Has Israel been cast out? A response

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kenmuldoon55 said:
It’s true Paul argued that natural Jews could indeed return to Jehovah's favor and become heirs with Jesus as part of his Kingdom.
Was 70 CE a cutoff date after which they wouldn’t be able to? The Bible doesn’t say.

Jesus did say that only those who acknowledge him as the Messiah would be grafted back into the true vine.
The fiercely nationalistic people who reside within the borders of what is now Israel have no place or part in future Bible prophecy, which is widely believed among modern evangelical movements, because Jehovah and Jesus only have dealings with the Israel of God or spiritual Israel.
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“I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? Never may that happen!” - Romans 11:1 (New World Translation)

Let us see how Paul continues to answer this questions in Romans 11.

Rom 11:7, 8 shows that the nation of Israel did not obtain what it sought. Paul goes on in verses 9 and 10 showing that their eyes were darkened so they would not see the truth.

Paul continues his thought in verse 11 showing that Israel did not stumble so as to fall. The purpose of their stumbling is so the Gentiles would also have an opportunity to be anointed and be part of the 144,000, but even so, verse 1 says that “God has not rejected His people” Israel.

Not only did they not utterly fall, but there was a purpose to the fall. Their disobedience was for a purpose, which is to bless all. This is where it gets really exciting! Verse 15 begins a section which shows the true purpose of Israel being blinded and allowed to fall for a time is the “reconciling of the whole world.”

In verse 12, Paul shows that their rejection results in the “reconciliation of the world” and their future acceptance (“fullness”) will mark the time of “life from the dead.”

All Israel will be saved (verse 26), both fleshly and spiritual.

Verses 25-29 is so beautiful. It shows that Israel was “blinded UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles comes in,” that is until the 144,000 are complete. And then the blindness and their sins will be removed (verse 27). Verse 28 shows that they are enemies for the sake of the Anointed, but beloved for the sake of the fathers – God still keeps them in His plan and will help them.

Romans 11:28 says, ”From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.”

How can Romans 11:28 be speaking of anything other than the nation of Israel, when it specifically says:
  1. They are enemies for the Gospel’s sake
  2. They are beloved for the father’s sake
Are Christians (Jehovah’s Witnesses) enemies for the Gospels sake? I should hope not. So this group of enemies is natural Israel who are “beloved for the fathers’ sake.”

Moses told natural Israel that Jehovah loved them in Deut 7:6-8, “For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."

Rom 11:29 tells us that, “the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.” What are the gifts and calling of God to the natural nation of Israel that are irrevocable?
  • God will bless all the nations of the world through them (Gen 12:3)
  • They will own the land of Israel forever (Gen 13:15)
  • They will eventually be planted in their land and never again plucked up out of it (Amos 9:15)
In Luke 21:24 (NASV) Jesus said, “they (the Jews) will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” Notice that the time of Jerusalem’s trampling ended in 1914 with the end of the Gentile times. WWI which began in 1914 produced the Balfour Declaration through which the British Empire set aside land in Palestine for a Jewish nation, which became a reality in 1948. So the early Watchtower (C.T. Russell) was then correct in connecting the reestablishment of the nation of Israel with the end of the Gentile Times.

Jeremiah 31:35-37 NIV “This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that the waves roar — the Lord Almighty is his name: “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the Lord, “will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.” This is what the Lord says: “Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,” declares the Lord”
 
kenmuldoon55 said:
I believe that when Jesus told the nation of Israel at Matthew 23:48 that from henceforth they’d be abandoned by God, He was pretty serious about it.
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Actually, that would be Matthew 23:38, there is no 48 verse. Matthew 23: ends at 39. In any event, you failed to read the verse in context. Yes, Jesus did say "Your house is left to you desolate", but notice what he says next in verse 39, "for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’”


kenmuldoon55 said:
Besides, all genealogical records of the Israelites went up in smoke during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE and any authentic descendants of those first century Jews wouldn’t have a clue as to which tribe they belonged to or even if they were of Semitic origin.
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While this is true, don't you think Jehovah Himself knows? Especially when the ancient ones of Hebrews 11 are resurrected to represent the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.
 
You apparently don’t grasp the concept of a spiritual Israel and who comprise it.
As a nation in covenant relationship with Jehovah, their approved status was conditional on not breaking that Mosaic covenant which they did repeatedly which is why the privilege of being a holy priesthood nation was taken from them and given to a nation producing righteous fruits.
What I find disturbing is that you subscribe to WT lore about 1914 being the time Jerusalem ceased to be trampled upon.
Robert has clearly shown, scripturally,
that the trampling occurs during the beast’s 42 month reign following the great tribulation.
You’re adept at researching and posting pro Israel propaganda so I respectfully suggest you do a little research into Brother King’s
treatise on the subject of the gentile times.
 
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Watchman said:
It is almost spring and time to do some housecleaning. Out with the masonic Zionists!
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spring is just around the corner...

Nevermind, I guess Punxsutawney Phil was wrong this year.
 
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Israel's provision for salvation is the same as our's. Jesus Christ is the only name by which anyone can be saved. If Israel chooses to adhere to the old, will they continue to offer animal sacrifices which have only a temporary value? What would be the point of that? Being only temporary it would be an obvious offense to the superior sacrifice of Jesus and also not in God's plan.
If a Jew wants salvation they can accept the messiah Jesus just like the rest of us. This was the promise to Abraham. Am I not understanding the purpose of this topic? Even now, I hear comments from self claimed Christians who seem to have this fixation with physical Israel who no longer has any claim to God because of their rejection of the cornerstone Jesus. If I missed something, let me know.
 
BagdadBill said:
Israel's provision for salvation is the same as our's. Jesus Christ is the only name by which anyone can be saved. If Israel chooses to adhere to the old, will they continue to offer animal sacrifices which have only a temporary value? What would be the point of that? Being only temporary it would be an obvious offense to the superior sacrifice of Jesus and also not in God's plan.
If a Jew wants salvation they can accept the messiah Jesus just like the rest of us. This was the promise to Abraham. Am I not understanding the purpose of this topic? Even now, I hear comments from self claimed Christians who seem to have this fixation with physical Israel who no longer has any claim to God because of their rejection of the cornerstone Jesus. If I missed something, let me know.
Click to expand...
Believe me you didn’t.
 
BagdadBill said:
Israel's provision for salvation is the same as our's. Jesus Christ is the only name by which anyone can be saved. If Israel chooses to adhere to the old, will they continue to offer animal sacrifices which have only a temporary value? What would be the point of that? Being only temporary it would be an obvious offense to the superior sacrifice of Jesus and also not in God's plan.
If a Jew wants salvation they can accept the messiah Jesus just like the rest of us. This was the promise to Abraham. Am I not understanding the purpose of this topic? Even now, I hear comments from self claimed Christians who seem to have this fixation with physical Israel who no longer has any claim to God because of their rejection of the cornerstone Jesus. If I missed something, let me know.
Click to expand...
What people need to understand is after Rome crushed the temple, the old covenant was permanently terminated. The fact the the Israelites hunted down Christians showed where they stood with God & it was no different how their ancestors were in Isaiah & Jerimiah's time. If we look today, where is the Ark of the Covenant? Which tribe does each Jew belong to (ironically Jew is short for Judean which is part of the tribe of Benjamin)? Are they black, middle eastern, or white? Why aren't they doing sacrifices? If you consider these things you realize Jehovah hasn't blessed these people & IMHO there are no true Israelites since they were wiped out just like the Philistines. This is harsh to say but what we see today is really a ploy by the devil to mislead the inhabited earth & the Beast/KotN may use it to lead many into apostacy just how it has cause many in Christendom & Islam to have a fixation on the physical nation. What we see today is just a huge piece of Babylon the Great.
 
I found some interesting links that should be considered.

christiansfortruth.com

Turkish Police Recover Stolen Jewish Torah Scrolls Decorated With Satanic Illuminati Symbolism - Christians for Truth

(RT – Russia Times) Turkish Police arrested four former fighters of Faylaq al-Rahman and a Turkish citizen who were trying to sell two rare, gold-plated Jewish “Torahs” in the northwestern province of Bilecik on May 8, the Russian TV network RT: The Turkish newspaper Daily Sabah said that...
christiansfortruth.com christiansfortruth.com

www.bitchute.com

Satanic Talmud (Sub ITA)

None
www.bitchute.com www.bitchute.com
 
PJ54 said:
I did some looking around & Judah is a separate tribe. However, the kingdom of Judah has the tribe of Benjamin in it. My mistake!
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I meant that the term Jew comes from the tribe of Judah. (Judah was an actual tribe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Tribes_of_Israel) I'm not certain myself. I only say that because Jew sounds like the first part of Judah and I assumed... You know what they say about assuming... :)
 
Found this channel a year ago timothy schwab can be arrogant and obviously some of his beliefs are off as he's a flat earther among other things but his theories on the migrations/locations of the lost tribes are interesting



 
Whilst I don't agree with everything RR144 has written (specifically: 1914) I do believe his thoughts about the physical nation of Israel's place in Jehovah's eternal plan are correct. An honest reading of Romans 9-11 bears out this truth.

If the terms "Israel" and "Jew(s)" are only referring to "spiritual Israel" then much of the text within Romans 9-11 becomes nonsense - to say nothing of the rest of the NT.

This truth is confirmed by Paul's words in Rom 9:3: "my relatives according to the flesh".

Paul uses the same term in Rom 1:3: "concerning his Son, who came to be from the offspring of David according to the flesh"

There can be no argument that Paul was pointing out that Jesus was a physical, fleshly descendant of David. These verses are plainly talking about physical, fleshly relationships; thus, Paul is very clear about whom he is speaking of in Romans 9-11: the physical nation of the Jews.

Suffice it to say, the Jews whom Jehovah will open the eyes of will not be accepted through the Old Covenant. No, they will only be accepted by placing faith in Jesus, repenting of their former lives, and being baptised in His name.

The problem until now has been that very few Jews have accepted Jesus as their Messiah because: "A partial dulling of senses ("blindness" KJV) has come upon Israel" (Rom 11:25).

Jehovah sends people who refuse to acknowledge & love the truth a delusion to "believe the lie". Romans 1:20-28 and 2 Thes 2:10-12 are examples of this. Because the Jews refuse to believe & love the truth that is Jesus, a "blindness" has come over them so that they believe the lie that Jesus is NOT their Messiah.

But Rom 11:25 continues: "until the full number of people of the nations has come in". Thus we see that by Jehovah's grace and because of His love for the patriarchs (Rom 11:28), their blindness shall be removed at some point - and they will see & understand that Jesus IS their promised Messiah. Among those, a "remnant" (Rom 11:5) will obey God's command to faithfully accept Jesus as their promised Messiah, repent, and be baptised in His name.
 
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Outcast said:
Whilst I don't agree with everything RR144 has written (specifically: 1914) I do believe his thoughts about the physical nation of Israel's place in Jehovah's eternal plan are correct. An honest reading of Romans 9-11 bears out this truth.

If the terms "Israel" and "Jew(s)" are only referring to "spiritual Israel" then much of the text within Romans 9-11 becomes nonsense - to say nothing of the rest of the NT.


Jehovah sends people who refuse to acknowledge & love the truth a delusion to "believe the lie". Romans 1:20-28 and 2 Thes 2:10-12 are examples of this. Because the Jews refuse to believe & love the truth that is Jesus, a "blindness" has come over them so that they believe the lie that Jesus is NOT their Messiah.

But Rom 11:25 continues: "until the full number of people of the nations has come in". Thus we see that by Jehovah's grace and because of His love for the patriarchs (Rom 11:28), their blindness shall be removed at some point - and they will see & understand that Jesus IS their promised Messiah. Among those, a "remnant" (Rom 11:5) will obey God's command to faithfully accept Jesus as their promised Messiah, repent, and be baptised in His name.
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God through Jesus, appointed Paul as the apostle to the nations or gentiles. That's us. Regular people of varying colors and nationalities. Jesus made it clear that because of their rejection of God's promise to Abraham, that it was the last straw as regards the nation of Israel having any special privilege or position. Even his promise to Abraham explains that his intention was to include the nations of the world.
This clinging to Israel is fine, as long as you are holding onto the right Jewish skirt. For almost 2000 years now, the true nation of Israel has been destroyed. What you see physically in the land of Canaan is not the Israel of God rather a secular, demon inspired nation.
Israel forcibly injected their entire country with this magical injection that Satan has given the world. That alone clinches it.
I have seen this topic beaten to death in various forums and in videos. Fleshly Israel is gone. If anyone belabors the point then why believe any of the scripture at all?
 
Watchman said:
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Thank you for taking the time to read my comment and for sharing that video. I've had a look at the video, and I didn't find much to disagree with.

I cannot and will not try to defend what others believe about this subject - all I can do is present my understanding, so here are my thoughts:

You made the case for the existence of a "spiritual Israel", and also showed that the Bible explains that the Old Covenant has been superseded by the New. I agree with you: I believe the scriptures teach both things.

However, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding on the subject: At 15:56 you quoted Heb 8:13 and went on to say that Jehovah had basically said "I'm done with this".

"This" refers to the Old Covenant:

"In his saying “a new covenant,” he has made the former one obsolete. Now what is obsolete and growing old is near to vanishing away."

The misunderstanding is equating the Old Covenant (Judaism) with the Jews. Jehovah said He was abolishing Judaism - NOT the Jews. They are not one & same thing. One is a covenant, the other is a group of people.

"I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? By no means!" Rom 11:1


At 17:00 you asked the viewer 2 questions:

1. "Why should God bring Israel back?"

The simple fact is: Jehovah doesn't need anything from anyone. He doesn't need the Jews, he doesn't need the Gentiles, he doesn't need creation at all; He made all things out of His great love, and He redeemed us out of His great love, mercy, and undeserved kindness.

This same love, mercy, and undeserved kindness is why Jehovah promises to save a remnant of natural Israel. Do they deserve it? No! But neither do we!! (Rom 3:9-10, 23) That's why it's called "undeserved kindness".

"So in the same way, at the present time also, there is a remnant according to a choosing through undeserved kindness." Rom 11:5

"True, with respect to the good news, they are enemies for your sakes; but with respect to God’s choosing, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers." Rom 11:28

"For just as you were once disobedient to God but have now been shown mercy because of their disobedience, so also these now have been disobedient with mercy resulting to you, so that they themselves may also now be shown mercy." Rom 11:30-31

Furthermore, Paul infers that their eventual incorporation into spiritual Israel will result in great blessing to the Christian congregation:

"Now if their false step means riches to the world and their decrease means riches to people of the nations, how much more will their full number mean!" Rom 11:12

(It would also be remiss of me if I failed to mention that Jehovah "should bring Israel back" simply because He promised to and, as you said at 7:41 in your video, "Jehovah always keeps His promise". Time and again, Jehovah speaks of punishing Israel/Jews but that He will eventually restore them.)


2. "Will He (Jehovah) have two organisations?"

No, He will not. Again: Jehovah has destroyed Judaism, not the Jews.

Those Jews whom Jehovah will open the eyes of will have to approach Him on the same basis as all Christians do: Through Jesus Christ. They will need to repent, put their faith in Jesus, and be baptised in His name. The "Organisation", headed by Jesus Christ, is His Body. They will be "grafted back in" (Rom 11:23); they will not have their own organisation.

The miracle will be having their blindness & hardness removed so that they finally recognise Jesus as the promised Messiah, in much the same way that Saul (Paul) had his blindness miraculously removed so that he could recognise Jesus as God's promised Messiah.

This experience was true in the First Century when there were a lot of believing Jews, and it is Jehovah's ultimate purpose for the "two groups":

"Therefore, remember that at one time you, people of the nations by fleshly descent, were the ones called “uncircumcision” by those called “circumcision,” which is made in the flesh by human hands. At that time you were without Christ, alienated from the state of Israel, strangers to the covenants of the promise; you had no hope and were without God in the world. But now in union with Christ Jesus, you who were once far off have come to be near by the blood of the Christ. For he is our peace, the one who made the two groups one and destroyed the wall in between that fenced them off. By means of his flesh he abolished the enmity, the Law of commandments consisting in decrees, in order to make the two groups in union with himself into one new man and to make peace, and to reconcile fully both peoples in one body to God through the torture stake, because he had killed off the enmity by means of himself." Eph 2:11-16


I hope this clarifies my understanding of the subject.

:)
 
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BagdadBill said:
God through Jesus, appointed Paul as the apostle to the nations or gentiles. That's us. Regular people of varying colors and nationalities. Jesus made it clear that because of their rejection of God's promise to Abraham, that it was the last straw as regards the nation of Israel having any special privilege or position. Even his promise to Abraham explains that his intention was to include the nations of the world.
This clinging to Israel is fine, as long as you are holding onto the right Jewish skirt. For almost 2000 years now, the true nation of Israel has been destroyed. What you see physically in the land of Canaan is not the Israel of God rather a secular, demon inspired nation.
Israel forcibly injected their entire country with this magical injection that Satan has given the world. That alone clinches it.
I have seen this topic beaten to death in various forums and in videos. Fleshly Israel is gone. If anyone belabors the point then why believe any of the scripture at all?
Click to expand...

Brother, I hear what you're saying, and I agree with much of it.

But Romans chapters 9-11 are there for a reason.

If it is not for proving that Jehovah will show mercy & undeserved kindness to a remnant of natural Jews by removing their blindness & hardness so that they can recognise Jesus is their Messiah, and that they will be "grafted back in", what is it there for? Could you, or someone, explain?

I find that, in regards to this subject, no one who believes "Jehovah is done with natural Israel" ever mentions Rom 9-11. They avoid quoting it, referring to it, or explaining what else it could mean. Can you? Can someone?

Furthermore, the same people will often quote Matt 23:38 but never verse 39. There were no chapter or verse divisions in the original text, so to quote verse 38 without 39 is dishonest. We are called to worship in "spirit and truth".

You also said "fleshly Israel" is gone. That may be true of the 10 Northern Tribes, but it is plainly not true of the Jews.

(I hope I don't sound harsh; it's not my intention. Writing doesn't always convey the mildness or gentleness someone may intend. Hope you understand. :) Best wishes to you.)
 
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Outcast said:
Brother, I hear what you're saying, and I agree with much of it.

But Romans chapters 9-11 are there for a reason.

If it is not for proving that Jehovah will show mercy & undeserved kindness to a remnant of natural Jews by removing their blindness & hardness so that they can recognise Jesus is their Messiah, and that they will be "grafted back in", what is it there for? Could you, or someone, explain?

I find that, in regards to this subject, no one who believes "Jehovah is done with natural Israel" ever mentions Rom 9-11. They avoid quoting it, referring to it, or explaining what else it could mean. Can you? Can someone?

Furthermore, the same people will often quote Matt 12:38 but never verse 39. There were no chapter or verse divisions in the original text, so to quote verse 38 without 39 is dishonest. We are called to worship in "spirit and truth".

You also said "fleshly Israel" is gone. That may be true of the 10 Northern Tribes, but it is plainly not true of the Jews.

(I hope I don't sound harsh; it's not my intention. Writing doesn't always convey the mildness or gentleness someone may intend. Hope you understand. :) Best wishes to you.)
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Hi Outcast!
Paul talks about the clay making suggestions to the potter and how absurd that notion is. I get the sense that a lot is being made out of the discussion in Romans 9, 10 and 11 which Paul may not have intended be interpreted so strongly, particularly chapter 11. Being grafted is being made a part of something that already exists and is pretty much secondary to the main branch or root system. So to me, if Jehovah wants to invite (anoint) some natural Jews (aside from the many natural Jews Paul was being encouraging to in these chapters in Romans) who might live say in Russia or New York City in our time, so be it. Those natural blood Jews who cannot trace their roots to any particular Jewish blood line could be considered a remnant if you want to reach that far. I think the most important clue to how Jehovah feels about this whole issue is found in Romans 11:33-36 (In Part) "O the depth of God's riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments are and beyond tracing his ways are?...."

@Outcast, you state: "Furthermore, the same people will often quote Matt 12:38 but never verse 39. There were no chapter or verse divisions in the original text, so to quote verse 38 without 39 is dishonest. We are called to worship in "spirit and truth".

What does that mean? I read Matt 12:38 AND 39 LOL and cannot figure out for the life of me what you are trying to point out here. Thank you in advance for any clarity you can lend on this particular statement of yours.
 
RR144 said:
“I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? Never may that happen!” - Romans 11:1 (New World Translation)

Let us see how Paul continues to answer this questions in Romans 11.

Rom 11:7, 8 shows that the nation of Israel did not obtain what it sought. Paul goes on in verses 9 and 10 showing that their eyes were darkened so they would not see the truth.

Paul continues his thought in verse 11 showing that Israel did not stumble so as to fall. The purpose of their stumbling is so the Gentiles would also have an opportunity to be anointed and be part of the 144,000, but even so, verse 1 says that “God has not rejected His people” Israel.

Not only did they not utterly fall, but there was a purpose to the fall. Their disobedience was for a purpose, which is to bless all. This is where it gets really exciting! Verse 15 begins a section which shows the true purpose of Israel being blinded and allowed to fall for a time is the “reconciling of the whole world.”

In verse 12, Paul shows that their rejection results in the “reconciliation of the world” and their future acceptance (“fullness”) will mark the time of “life from the dead.”

All Israel will be saved (verse 26), both fleshly and spiritual.

Verses 25-29 is so beautiful. It shows that Israel was “blinded UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles comes in,” that is until the 144,000 are complete. And then the blindness and their sins will be removed (verse 27). Verse 28 shows that they are enemies for the sake of the Anointed, but beloved for the sake of the fathers – God still keeps them in His plan and will help them.

Romans 11:28 says, ”From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.”

How can Romans 11:28 be speaking of anything other than the nation of Israel, when it specifically says:
  1. They are enemies for the Gospel’s sake
  2. They are beloved for the father’s sake
Are Christians (Jehovah’s Witnesses) enemies for the Gospels sake? I should hope not. So this group of enemies is natural Israel who are “beloved for the fathers’ sake.”

Moses told natural Israel that Jehovah loved them in Deut 7:6-8, “For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."

Rom 11:29 tells us that, “the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.” What are the gifts and calling of God to the natural nation of Israel that are irrevocable?
  • God will bless all the nations of the world through them (Gen 12:3)
  • They will own the land of Israel forever (Gen 13:15)
  • They will eventually be planted in their land and never again plucked up out of it (Amos 9:15)
In Luke 21:24 (NASV) Jesus said, “they (the Jews) will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” Notice that the time of Jerusalem’s trampling ended in 1914 with the end of the Gentile times. WWI which began in 1914 produced the Balfour Declaration through which the British Empire set aside land in Palestine for a Jewish nation, which became a reality in 1948. So the early Watchtower (C.T. Russell) was then correct in connecting the reestablishment of the nation of Israel with the end of the Gentile Times.

Jeremiah 31:35-37 NIV “This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that the waves roar — the Lord Almighty is his name: “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the Lord, “will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.” This is what the Lord says: “Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,” declares the Lord”
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RR144 said:
“I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? Never may that happen!” - Romans 11:1 (New World Translation)

Let us see how Paul continues to answer this questions in Romans 11.

Rom 11:7, 8 shows that the nation of Israel did not obtain what it sought. Paul goes on in verses 9 and 10 showing that their eyes were darkened so they would not see the truth.

Paul continues his thought in verse 11 showing that Israel did not stumble so as to fall. The purpose of their stumbling is so the Gentiles would also have an opportunity to be anointed and be part of the 144,000, but even so, verse 1 says that “God has not rejected His people” Israel.

Not only did they not utterly fall, but there was a purpose to the fall. Their disobedience was for a purpose, which is to bless all. This is where it gets really exciting! Verse 15 begins a section which shows the true purpose of Israel being blinded and allowed to fall for a time is the “reconciling of the whole world.”

In verse 12, Paul shows that their rejection results in the “reconciliation of the world” and their future acceptance (“fullness”) will mark the time of “life from the dead.”

All Israel will be saved (verse 26), both fleshly and spiritual.

Verses 25-29 is so beautiful. It shows that Israel was “blinded UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles comes in,” that is until the 144,000 are complete. And then the blindness and their sins will be removed (verse 27). Verse 28 shows that they are enemies for the sake of the Anointed, but beloved for the sake of the fathers – God still keeps them in His plan and will help them.

Romans 11:28 says, ”From the standpoint of the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but from the standpoint of God’s choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.”

How can Romans 11:28 be speaking of anything other than the nation of Israel, when it specifically says:
  1. They are enemies for the Gospel’s sake
  2. They are beloved for the father’s sake
Are Christians (Jehovah’s Witnesses) enemies for the Gospels sake? I should hope not. So this group of enemies is natural Israel who are “beloved for the fathers’ sake.”

Moses told natural Israel that Jehovah loved them in Deut 7:6-8, “For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself, a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; but because the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."

Rom 11:29 tells us that, “the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable.” What are the gifts and calling of God to the natural nation of Israel that are irrevocable?
  • God will bless all the nations of the world through them (Gen 12:3)
  • They will own the land of Israel forever (Gen 13:15)
  • They will eventually be planted in their land and never again plucked up out of it (Amos 9:15)
In Luke 21:24 (NASV) Jesus said, “they (the Jews) will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” Notice that the time of Jerusalem’s trampling ended in 1914 with the end of the Gentile times. WWI which began in 1914 produced the Balfour Declaration through which the British Empire set aside land in Palestine for a Jewish nation, which became a reality in 1948. So the early Watchtower (C.T. Russell) was then correct in connecting the reestablishment of the nation of Israel with the end of the Gentile Times.

Jeremiah 31:35-37 NIV “This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that the waves roar — the Lord Almighty is his name: “Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,” declares the Lord, “will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me.” This is what the Lord says: “Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done,” declares the Lord”
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Quote:
“Notice that the time of Jerusalem’s trampling ended in 1914 with the end of the Gentile times. WWI which began in 1914 produced the Balfour Declaration through which the British Empire set aside land in Palestine for a Jewish nation, which became a reality in 1948. So the early Watchtower (C.T. Russell) was then correct in connecting the re-establishment of the nation of Israel with the end of the Gentile Times”

I believe CT Russell was influenced by the so called oligarchs of his day, like Lords Rothschild's, brother Russell was very much into Zionism hence “Zions Watchtower”. I don’t belief that the gathering of the imposter Jewish nation back in 1948 is prophetic, there were many manoeuvred events which enabled this to take place. Even before Hitler put the Jews in the concentration camps, Lord Rothschild's had offered them money and land in Palestine for them to take up occupancy but they refused, it was going to take much more than that for them to leave their long established businesses. So after the war it was the prime opportunity to get the Jews to accept Rothschild's offer, being penniless they had little choice.
The scriptures also say that Israel would be regathered from Islands and the four corners of the earth, not just Poland, Germany Eastern Europe, these were mainly Ashkenazi Jews who were Jewish by conversion not Semitic Jews. Even after the brothers went into the concentration camps too and came out, this ridiculous teaching was carried on by Rutherford who also thought the regathered Jews were still of major significance in Bible prophesy. It wasn’t until they joined the United Nations, did we have to abandon this teaching. I too have thought deeply about this and can see why you may think it , but I believe this gathering will be future, through those descendants of Abraham, I believe they themselves won’t even know who they are. The scriptures say at Romans 11:25
“For I do not want you to be unaware of this sacred secret, brothers, so that you do not become wise in your own eyes: a PARTIAL dulling of senses has come upon Israel UNTIL the FULL number of people of the nations has come in”
I believe these nations have all now been gathered and those who are awakening to the “accurate knowledge” are those mentioned in prophesy, these are the ones who have seeked the true God Jehovah & his Christ Jesus, in this way ALL Israel will be gathered as they have been mixed in through out all of the nations not just Eastern Europe.
That which we call the regathered Jews to day, consists of the synagogue of satan. The main reason for them establishing it, is so that they can rebuild a third temple and pass themselves off as the true Jews, this is how they have so far created the 70 Sanhedrin, made all the utensils for the third temple, bred a red Heifer and plan to instil the “Noah Hide Laws” on the whole of mankind. This is why Jesus said in
Revelation 3:9
“Look! I will make those from the synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews yet are not, but are lying—look! I will make them come and bow before your feet and make them know that I have loved you”

Isaiah 11:11
In that day Jehovah will again offer his hand, a second time, to reclaim the remnant of his people who are left from As·syrʹi·a, from Egypt, from Pathʹros, from Cush, from Eʹlam, from Shiʹnar, from Haʹmath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 He will raise up a signal for the nations and gather the DISPERSED ones of Israel, and he will gather together the SCATTERED ones of Judah from the four corners of the earth. 13 The jealousy of Eʹphra·im will be gone, And those who show hostility to Judah will be done away with.Eʹphra·im will not be jealous of Judah, Nor will Judah show hostility toward Eʹphra·im.

www.livescience.com

Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews Are Genetically European

Ashkenazi Jewish can largely trace their maternal heritage to Europe, new research finds. That contradicts earlier studies suggesting that most Ashkenazi heritage traces to the Near East.
www.livescience.com www.livescience.com
 
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