jehovah's Witnesses have been deeply disturbed by the Governing Body's glowing endorsement of the vaccines. This Update would have been an appropriate venue for Brother Sanderson to confess his sin and repent and apologize for imparting Jehovah's blessing to a scheme that is killing people. How can the Governing Body appeal to the multitudes to come back when they are responsible for driving them away?

By the way, Brother Sanderson, about the 11-minute mark you stated matter-of-factly that anyone who has been away from the congregation for a considerable time would no doubt be very weak spiritually. It has been nearly 20 years for me and I do not at all consider myself to be spiritually weak. On the contrary, Jehovah has stood by me like a terrible mighty one. I truly admonish every one of the Governing Body and their Helpers to repent before the master arrives to clean house.
There have been many cases of sexual abuse, but the abuse is not only sexual. I was abused by an elder when I was a child. He acted severely against me. I was only 12 years old. My heart was broken and it still hurts because of that and other things. I could not stop crying. He said hurtful things too. Maybe he did not do that with a bad intention, but that created a trauma in me. It made me believe that Jehovah was a cruel and unreachable God in some way. It was horrible and awful for me and my relationship with Him. I have tried to get over that, but I'm just mentioning it to show that the abuse inside the org against children is real. It's not only sexual, but it has many forms. I can only imagine how many children have felt the same way. I was going to get baptized back then and I could not. He even forced me to do and say things I did not want to do or say. I was terrified. If I felt that, I can't imagine how the victims of sexual abuse have felt. It's horrible!
Pd: He acted like that against me, but when someone was disfellowshipped for fornication, he cried... Favoritism? :/
 
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Jeremiah17:5

Well-known member
Found someone on Reddit that had a great find of articles... This specifically has to do with the disfellowshipped policy flip flopping .


pp. 21 "For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.” (2 John 9-11) Do the apostle’s words here necessarily apply to all persons who are put out of the congregation for wrongdoing? Or do they necessarily rule out any speaking of words of reproof or exhortation to a disfellowshiped person"

pp. 22 "John gives the warning to be on guard and not to receive such ones into one’s home, for these are active propagandists of false teachings, deceitful advocates of wrong conduct. They should be given no foothold from which to make further infiltration. One should not even greet them"

"The Christian certainly would not want to wish peace to the man who was a deceiver and an antichrist. There is, however, nothing to show that Jews with a balanced and Scriptural viewpoint would refuse to greet a “man of the nations” or a tax collector. Jesus’ counsel about greetings, in connection with his exhortation to imitate God in his undeserved kindness toward “wicked people and good,” would seem to rule against such a rigid stand.—Matt. 5:45-48."

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r...s/watchtower/the-watchtower-1981/september-15
p 24-25 "The apostle who gave that wise warning was close to Jesus and knew well what Christ had said about greeting others." "And we all know from our experience over the years that a simple “Hello” to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"


"Therefore the members of the congregation will not associate with the disfellowshiped one, either in the Kingdom Hall or elsewhere. They will not converse with such one or show him recognition in any way. If the disfellowshiped person attempts to talk to others in the congregation, they should walk away from him."
"a person has been disfellowshiped and attempts to talk to that one, other brothers observing will tactfully inform him of the situation. Also, the disfellowshiped person who wants to do what is right should inform any approaching him in innocence that he is disfellowshiped and they should not be conversing with him."

So to put it all together ... in 1963 we were not too talk to this disfellowshipped person at all... not even to converse or acknowledge in any way...In fact we cut become a sharer in his wicked works by doing so....
In 1974 we had "New Light" which looks a lot like the "new light" we just received... which is more of a softening stand or less rigid...not wishing peace to an apostate or deceiver or antichrist.
and then back to 1981 we flipflopped back to a "simple hello" which would be the first step to a friendship with a disfellowshipped person.

Some of the comments referred to the fact that it may have had a lot to do with fred franz disfellowshipping in 1982 and the 1975 debacle.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
There have been many cases of sexual abuse, but the abuse is not only sexual. I was abused by an elder when I was a child. He acted severely against me. I was only 12 years old. My heart was broken and it still hurts because of that and other things. I could not stop crying. He said hurtful things too. Maybe he did not do that with a bad intention, but that created a trauma in me. It made me believe that Jehovah was a cruel and unreachable God in some way. It was horrible and awful for me and my relationship with Him. I have tried to get over that, but I'm just mentioning it to show that the abuse inside the org against children is real. It's not only sexual, but it has many forms. I can only imagine how many children have felt the same way. I was going to get baptized back then and I could not. He even forced me to do and say things I did not want to do or say. I was terrified. If I felt that, I can't imagine how the victims of sexual abuse have felt. It's horrible!
Pd: He acted like that against me, but when someone was disfellowshipped for fornication, he cried... Favoritism? :/
Believe this story or not there was a family that were close friends of the elders. We were friends of that family too. Their kids were around the same age as my youngest son. We’d go over there and have the WT study to review before Sunday. We also had their boys come over to swim in our pool.

So my son tells me one day that his friend was wanting him to do sexual acts to him. I couldn’t understand where this child was learning this.We went to the elders, had a meeting with them and the family. By the time we came out of that meeting the elders made us feel like we were troublemakers…implying that we were lying. This was no lie. Why would an 8 year old make a story up about a friend of his. It bothered him and he didn’t understand.

We kept away from the family and our kids weren’t allowed to go around them anymore.
 

Proverbs 14 v 15

Well-known member
Believe this story or not there was a family that were close friends of the elders. We were friends of that family too. Their kids were around the same age as my youngest son. We’d go over there and have the WT study to review before Sunday. We also had their boys come over to swim in our pool.

So my son tells me one day that his friend was wanting him to do sexual acts to him. I couldn’t understand where this child was learning this.We went to the elders, had a meeting with them and the family. By the time we came out of that meeting the elders made us feel like we were troublemakers…implying that we were lying. This was no lie. Why would an 8 year old make a story up about a friend of his. It bothered him and he didn’t understand.

We kept away from the family and our kids weren’t allowed to go around them anymore.
You probably had a lucky escape!
 

NinevehByWayOfTarshish

Well-known member
I agree.

I disagree. Women in the main don't wear trousers to look like men. It is usually for comfort, practicality and style. Dresses and skirts dont suit all body types, and the fact that they only approve certain styles makes it harder. Trousers have been considered unisex for decades, and the trousers we wear are designed for women not men. If I was still in, I would probably consider this change a blessing.

I visited a congregation in the Outer Hebrides, Scotland in 2018, and the sisters there were so excited that they had been given a special dispensation by the circuit overseer to wear trousers on the ministry because of the cold, rainy, windy climate.
Fairplay sister,

I'm happy that sisters are more comfortable, and I've talked to my wife, her friends, my sister, and my mom. The opinions very so far. But they all agreed that in the ministry it would be easier, more comfortable, and safer. Safer is something I had not considered, forgive the happy ignorance of a man please. So, I've changed my mind for ministry, but I'm still gut level instinct still says there's something off about blending attire for worship.

Let me explain, because I realize I didn't get a chance to even mention, I also very much oppose the no tie or jacket thing for brothers too. Just as much as I am resistant to sisters in pants. I ask myself, if I had to go to court, or to meet a high official or monarch, would I not wear my best suit and tie? Of course. So I also very much oppose no ties and jackets. In fact, I oppose that more than sisters with slacks.


Allow me to further explain my resistance to slack on sisters for worship. At my midweek meeting, many sisters wore pants, two of them went further than that already, they not only wore pants they wore dress shirts with vests, one indeed wore a tie. They looked strikingly androgenous. That was only the first meeting, now that door has been opened how much more masculine are sisters going to become? Some may ask, who cares?

I think God does, he made us make and female, he gave us distinct and uniquely wonderful roles that accentuate and compliment each other. I think any more to diminish our divinely special characteristics, is an assault on Jehovah's righteous way.
We see this in the world around us, the trans movement is growing ever more popular and powerful. They've subverted God rainbow already, making a mockery of it. Should we let them subvert our Creator's purpose further? These issues are destined to clash with us as Christians. Should we try to be more like Satan's gender bending system? I personally think not. And I think this is a step towards a slippery slope that will only confuse and mislead more sheep.


Perhaps I am being very stuffy and conservative. I pray I am wrong. Thank you for your perspective.
 
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