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A B

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Be careful, remember knowledge puffs up but love builds up. not everything discussed on this forum is correct but many things are.

If you have the hope of a prominent position in supporting Jehovah's sovereignty you have to watch all your steps carefully.

The organization still does a great job of teaching people the basic truths, leading moral lives, and staying clear (mostly) of Satan's political system and that will be even more important in the future.

When I was baptized decades ago I knew 1914 was iffy because I saw they were using two different 70 year periods when the Bible indicated just one, but that was about all I knew. I thought well what does it matter, who am I, it will probably work itself out. Now that many years have gone by my opinion is more informed but I am very glad I didn't make any rash decisions. (It is more important now because it affects the understanding of events in Revelation including chapters 11-13.....and it is sad that it has stumbled so many people over the years.)

There are many people out there to be reached with basic Bible truths and there is a very organized effort in over a thousand languages to help these people learn it. They are precious. I understand some of the foundation is faulty and dangerous in places but I don't see anything better for these people out there.
 
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A B

Well-known member
That is not entirely true. Russell had originally adopted the Adventist's chronology tied to the seven times. The pyramid measurements were considered a second witness, which Russell referred to as a 'witness in stone.' It was reasoned that since the Hebrew slaves probably had a hand in constructing the pyramids Jehovah used them to impart some secret chronology embedded in the hidden chambers. :rolleyes:
NASA just tried to nudge that asteroid a tiny percentage because over time it translates into a much larger course difference.

The inch was just a loose measurements of someone's thumb width, can't be found in history until about the year 1120, wasn't formalized in length until about the 1950s.

One persons thumb width x 2520 compared to another persons thumb with x 2520 will get you vastly different measurements. Just like nudging the asteroid.

Nonsense from the beginning.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
Great to have you with us brother, what wonderful stumbling we have endured, I too came across Roberts original group many many years ago, it was an oasis for many of us back then who were exposed to the JW ten year partnership with the UN. It’s great to see so many coming to the true light of Gods word worshipping in spirit & in truth.
Thank you Shekinah.
 

Shekinah

Well-known member
That is not entirely true. Russell had originally adopted the Adventist's chronology tied to the seven times. The pyramid measurements were considered a second witness, which Russell referred to as a 'witness in stone.' It was reasoned that since the Hebrew slaves probably had a hand in constructing the pyramids Jehovah used them to impart some secret chronology embedded in the hidden chambers. :rolleyes:
From my research, they say the main pyramid was built by the Hyksos Kings at the direction of Melchizedek, that the other two were poor attempts by the Egyptians. Russell thought it was the altar to Jehovah I think he was just following others with this trend at this time, I think Charles Piazzi Smyth an Astronomer was the first to come up with this theory.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
Be careful, remember knowledge puffs up but love builds up. not everything discussed on this forum is correct but many things are.

If you have the hope of a prominent position in supporting Jehovah's sovereignty you have to watch all your steps carefully.

The organization still does a great job of teaching people the basic truths, leading moral lives, and staying clear (mostly) of Satan's political system and that will be even more important in the future.

When I was baptized decades ago I knew 1914 was iffy because I saw they were using two different 70 year periods when the Bible indicated just one, but that was about all I knew. I thought well what does it matter, who am I, it will probably work itself out. Now that many years have gone by my opinion is more informed but I am very glad I didn't make any rash decisions. (It is more important now because it affects the understanding of events in Revelation including chapters 11-13.....and it is sad that it has stumbled so many people over the years.)

There are many people out there to be reached with basic Bible truths and there is a very organized effort in over a thousand languages to help these people learn it. They are precious. I understand some of the foundation is faulty and dangerous in places but I don't see anything better for these people out there.
Thanks for the reminder A B. True, knowledge puffs up and it took me a long time to adjust. When an announcement was made to preach through cart came, I prayed to the Father if it’s okay to participate on preaching with the organization publicly, and He has given me the answer that night during a dream that it’s okay to go with the “preterist”.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
NASA just tried to nudge that asteroid a tiny percentage because over time it translates into a much larger course difference.

The inch was just a loose measurements of someone's thumb width, can't be found in history until about the year 1120, wasn't formalized in length until about the 1950s.

One persons thumb width x 2520 compared to another persons thumb with x 2520 will get you vastly different measurements. Just like nudging the asteroid.

Nonsense from the beginning.
And the egyptians or hebrews at that time used a different measurement. If one were to consider the measurement, it should be with the egyptian or hebrew unit. But still as you said, its nonsense from the beginning.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Be careful, remember knowledge puffs up but love builds up. not everything discussed on this forum is correct but many things are.

If you have the hope of a prominent position in supporting Jehovah's sovereignty you have to watch all your steps carefully.

The organization still does a great job of teaching people the basic truths, leading moral lives, and staying clear (mostly) of Satan's political system and that will be even more important in the future.

When I was baptized decades ago I knew 1914 was iffy because I saw they were using two different 70 year periods when the Bible indicated just one, but that was about all I knew. I thought well what does it matter, who am I, it will probably work itself out. Now that many years have gone by my opinion is more informed but I am very glad I didn't make any rash decisions. (It is more important now because it affects the understanding of events in Revelation including chapters 11-13.....and it is sad that it has stumbled so many people over the years.)

There are many people out there to be reached with basic Bible truths and there is a very organized effort in over a thousand languages to help these people learn it. They are precious. I understand some of the foundation is faulty and dangerous in places but I don't see anything better for these people out there.
I am not sure there being nothing better out there (than watchtower) in terms preaching the word is a valid justification for the watchtower. I do not disagree with with the thinking that watchtower has brought basic knowledge to people world wide and certainly, few if any of us would be here were it not for watchtower. Added to that, is the fact that watchtower must exist for prophesy to be fulfilled - ergo, a people of Jehovah. Watchtower does not provide the soil for growth in faith.
It is not possible to deny that a sense of natural endearment to and for the Grand Creator is an innate faculty of the human mind. No one on the earth seeks for God (pardon my supposed blasphemy), but rather they seek an understanding of God. The body comes equipped with the God App already installed. The watchtower is fond of saying that ignorance is not a virtue worthy of forgiveness. There is some truth in that thinking in that to deny the Creator, is perverse to anyone with a modicum of intelligence above that of a cabbage (30 on the Cattel scale). The most significant reason for so doing is choice. People choose to act against the natural inclination to seek the reason of our existence and I know of no one person who seeking Jehovah, has not found Him. Creation speaks for itself. Yes, were there no one to speak of Jehovah, the stones would cry out, but no stone has ever had the need to as yet, because there has always been truth within us as witness.The watchtower is an example in having known truth, or understood it’s essence, but has chosen to corrupt it. Thus where is truth now? Hidden in a lie. It is Jehovah that leads his people to truth. Not watchtower. The final test is far and away above the ability of watchtower to assist. It has to be defended in the heart. Only faith will provide that, and a faith based on love of Jehovah and Christ. The watchtower does not appear to be qualified to reveal the love of Jehovah, only a sign post in the right direction, but that signpost has been turned around long ago.
 

A B

Well-known member
I am not sure there being nothing better out there (than watchtower) in terms preaching the word is a valid justification for the watchtower. I do not disagree with with the thinking that watchtower has brought basic knowledge to people world wide and certainly, few if any of us would be here were it not for watchtower. Added to that, is the fact that watchtower must exist for prophesy to be fulfilled - ergo, a people of Jehovah. Watchtower does not provide the soil for growth in faith.
It is not possible to deny that a sense of natural endearment to and for the Grand Creator is an innate faculty of the human mind. No one on the earth seeks for God (pardon my supposed blasphemy), but rather they seek an understanding of God. The body comes equipped with the God App already installed. The watchtower is fond of saying that ignorance is not a virtue worthy of forgiveness. There is some truth in that thinking in that to deny the Creator, is perverse to anyone with a modicum of intelligence above that of a cabbage (30 on the Cattel scale). The most significant reason for so doing is choice. People choose to act against the natural inclination to seek the reason of our existence and I know of no one person who seeking Jehovah, has not found Him. Creation speaks for itself. Yes, were there no one to speak of Jehovah, the stones would cry out, but no stone has ever had the need to as yet, because there has always been truth within us as witness.The watchtower is an example in having known truth, or understood it’s essence, but has chosen to corrupt it. Thus where is truth now? Hidden in a lie. It is Jehovah that leads his people to truth. Not watchtower. The final test is far and away above the ability of watchtower to assist. It has to be defended in the heart. Only faith will provide that, and a faith based on love of Jehovah and Christ. The watchtower does not appear to be qualified to reveal the love of Jehovah, only a sign post in the right direction, but that signpost has been turned around long ago.
True, but there has to be more to following in Jesus footsteps than picking on Watchtower (even when they deserve it).
 

JMJ

Active member
True, but there has to be more to following in Jesus footsteps than picking on Watchtower (even when they deserve it).
Robert used to have this quote from the January 15 , 1974 Watchtower on his first edition of Jehovah has become king book ....
Can You Be True to God, Yet Hide the Facts?

WHAT results when a lie is let go unchallenged? Does not silence help the lie to pass as truth, to have freer sway to influence many, perhaps to their serious harm?

What happens when misconduct and immorality are allowed to go unexposed and uncondemned? Is this not like covering over an infection without any effort to cure it and keep it from spreading?

When persons are in great danger from a source that they do not suspect or are being misled by those they consider their friends, is it an unkindness to warn them? They may prefer not to believe the warning. They may even resent it. But does that free one from the moral responsibility to give that warning?

If you are among those seeking to be faithful to God, the issues these questions raise are vital for you today. Why? Because God’s servants in every period of history have had to face up to the challenge these issues present. They have had to expose falsehood and wrongdoing and warn people of dangers and deception—not just in a general way, but in a specific way, in the interest of pure worship. It would have been far easier to keep silent or say only what people wanted to hear. But faithfulness to God and love of neighbor moved them to speak. They realized that “better is a revealed reproof than a concealed love.”—Prov. 27:5.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
You're actually publicly admitting in this forum that Almighty God answers you and communicates to you via dreams?
That is apparently not an unusual event. The governing body have a direct channel to Jehovah and it seems they have arranged regular meetings to discuss new light, thus it is entirely understandable if someone claims to be spoken to in dreams as the governing body seem to be In a perpetual dream in this respect. Martin King - clearly a close relative of Robert’s said the same thing. “I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed, ..that all men are created equal.” (I think I quote correctly). And that essentially is correct in the eyes of Jehovah in that we are all judged with equality and love from Jehovah, each in their own right. Sadly, if I believed my own sarcasm, my route in so far as dreams go, is directly into hell. I get dreadful nightmares.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
You're actually publicly admitting in this forum that Almighty God answers you and communicates to you via dreams?
Not all the time but at times that I really need it.
James 1:5 “So if any one of you is lacking in wisdom, let him keep asking God, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching, and it will be given him”​

James 1:6-8 “But let him keep asking in faith, not doubting at all, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and blown about. In fact, that man should not expect to receive anything from Jehovah; he is an indecisive man, unsteady in all his ways.
Since ancient times, God communicated through dreams even to those who do not serve him like Pharaoh, King Nebuchadnezzar, the wife of Potiphar etc. How much more if it is His servants who asked Him for guidance?

As the Lord said: “Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you; for everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking, it will be opened.”—Matthew 7:7,8

Matthew 21:22 And all the things you ask in prayer, having faith, you will receive.”
 

White Stone

Well-known member
That is apparently not an unusual event. The governing body have a direct channel to Jehovah and it seems they have arranged regular meetings to discuss new light, thus it is entirely understandable if someone claims to be spoken to in dreams as the governing body seem to be In a perpetual dream in this respect. Martin King - clearly a close relative of Robert’s said the same thing. “I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed, ..that all men are created equal.” (I think I quote correctly). And that essentially is correct in the eyes of Jehovah in that we are all judged with equality and love from Jehovah, each in their own right. Sadly, if I believed my own sarcasm, my route in so far as dreams go, is directly into hell. I get dreadful nightmares.
That is apparently not an unusual event. The governing body have a direct channel to Jehovah and it seems they have arranged regular meetings to discuss new light, thus it is entirely understandable if someone claims to be spoken to in dreams as the governing body seem to be In a perpetual dream in this respect. Martin King - clearly a close relative of Robert’s said the same thing. “I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed, ..that all men are created equal.” (I think I quote correctly). And that essentially is correct in the eyes of Jehovah in that we are all judged with equality and love from Jehovah, each in their own right. Sadly, if I believed my own sarcasm, my route in so far as dreams go, is directly into hell. I get dreadful nightmares.
@BARNABY THE DOG. The fact that you get dreadful nightmares could indicate that you are being attacked by demons. There are two reasons that I could think of.

1) You are being attacked because you have a close relationship with Jehovah by staying faithful.
2) You have let the demons yourself to have authority over you. This can be done by watching or entertaining on the media that has demonic influence and magic etc., things that Jehovah has commanded us to stay away from.

I hope that it is the first reason, otherwise, examine yourself in your daily life if you have let a thing of Satan to enter your heart or mind and repent and ask prayerfully for guidance.

Was the nightmares often?
 

TheJehuChariot

Well-known member
Not all the time but at times that I really need it.
Honestly, I find you to be a few sandwiches away from a picnic, delusional and self grandizing. That's not the silent God I know and youve misapplied, misinterpreted and misappropriated the scriptures youve quoted. So no, I do not believe that's how God works post biblical times prior to the parousia. The way you also demonstrably argue with Robert on this forum and make your word sound as definitive fact also highlights your delusion and misguided thoughts. Most significantly, the conduct lacks "discrete, humility". With all that being said, have at it....be you. A leopard can't change its spots and you are just as naked before the Creator in preparation for warranted discipline as the rest of us. Thanks for the glimpse of who you appear to be
 

TheJehuChariot

Well-known member
@BARNABY THE DOG. The fact that you get dreadful nightmares could indicate that you are being attacked by demons. There are two reasons that I could think of.

1) You are being attacked because you have a close relationship with Jehovah by staying faithful.
2) You have let the demons yourself to have authority over you. This can be done by watching or entertaining on the media that has demonic influence and magic etc., things that Jehovah has commanded us to stay away from.

I hope that it is the first reason, otherwise, examine yourself in your daily life if you have let a thing of Satan to enter your heart or mind and repent and ask prayerfully for guidance.

Was the nightmares often?
Yeah I think it's #2. Apparently Burt was in love with Judy Garland at one stage so he watched The Wizard of Oz a few too many times. I think it was the flying monkeys and wicked witch that got him in trouble. Oh, and he also loves 1940s/50's horror movies. I think it was "Frankenstein, Swamp Thing and War of the World's" that finally got him disfellowshipped by some British elders. I'm sure the demons have been torturing him for that past bad conduct and sounds like he may have started up watching "Snow White" again.
 

TheJehuChariot

Well-known member
That is apparently not an unusual event. The governing body have a direct channel to Jehovah and it seems they have arranged regular meetings to discuss new light, thus it is entirely understandable if someone claims to be spoken to in dreams as the governing body seem to be In a perpetual dream in this respect. Martin King - clearly a close relative of Robert’s said the same thing. “I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed, ..that all men are created equal.” (I think I quote correctly). And that essentially is correct in the eyes of Jehovah in that we are all judged with equality and love from Jehovah, each in their own right. Sadly, if I believed my own sarcasm, my route in so far as dreams go, is directly into hell. I get dreadful nightmares.
I believe this effective, well deserved sarcasm flew right over his head like a U2.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
Honestly, I find you to be a few sandwiches away from a picnic, delusional and self grandizing. That's not the silent God I know and youve misapplied, misinterpreted and misappropriated the scriptures youve quoted. So no, I do not believe that's how God works post biblical times prior to the parousia. The way you also demonstrably argue with Robert on this forum and make your word sound as definitive fact also highlights your delusion and misguided thoughts. Most significantly, the conduct lacks "discrete, humility". With all that being said, have at it....be you. A leopard can't change its spots and you are just as naked before the Creator in preparation for warranted discipline as the rest of us. Thanks for the glimpse of who you appear to be
I don’t fully know why you are inclined to feel that way. I was happy that I shared it for others to know that God is still working to this day with miracles and have their faith strengthened in Him.

When Corinthians had the outpouring of the gifts of the holy spirit, Paul instructed then to let it manifest in an orderly way for others to benefit.(1 Corinthians 12:4-11; 14:26-40) Was Paul envious of those who received the gifts? No, he even encourage them to pursue it.(1 Corinthians 12:31; 14:1)

To be honest, I have become dogmatic when I first came here, and is learning from that until now. I try to limit that and rather reason with the scriptures with patience. I would try to question understandings the same case with Berean and other christians no matter where it came from as it is said to test inspired expressions. Would gladly be questioned also of my understanding of the scriptures so that I could see where I got it wrong and be corrected.

Anyway, God is still doing wondrous works even today. The pharisees and other Jews have seen Jesus do miracles and still did not believe, how much more so today? As the scriptures has said: “there is nothing impossible for God.” and He is the hearer of prayers.

1 Peter 3:12 “For the eyes of Jehovah are on the righteous, and his ears listen to their supplication, but the face of Jehovah is against those doing bad things.”
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Yeah I think it's #2. Apparently Burt was in love with Judy Garland at one stage so he watched The Wizard of Oz a few too many times. I think it was the flying monkeys and wicked witch that got him in trouble. Oh, and he also loves 1940s/50's horror movies. I think it was "Frankenstein, Swamp Thing and War of the World's" that finally got him disfellowshipped by some British elders. I'm sure the demons have been torturing him for that past bad conduct and sounds like he may have started up watching "Snow White" again.
It’s true. I deserve it. I knew the wizard of Oz was wicked. The elders had counselled me about it but in my youth during war, I was already hardened to the evils of Hitler and ignored their advice. It was either that, or the fact that I was wearing second hand clothes ravaged from the bomb sites that had been worn by devil worshippers. I had better stop now before I invoke the wrath of Satan even more. (I think I must have grown tolerant to my medication and need a review!).
 
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