Has Israel been cast out? A response

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In all probability, the state of Israel, which is now in the process of killing one child every six minutes in Gaza, seemingly intentionally enraging millions of their Arab, Turkish and Persian neighbors, will be destroyed.
The Israelis have nukes. If they're going to be destroyed they will use them.
In regards to your questions:

"What is the end of your argument? What are you getting to?"

The point of what I've written is to share my understanding on the subject raised by RR144 - which I've tried to do by appealing to scripture so everyone can examine what I've written and compare it to the Truth of God's Word.


"That modern day Israel will play some part in prophecy? That modern day Israel is anything other than another messed up nation?"

I don't know the answer to those questions. I am content to "wait & see" how the prophecy of Romans 9-11 unfolds. My focus is primarily on what the Bible says about this subject, not necessarily on what the Nation-State of modern-day Israel is currently doing. What I do know is what Jehovah wrote in Romans 9-11, what Jesus said in Matt 23, and what all of the prophets said in the Hebrew Scriptures. And that is: "God did not reject his people, whom he first recognized." (Rom 11:2).
Are you RR144? I find it strange that a new member comes in, and immediately starts commenting on a old thread talking about how the Jews are still God's chosen people. They're not, BTW. They had their chance and they blew it. Jehovah has wholly rejected them as murderers of his son and people that said "We have no king but Ceasar" (John 19:15). Their existence means nothing today. They've been replaced. That doesn't mean that Jews couldn't accept Christ and come into his arrangement as individuals. That's where Paul's words at Romans 11:1-2 come in.

I'm not sure why you're putting forth his nonsense. Modern day Jews are dead to Jehovah and he has nothing to do with them, except as individuals. As individuals they have the same opportunities as everyone else.
Some here have argued that Satan might be targeting the Jews as part of an old, irrelevant "grudge". I would argue that Satan is targeting the Jews precisely because they are - despite their faults - still God's people. (Christians are also God's people - so we can be assured tribulation & persecution are headed our way soon too.)
If they are put forth by the nutty, religious evangelists of this world as fulfilling prophecy, then it will be satan trying to mislead the people. If satan has to target them to cause more confusion and BS, we know what he'll do.

Here's the scripture you quoted, in context, from the 2001 translation:
Brothers, I don’t want you to ignore this mystery, so you don’t become too wise in your own eyes:IsraEl was allowed to become calloused until the full number of gentiles came in.26Yet, this is how all IsraEl is going to be saved!For it’s written:‘A Savior will come out of Zion, And remove from Jacob, his godless ways. 27Yes, this is My promise to them, After I’ve removed all their sins.’ [Isaiah 59:20-21, LXX]

So how is Israel going to be saved? By accepting God's son, Jesus Christ. Has modern Isreal done this as a nation? You know the answer.
 
The Israelis have nukes. If they're going to be destroyed they will use them.
One of the challenges facing Israel is that Hezbollah is right on their border. And there are 100,000 trained and armed members of Allah's army. If they blitzed Israel nukes would be of no value since Israel would be nuking itself
 
One of the challenges facing Israel is that Hezbollah is right on their border. And there are 100,000 trained and armed members of Allah's army. If they blitzed Israel nukes would be of no value since Israel would be nuking itself
True enough but the term pyrrhic victory may end up applying.
 
Isn't that why it's called the Sampson option?
Samson was blessed with a wonderful response from Jehovah....I doubt and I believe you doubt too that since Israel has been judged by Christ to have it's Nation taken away and given to those producing it's fruit will have no such miracle afforded them! They are using scripture to allude them. How blessed we are to have reason of scripture upon us? We have worked out their Sephardic, Ashkenazi Jewish, British backed Zionist roots!
 
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a old thread talking about how the Jews are still God's chosen people. They're not, BTW. They had their chance and they blew it. Jehovah has wholly rejected them as murderers of his son and people that said "We have no king but Ceasar" (John 19:15).
I couldn't agree more, and this is why I keep pointing out, that people don't use their discernment, but rather they run around in circles trying to make simple things complicated. All we have to do is go back to what Jehovah told Abraham. "By means of your seed, all nations will be blessed because you have obeyed me." What did that mean? It meant the Messiah was going to come through Abraham's offspring, and that's all it meant. That's why when the Jews were given the Mosaic covenant, they were told they would be blessed as long as they obeyed God, and that they would be cursed if they did not. They did not, end of story and the end of the discussion. Remember when Moses came down from Mt. Sinai and they were worshiper the Golden Calf, Jehovah threaten to wipe them all out, and bring the Messiah through Moses seed, who was not of the tribe of Judah, he was the tribe of Levite the priestly tribe. And you are also 100% that the Jews can become Christians if the accept Jesus who who he really was, but to be a Jew means you reject Jehovah's son!
 
At this hour it seems appropriate to revisit this Discussion.

Here's a rhetorical question:

If the physical nation of Israel has been permanently rejected & abandoned by Jehovah, if it no longer has any place in the outworking of His plan, and for all intents & purposes has been eternally discarded, why is Jesus Christ known now, and forevermore, as "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah" (Rev 5:5)?

Paul wrote:

"concerning [Jehovah's] Son, who came to be from the offspring of David according to the flesh, but who with power was declared God’s Son according to the spirit of holiness by means of resurrection from the dead yes, Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom 1:3-4

And

"To [the Israelites] the forefathers belong, and from them the Christ descended according to the flesh." Rom 9:5

Jesus is God's Son - but Jehovah isn't Jewish. Jesus' Jewish ancestry is "according to the flesh" - which means the title "The Lion of the Tribe of Judah" refers, and inseparably links Jesus forever, to PHYSICAL Israel. It confirms that the physical Jews are (still) Jesus' "brothers".

Considering Jesus bases his judgement of Matt 25 on the way a person treats "the least of" His brothers, we all should be very careful of how we view & treat the physical Jews.

(Of course this also applies to Christ's Christian brothers, too; indeed we must aim to treat ALL people well if we want to cover all bases. But it's especially relevant in this hour as we're witnessing a particularly violent & threatening antisemitism spreading rapidly throughout the world.)

Some here have argued that Satan might be targeting the Jews as part of an old, irrelevant "grudge". I would argue that Satan is targeting the Jews precisely because they are - despite their faults - still God's people. (Christians are also God's people - so we can be assured tribulation & persecution are headed our way soon too.)

"I ask, then, God did not reject his people, did he? By no means! ... God did not reject his people, whom he first recognized." Rom 11:1-2
I think you should define what Jew means in your question, because you are using the word to define the past Israelite nation, and equating it with the modern day group who call themselves Jew, and they are not the same. You also equate Gods people with Christians today and while that is obviously true, the world views the word Christian to believe in a trinitarian God.

Thus the majority of the world who call themselves Christian, are completely different from an actual Christian who believes and follows the one true God Jehovah. The word Christian has been plagiarized from true Christianity and given to a group of people who neither know Jehovah or his son. The term Jew today is no different, as respects being taken from a group of people who did represent Jehovah prior to Jesus Christ, and is now given to a people who also do not know Jehovah or Jesus Christ.

With that in mind then, I think we should allow the scriptures to define what those words mean, as that should be the only standard we compare anything to.

“. . .For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and [his] circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God.” (Ro 2:28-29)

“. . .yes, God’s righteousness through the faith in Jesus Christ, for all those having faith. For there is no distinction...between Jew and Greek” (Ro 3:22, 10:12)


“. . .There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman, there is neither male nor female; for YOU are all one [person] in union with Christ Jesus.” (Ga 3:28)

Judaism from a religious standpoint was destroyed when Jesus Christ fulfilled the law. It was done, and no longer valid in Jehovahs eyes, which is the only view that matters. But your question also asks whether we shouldn't be careful how we view and treat the physical Jews. The bible clearly states that there is no distinction anymore between the Jew and any other foreign nations. Your question elevates a people above others when in fact we should be careful how we treat everybody, not just those you call 'physical' jews. Your question highlights the problem in a nutshell regarding what is wrong with how the people who call themselves jews view themselves. Anytime somebody thinks they are better than somebody else there will be problems. Not only with entitlement, but also how they view those who are not of the same ideology with disdain.

You quote Romans 11:1-2 talking of the Israelite nation being first recognized, however the scriptures are also quite clear regarding this.

“. . .He does away with what is first that he may establish what is second.” (Heb 10:9)

Thus being first recognized by God carries no weight anymore as to how God views the Israelite nation.

I could go on, but I feel like your questions are loaded with an agenda to incite something rather than truly understand.
 
Those wonderful scriptures once absorbed stay with us, blessed we are Summit.
When our Prince arrives and annoints princes to rule for justice, each one providing a hiding place from the wind Isa321,2. When these three and half years find conclusion that will see the demise of the destroyer Isa33:1. When Jehovah pours out His Spirit Isa32:15, that's when fulfillment of Christ's words come to the fore..' John 14:12 "Most truly I say to you who ever exercises faith in me will also do the works tha I do and he will do works greater than these". Those works included healing the sick, feeding the hungry. These things will occur in what is termed the wilderness Isa 32:15,16 "Justice will reside in the wilderness and righteousness will dwell in the orchard" Where have we heard these words before? In Revelation 12:6 "And the woman fled into the wildrness where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days" Surely everything to hold on and pray for!
 
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When our Prince arrives and annoints princes to rule for justice, each one providing a hiding place from the wind Isa321,2. When these three and half years find conclusion that will see the demise of the destroyer Isa33:1. When Jehovah pours out His Spirit Isa32:15, that's when fulfillment of Christ's words come to the fore..' John 14:12 "Most truly I say to you who ever exercises faith in me will also do the works tha I do and he will do works greater than these". Those works included healing the sick, feeding the hungry. These things will occur in what is termed the wilderness Isa 32:15,16 "Justice will reside in the wilderness and righteousness will dwell in the orchard" Where have we heard these words before? In Revelation 12:6 "And the woman fled into the wildrness where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days" Surely everything to hold on and pray for!
My old friend of over 50yr who we have fought over scripture to no avail even parting company for over a decade because of resentment to each other's beliefs. I am Jehovah's witness and he is a Trinitarian: Wonderful last night where we agreed on scriptures that said will come a time when everyone will know I am Jehovah or in his bible the Lord! Also the reference to when Christ comes again He will set matters straight! Peace between us at last.
 
My old friend of over 50yr who we have fought over scripture to no avail even parting company for over a decade because of resentment to each other's beliefs. I am Jehovah's witness and he is a Trinitarian: Wonderful last night where we agreed on scriptures that said will come a time when everyone will know I am Jehovah or in his bible the Lord! Also the reference to when Christ comes again He will set matters straight! Peace between us at last.
Obviously we know we're right about the trinity... but trinitarians feel the same confidence in their belief. So my son and I have agreed to wait on Jehovah. Unlike most Catholics, he knows Jehovah's name which is a good thing. I told him that if I'm wrong, I have no problem admitting it, and he said the same. It's not about how much we know, or how right we are about things... it's about faith, humility and meekness. I've always had an overabundance of faith thankfully, but I lacked humility and meekness for most of my life. I keep telling Jehovah I don't trust my own conclusions or thoughts, so if he wants me to do or know something... I need to know it's from him and not my own intrusive thoughts.
 
Obviously we know we're right about the trinity... but trinitarians feel the same confidence in their belief. So my son and I have agreed to wait on Jehovah. Unlike most Catholics, he knows Jehovah's name which is a good thing. I told him that if I'm wrong, I have no problem admitting it, and he said the same. It's not about how much we know, or how right we are about things... it's about faith, humility and meekness. I've always had an overabundance of faith thankfully, but I lacked humility and meekness for most of my life. I keep telling Jehovah I don't trust my own conclusions or thoughts, so if he wants me to do or know something... I need to know it's from him and not my own intrusive thoughts.
I'm glad to be learning truths about mysel too Carl: It's good we have been given the time, and that were not scared of the truth about ourselves and willing to learn.....I enjoy your honesty brother.
 
life. I keep telling Jehovah I don't trust my own conclusions or thoughts, so if he wants me to do or know something... I need to know it's from him and not my own intrusive thoughts.
I really like this conclusion Carl. I think of the decades I’ve been in the “truth” where I would argue and debate for hours with infidels and be totally convinced of my/our position yet now I hang my head. I wonder how I was so easily led by the .org and I always thought of myself as a big picture man and rational thinker. Vanity eh?! Good thing the clot shot/stroke poke woke me up. 😳🤓
 
I really like this conclusion Carl. I think of the decades I’ve been in the “truth” where I would argue and debate for hours with infidels and be totally convinced of my/our position yet now I hang my head. I wonder how I was so easily led by the .org and I always thought of myself as a big picture man and rational thinker. Vanity eh?! Good thing the clot shot/stroke poke woke me up. 😳🤓
I think Jehovah’s in the process of waking people up and refining them/us right now. Everyone is proceeding at their own pace… but I think there’s going to be a jump in the awakening process just before Jesus returns.
 
I think Jehovah’s in the process of waking people up and refining them/us right now. Everyone is proceeding at their own pace… but I think there’s going to be a jump in the awakening process just before Jesus returns.
Seems that way to me too. It seems with all the horrors in the world it's lighting a "God seeking" flame. The flame is burning really, really dirty right now but as time goes on, it will become cleaner. We may see Jehovah's name used more and more as people wake up. That would be a really clear indicator to me. Jehovah's name is the most important name in the universe. As Ezekiel says in many places; The nations shall know that my name is Jehovah.
 
Seems that way to me too. It seems with all the horrors in the world it's lighting a "God seeking" flame. The flame is burning really, really dirty right now but as time goes on, it will become cleaner. We may see Jehovah's name used more and more as people wake up. That would be a really clear indicator to me. Jehovah's name is the most important name in the universe. As Ezekiel says in many places; The nations shall know that my name is Jehovah.
I was able to witness today with a woman in town. I didn't get into the Truth, but I made sure she knew God's name. I do it in a way that doesn't come off as me trying to convert them... she's a non-practicing Catholic. I just plant the seed so that when the time comes they'll know His name.
 
I was able to witness today with a woman in town ... I made sure she knew God's name ... I just plant the seed so that when the time comes they'll know His name.
Is knowing the name key to salvation or is knowing the person behind the name the key?
 
Is knowing the name key to salvation or is knowing the person behind the name the key?
When you don't have the chance to get into an in depth Bible study, I feel it's important to educate people on God's name. Helping others to the Truth is a tag team effort. Now this woman knows God's name, so the next person who witnesses to her can go a little further if she's interested.
 
Introductions are important. By the way, what's your name? ;)
Simply telling people "Hey, you know God's name is Jehovah?" Doesn't quite cut it. Paul's an example:

“Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth."

So yes, I introductions are important, but it needs to be followed up by introducing the one behind the name.

BTW ... my name is Jim
 
Simply telling people "Hey, you know God's name is Jehovah?" Doesn't quite cut it. Paul's an example:

“Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; 23 for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: 24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth."

So yes, I introductions are important, but it needs to be followed up by introducing the one behind the name.

BTW ... my name is Jim
Hi Jim. An introduction is just that...an introduction. My name is...and then it goes on from there.
 
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