Has Satan been cast down?

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
"And there shall be signs in sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, in perplexity for the roaring of the sea and the billows; men fainting for fear, and for expectation of the things which are coming on the world: for the powers of the heavens shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. But when these things begin to come to pass, look up, and lift up your heads; because your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:25‭-‬28

"Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe for the earth and for the sea: because the devil is gone down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time."
Revelation 12:12
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
Therefore will we not fear, though the earth do change, And though the mountains be shaken into the heart of the seas; Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, Though the mountains tremble with the swelling thereof. [Selah The nations raged, the kingdoms were moved: He uttered his voice, the earth melted.
Psalms 46:2‭-‬3‭, ‬6

The powers (mountains) of this world will be shaken. In what way? We will see.

"Why do the nations rage, And the peoples meditate a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, And the rulers take counsel together, Against Jehovah, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bonds asunder, And cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens will laugh: The Lord will have them in derision. Then will he speak unto them in his wrath, And vex them in his sore displeasure: Yet I have set my king Upon my holy hill of Zion. I will tell of the decree: Jehovah said unto me, Thou art my son; This day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I will give thee the nations for thine inheritance, And the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; Thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel."
Psalms 2:1‭-‬9
 

Truthseeker

Active member
I have often wondered; If Satan has not been kicked out of heaven, Why did Jesus (way back when he was on the earth) say to pray this way...(the lords prayer at Matthew 6:10)..."Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, AS IN HEAVEN, also upon the earth."???
If Satan were still allowed in heaven would that be Gods will? Would the Heavens with Satan & the demons living in them be the place we should pray for to also be on the earth? I think I would not want to pray that personally. After all I have been instructed to think ...I find it odd to even consider that Satan and the demons could've been kicked out of heaven that long ago at the time Jesus said this in Matthew 6:10...but I did consider it and wondered what all your thoughts are on it.

We do know of course that at Job 1:6 it tells of Satan going right in among the angels and stationing himself before Jehovah..but Job was long before Jesus came to the earth and said to pray this way.

Is there any sound evidence that convinces us that Satan was not cast out of heaven long ago?
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
2 Peter 2:4 speaks of God throwing the angels that sinned into Tartarus...to be reserved for judgment ..this is in the same mention as other things that had already been accomplished/done ... such as Noah and Sodom & Gomorrah.

Then... 1 Peter 3:19-20 Says that after Jesus was resurrected, he preached or heralded to the "spirits who were in prison", who had once been disobedient... when the patience of God was waiting in Noahs day, while the Ark was being constructed".

I always thought...or was taught that this "Tartarus" was the "dense darkness" that Satan & the demons were going to AFTER the GT & 1000 years awaiting to be released to test humans after the 1000 years. But it when you look at 1 Peter 3:19-20 we see differently.

But... it looks like the wicked spirits (or some of them) are already there waiting to be released perhaps at the GT to attack the world. Is this scripture at Rev. 9: 1-11 referring to such a time.. when the pit of the abyss is opened?


Re: the locust that come out at Rev. 9:1-11; (Which is A whole new subject)...I remember The GB teaching about the locust..The Locust were something that the GB took pride in calling themselves along w/all JW's who were to be these locust. Is this correct or was I just not the good little witness listening at the meetings?
Side question here: Is Revelation in chronological order? I remember WT said that it wasn’t but now I have doubts and just wanted to be sure.
 

Truthseeker

Active member
Rev 12:7-9 Ask yourself, has this happened yet?
I am not sure what you are asking regarding Rev. 12:7-9.. Do we see Satan misleading the entire earth? Actually...Yes...He has been misleading the entire earth since the garden of eden. When Jesus was on earth it was very evident that Satan owned everything...and offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth for an act of worship. He and his wicked demons were able to possess people or whatever they wanted. Do you think if war broke out in heaven we would see it from here? How would we really know? Eph. 2:2 "in which you at one time walked according to the system of thing of this world according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience. The effects of this air have been felt for a while & most definitely more-so during the past few years.

I really don't know anything, and I guess it doesn't really matter...But It is nice to be able to discuss matters such as these with each other on this site. We were never allowed to discuss anything off topic in the meetings and I always wanted to ask these questions. Now I get to and I thank you all.
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
I am not sure what you are asking regarding Rev. 12:7-9.. Do we see Satan misleading the entire earth? Actually...Yes...He has been misleading the entire earth since the garden of eden. When Jesus was on earth it was very evident that Satan owned everything...and offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth for an act of worship. He and his wicked demons were able to possess people or whatever they wanted. Do you think if war broke out in heaven we would see it from here? How would we really know? Eph. 2:2 "in which you at one time walked according to the system of thing of this world according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience. The effects of this air have been felt for a while & most definitely more-so during the past few years.

I really don't know anything, and I guess it doesn't really matter...But It is nice to be able to discuss matters such as these with each other on this site. We were never allowed to discuss anything off topic in the meetings and I always wanted to ask these questions. Now I get to and I thank you all.
I think it's hard to say with any absolute confidence. I am seeing a lot of things satan related popping up. Watchful people are exposing the followers. Not like you can't see it. It just doesn't feel like this is extreme yet. When I read those scriptures, that is the impression I get is that it would be a distinct change from the years of satanic influence that can be seen with just a little effort.
From everything I am seeing though, it sure feels like it's close if he isn't cast down already. He's getting itchy. Satan may not know the hour but I'd bet he understands a little about God's timetables. Soon it will be 2000 years since the death of Jesus. 2000 years doesn't ring a bell regarding scripture but it sure seems like it ought to be significant somehow.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
I am not sure what you are asking regarding Rev. 12:7-9.. Do we see Satan misleading the entire earth? Actually...Yes...He has been misleading the entire earth since the garden of eden. When Jesus was on earth it was very evident that Satan owned everything...and offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth for an act of worship. He and his wicked demons were able to possess people or whatever they wanted. Do you think if war broke out in heaven we would see it from here? How would we really know? Eph. 2:2 "in which you at one time walked according to the system of thing of this world according to the ruler of the authority of the air, the spirit that now operates in the sons of disobedience. The effects of this air have been felt for a while & most definitely more-so during the past few years.

I really don't know anything, and I guess it doesn't really matter...But It is nice to be able to discuss matters such as these with each other on this site. We were never allowed to discuss anything off topic in the meetings and I always wanted to ask these questions. Now I get to and I thank you all.

You make some good points. So then if you can prove all the things here Rev 12:7-9 have happened, already then you will be able to answer your question below?

"Is there any sound evidence that convinces us that Satan was not cast out of heaven long ago?"

There can only be one right answer out of two; either Satan was cast out of heaven long ago? or he was not?
Both cannot be right? Maybe we can figure out which is the right one?
 
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Paula

Active member
I came to this site in 2018, and my mind and eyes were opened to what was going on round the world. I was looking at various books such as Noam Chompskys- Who Rules the World and Prisoners of Geography, about Global Politics ( I have a feeling this maybe propaganda. I'll look at it again. I think if I hadn't have found this site I would been oblivious to what's going on. I'm in super heightened anxiety of what's going on next. I could do with less of the anxiety.
 

Truthseeker

Active member
I came to this site in 2018, and my mind and eyes were opened to what was going on round the world. I was looking at various books such as Noam Chompskys- Who Rules the World and Prisoners of Geography, about Global Politics ( I have a feeling this maybe propaganda. I'll look at it again. I think if I hadn't have found this site I would been oblivious to what's going on. I'm in super heightened anxiety of what's going on next. I could do with less of the anxiety.
I get that way often Paula. Sometimes I think there is much validity to the saying... "You Can't handle the Truth".

The truth about who really runs this planet along with his worshipers is truly horrifying! It is all being exposed. There is truly nothing without our hope in Jehovah & Jesus Christ intervening.

For me, waking up to it came in steps and then handing it off or realizing it is not our battle is a crucial step in overcoming anxiety. We don't have choice but to go on living our lives. Staying awake is the where I want to be but not in a constant state of anxiety.

I have stopped looking at a lot of the scary stuff because it builds up too much fear. That is exactly what Satan wants... Fear and confusion. Many are roving about searching the scriptures right now...trying to find answers and timelines. I do it everyday, but then have to just realize, in the end it doesn't really matter...All that matters is that I am on the right side, doing all that I am supposed to be doing & have a deep personal relationship with God!

The Scriptures talk about those who are discerning ... I think this site is great for discerning ones to toss things around with each other...& communication helps reduce anxiety too. There are Many sharp minds on here!
 

Patricia

Well-known member
I came to this site in 2018, and my mind and eyes were opened to what was going on round the world. I was looking at various books such as Noam Chompskys- Who Rules the World and Prisoners of Geography, about Global Politics ( I have a feeling this maybe propaganda. I'll look at it again. I think if I hadn't have found this site I would been oblivious to what's going on. I'm in super heightened anxiety of what's going on next. I could do with less of the anxiety.
Hi @Paula, I have a lot of anxiety too. One of the things that helps me is remembering how many times, in God's word, we are told have no fear, do not be afraid or other similar phrases. I've heard that these phrases are there 365 times. One for every day of the year. I haven't counted myself, but I know it's a lot. Why? Because we are not alone and Jehovah's got this. What is meant to be,will be.
 
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kirmmy

Well-known member
The Scriptures talk about those who are discerning ... I think this site is great for discerning ones to toss things around with each other...& communication helps reduce anxiety too. There are Many sharp minds on here!
It could just have to do with what you said earlier; the WBTS doesn't invite discussion on Bible topics unless they perfectly align with it's teachings. It's just that simple.

When you examine the scriptures openly and with the input of others, it's a wonderful thing. Jehovah takes note:
Mal 3:16
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
"Is there any sound evidence that convinces us that Satan was not cast out of heaven long ago?"
How long ago?
If we check out the story, we can find clues.

Clue #1 The prophecy was written in the book of Revelation chapter 12, sometime during the first century, CE, therefore Satan could not have been kicked out of heaven prior to the prophesy being made?

Clue #2 John “by inspiration came to be in the Lord’s day...” Rev 1:10. reasonably indicating that the book of Revelation relates to the Lord’s day or the second coming of the Christ?

Clue #3 “A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent an angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John.”

Reasonably “the things that must shortly take place...” relates to the Lord’s day and beyond? Also since the scriptures were written for our instructions Ro 15:4 they would be written in words that we can relate to and understand?

Clue #4 In answer to the disciples questions “...when will these things be and what would be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things.” Included in Jesus answer “...for Nation will rise against Nation...” Reasonably the Lord’s day would be around the time of “War Between Nations.”?

We may or may not agree that the Lord’s Day means the Lord Jesus Christ coming into his Kingdom?
Did Jesus come into his Kingdom in 1914 around the time of what has been termed The First World War?

Clue #5 “For whenever you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord until he comes.” 1 Co 11:26. So if Jesus came into his Kingdom in 1914, why are we still proclaiming the death of the Lord in 2022?

Above is just one example of the scriptures questioning the validity of the W/T’s claim that the Kingdom was set up in 1914. Still, Jesus did include in his answer to the disciple’s questions “Nation Will Rise Against Nation” Current events indicate that we are fast approaching such a conflict between nations, WW3?

Clue #6 Revelation chapter 12:1-9, shows that Satan is kicked out of heaven after the Kingdom is set up.
Which is around about now or in the near future?

So then, "Is there any sound evidence that convinces us that Satan was not cast out of heaven long ago”?
We need to make up our own mind based on how we interpret the scriptures?
 

White Stone

Well-known member
I find it odd to even consider that Satan and the demons could've been kicked out of heaven that long ago at the time Jesus said this in Matthew 6:10...but I did consider it and wondered what all your thoughts are on it.
"Is there any sound evidence that convinces us that Satan was not cast out of heaven long ago?"
How long ago?
If we check out the story, we can find clues.

Clue #1 The prophecy was written in the book of Revelation chapter 12, sometime during the first century, CE, therefore Satan could not have been kicked out of heaven prior to the prophesy being made?

Clue #2 John “by inspiration came to be in the Lord’s day...” Rev 1:10. reasonably indicating that the book of Revelation relates to the Lord’s day or the second coming of the Christ?

Clue #3 “A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place. And he sent an angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John.”

Reasonably “the things that must shortly take place...” relates to the Lord’s day and beyond? Also since the scriptures were written for our instructions Ro 15:4 they would be written in words that we can relate to and understand?

Clue #4 In answer to the disciples questions “...when will these things be and what would be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things.” Included in Jesus answer “...for Nation will rise against Nation...” Reasonably the Lord’s day would be around the time of “War Between Nations.”?

We may or may not agree that the Lord’s Day means the Lord Jesus Christ coming into his Kingdom?
Did Jesus come into his Kingdom in 1914 around the time of what has been termed The First World War?

Clue #5 “For whenever you eat this loaf and drink this cup, you keep proclaiming the death of the Lord until he comes.” 1 Co 11:26. So if Jesus came into his Kingdom in 1914, why are we still proclaiming the death of the Lord in 2022?

Above is just one example of the scriptures questioning the validity of the W/T’s claim that the Kingdom was set up in 1914. Still, Jesus did include in his answer to the disciple’s questions “Nation Will Rise Against Nation” Current events indicate that we are fast approaching such a conflict between nations, WW3?

Clue #6 Revelation chapter 12:1-9, shows that Satan is kicked out of heaven after the Kingdom is set up.
Which is around about now or in the near future?

So then, "Is there any sound evidence that convinces us that Satan was not cast out of heaven long ago”?
We need to make up our own mind based on how we interpret the scriptures?
The seventh trumpet signals the start of the ruling of Christ in heaven and earth, the start of the thousand years, which did not hapoen yet. But according to WT this verse already happened according to The Watchtower, October 15,1990 magazine issue.

Revelation 11:15 “The seventh angel blew his trumpet. And there were loud voices in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world has become the Kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”

So the WT is teaching that Christ will rule more than 1000 years.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
Not sure if the WT is teaching that Christ will rule more than 1000 years. I was trained by the W/T for 20 years and I don't recall learning that? I've been inactive in the congregation since 2002. @White Stone, are/were you a JW?
Yes. Though not directly teaching he will rule more than 1000 years. But by their teaching that Christ already started ruling as King in heaven, in effect, they are teaching that Christ is ruling now aside from the 1000 years that will happen in the future. That’s why I said that they are teaching Christ is ruling more than 1000 years, though indirectly or not knowing.
 
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