How I do love your law! All day long it is my concern.

[The God Pill]

Psalms 119:97 How I do love your law! All day long it is my concern. 98 Wiser than my enemies your commandment makes me, Because to time indefinite it is mine. 99 More insight than all my teachers I have come to have, Because your reminders are a concern to me.100 With more understanding than older men I behave, Because I have observed your own orders.
101 From every bad path I have restrained my feet, For the purpose that I may keep your word.102 From your judicial decisions I have not turned aside, For you yourself have instructed me.103 How smooth to my palate your sayings have been, More so than honey to my mouth!

The Law: All 613 Commandments!

www.gospeloutreach.net

Last week I was reading most of this list of the mosaic law we reference small parts of it at congregation meetings every month but I don't think even the weeks every few years when we're going through Leviticus and Deuteronomy in the weekly bible reading we have opportunity to digest it all simple as it. When we read the Hebrew scriptures of it much of it's prophetic expressions of Jehovah's displeasure to his wayward people the old law provides it's own glimpse pov of Jehovah's point of view we'll never stop learning about him and that's a supreme pleasure

 

[Posstot]

Psalms 119:97 How I do love your law! All day long it is my concern. 98 Wiser than my enemies your commandment makes me, Because to time indefinite it is mine. 99 More insight than all my teachers I have come to have, Because your reminders are a concern to me.100 With more understanding than older men I behave, Because I have observed your own orders.
101 From every bad path I have restrained my feet, For the purpose that I may keep your word.102 From your judicial decisions I have not turned aside, For you yourself have instructed me.103 How smooth to my palate your sayings have been, More so than honey to my mouth!

The Law: All 613 Commandments!

www.gospeloutreach.net

Last week I was reading most of this list of the mosaic law we reference small parts of it at congregation meetings every month but I don't think even the weeks every few years when we're going through Leviticus and Deuteronomy in the weekly bible reading we have opportunity to digest it all simple as it. When we read the Hebrew scriptures of it much of it's prophetic expressions of Jehovah's displeasure to his wayward people the old law provides it's own glimpse pov of Jehovah's point of view we'll never stop learning about him and that's a supreme pleasure

Interesting, I agree; and yet, 'the law made nothing and nobody perfect because of its weakness and ineffectiveness,' which is why it was replaced with a better hope than our chance of pulling ourselves up by our own boot straps, namely, that Jesus accomplished for us what we neither could nor should have done in our inherited fallen state. Heb 7:18,19

 

[The God Pill]

Interesting, I agree; and yet, 'the law made nothing and nobody perfect because of its weakness and ineffectiveness,' which is why it was replaced with a better hope than our chance of pulling ourselves up by our own boot straps, namely, that Jesus accomplished for us what we neither could nor should have done in our inherited fallen state. Heb 7:18,19

I am not trying to be contentious or rude brother because that reaction is very instinctual to the majority of Christians in the west at almost a Is everyone mkultra'd level. But is it conceivable a human could ever try to please the creator by being familiar with rules he instituted at some point not practicing 600+ rules etc. Don't take it personally because I'm saying this more at protestants in general than at anyone at the forum but is it possible one might not have an obsession with soul salvation or status differentiation in responding to the law with less contempt than spitting at it. There's a reason for everything we're not bound by this but there was a thought process that went into it. Quietly in your apartment seeking every avenue of making Jehovah more happy is not virtue signaling in outward displays of rule following like the pharisees or thinking it is somehow worth an octilionth as much as the ransom

 

[Posstot]

I am not trying to be contentious or rude brother because that reaction is very instinctual to the majority of Christians in the west at almost a Is everyone mkultra'd level. But is it conceivable a human could ever try to please the creator by being familiar with rules he instituted at some point not practicing 600+ rules etc. Don't take it personally because I'm saying this more at protestants in general than at anyone at the forum but is it possible one might not have an obsession with soul salvation or status differentiation in responding to the law with less contempt than spitting at it. There's a reason for everything we're not bound by this but there was a thought process that went into it. Quietly in your apartment seeking every avenue of making Jehovah more happy is not virtue signaling in outward displays of rule following like the pharisees or thinking it is somehow worth an octilionth as much as the ransom

No offence taken, not by me anyway, because I didn't write those inspired words, nor did I suffer for you on the martyr stake; so I take your view towards law, to the extent that I understand it correctly, as being, or your wanting it to be, at the 'pre-fulfillment' stage, even if only theoretical or at an experimental level, and that state of affairs is certainly a requisite stage, for no one can appreciate or long for that for which he finds no need - that much is clear. Mat 5:17-20

After having a discussion with content similar to this with a couple of elders at one point, one of them, at it dawning on him what I was saying, and what it might do to his hard earned righteousness, blurted out in flabbergasted indignation that then 'anybody,' in to them cursed 'Christendom,' might get saved - the sheer indignity of which he just could not countenance; how sad I thought.

What, then, is the case? If some - actually the vast majority of 'Christendoms' Christians - are hypocritically availing themselves of God's Way and Means of salvation, is He therefore going to abolish 'righteousness by faith in Christ' in order to please those stumbling over the Stone of stumbling? Never may that happen! - and I am not saying you are, but that is the reality of the situation.

Your instincts regarding 'soul salvation protestants' are probably right, at least as far as the hard core trinitarian mob is concerned, because their 'Savior' had to fake his death for them, being 'very God' and all that, and now the existence augmented God-man to boot.

 

[The God Pill]

No offence taken, not by me anyway, because I didn't write those inspired words, nor did I suffer for you on the martyr stake; so I take your view towards law, to the extent that I understand it correctly, as being, or your wanting it to be, at the 'pre-fulfillment' stage, even if only theoretical or at an experimental level, and that state of affairs is certainly a requisite stage, for no one can appreciate or long for that for which he finds no need - that much is clear. Mat 5:17-20

After having a discussion with content similar to this with a couple of elders at one point, one of them, at it dawning on him what I was saying, and what it might do to his hard earned righteousness, blurted out in flabbergasted indignation that then 'anybody,' in to them cursed 'Christendom,' might get saved - the sheer indignity of which he just could not countenance; how sad I thought.

What, then, is the case? If some - actually the vast majority of 'Christendoms' Christians - are hypocritically availing themselves of God's Way and Means of salvation, is He therefore going to abolish 'righteousness by faith in Christ' in order to please those stumbling over the Stone of stumbling? Never may that happen! - and I am not saying you are, but that is the reality of the situation.

Your instincts regarding 'soul salvation protestants' are probably right, at least as far as the hard core trinitarian mob is concerned, because their 'Savior' had to fake his death for them, being 'very God' and all that, and now the existence augmented God-man to boot.

I don't remember where but I remember reading in our publications or hearing in a talk the main theme of Christendom is salvation while in the truth it's the kingdom and issue of sovereignty. I haven't altered my behavior to conform to even one law that all of us JW's weren't already following yet haven't placed under a heavier yoke. What I don't follow is if Michael/Jesus were not only the mediator but the Prince of Daniel's people in the past why it would be disrespectful to him or the ransom to so much as recall or know these particularly if one is not associating it with salvation or social status. The way people react instantaneously to the 613 is like thry think the devil wrote it or something. The second and third paragraphs of your last post were a little hard to follow but if I understand it right it's still all about the salvation and self righteousess angle. Without faith it is impossible to please God yes.

Take for example in Deuteronomy where it says

11 “You must not wear mixed stuff of wool and linen together.

Seems kind of arbitrary right back then it's unlikely they could have understood why they were told that but now we know

Linens frequency is 5,000. Wool is also 5,000, but when mixed together with linen, the frequencies cancel each other out and fall to zero. Even wearing a wool sweater on top of a linen outfit in a study collapsed the electrical field. The reason for this could be that the energy field of wool flows from left to right, while that of linen flows in the opposite direction, from right to left.

Looking into the logic bears fruit.

 

[Posstot]

I don't remember where but I remember reading in our publications or hearing in a talk the main theme of Christendom is salvation while in the truth it's the kingdom and issue of sovereignty. I haven't altered my behavior to conform to even one law that all of us JW's weren't already following yet haven't placed under a heavier yoke. What I don't follow is if Michael/Jesus were not only the mediator but the Prince of Daniel's people in the past why it would be disrespectful to him or the ransom to so much as recall or know these particularly if one is not associating it with salvation or social status. The way people react instantaneously to the 613 is like thry think the devil wrote it or something. The second and third paragraphs of your last post were a little hard to follow but if I understand it right it's still all about the salvation and self righteousess angle. Without faith it is impossible to please God yes.

Take for example in Deuteronomy where it says

11 “You must not wear mixed stuff of wool and linen together.

Seems kind of arbitrary right back then it's unlikely they could have understood why they were told that but now we know

Linens frequency is 5,000. Wool is also 5,000, but when mixed together with linen, the frequencies cancel each other out and fall to zero. Even wearing a wool sweater on top of a linen outfit in a study collapsed the electrical field. The reason for this could be that the energy field of wool flows from left to right, while that of linen flows in the opposite direction, from right to left.

Looking into the logic bears fruit.

The problem with the law is that it does not adhere to faith, but he 'that keeps it will live by means of it,' whereas righteousness - a righteous standing with Jehovah - derives from faith, and those who adhere to faith are the ones who are sons of Abraham, who had no law to follow, no 'dedication' to live up to, but believed God's promise and thereby gained His approval and salvation. Ga 3:7,12

Studying the law is fine, but it is only a few paragraphs, whereas there are about 1500 pages of prophecy and NT reality to learn about Jehovah and His ways, why not study them?

 

[The God Pill]

Sure one can memorize the law in hours, or days if one is busy it's much easier than people make it out to be and certainly the prophets is more profitable but tell me if I'm wrong in saying all scripture is inspired and beneficial. I've binge read the minor prophets as often as five times a year since I read Jehovah has Become King five years ago I can't pretend I or others have the level of understanding we'll have post fulfillment or that it's quite as ingrained as Robert but it's been at the expense of time I could've otherwise read the gospels more often.

Another thing to bear in mind is that many bibles are based on manuscript traditions that were modified every now and then in the text when parts of scripture made rabbis uncomfortable a couple months back I watched a few hour + long videos on the Septuagint version of Job and how it differs from the Masoretic and it was quite heavily changed in the masoretic all we know of job is he's a rich guy that worships God in the Septuagint he's king of the Edomites and he's doing things we would associate with the law and priesthood long before the Exodus. However much weight or lack of it one wishes to assign to Jubilees and Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs they likewise show elements of it being observed by people before Moses.

I'd certainly agree a Christian's yoke is much lighter and that every regulation the Israelites were given was a natural extension in the peoples specific circumstances of the greatest two commandments.

13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14 For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.

The positive examples in Genesis didn't have the law as far as we know but they still out of instinct did some things of the law. The law covenant was also a contract the Israelites entered into with privileges and obligations for the parties back in the Garden of Eden it was simply manifest love via obedience by simply not eating of the fruit. Does that mean Adam or Eve could just kill one another with no consequences but in there perfect state obviously such a wicked inclination would never arise as a thought. The more the inner character of a population errodes the more morality is formalized written codes emerge and grow bigger and bigger ethics becomes a larger part of social discourse outside the family with varying schools of human reasoning.

"When the Way is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos."

I never disagreed that associating salvation or status in any way to the law would be a step backward the Israelites shouldn't have needed to receive a written code in the first place it was a symptom of decline in comparison to there ancestors that were closer to perfection. No one's disputing that our predecessors the first century Christians were more righteous than there contemporaries as any spiritual Jew with a circumcised heart would be. Because a non Christian gentile carrying out righteousess earnestly is operating somewhere above ritual and a Christian is following Christ the way the truth and the life.

James 21:9 You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected,

I'm making no association with the law in quoting James just saying faith is not a license to sin and do whatever and be lazy when it comes to the ministry etc when we're perfect morality will be as straightforward to us as breathing.

 

[Posstot]

Sure one can memorize the law in hours, or days if one is busy it's much easier than people make it out to be and certainly the prophets is more profitable but tell me if I'm wrong in saying all scripture is inspired and beneficial. I've binge read the minor prophets as often as five times a year since I read Jehovah has Become King five years ago I can't pretend I or others have the level of understanding we'll have post fulfillment or that it's quite as ingrained as Robert but it's been at the expense of time I could've otherwise read the gospels more often.

Another thing to bear in mind is that many bibles are based on manuscript traditions that were modified every now and then in the text when parts of scripture made rabbis uncomfortable a couple months back I watched a few hour + long videos on the Septuagint version of Job and how it differs from the Masoretic and it was quite heavily changed in the masoretic all we know of job is he's a rich guy that worships God in the Septuagint he's king of the Edomites and he's doing things we would associate with the law and priesthood long before the Exodus. However much weight or lack of it one wishes to assign to Jubilees and Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs they likewise show elements of it being observed by people before Moses.

I'd certainly agree a Christian's yoke is much lighter and that every regulation the Israelites were given was a natural extension in the peoples specific circumstances of the greatest two commandments.

13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14 For whenever people of the nations that do not have law do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them and, between their own thoughts, they are being accused or even excused.

The positive examples in Genesis didn't have the law as far as we know but they still out of instinct did some things of the law. The law covenant was also a contract the Israelites entered into with privileges and obligations for the parties back in the Garden of Eden it was simply manifest love via obedience by simply not eating of the fruit. Does that mean Adam or Eve could just kill one another with no consequences but in there perfect state obviously such a wicked inclination would never arise as a thought. The more the inner character of a population errodes the more morality is formalized written codes emerge and grow bigger and bigger ethics becomes a larger part of social discourse outside the family with varying schools of human reasoning.

"When the Way is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos."

I never disagreed that associating salvation or status in any way to the law would be a step backward the Israelites shouldn't have needed to receive a written code in the first place it was a symptom of decline in comparison to there ancestors that were closer to perfection. No one's disputing that our predecessors the first century Christians were more righteous than there contemporaries as any spiritual Jew with a circumcised heart would be. Because a non Christian gentile carrying out righteousess earnestly is operating somewhere above ritual and a Christian is following Christ the way the truth and the life.

James 21:9 You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder. 20 But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? 21 Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 You behold that [his] faith worked along with his works and by [his] works [his] faith was perfected,

I'm making no association with the law in quoting James just saying faith is not a license to sin and do whatever and be lazy when it comes to the ministry etc when we're perfect morality will be as straightforward to us as breathing.

You show a good grasp of this much neglected, but central aspect of what Christianity is all about, with some profound insights into how the externalization of divine precepts - its crystallization into law - while ostensibly leading to an environment of institutionalized civility beneficial to society, also provides a covering structure, where one's motivation is obscured by conventions and tokens of love of neighbor that may not come from the heart, because law, by its nature, cares not a whit about motivation of the heart, which is why it is so treasured by Pharisees and Jehovah alike, although for different reasons, and not that He is one of them, as they vainly imagine Him to be, but that law is an excellent diagnostic device for what goes on in the human heart, which obviously only He can infallibly read.

Apart from the misuse of law for the purpose of self righteousness, there is also the unlawful use of it now to deprive people of their God given right to bodily integrity, by insidiously seeking to bind their conscience under pretense of the 'greater good' for society, which surprisingly even 'God's spirit directed organization' fell victim to - what crime against humanity was not the result of people just 'following orders,' just bowing down to the law as their justifier and idol?

I wish more people would become aware of this exciter of sinful passions that acts as master over a man as long as he lives; hence our need for being made dead to the law through Christ's death on our behalf. Ro 7:1,4,5

 

[Posstot]

The WT belittles 'personal salvation' as 'Christendom's' misreading of what Christianity is all about, while substituting their invisible 1914 kingdom and the issue of God's sovereignty as its main theme; however, I see God's righteousness as the central question that is in contention and needs to be settled once and for all.

Because righteousness, unlike law, involves a relational and situational dynamic between two parties, as in our case principally between God and an individual - but also between two individuals - it cannot be based on objective, measurable standards of performance, but needs to rest on good will, trust, and acting in good faith between the parties, which is not open to outside scrutiny and judgment; no one can accuse or exonerate God on behalf of another for his 'bad fortune' or 'privilege,' as lefties are won't to do.

By contrast, under law all is out in the open, 'transparent,' as they say, complete with infinitely detailed performance criteria and compliance scores for everyone to see and judge; but how to overcome this seeming handicap of faith based righteousness, which lacks this objectivity and visibility?

Faith - which can only be had in people, as opposed to objects, no matter how reliable and trustworthy they are - is basically the will to impute good motives to the one believed; hence, it is a moral quality, reflective of the inner person exercising it, not just a function of cognition and rationality, a computation of the odds as to whether someone warrants this trust; however, this opens the door to vulnerability and abuse by those seeking to take advantage of those walking by faith, hence the need for an impartial Guarantor of justice who can read hearts.

Jehovah fully trusted His heavenly sons, but some let Him down to the point of becoming complicit in human genocide, just as people today are, who still have the chance to repent for now.