If you were shocked, imagine how it will be for them...

Part Two of Watchtower Review

Germany as KOTN: I was given that talk from sure it was the Revelation book over 30yr bk: The School overseer berated me for giving the incorrect id of KOTN! The audience agreed with him...I phoned him immediately after with the paragraph I was assigned....'I'm flying with my family to Tenerif can't talk' He said...I replied..'You aint goin no where until you reach for the book and read it's Paragraph back to me or I'm comin round!'....He apologised and promised when he came back he would announce it!...He never did and I never mentioned it till now.
 
Certainly we all want to help our Brothers and Sisters to find the “truth” but I also have come to the conclusion that it is nigh on impossible to talk to anyone who is a witness about such things that we have come to understand. Even those that you think may be receptive often just stare back like the proverbial deer in the headlights and look at you as if you are speaking a foreign language. “Where does it say that in the publications” was a typical response. I guess I was like it at one time too, but being conditioned not to think or reason on what is being said, and to follow the FDS whatever their current teachings are, is the easiest path to follow. The WT study, despite being encouraged to comment, limits comments to what is in the article and there is no freedom to express anything else other than what is printed. But to be honest many seem to like it that way. As long as the WT is underlined and you can raise your hand for the obligatory comment, you are safe. All I can try to do is encourage and pray that Jehovah will steer them in the right direction as he surely will do. I somehow feel that Jehovah is training those of us who have been privileged to “see the light” as it were, so we can help others to weather the inevitable storms that will come. Not that we are anything special but Jehovah always provides what is needed even if we don’t realize it at the time. I know many sincere witnesses who love Jehovah and are just caught up in the conditioning of the WT but that may not always be the case as events progress and help is needed for them to adjust their viewpoint and come out of the control that pervades their thinking. Of course some may not do that but only Jehovah knows the heart so I try to keep that in mind as try my best to be guided by Jehovah in the way he wants me to go and what he wants me to do.
Apologies if what I say is kind of repeating what has been mooted before.

Jeremiah5:​

23 But this very people has come to have a stubborn and rebellious heart; they have turned aside and keep walking in their course.+ 24 But they have not said in their heart: “Let us, now, fear Jehovah our God,+ the One who is giving the downpour and the autumn rain and the spring rain in its season,+ the One who guards even the prescribed weeks of the harvest for us.”+
29 “Should I not hold an accounting because of these very things,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “or on a nation that is like this should not my soul avenge itself?+ 30 An astonishing situation, even a horrible thing, has been brought to be* in the land:+ 31 The prophets themselves actually prophesy in falsehood;+ and as for the priests, they go subduing according to their powers.*+ And my own people have loved [it] that way;+ and what will YOU men do in the finale of it?”+ > https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/jeremiah/5/
 

Romans13:​

11 [Do] this, too, because YOU people know the season,* that it is already the hour for YOU to awake+ from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers.+ 12 The night is well along; the day+ has drawn near. Let us therefore put off the works belonging to darkness+ and let us put on the weapons+ of the light.​

Hebrews 3:13

13 but keep on exhortinga one another each day, as long as it may be called “Today,”b for fear any one of YOU should become hardened by the deceptivec power* of sin.
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Question: I am trying to figure out when in the line of events the WT will fall. So you think it will be during the great tribulation? What kind of bad "life-saving advice" do you think that they'll give?
Hi StopTheInsanity, I think we are all wondering exactly how it will play out. I must admit I have no real insight but I’m often tempted to speculate and usually to my own embarrassment. I am guessing when the financial system falls apart, money will be worthless and so you would think that real estate would have some value. I would guess that would be wrong because when the 8th King does arise in the midst of financial devastation, the new government will likely nationalize all real estate and businesses. There is a historical precedent for that. What would the Watchtower be worth if money has no value and real estate has no value? Nada.

Then, I imagine that the 8th King will setup the digital currency and give a subsistence allowance to people and APPROVED organizations. I don’t think the Watchtower will qualify as approved and very likely because they don’t accept homosexuality or some other nonsense that globalists push. To me this makes sense and fits with the prophecy of the voice of the anointed chirping from the dust.

Isaiah 29:1-13: “Woe to Arʹi·el, Arʹi·el, the city where David encamped! Continue year after year; Let the cycle of festivals continue. But I will bring distress on Arʹi·el, And there will be mourning and lamentation, And she will become to me like an altar hearth of God. I will encamp on all sides against you, And I will besiege you with a palisade And raise up siegeworks against you. You will be brought low; From the ground you will speak, And what you say will be muffled by dust. Your voice will come from the ground Like the voice of a spirit medium, And your words will chirp from the dust. The crowd of your enemies will be like fine powder, The crowd of the tyrants just like the blowing chaff. And it will happen in an instant, suddenly. Jehovah of armies will give you his attention With thunder and earthquake and a great noise, With storm wind and tempest and the flames of a consuming fire.” Then the crowd of all the nations waging war against Arʹi·el—All those waging war against her, The siege towers against her, And those bringing distress on her—Will become like a dream, a vision of the night. Yes, it will be just as when someone hungry dreams that he is eating, But he wakes up hungry, And as when someone thirsty dreams that he is drinking, But he wakes up tired and thirsty. So it will happen with the crowd of all the nations That wage war against Mount Zion. Be stunned and amazed; Blind yourselves and be blinded. They are drunk, but not with wine; They are staggering, but not from alcohol. For Jehovah has poured a spirit of deep sleep on you; He has closed your eyes, the prophets, And he has covered your heads, the visionaries. Every vision becomes for you like the words of a sealed book. When they give it to someone who can read, saying: “Read this out loud, please,” he will say: “I cannot, for it is sealed up.” And when they give the book to someone who cannot read, saying: “Read this, please,” he will say: “I cannot read at all.” Jehovah says: “This people approach me with their mouth And they honor me with their lips, But their heart is far removed from me; And their fear of me is based on commands of men that they have been taught.”

That being said when I first heard someone express the thought that the org could in the future encourage brothers and sisters to actually submit to the mark of the beast, I couldn’t accept that. But now I think it is possible that when the dust settles there will still be some who try to gain control over the brothers and sisters and I also think it is possible that they will tell them to obey the superior authorities even if it means taking the mark of the beast. After all they successfully convinced many brothers and sisters to willing take part in a medical experiment that has put their lives and health at risk. They still have not apologized for it and it is more than obvious that many have died and even more are injured.
 
Hi StopTheInsanity, I think we are all wondering exactly how it will play out. I must admit I have no real insight but I’m often tempted to speculate and usually to my own embarrassment. I am guessing when the financial system falls apart, money will be worthless and so you would think that real estate would have some value. I would guess that would be wrong because when the 8th King does arise in the midst of financial devastation, the new government will likely nationalize all real estate and businesses. There is a historical precedent for that. What would the Watchtower be worth if money has no value and real estate has no value? Nada.

Then, I imagine that the 8th King will setup the digital currency and give a subsistence allowance to people and APPROVED organizations. I don’t think the Watchtower will qualify as approved and very likely because they don’t accept homosexuality or some other nonsense that globalists push. To me this makes sense and fits with the prophecy of the voice of the anointed chirping from the dust.

Isaiah 29:1-13: “Woe to Arʹi·el, Arʹi·el, the city where David encamped! Continue year after year; Let the cycle of festivals continue. But I will bring distress on Arʹi·el, And there will be mourning and lamentation, And she will become to me like an altar hearth of God. I will encamp on all sides against you, And I will besiege you with a palisade And raise up siegeworks against you. You will be brought low; From the ground you will speak, And what you say will be muffled by dust. Your voice will come from the ground Like the voice of a spirit medium, And your words will chirp from the dust. The crowd of your enemies will be like fine powder, The crowd of the tyrants just like the blowing chaff. And it will happen in an instant, suddenly. Jehovah of armies will give you his attention With thunder and earthquake and a great noise, With storm wind and tempest and the flames of a consuming fire.” Then the crowd of all the nations waging war against Arʹi·el—All those waging war against her, The siege towers against her, And those bringing distress on her—Will become like a dream, a vision of the night. Yes, it will be just as when someone hungry dreams that he is eating, But he wakes up hungry, And as when someone thirsty dreams that he is drinking, But he wakes up tired and thirsty. So it will happen with the crowd of all the nations That wage war against Mount Zion. Be stunned and amazed; Blind yourselves and be blinded. They are drunk, but not with wine; They are staggering, but not from alcohol. For Jehovah has poured a spirit of deep sleep on you; He has closed your eyes, the prophets, And he has covered your heads, the visionaries. Every vision becomes for you like the words of a sealed book. When they give it to someone who can read, saying: “Read this out loud, please,” he will say: “I cannot, for it is sealed up.” And when they give the book to someone who cannot read, saying: “Read this, please,” he will say: “I cannot read at all.” Jehovah says: “This people approach me with their mouth And they honor me with their lips, But their heart is far removed from me; And their fear of me is based on commands of men that they have been taught.”

That being said when I first heard someone express the thought that the org could in the future encourage brothers and sisters to actually submit to the mark of the beast, I couldn’t accept that. But now I think it is possible that when the dust settles there will still be some who try to gain control over the brothers and sisters and I also think it is possible that they will tell them to obey the superior authorities even if it means taking the mark of the beast. After all they successfully convinced many brothers and sisters to willing take part in a medical experiment that has put their lives and health at risk. They still have not apologized for it and it is more than obvious that many have died and even more are injured.
Beautiful reply, Susan, thank you so much for that. That was exactly what I was looking for. True, we can't know until it actually happens, but Jehovah gave us prophecy for a reason and wants us to try and understand it to be prepared for what's ahead.

I am rereading Robert's book for the third time taking extensive notes this time and really looking up the scriptures in-depth. I am finding nuggets I didn't find the last two times.

For example, he talked about how the King of the North "went back again" (Daniel 11:29) by going back to infiltration methods to "give attention to those leaving the covenant". I've suspected that while we may have been infiltrated for awhile, it really seems it took a foothold in the 1950's after WWII because the Witnesses were so faithful during the Nazi camps they knew they had to destroy from within by different methods. I just KNEW this had to be in the scriptures and BAM! There is was and Robert connected the dots.

Also, he talked about how the "throne of Satan" was mentioned in Revelation 2:13 as being inside of the congregation and Robert tied it into the infiltration by the London-based Freemason/Theosopy movement and Zionism. Have you seen the video on JW.org about Zionist Jared Kirschner buying the NY headquarters buildings? Creeped me out.

And "those acting wickedly against the covenant (anointed at Bethel by joining the UN) he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. The "smooth words" being that the UN's 2030 stated goals sound very similar to the Kingdom goals and the transhumansim goals sound very similar to the things that ONLY Jesus can do by healing and resurrecting people so its the antiChrist.

I agree that the WT will probably tell us to take the mark and cite Romans 13 or whatever other gibberish they'll come up with.

I base this on a few things:

1) the 2023 drama is encouraging "obedience" by going into refugee camps (and who set these up???) during civil unrest even if it means you lose your home. The World Economic Forum has said "It's the year 2030: You will own nothing and you will love it". The Princess of Netherlands or Denmark I don't remember which, said in a speech "Why do you want to own anything when you can rent it?" And Canada came up with a Biodigital Convergence document showing how we will live in the "internet of things" and "the internet of bodies" where all things are connected to the internet including out bodies in smart cities and apartments that we don't own. There is one called NEOM being built in Saudi Arabia and Bill Gates is building one in Arizona and there are several more.

2) Mormons have set up a Transhumanism Association promoting transhumanism as the means that God will set up his Kingdom and fulfill his prophecies about healing:


and here's their official website:

https://transfigurism.org/mormon-transhumanist-affirmation

I have a friend who wrote the branch asking their view on this and on transhumanism (the Catholics actually held a conference about transhumanism, too, so it WILL be pushed by religion as the "solution") and they said that transhumanism was not totally in conflict with the Bible and yes, only the Kingdom can solve mankind's problems. I was shocked. So yes, there are some back in Bethel who are not against it. In fact, several Bethelites are total Trekkies (they love Star Trek) so I can totally see them thinking like that and promoting us getting the mark.

3) During COVID, the WT sounded exactly like the WHO (their biggest financial donor was Bill Gates) and set up vaccination centers and their GB updates sounded exactly like paid infommercials. It sounds like they are still part of the UN especially since they were able to get vaccines into countries where they were hard to come by. And they used UN planes to fly supplies to the brothers and sisters in the Congo and had representatives attend UN conferences. So it appears that the infiltrator's goal is to "deliver the goods" to the UN, "us" being the goods, during the time of the end and they are grooming us to be good little NWO citizens. I think that's why they kept us on Zoom for so long and are still having CO's wear masks at meetings and out in service.

All that said, do you think that this advice will come before their "fall" and then what's going to happen after the "fall"? To them and to us?

And should we obey or disobey this advice to go to camps (if that's the advice) with the understanding the Jehovah will protect his people even there and foil their plans or do we disobey and "flee to the mountains"?

Will the true anointed be betrayed by the fake ones and be imprisoned/in camps as well and that's where they "preach in sack cloth" and then are killed?

Is that also when the brothers and sisters are stumbled and betray one another? Do you think WT will be exposed in its complicity with the UN?

So it sounds like you described phase 1. What's going to happen then after that in Phase 2 and 3?

Just trying to tie all these prophecies together. When do you think the WW3 will be? The cry for peach and security?
 
Beautiful reply, Susan, thank you so much for that. That was exactly what I was looking for. True, we can't know until it actually happens, but Jehovah gave us prophecy for a reason and wants us to try and understand it to be prepared for what's ahead.

I am rereading Robert's book for the third time taking extensive notes this time and really looking up the scriptures in-depth. I am finding nuggets I didn't find the last two times.

For example, he talked about how the King of the North "went back again" (Daniel 11:29) by going back to infiltration methods to "give attention to those leaving the covenant". I've suspected that while we may have been infiltrated for awhile, it really seems it took a foothold in the 1950's after WWII because the Witnesses were so faithful during the Nazi camps they knew they had to destroy from within by different methods. I just KNEW this had to be in the scriptures and BAM! There is was and Robert connected the dots.

Also, he talked about how the "throne of Satan" was mentioned in Revelation 2:13 as being inside of the congregation and Robert tied it into the infiltration by the London-based Freemason/Theosopy movement and Zionism. Have you seen the video on JW.org about Zionist Jared Kirschner buying the NY headquarters buildings? Creeped me out.

And "those acting wickedly against the covenant (anointed at Bethel by joining the UN) he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words. The "smooth words" being that the UN's 2030 stated goals sound very similar to the Kingdom goals and the transhumansim goals sound very similar to the things that ONLY Jesus can do by healing and resurrecting people so its the antiChrist.

I agree that the WT will probably tell us to take the mark and cite Romans 13 or whatever other gibberish they'll come up with.

I base this on a few things:

1) the 2023 drama is encouraging "obedience" by going into refugee camps (and who set these up???) during civil unrest even if it means you lose your home. The World Economic Forum has said "It's the year 2030: You will own nothing and you will love it". The Princess of Netherlands or Denmark I don't remember which, said in a speech "Why do you want to own anything when you can rent it?" And Canada came up with a Biodigital Convergence document showing how we will live in the "internet of things" and "the internet of bodies" where all things are connected to the internet including out bodies in smart cities and apartments that we don't own. There is one called NEOM being built in Saudi Arabia and Bill Gates is building one in Arizona and there are several more.

2) Mormons have set up a Transhumanism Association promoting transhumanism as the means that God will set up his Kingdom and fulfill his prophecies about healing:


and here's their official website:

https://transfigurism.org/mormon-transhumanist-affirmation

I have a friend who wrote the branch asking their view on this and on transhumanism (the Catholics actually held a conference about transhumanism, too, so it WILL be pushed by religion as the "solution") and they said that transhumanism was not totally in conflict with the Bible and yes, only the Kingdom can solve mankind's problems. I was shocked. So yes, there are some back in Bethel who are not against it. In fact, several Bethelites are total Trekkies (they love Star Trek) so I can totally see them thinking like that and promoting us getting the mark.

3) During COVID, the WT sounded exactly like the WHO (their biggest financial donor was Bill Gates) and set up vaccination centers and their GB updates sounded exactly like paid infommercials. It sounds like they are still part of the UN especially since they were able to get vaccines into countries where they were hard to come by. And they used UN planes to fly supplies to the brothers and sisters in the Congo and had representatives attend UN conferences. So it appears that the infiltrator's goal is to "deliver the goods" to the UN, "us" being the goods, during the time of the end and they are grooming us to be good little NWO citizens. I think that's why they kept us on Zoom for so long and are still having CO's wear masks at meetings and out in service.

All that said, do you think that this advice will come before their "fall" and then what's going to happen after the "fall"? To them and to us?

And should we obey or disobey this advice to go to camps (if that's the advice) with the understanding the Jehovah will protect his people even there and foil their plans or do we disobey and "flee to the mountains"?

Will the true anointed be betrayed by the fake ones and be imprisoned/in camps as well and that's where they "preach in sack cloth" and then are killed?

Is that also when the brothers and sisters are stumbled and betray one another? Do you think WT will be exposed in its complicity with the UN?

So it sounds like you described phase 1. What's going to happen then after that in Phase 2 and 3?

Just trying to tie all these prophecies together. When do you think the WW3 will be? The cry for peach and security?
Many questions to consider but great things to ponder. I have to run to work but don’t forget that God’s Kingdom will be in place at the same time that the 8th King comes to power and so it will be a clear choice. Once the anointed are disciplined and scattered, they will then be gathered back to Jehovah and sealed and we will KNOW that. Jehovah will make a way for us to survive without compromising with the 8th King.
 
Hi StopTheInsanity, I think we are all wondering exactly how it will play out. I must admit I have no real insight but I’m often tempted to speculate and usually to my own embarrassment. I am guessing when the financial system falls apart, money will be worthless and so you would think that real estate would have some value. I would guess that would be wrong because when the 8th King does arise in the midst of financial devastation, the new government will likely nationalize all real estate and businesses. There is a historical precedent for that. What would the Watchtower be worth if money has no value and real estate has no value? Nada.

Then, I imagine that the 8th King will setup the digital currency and give a subsistence allowance to people and APPROVED organizations. I don’t think the Watchtower will qualify as approved and very likely because they don’t accept homosexuality or some other nonsense that globalists push. To me this makes sense and fits with the prophecy of the voice of the anointed chirping from the dust.

Isaiah 29:1-13: “Woe to Arʹi·el, Arʹi·el, the city where David encamped! Continue year after year; Let the cycle of festivals continue. But I will bring distress on Arʹi·el, And there will be mourning and lamentation, And she will become to me like an altar hearth of God. I will encamp on all sides against you, And I will besiege you with a palisade And raise up siegeworks against you. You will be brought low; From the ground you will speak, And what you say will be muffled by dust. Your voice will come from the ground Like the voice of a spirit medium, And your words will chirp from the dust. The crowd of your enemies will be like fine powder, The crowd of the tyrants just like the blowing chaff. And it will happen in an instant, suddenly. Jehovah of armies will give you his attention With thunder and earthquake and a great noise, With storm wind and tempest and the flames of a consuming fire.” Then the crowd of all the nations waging war against Arʹi·el—All those waging war against her, The siege towers against her, And those bringing distress on her—Will become like a dream, a vision of the night. Yes, it will be just as when someone hungry dreams that he is eating, But he wakes up hungry, And as when someone thirsty dreams that he is drinking, But he wakes up tired and thirsty. So it will happen with the crowd of all the nations That wage war against Mount Zion. Be stunned and amazed; Blind yourselves and be blinded. They are drunk, but not with wine; They are staggering, but not from alcohol. For Jehovah has poured a spirit of deep sleep on you; He has closed your eyes, the prophets, And he has covered your heads, the visionaries. Every vision becomes for you like the words of a sealed book. When they give it to someone who can read, saying: “Read this out loud, please,” he will say: “I cannot, for it is sealed up.” And when they give the book to someone who cannot read, saying: “Read this, please,” he will say: “I cannot read at all.” Jehovah says: “This people approach me with their mouth And they honor me with their lips, But their heart is far removed from me; And their fear of me is based on commands of men that they have been taught.”

That being said when I first heard someone express the thought that the org could in the future encourage brothers and sisters to actually submit to the mark of the beast, I couldn’t accept that. But now I think it is possible that when the dust settles there will still be some who try to gain control over the brothers and sisters and I also think it is possible that they will tell them to obey the superior authorities even if it means taking the mark of the beast. After all they successfully convinced many brothers and sisters to willing take part in a medical experiment that has put their lives and health at risk. They still have not apologized for it and it is more than obvious that many have died and even more are injured.
It is certain that the watchtower will advise its people to their harm, just as you relate with their subservience to the vaccination and 1914 and so on. The GB and their advisors certainly already feed off the brethren’s hard work and finances - all to their detriment. Why should this stop? One thing about the scripture in Isaiah you quote is that for Jehovah’s denunciation to be visible and consequential to all, it must be at a time prior to that scripture, so that the scripture itself is fulfilled. Is Isaiah 29 a fulfilment, or a result its devastation? It seems to be what watchtower is to become and perhaps its judgement at a time when all can appreciate the significance of what Isaiah 29 speaks of. I suppose a lot of it depends on communication. Everyone has to be aware of its significance world wide. Something has to raise the issue of watchtower to global significance in every aspect of prophesy.
 
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Having read the article I find it so superficial and demeaning to the intelligence that it will pass right over the heads of the congregation. It hardly raises a biblical question. Compare it to the articles that Robert has written on the same subject numerous times and you can see how the facts, plainly put, (and actually, powerfully written with no soppy “loving directional ” quotes) alert the reader to issues that require an honest self appraisal. Even less, there is no inference to depend on the author of the essay to steer your way, but the positive urge to fend for yourself before it is too late. What the watchtower article puts forward is little more than a beginners psychology lesson in seeking approval and dominance from a willing participant in self delusion. The “agreement with the grave”. It is this delusion that is implanted in all watchtower literature that will provide the shock for the congregation rather than articles such as the one you quote. The damage has already been accomplished and there is no escape now from the outcome for those remaining in the organisation. Their reaction will be just as it is described in the bible. What we can do is to resolve to make ourselves available to our brothers and sisters and to be prepared to go to their rescue. We can do this in many ways from the spiritual through to the necessities of life on their behalf. We have been given the figurative Talent of silver to invest in them, so it is not so much about what shock and awe our brethren will be feeling at being exposed to the lie, but rather what will WE do to help them at that time. You don’t go to the victim of car crash to ask them how they feel about their driving. You go to provide their means of life if you can. The watchtower article is written more for us than it is for them, if we choose to read between the lines.
It's true. I never said that the article itself will provoke that, but that all the lies they have been told is what will provoke their shock and terrible reaction when everything they are expecting does not happen. That will be very sad for them and it's true. We will help them if we can when everything crashes down. What we know will help a lot in those times and because of love and responsibility we will help them if we can in those times. That would be truly beautiful if you think about it. Helping a lot of brothers to get out of the lies they have been led to believe in would be great. Hehe :)
 
Having read the article I find it so superficial and demeaning to the intelligence that it will pass right over the heads of the congregation. It hardly raises a biblical question. Compare it to the articles that Robert has written on the same subject numerous times and you can see how the facts, plainly put, (and actually, powerfully written with no soppy “loving directional ” quotes) alert the reader to issues that require an honest self appraisal. Even less, there is no inference to depend on the author of the essay to steer your way, but the positive urge to fend for yourself before it is too late. What the watchtower article puts forward is little more than a beginners psychology lesson in seeking approval and dominance from a willing participant in self delusion. The “agreement with the grave”. It is this delusion that is implanted in all watchtower literature that will provide the shock for the congregation rather than articles such as the one you quote. The damage has already been accomplished and there is no escape now from the outcome for those remaining in the organisation. Their reaction will be just as it is described in the bible. What we can do is to resolve to make ourselves available to our brothers and sisters and to be prepared to go to their rescue. We can do this in many ways from the spiritual through to the necessities of life on their behalf. We have been given the figurative Talent of silver to invest in them, so it is not so much about what shock and awe our brethren will be feeling at being exposed to the lie, but rather what will WE do to help them at that time. You don’t go to the victim of car crash to ask them how they feel about their driving. You go to provide their means of life if you can. The watchtower article is written more for us than it is for them, if we choose to read between the lines.

Barnaby said "Having read the article I find it so superficial and demeaning to the intelligence that it will pass right over the heads of the congregation.

According to Luke chapter 21 no-one's excluded...​

Luke21​

35 as a snare.+ For it will come in upon all those dwelling upon the face of all the earth.​

1 Thessalonians 5:2

2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s* daya is coming exactly as a thief in the night.b

2 Peter 3:10

10 Yet Jehovah’s* daya will come as a thief,b in which the heavens will pass awayc with a hissing noise,d but the elements* being intensely hot will be dissolved,*e and earthf and the works in it will be discovered.*
 
It's true. I never said that the article itself will provoke that, but that all the lies they have been told is what will provoke their shock and terrible reaction when everything they are expecting does not happen. That will be very sad for them and it's true. We will help them if we can when everything crashes down. What we know will help a lot in those times and because of love and responsibility we will help them if we can in those times. That would be truly beautiful if you think about it. Helping a lot of brothers to get out of the lies they have been led to believe in would be great. Hehe :)

Luke21 26

while men become faint out of fear+ and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth;*+ for the powers* of the heavens will be shaken. More​

> https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/luke/21/

 
Many questions to consider but great things to ponder. I have to run to work but don’t forget that God’s Kingdom will be in place at the same time that the 8th King comes to power and so it will be a clear choice. Once the anointed are disciplined and scattered, they will then be gathered back to Jehovah and sealed and we will KNOW that. Jehovah will make a way for us to survive without compromising with the 8th King.

Excerpted from - I Will Discipline You to the Proper Degree​

Paul demonstrated this very thing when he commanded the Corinthians to put a brazen fornicator out of the congregation, saying: “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.” Being handed over to Satan meant that Jesus would no longer protect and watch over such a man.

Now, take God’s dealings with the Israelites. He gave them his law. But in time they rebelled. He tried to correct them by sending them his prophets. They refused to listen. God was obligated to punish them by a cruel tyrant. Consider a passage in the 30th chapter of Jeremiah: “‘For I am with you,’ declares Jehovah, ‘to save you. But I will make an extermination among all the nations to which I scattered you; however, you I will not exterminate. I will discipline you to the proper degree, and I will by no means leave you unpunished.’ For this is what Jehovah says: ‘There is no cure for your breakdown. Your wound is incurable. There is no one to plead your cause, no means of healing your ulcer. There is no cure for you. All your passionate lovers have forgotten you. They no longer seek you out. For with the stroke of an enemy I have struck you, with the punishment of someone cruel, because of your great guilt and your many sins.’”Read more> https://e-watchman.com/bethel-will-become-something-uncanny/
 
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It's true. I never said that the article itself will provoke that, but that all the lies they have been told is what will provoke their shock and terrible reaction when everything they are expecting does not happen. That will be very sad for them and it's true. We will help them if we can when everything crashes down. What we know will help a lot in those times and because of love and responsibility we will help them if we can in those times. That would be truly beautiful if you think about it. Helping a lot of brothers to get out of the lies they have been led to believe in would be great. Hehe :)
Yes it would be great to help them get out of the lies. This is what I just got from a sister and to be honest it makes me so sad I love her dearly but don't know how to react:

"The program of the head office representative was beautiful. Don't think about the difficult task, but keep your eye on the new order. We are truly a global nation well nourished by its governance. You will not find that love anywhere in the world. I feel rich to be a citizen of this organization. Things came forward that really formed me and was also understood. Delicious."

What do I say???
 
Question: I am trying to figure out when in the line of events the WT will fall. So you think it will be during the great tribulation? What kind of bad "life-saving advice" do you think that they'll give?

From what I've read in the Revelation--Grand Climax at Hand! book, that we've always believed that WT would be closed down just like Babylon the Great and that the 8th King was the UN that would rule for one hour. The WT has even said in the last few years that they might not always be around and that communication with them might be cut off and to listen to the local elders then. And Bro Herd said not to fret when they are taken up to heaven during the GT since they were old and could do more good for us up in heaven than on earth.

I'm not defending them, just trying to be accurate as to what exactly will shock the organization when the doors shutter. I am interested in hearing how people think this will happen. Scandal? Imprisonment? What?
Excerpt:

“Bethel Will Become Something Uncanny”​

Jesus foretold that Jerusalem will be surrounded with a fence of pointed stakes, a palisade. Of course, his words were literally fulfilled in 70 CE. But the tribulation upon the holy place and that which is symbolized by Jerusalem is to occur during the great tribulation, which is coming upon the whole world. It is during that tribulation when the formerly robust voice of God’s spokesman will be brought low and instead of uttering anything remotely like “good news,” the voice will emanate as if from the grave — requiring the services of a spirit medium to give it voice. Read more> https://e-watchman.com/bethel-will-become-something-uncanny/

How will the end come for the Watchtower?> https://e-watchman.com/how-will-the-end-come-for-the-watchtower/

 
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Yes it would be great to help them get out of the lies. This is what I just got from a sister and to be honest it makes me so sad I love her dearly but don't know how to react:

"The program of the head office representative was beautiful. Don't think about the difficult task, but keep your eye on the new order. We are truly a global nation well nourished by its governance. You will not find that love anywhere in the world. I feel rich to be a citizen of this organization. Things came forward that really formed me and was also understood. Delicious."

What do I say???
I’m not sure what any of us can say. There is no tried and tested formula apart from one that Jesus was a dab hand at using. My understanding is that the impetuous to respond comes from within. The scripture points to this in that Paul planted, Apollus watered but Jehovah makes it grow. We all feel responsible to preach and encourage, but success is usually by chance (for us) to touch upon a subject that “clicks” in their heart. Presumably, this is why the watchtower, cruelly in my opinion, encourages letter writing or personal visits to recently bereaved. They miss the primary issue of separation entirely. A time to speak and a time just to sit and hold the hand of another …. and wait to be asked. Thus it is often the case that choosing the correct time is more important than having the right scripture to hand, if indeed, a scripture is required. Often-times it is we who should be asking the question of them about their belief and offering Satan’s question; “Is that really so?” There is a whole arsenal of weaponry in a question. The bible asks more questions of ourselves that it offers answers. It appears then that we should ask questions of the heart, rather than the mind. If we speak to the brain, the brain responds primarily with “What is the motive behind this question?” Ask of the heart, and it immediately seeks to justify because it itself is treacherous and any response it can give has to be reasoned upon and then justified. This appears to be the methodology that Jesus used often; “Let the one who has not sinned, cast the first stone”. So profound was the timing of that question there was not a single reply, but there was a unanimous reaction from all of them. Of all the myriad of arguments that Jesus could have used and reasoned upon, he chose instead, a statement of fact beyond denial. Jesus’ example may be pointing us to seek that key aspect of humanity within our preaching work. We all have it unfortunately and probably less right to ask it of our companion, but between friends, at least it is a forgivable tactic if appeal is within the bounds of that friendship, and certainly a sting for contemplation in any one.
 
I’m not sure what any of us can say. There is no tried and tested formula apart from one that Jesus was a dab hand at using. My understanding is that the impetuous to respond comes from within. The scripture points to this in that Paul planted, Apollus watered but Jehovah makes it grow. We all feel responsible to preach and encourage, but success is usually by chance (for us) to touch upon a subject that “clicks” in their heart. Presumably, this is why the watchtower, cruelly in my opinion, encourages letter writing or personal visits to recently bereaved. They miss the primary issue of separation entirely. A time to speak and a time just to sit and hold the hand of another …. and wait to be asked. Thus it is often the case that choosing the correct time is more important than having the right scripture to hand, if indeed, a scripture is required. Often-times it is we who should be asking the question of them about their belief and offering Satan’s question; “Is that really so?” There is a whole arsenal of weaponry in a question. The bible asks more questions of ourselves that it offers answers. It appears then that we should ask questions of the heart, rather than the mind. If we speak to the brain, the brain responds primarily with “What is the motive behind this question?” Ask of the heart, and it immediately seeks to justify because it itself is treacherous and any response it can give has to be reasoned upon and then justified. This appears to be the methodology that Jesus used often; “Let the one who has not sinned, cast the first stone”. So profound was the timing of that question there was not a single reply, but there was a unanimous reaction from all of them. Of all the myriad of arguments that Jesus could have used and reasoned upon, he chose instead, a statement of fact beyond denial. Jesus’ example may be pointing us to seek that key aspect of humanity within our preaching work. We all have it unfortunately and probably less right to ask it of our companion, but between friends, at least it is a forgivable tactic if appeal is within the bounds of that friendship, and certainly a sting for contemplation in any one.
Thank you Barnaby for your kind words and support. I did indeed say nothing and only listened; for now I will leave it with Jehovah. There may come a opportunity to carefully say something......I hope
 
Yes it would be great to help them get out of the lies. This is what I just got from a sister and to be honest it makes me so sad I love her dearly but don't know how to react:

"The program of the head office representative was beautiful. Don't think about the difficult task, but keep your eye on the new order. We are truly a global nation well nourished by its governance. You will not find that love anywhere in the world. I feel rich to be a citizen of this organization. Things came forward that really formed me and was also understood. Delicious."

What do I say???
Have you listened to this program that she mentioned?
See what you might be able to agree with her on. Ask her specificly what affected her, what it helped her to understand. And see where things go. Remember, you catch more flies with honey. We don't want to start fights. We want to inform and mostly to save them from being stumbled.
 
Have you listened to this program that she mentioned?
See what you might be able to agree with her on. Ask her specificly what affected her, what it helped her to understand. And see where things go. Remember, you catch more flies with honey. We don't want to start fights. We want to inform and mostly to save them from being stumbled.
good advice. No I have not listened, but I can get here notes. She said they where not alloud to record the speech.,
 
good advice. No I have not listened, but I can get here notes. She said they where not alloud to record the speech.,
Wow, not allowed to record the speech, something hinky about that. The peons aren't smart enough to understand the things the kings discuss I suppose.
I don't recall that being a Bible based procedure. Especially if your giving a speech??
 

Excerpted from - I Will Discipline You to the Proper Degree​

Paul demonstrated this very thing when he commanded the Corinthians to put a brazen fornicator out of the congregation, saying: “hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.” Being handed over to Satan meant that Jesus would no longer protect and watch over such a man.

Now, take God’s dealings with the Israelites. He gave them his law. But in time they rebelled. He tried to correct them by sending them his prophets. They refused to listen. God was obligated to punish them by a cruel tyrant. Consider a passage in the 30th chapter of Jeremiah: “‘For I am with you,’ declares Jehovah, ‘to save you. But I will make an extermination among all the nations to which I scattered you; however, you I will not exterminate. I will discipline you to the proper degree, and I will by no means leave you unpunished.’ For this is what Jehovah says: ‘There is no cure for your breakdown. Your wound is incurable. There is no one to plead your cause, no means of healing your ulcer. There is no cure for you. All your passionate lovers have forgotten you. They no longer seek you out. For with the stroke of an enemy I have struck you, with the punishment of someone cruel, because of your great guilt and your many sins.’”Read more> https://e-watchman.com/bethel-will-become-something-uncanny/
Great reminder. Thank you.
 
Yes it would be great to help them get out of the lies. This is what I just got from a sister and to be honest it makes me so sad I love her dearly but don't know how to react:

"The program of the head office representative was beautiful. Don't think about the difficult task, but keep your eye on the new order. We are truly a global nation well nourished by its governance. You will not find that love anywhere in the world. I feel rich to be a citizen of this organization. Things came forward that really formed me and was also understood. Delicious."

What do I say???
I look at it the same way as I view someone in field service who is convinced of some erroneous religious belief. You will only anger them and turn them away if you confront them. Ignore the confrontational and focus on common ground so that you can continue to be there for them when they have to experienced the terror. Unless of course they ask you for your viewpoint.
 
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