Greetings!

Back to True Worship

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Greetings! I am from east, not englishman.
I am born Jw, and grew up among TF-JW.
Regarding faith, the last 20 years of my life I lived in association with an anointed brother living in the same town with me.
During this period of time I have heard and learn new things from Bible, things which were brought to attention to the brother I mentioned, by Holy Spirit.
This brother ended his earthly life recently.
Interesting , your blog on the kingdom, I do feel your bit off with regard to interpretation of scripture , and of course , it is your right to express yourself. We should not discount the Ps. 110 which clearly identifies Christ in his heavenly position at God's right hand ....awaiting ...the time when Jehovah will install him as king. Which will indeed be very soon if it has not already happened...but we will soon know for sure as the ride of the horsemen continues...Let us be patient and await upon Jehovah. All of Christs brothers were told by Jesus that it does not belong to them to get to know the times and seasons when the kingdom would be born, we simply have to wait and share the Good News of the Kingdom with all whom we meet and even make time to share it, looking for opportunities as Christ himself did when upon the earth and when he commissioned the apostles and 70 others.
 

Back to True Worship

Well-known member
My concern is that we place too much emphasis on dates and predictions; and whether or not we are right....what Jesus said is of benefit to us, that we should not concern ourselves with a date but we certainly can keep in expectation of his arrival and AT THAT TIME be found ready and faithful...dates are really useless and made only for self exaltation and control over others. But loving Christ and recognizing his role in Jehovah's arrangement is of upmost importance and being foot step followers will allow us to be found ready.
 
Interesting , your blog on the kingdom, I do feel your bit off with regard to interpretation of scripture , and of course , it is your right to express yourself. We should not discount the Ps. 110 which clearly identifies Christ in his heavenly position at God's right hand ....awaiting ...the time when Jehovah will install him as king. Which will indeed be very soon if it has not already happened...but we will soon know for sure as the ride of the horsemen continues...Let us be patient and await upon Jehovah. All of Christs brothers were told by Jesus that it does not belong to them to get to know the times and seasons when the kingdom would be born, we simply have to wait and share the Good News of the Kingdom with all whom we meet and even make time to share it, looking for opportunities as Christ himself did when upon the earth and when he commissioned the apostles and 70 others.
Greetings, Back to True Worship!
You have well identified that the members of Jehovah's people have departed from true worship...

Now, it seem that I am not sure what you wanted to say with: "We should not discount the Ps. 110 which clearly identifies Christ in his heavenly position at God's right hand ....awaiting ...the time when Jehovah will install him as king."

I am not sure what you understood reading from my blog
in my blog I stated what Jesus and the apostles said regarding Jesus being exalted at Father's Right side, which means installing Him as King - fact that occured short before the Pentecosta. At His resurrection, Jesus said He has (already then) received ALL authority in Heavens and earth
So, from that time He is King in Heavens also over earth, fully using His authority in Heavens but not on (or over) earth, still waiting the Father's command for starting to use it over earth. Psalm 2, 110.
The brothers explanations (Wt) written around a century ago, have connected the first ww with Jesus being exalted and made King at that time, in Heavens and on earth, wich is not correct according to the teaching of Christ .
Of course my mind associates Jesus using His authority over earth with the coming of God's Kingdom on earth, thing that is yet future, as long as Jesus' words are still valid for us: "Let your kingdom come" ...

Regarding chronology, I was not trying to guess the "end" of this world (the time of physical annihilation of evildoers), but, using the datas given in prophecies, to find the time of Judgement that begins from Jehovah's House .
There are also two datas (the signification of 1290 and 1335 days) of which we have to wait for clarification.
 
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Ana

Well-known member
¡Saludos, de regreso a la Adoración Verdadera!
Bien habéis identificado que los miembros del pueblo de Jehová se han apartado de la adoración verdadera...

Ahora, parece que no estoy seguro de lo que querías decir con: "No debemos descartar el Salmo 110 que claramente identifica a Cristo en su posición celestial a la diestra de Dios... esperando... el tiempo cuando Jehová instalarlo como rey".

No estoy seguro de lo que entendiste leyendo de mi blog.
en mi blog expuse lo que Jesús y los apóstoles dijeron acerca de Jesús siendo exaltado a la derecha del Padre, lo que significa instalarlo como Rey - hecho que ocurrió poco antes de Pentecostés. En Su resurrección, Jesús dijo que (ya entonces) ha recibido TODA autoridad en los Cielos y la tierra
Entonces, desde ese momento Él es Rey en los Cielos también sobre la tierra, pero todavía no está usando esa autoridad, sino que espera el mandato del Padre para comenzar a usarla sobre la tierra.
Las explicaciones de los hermanos (Wt) escritas hace alrededor de un siglo, han conectado la primera ww con Jesús siendo exaltado y hecho Rey en ese momento, en los Cielos y en la tierra, lo cual no es correcto según la enseñanza de Cristo.
Por supuesto, mi mente asocia a Jesús usando Su autoridad sobre la tierra con la venida del Reino de Dios en la tierra, cosa que aún es futura, mientras las palabras de Jesús sigan siendo válidas para nosotros: "Venga tu reino"...

En cuanto a la cronología, no estaba tratando de adivinar el "fin" de este mundo (el tiempo de la aniquilación física de los malhechores), sino, usando los datos dados en las profecías, encontrar el tiempo del Juicio que comienza desde la Casa de Jehova
También hay dos datos (el significado de 1290 y 1335 días) de los cuales tenemos que esperar para aclarar.
Hola, tanto tiempo! Me alegra volver a verte por aquí!! Cómo te trata este viejo mundo? Te mando saludos!! Qué la paz del Señor este contigo, hermano!!
 

Ana

Well-known member
Hola Ana. ¿Cómo estás? Mucho tiempo desde que te vi por aquí. Hola Ana. ¿Cómo estás? Hace mucho tiempo que no te vi aquí.
Hola Barbaby the dog. Camino sutil por aquí. He estado ocupada al cuidado de mis padres y su Alzeimer. Ya de vuelta en mi hogar dulce hogar, vuelvo a coger fuerzas con el estudio y la oracion. Todo va muy bien, dentro de lo bien que se puede estar en este sistema. Llenando la mochila de fe y amor con las lámparas encendidas. Con Jehová bien al lado, apartando demonios. Cómo estás tú?
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Hola Barbaby the dog. Camino sutil por aquí. He estado ocupada al cuidado de mis padres y su Alzeimer. Ya de vuelta en mi hogar dulce hogar, vuelvo a coger fuerzas con el estudio y la oracion. Todo va muy bien, dentro de lo bien que se puede estar en este sistema. Llenando la mochila de fe y amor con las lámparas encendidas. Con Jehová bien al lado, apartando demonios. Cómo estás tú?
Sorry to hear of your parent’s health problems. I hope you get the strength to manage. It is a difficult but rewarding task to care for an ill relative. Jehovah will bless your efforts and remember to take care of yourself!. Best wishes.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
My concern is that we place too much emphasis on dates and predictions; and whether or not we are right....what Jesus said is of benefit to us, that we should not concern ourselves with a date but we certainly can keep in expectation of his arrival and AT THAT TIME be found ready and faithful...dates are really useless and made only for self exaltation and control over others. But loving Christ and recognizing his role in Jehovah's arrangement is of upmost importance and being foot step followers will allow us to be found ready.
Jehovah may not have given us dates to follow but he did give us a marker to put us in proximity of where we're at, in the sequence of events that will unfold ( or is unfolding? ) Rev 17:10, 11. "...but when he arrives he must remain a short while..."
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
My concern is that we place too much emphasis on dates and predictions; and whether or not we are right....what Jesus said is of benefit to us, that we should not concern ourselves with a date but we certainly can keep in expectation of his arrival and AT THAT TIME be found ready and faithful...dates are really useless and made only for self exaltation and control over others. But loving Christ and recognizing his role in Jehovah's arrangement is of upmost importance and being foot step followers will allow us to be found ready.
Absolutely True BTW. It’s a sickness that has been with me ever since I came into the truth, and no matter how hard I try, I can not shake loose of the times we live in as being in its final demise. I think I have made some advancement in that I am reconciled that the system may outlive me, but still hope that I may see the beginning of the end if not the end, and that if I see the beginning, that I may indeed see the end!! Hardly an advancement, but it’s the best I can do. One point that does keep me going is that every time I ask myself about my finite situation is, would I really want to live on in this world? The long answer is No! And the short answer to coarse to publish here. Regardless, not living for a date brings the attributes of the truth to the fore and that is why the date and the hour has faded in my exasperations with this world and allowed the truth it’s dignity in delighting in its refreshment of hope within me and you guys out there.
 

Back to True Worship

Well-known member
Jehovah may not have given us dates to follow but he did give us a marker to put us in proximity of where we're at, in the sequence of events that will unfold ( or is unfolding? ) Rev 17:10, 11. "...but when he arrives he must remain a short while..."
You are right and I too wait with anxiousness just as everyone else does and we are given very significant clues ...or signs from Jesus , but we often get it very wrong, but waiting with alertness protects us from getting tired out and giving up. Like the proverbs says ..is it ...expectation postponed ,makes the heart sick? So we watch and see and not worry about the , it will come on time , we just need to be alert, having our lanterns filled with oil. Ever watchful , ever alert, ever on guard of our spirituality and readiness, lest we are not in proper condition for our Lords arrival. I love your comment as we need each other to keep us alert ...it is a short time ...but we are never sure when it begins only when it is in full sway will we know it is existing and to what extent Jehovah allows it to be we do not know. But keep on the watch , use discernment is what Jesus said in relation to " the disgusting thing that causes desolation"!
 

Back to True Worship

Well-known member
Greetings, Back to True Worship!
You have well identified that the members of Jehovah's people have departed from true worship...

Now, it seem that I am not sure what you wanted to say with: "We should not discount the Ps. 110 which clearly identifies Christ in his heavenly position at God's right hand ....awaiting ...the time when Jehovah will install him as king."

I am not sure what you understood reading from my blog
in my blog I stated what Jesus and the apostles said regarding Jesus being exalted at Father's Right side, which means installing Him as King - fact that occured short before the Pentecosta. At His resurrection, Jesus said He has (already then) received ALL authority in Heavens and earth
So, from that time He is King in Heavens also over earth, fully using His authority in Heavens but not on (or over) earth, still waiting the Father's command for starting to use it over earth. Psalm 2, 110.
The brothers explanations (Wt) written around a century ago, have connected the first ww with Jesus being exalted and made King at that time, in Heavens and on earth, wich is not correct according to the teaching of Christ .
Of course my mind associates Jesus using His authority over earth with the coming of God's Kingdom on earth, thing that is yet future, as long as Jesus' words are still valid for us: "Let your kingdom come" ...

Regarding chronology, I was not trying to guess the "end" of this world (the time of physical annihilation of evildoers), but, using the datas given in prophecies, to find the time of Judgement that begins from Jehovah's House .
There are also two datas (the signification of 1290 and 1335 days) of which we have to wait for clarification.
My dear brother, I have spent some time reading your post and will continue to read and pray and meditate on it...I believe you have very strong opinions on interpretation of scripture ...but I believe you need to consider some of it in context and historical background. I do believe you have some thoughts that are not accurate, but then again , I am sure I do too. Even the apostles who walked with and undoubtedly had many in depth conversations with Jesus that are not recorded in the bible continued to have many misunderstandings as to prophecy and fulfillment, even up to the time of his ascension into heaven. In fact Jesus had to correct them many times , and he will us too. I think of his words to Nicodemus who was a teacher of the law, when Jesus met with him in secrecy and revealed the fact that the rulers with him in his kingdom had to be born again or borne with the spirit...and he mentioned that he was surprised that Nicodemus did not understand what that meant. Being fleshly minded prevented him from grasping it and it was no doubt later he understood.There are things we simply will not fully understand until all things are revealed to us under the Kingdom of God. So my point my dear brother, study , pray and meditate and even then we need to be open to thinking differently then in the past , especially if someone mentions something of note. But lastly , it is our absolute faith in the fact that Jesus Christ came in the flesh as God's representative and spoke the truth about God and his kingdom and purpose , our faith in his sin atoning sacrifice , and then our complete obedience to his teachings of how we can walk in his footsteps , imitating his great love for mankind, thus we recognize Christ as having All authority in heaven and on earth...and it will be complete in every respect under that kingdom.... remember it was mercy , and not sacrifice that Christ spoke of as the real important things while the Pharisees focused and bragged about their understanding and interpretation of scripture and forced this upon the "people of the dirt". We will know all things completely and accurately in time , but for now let us make sure of the more important things...faith , hope and love ...the greater is love.
Maybe , Daniels words will have yet greater fulfillment in our time " many will rove about and true knowledge will become abundant." Daniel 12:4
and I pray Jehovah and Jesus will happy to use you if that be their will.
 

LazerHarp

Well-known member
Howdy Folks. I'm just winging through and saw this thread so I thought I'd pop in for a quick looksey. (I'm at an internet free zone at the Park)

The True Faith Jehovah's Witnesses are a fascinating group worthy of a decent discussion.

Gerrit Losch made a video about how they got about 5000 to return to the main Org after a long time on their own.

Originally their main beef was in regards to the "Superior Authorities" change back in around 1962. These brothers had undergone alot of persecution under the Soviets but they got comfort from the Societies former teaching about the Superior Authorities being Jehovah and Jesus.

When this was revised in 1962 to the "Secular" Authoriites being the Superior Authorities the brothers thought it was a KGB PSYOP as their had been considerable infiltration of the ORG by KGB Agents which had resulted in many of them being sent to Russian Gulags. The change in doctrinal position was so stark as to render a profound level of distrust and alarm in the Brothers.

A large Cohort of brothers in the Eastern Block separated from the parent ORG refusing to use any literature after the 1962 update. In a sense they became a time capsule of the ORG from 1962.

Although Losch got 5000 back into the fold there are apparently still tens of thousands of True Faith Jehovah's Witnesses outside of JW.ORG in Eastern Bloc countries. To the best of my knowledge, many won't return as they see JWs as too much part of the World. TFJWS do not embrace many of the Worldly trends in dress and music that members of JW.ORG frequently indulge in.

Ray Franz, apparently gave a discourse to some members which video is somewhere out on Youtube.

The fact that the KGB was able to infiltrate the ranks of JWs in the 1950's with some rising to position of CO gives us reason today to be careful about the headoffice in the USA being infiltrated by American Intelligence/Masonic interests. Robert King has alluded to this possibility out on his main page.

It also gives caution as to the attitude of many brothers that appointments of Elders; Judicial Committee Decisions etc are a result of Holy Spirit as the KGB Agents were prayed about before they were appointed to positions of oversight.

I would love to hear more from "Seeker4Kingdom" on the topic. (When I get back online which is pretty random at the moment😒🙃)
I heard that the mormon faith are splitting right now into secular and the remaining liberal branch.
I wonder how long it will take for a huge split in the witnesses since they seem to be shifting heavily to the left recently.
The way they are acting, I wouldn't be surprised if they start endorsing new-age teachings.
Kind of like when they said they were no longer predicting the end.
 

Jah-son

Well-known member
Great info!
I never knew these brothers existed..
Thanks for this.

I remember the video with Losch tearfully explaining how they assimilated these "lost" brothers back into the borg.

Of course I don't remember the WT explaining the reason for the division. It was the fault of the TFJWs of course for not keeping up with "Jehovah's chariot".

Just goes to show who really is responsible for causing divisions. The flip flopping nulite machine is glitching again.
 

Jah-son

Well-known member
I heard that the mormon faith are splitting right now into secular and the remaining liberal branch.
I wonder how long it will take for a huge split in the witnesses since they seem to be shifting heavily to the left recently.
The way they are acting, I wouldn't be surprised if they start endorsing new-age teachings.
Kind of like when they said they were no longer predicting the end.
The mormons have many factions. This has been going on for a long time. There are several seperatist polygamist groups. It would be Interesting if there was a major split though.

I think you are correct that WT org is headed in the same direction. The difference is that typically when JWs start deviating and looking objectively at the org they become incensed by the deceit and damage that the WT policies have had on innocent victims along with the insane true history of the org. They end up completely turning on the org or turning to Christendom. No factions needed.

The closest thing I've seen to a faction group among JWs is the one mentioned in this thread (TFJWs) or the folks that haunt this forum. Although most of us have our own varying ideas and degrees of separation from WT.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
I remember the video with Losch tearfully explaining how they assimilated these "lost" brothers back into the borg.

Of course I don't remember the WT explaining the reason for the division. It was the fault of the TFJWs of course for not keeping up with "Jehovah's chariot".

Just goes to show who really is responsible for causing divisions. The flip flopping nulite machine is glitching again.
The reason had to do with the issue with the governments in the Communist area where there were infiltrators in the congregations. That caused a huge division since it came out of fear that the Org was taken over by Communists.
 

LazerHarp

Well-known member
The mormons have many factions. This has been going on for a long time. There are several seperatist polygamist groups. It would be Interesting if there was a major split though.

I think you are correct that WT org is headed in the same direction. The difference is that typically when JWs start deviating and looking objectively at the org they become incensed by the deceit and damage that the WT policies have had on innocent victims along with the insane true history of the org. They end up completely turning on the org or turning to Christendom. No factions needed.

The closest thing I've seen to a faction group among JWs is the one mentioned in this thread (TFJWs) or the folks that haunt this forum. Although most of us have our own varying ideas and degrees of separation from WT.
It just seemed interesting to me that the mormons and witnesses are both facing problems right now,
as they are some of the last to turn/harmonize with the UN global agenda.
I find some of the mormon teachings strange after being raised a witness, but I think both faiths had a more devout fellowship base.
I guess that has changed a lot though over the years. Many of those old-school brothers and sisters have passed away.
 

Jah-son

Well-known member
The reason had to do with the issue with the governments in the Communist area where there were infiltrators in the congregations. That caused a huge division since it came out of fear that the Org was taken over by Communists.
Yes, that's true but someone mentioned that their mistrust was due to the WT changing their stance on Rom 13 from "superior authorities" meaning Jehovah and Jesus to the current version - secular governmental authorities. The TFJWs believed the change was brought about by the infiltrators.

Therefore, it is actually WTs flip flopping on scripture interpretation that caused the division and mistrust.

WTs flip flopping is what caused me to mistrust them for the same reason. And now I'm wondering if the creator ever did use this organization in the first place. My doubts grow more daily.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
Yes, that's true but someone mentioned that their mistrust was due to the WT changing their stance on Rom 13 from "superior authorities" meaning Jehovah and Jesus to the current version - secular governmental authorities. The TFJWs believed the change was brought about by the infiltrators.

Therefore, it is actually WTs flip flopping on scripture interpretation that caused the division and mistrust.

WTs flip flopping is what caused me to mistrust them for the same reason. And now I'm wondering if the creator ever did use this organization in the first place. My doubts grow more daily.
Well keep in mind if you're looking for pure worship, it hasn't been on earth since Eden. We have to take care not to throw the baby out with the bathwater. After the apostles died, the truth became obscured heavily by the Church. Needless to say, despite all of it's flaws, it has helped pave the way for the truth to be established when the time came. Imagine trying to evangelize to the Aztecs when they were doing human sacrifice. There would be no way it could be done without getting slaughtered, therefore people like Cortez played a role in ridding such ways of life (though violent unfortunately). Plus, Africa had similar issues & Christendom & Islam chased out the belief systems that were similar. So when America had been established, it made it possible for the basic truth to abound in a crowd rather than individuals. It's frustrating how things went but it was enough to make it possible to get people ready for the return of Jesus. So don't lose hope & hang in there!

P.S. I found this tweet thread that shed some light on the situation in Africa. It was quite shocking. Here's a couple of links that may be of use. The thread reader app make's reading tweet threads like a webpage.
 
That is terrible. I hope you are doing ok/handling it ok?
I feel like mental illness can be similar to other serious physical injuries when things are not working right. I've had people close to me struggle with mental issues.
Greetings!
I understand from your words that the way how I said in english (about this brother's death) was not correct.
I intended to say not that the brother has took himself his life, but simply, his life ended, or simply he died (in fact he died because of a cancer).
 
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