Hi! Newbie here

[MickHewitt]

True. There are many ways to reach the senses. The brain is a profound mechanism of Ingenuity . What irritates, maybe even intrigues me about this issue of dreams from Jehovah as a means to point the way is, why on earth would he do so via a riddle or illustration that can be misunderstood, or confuse the person? If Jehovah wanted to give someone a one to one advantage in insight into a particular course of action, would He not do so explicitly, rather than via an illusion of thought that can be misconstrued or ambiguous or indeed, leave the recipient wondering what it meant? If I sent you a letter describing a motorway slip road, how many conclusions could you draw from that, besides the reason why would I do such a thing?

Exactly! Jehovah wants to catch us in not catch us out with unobtainable understanding.

 

[White Stone]

No, I totally agree with what you’re saying. The main part of those verses in 1Corinthians I was focusing on ( and in context of course) was that “those things would be done away with.”
I wouldn’t think that just any given person could just ‘claim’ to interpret dreams. If that were the case, anyone could make some claim about something but it may or not be true. Just like WT claims they are the FDS but how do we know? Well, most of us on this forum well know the truth about that.
I just can’t believe Jehovah would back someone just claiming to interpret dreams…and maybe because he calls himself White Stone? Why not give his real name like Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, among others?

That’s just my two cents I’m putting in…for what it’s worth.

I think you’re not understanding what is going on. I did not claim to be an interpreter of dreams, like that of Daniel. The point being, was having a dream from God. It could be a reminder or faith strengthener(like dreaming of paradise) or an answer to ones query. Whether it comes from God, God knows.

It seems to me you have point it all to have a prophetic significance, which was not the points I present. Maybe you are just reading others statements but not statements from me.

 

[White Stone]

Christ has not returned. The parousia has not begun. The two witnesses have not been initiated. There are no dreams, for there is no purpose to fulfill yet. That is how God works. Fairly simple

Can we just agree to disagree?

Yes, the complete comes at Christ’s return or coming. Which will happen “after” the prophesying of the Two Witnesses. Christ’s coming(Parousia) is associated with his manifestation or revelation, which triggers the Armageddon which is also called the conclusion of system of things or end of age. Where every eye will see and all the tribes on earth will beat themselves in grief when they see the Christ coming with all his angels.

 

[White Stone]

Well yes of course. But that does not do away with learning through contending the issue. I am trying to satisfy my own reasoning. Would Jehovah speak to others in dreams? I want to know. The issue of Jehovah directing us through dreams was claimed to be true. I want to see the evidence and not be given a simple reiteration of the same claim as an answer. An assumption does not become a fact simply by repeating it in a multiplicity of ways - even if watchtower think it does. The instances of dreams and visions are explained in the bible and resolved. No one doubts Saul’s experience. The writing on the wall at Babylon was explained. These things were for the fulfilment of prophesy and in example. If a brother claims to have the power to interpret dreams, then I want to know about it and tease out the truth. Is that not so in all of us? How many times do we have to be reminded of watchtowers infidelity?

I think were going around at the start again. But yes, unless the dream has prophetic significance or at least, can have an external evidence, then you can’t prove it to others.

Can we just agree to disagree?

Nevertheless, thank you for being understanding.

 

[White Stone]

Dreams given are not always necessarily to be of prophetic significance, but often times for direction, reminder and the likes. If God sees the need to provide direction or answer the one who pleads to Him through a dream, or strengthen others through it, what are we to say to Him?

I want to clarify something or a correction here. As I’m rereading it, it seems this can also be interpreted as pleading God to answer him through a dream, which is not what I intended. It was to be meant, if one pleads to God for answer, and He decided to give the answer through a dream.

 

[The God Pill]

No, I totally agree with what you’re saying. The main part of those verses in 1Corinthians I was focusing on ( and in context of course) was that “those things would be done away with.”
I wouldn’t think that just any given person could just ‘claim’ to interpret dreams. If that were the case, anyone could make some claim about something but it may or not be true. Just like WT claims they are the FDS but how do we know? Well, most of us on this forum well know the truth about that.
I just can’t believe Jehovah would back someone just claiming to interpret dreams…and maybe because he calls himself White Stone? Why not give his real name like Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, among others?

That’s just my two cents I’m putting in…for what it’s worth.

When humans have subjective personal experiences they have confidence in they'll stick by them generally. When Paul encountered christ on the road to damascus those with him did not see christ only witnessed the sound of a voice. It's easy to separate white stone's opinions from his experiences I can disagree with some of the former without being enraged by the latter as some have.

I can say as a great crowder that knows a half dozen annointed in my county the revilers here don't know Jehovah or anoint/ed/ing half as well as they assert. What are people's business discriminating against age when Paul indicated some of the chosen in the first century were even reformed Sodomites.

 

[White Stone]

It’s never a waste of time to try and help someone when we see the need to help, no matter how bombastic it may be.

When I said they are wasting their time is by repeating the same ridicule or mockery lines.

Of course I saw genuine questions and I have appreciated it. But if the argument becomes the same and repeating line of thought, or ends with mockery, with no end in sight, then it is better to discuss or do other things. Hope you understand what I meant.

 

[Arctic Cat]

Paul also said this in galatians 5 as (apparently the anointed back then was phrone to the same imperfections as we all are.. until we are healed from sin..) this scripture always came up in my head after having heated arguments i look forward to the day I will be able to master my temper perfectly

 

[evw]

I thought Nomex’s comment rather funny. I can see him doing the same to me.

oke, in that case I'm taking the whole thing way to serious; my mistake being corrected, thanks

 

[White Stone]

Paul also said this in galatians 5 as (apparently the anointed back then was phrone to the same imperfections as we all are.. until we are healed from sin..) this scripture always came up in my head after having heated arguments i look forward to the day I will be able to master my temper perfectly View attachment 2092

Beautiful scripture @Arctic Cat . Thanks for the reminder

 

[MickHewitt]

Completely absurd.

First family I was introduced to in the truth: Non stop spook stories. How they had a wicked aunt who sent a Christmas card and it would not burn no matter how they tried.... imagine a young heart's impression of these nutters! No wonder the endless mental health problems. A pioneer sister after being interrogated of her sexual encounter.....now is suffering Obsessive Compulsive hand washing! I could go on. .A terrible needless scrutiny into our personal feelings......Aaaagh! Hosea 4:8 'They feed on our sin' 'They are greedy for our error'!

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

No, I totally agree with what you’re saying. The main part of those verses in 1Corinthians I was focusing on ( and in context of course) was that “those things would be done away with.”
I wouldn’t think that just any given person could just ‘claim’ to interpret dreams. If that were the case, anyone could make some claim about something but it may or not be true. Just like WT claims they are the FDS but how do we know? Well, most of us on this forum well know the truth about that.
I just can’t believe Jehovah would back someone just claiming to interpret dreams…and maybe because he calls himself White Stone? Why not give his real name like Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, among others?

That’s just my two cents I’m putting in…for what it’s worth.

I agree. I was pondering on the darkness that we walk in, last night. Don’t you think we are regressing in values in our lives; generally, I mean? Paul it was I think, that said we view through a glass darkly. The downward trend in all things of value, including life itself, appears so noticeable even in my life time and the understanding of things, that much harder to achieve. Now, we cannot even question even social issues without being hauled before a court of law. What we term as life now, may well differ infinitely with life in the new order In that we will wonder how we ever managed.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I think were going around at the start again. But yes, unless the dream has prophetic significance or at least, can have an external evidence, then you can’t prove it to others.

Can we just agree to disagree?

Nevertheless, thank you for being understanding.

No, not really. There is truth in agreeing to differ in understanding. It does not apply to falsity. That would be an abdication of standards. There must be truth in the matter of faith otherwise our understanding is wayward. If you are unable to prove your point, you are surely deceiving yourself. My questions are legitimate and not without substance in scripture (I hope), but your argument is based on assumptions that you assume upon yourself. It is not me who is starting to go around in circles. I have progressed my argument step by step, but you decline to answer - or cannot substantiate at the very least. If what you have to say is scriptural, then please quote it and show me where it is supported in the bible. I will read it, certainly.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

First family I was introduced to in the truth: Non stop spook stories. How they had a wicked aunt who sent a Christmas card and it would not burn no matter how they tried.... imagine a young heart's impression of these nutters! No wonder the endless mental health problems. A pioneer sister after being interrogated of her sexual encounter.....now is suffering Obsessive Compulsive hand washing! I could go on. .A terrible needless scrutiny into our personal feelings......Aaaagh! Hosea 4:8 'They feed on our sin' 'They are greedy for our error'!

Mick, I think that describes what WT has done to us on this mental ‘merry go round’ we can’t seem to get off of.
I remember being told a similar story as you, when I was new in the truth…except it was told by a sister who said that Loretta Lynn (country singer ) had been dabbling
in spiritism, and they had one of her albums they tried to burn. They tried to do everything to burn it up and finally the album just exploded!

One other crazy story we were told in more recent years, a sister was being questioned in a judicial meeting about her immoral conduct. She claimed to have multiple personalities and said that there were one or two of them who made her give in to her immoral conduct, making it hard for her to control. Well, as the brothers were trying to decide whether or not to DF her, they then decided to call the branch and were told that they were to DF all her personalities!

I promise you ,I didn’t make this up!

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Exactly! Jehovah wants to catch us in not catch us out with unobtainable understanding.

I often have dreams that I can fly, not as a bird, but simply unaffected by gravity. Should I draw from that then, that I may be in for the spirit realm?! It is one of the dreams that I enjoy having - it’s like being on a hover board. Exhilarating!

 

[TheJehuChariot]

Well, you can’t fault some of us for having righteous indignation, can you?

And as for you giving us advice on how to be wise…maybe it would be ‘wiser’ for you to read your Bible or do other beneficial things besides posting this thread to make a showy display of your being able to interpret dreams. Aren’t you being more like the Pharisees and Sadducees? Where’s your Christlike attitude?

I think everyone has been pretty fair here trying to reason with you on this topic. Don’t you agree? And if not, maybe it’s because they don’t agree with you. Why did you post this thread if you only wanted comments that would puff you up? Did you only want those who read it to come on here and kiss up to you by giving you praise? Remember what the apostle Paul said about that?

It’s never a waste of time to try and help someone when we see the need to help, no matter how bombastic it may be. Unless you already think you have it all figured out.
I have nothing against you personally, I don’t even know you but you really should pray to Jehovah in earnestness, and if all you can take away from these comments is that we’re wasting our time here…then you might be alone in achieving whatever you’re setting out to do. If I were you I would stop and consider what those have responded on this thread to you. Try to understand the meaning and the intent behind the words. Humility on your part will go a long way.

*And I don’t consider this as scoffing.

Hopefully, your sista in the faith.

Eloquently expressed w/love.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

Eloquently expressed w/love.

Thank you Jehu…and I was serious but all of that said he only took one line out of it to comment about and didn’t even answer one of those questions. It’s just as you said earlier, I believe what I so eloquently put out there for @White Stone to consider, flew right over his head like a U2.

(Sigh)

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Mick, I think that describes what WT has done to us on this mental ‘merry go round’ we can’t seem to get off of.
I remember being told a similar story as you, when I was new in the truth…except it was told by a sister who said that Loretta Lynn (country singer ) had been dabbling
in spiritism, and they had one of her albums they tried to burn. They tried to do everything to burn it up and finally the album just exploded!

One other crazy story we were told in more recent years, a sister was being questioned in a judicial meeting about her immoral conduct. She claimed to have multiple personalities and said that there were one or two of them who made her give in to her immoral conduct, making it hard for her to control. Well, as the brothers were trying to decide whether or not to DF her, they then decided to call the branch and were told that they were to DF all her personalities!

I promise you ,I didn’t make this up!

Disfellowship ALL her personalities. Strange thing to say when it is only one body. Why not encourage the good personality and thus help her to overcome the bad ones? She needed help, not vilification and being ostracised. The elders are always afraid of what they do not understand. If a family member commits a crime, you don’t execute the whole family. Maybe you do if you are working in the branch office. Must be tough if your room mate at bethel sins and they disfellowship you just for being in the same room. The mentality is all screwed up. I know my sister is wishing me dead so that in her watchtower mentality I get a resurrection. Die now! Before it’s too late! Sounds like an advert for a washing machine. I would think, joking apart, that if this sister did have trouble with her sense of self, it may have more than a little to do with the watchtower regime of mental dissonance than intentional wrongdoing. People need to feel valued in life, and watchtower, whilst preaching “unity”, work positively to destroy the sense of individualism and self worth. It is one of the marks of truth, that the individual is valued and nurtured in the community we call the brethren for the simple reason, that love desires value and peace in another rather than control and dominance.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

Disfellowship ALL her personalities. Strange thing to say when it is only one body. Why not encourage the good personality and thus help her to overcome the bad ones? She needed help, not vilification and being ostracised. The elders are always afraid of what they do not understand. If a family member commits a crime, you don’t execute the whole family. Maybe you do if you are working in the branch office. Must be tough if your room mate at bethel sins and they disfellowship you just for being in the same room. The mentality is all screwed up. I know my sister is wishing me dead so that in her watchtower mentality I get a resurrection. Die now! Before it’s too late! Sounds like an advert for a washing machine. I would think, joking apart, that if this sister did have trouble with her sense of self, it may have more than a little to do with the watchtower regime of mental dissonance than intentional wrongdoing. People need to feel valued in life, and watchtower, whilst preaching “unity”, work positively to destroy the sense of individualism and self worth. It is one of the marks of truth, that the individual is valued and nurtured in the community we call the brethren for the simple reason, that love desires value and peace in another rather than control and dominance.

BTD you describe WT’s way of handling matters is so precise it’s outrageous and laughable at the same time. I have to admit I had to laugh while reading it. It took me a few minutes to get through it.

 

[Jonah]

MPD and DID are both highly disputed in the psychiatric profession as to actually existing, and if so, extremely rare. I don't believe you can allow someone to practice sin under that basis and still be a part of the congregation. In the end, they need medical treatment and if they get it under control, I'm sure they would be reinstated. And if not, Jehovah knows the truth and will not penalize them for things out of their control, in his judgment.