Inconsistency of translating in the New World Translation

White Stone

Active member
Compare the translation between Kingdom Interlinear and the the Study Bible, with other translations.

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We see here, they have correctly translated the verse on Acts 16:7.

Acts 16:7 “Further, when they came down to Mysʹi·a, they made efforts to go into Bi·thynʹi·a, but the spirit of Jesus did not permit them.”

But on 1 Peter 1:11, is a different story.

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They have removed “Christ” and just put “the spirit”.

1 Peter 1:11 “They kept on investigating what particular time or what season the spirit within them was indicating concerning Christ as it testified beforehand about the sufferings meant for Christ and about the glory that would follow.”

Compare with other translations.

1 Peter 1:11 ASV “searching what time or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did point unto, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glories that should follow them.”

1 Peter 1:11 Byington “searching to find out what time or what sort of time Christ’s spirit in them was pointing to in testifying beforehand the sufferings to which Christ was destined and the glory after these;”

1 Peter 1:11 Rotherham “Searching into what particular or what manner of season the Spirit of Christ which was in them was pointing to when witnessing beforehand as to—The sufferings for Christ And the glories after these,”

I have lost trust in NWT. That’s why I have used other translations now, not just sticking to one to know what really the Bible says.

What is your opinion?
 

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Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Sorry, but I have to go with the NWT on this. The Hebrew prophets Peter was referencing obviously lived before Christ. Therefore, they could not have literally had the spirit of Christ, as do Christian disciples. Besides, the NWT did not remove "Christ." They placed "Christ" in the phrase "the spirit within them was indicating concerning Christ." That phrase seems to convey the apostle's intent better because the prophets were moved by God's spirit to try to discern what the spirit was indicating within them concerning Christ.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
The 1984 NWT is very solid I wouldn't say perfect if bethel tried to refine rather than dumb down with the 2013 edition it would have been incredible. While I'd say there's much to be gained from studying multiple translations and manuscript traditions I think anyone would be hard pressed to dispute the 1984 NWT is the best english bible available.
 
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PJ54

Well-known member
The 1984 NWT is very solid I wouldn't say perfect if bethel tried to refine rather than dumb down with the 2013 edition it would have been incredible. While I'd say there's much to be gained from studying multiple translations and manuscript traditions I think anyone would be hard pressed to dispute the 1984 NWT is the best english bible available.
You know, I noticed that the modern English bibles have become more dumbed down over the years. I can see why some people still subscribe to the 1611 KJV. The English language has changed so much that what we speak today isn't the same in the 1940's. You see the writing style then & it is a bit tricky understanding. I have one of an eight a volume series of the Wycliffe Bible in Middle English & it's a totally different language! You have to wonder what was lost over the centuries. Here's the Lord's Prayer as an example:
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Patricia

Well-known member
The 1984 NWT is very solid I wouldn't say perfect if bethel tried to refine rather than dumb down with the 2013 edition it would have been incredible. While I'd say there's much to be gained from studying multiple translations and manuscript traditions I think anyone would be hard pressed to dispute the 1984 NWT is the best english bible available.
Yeah I just found my old one that was packed away with some other books that I didn't know I still had. Packing my grey one away now.😀 I think there was a book called Truth in Translation that said it was the best English version, at that time anyway. I have that book around here somewhere. Can't think who wrote it but supposedly not a witness or affiliated at all.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
I have lost trust in NWT. That’s why I have used other translations now, not just sticking to one to know what really the Bible says.

What is your opinion?
I don’t go into it as deep as you by comparing the original Greek text to the NWT. But I do compare bible texts.

I have an app in which you can compare Dutch bibles. We have the New Bible Translation, The Bible in common Language, Statenvertaling (the State Translation) and some others and sometimes those other translations just make things easier to understand.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
You know, I noticed that the modern English bibles have become more dumbed down over the year. I can see why some people still subscribe to the 1611 KJV. The English language has changed so much that what we speak today isn't the same in the 1940's. You see the writing style then & it is a bit tricky understanding. I have one of an eight a volume series of the Wycliffe Bible in Middle English & it's a totally different language! You have to wonder what was lost over the centuries. Here's the Lord's Prayer as an example:
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Something else I wanted to mention is that there are concepts that cannot be described in English unfortunately. In Hindi there are words to explain spiritual concepts where English doesn't do that. There are state of mind & emotions you feel but cannot express (it's very frustrating) unless you look into other languages. Here's a site that helps in this aspect & a picture as well.
 

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PJ54

Well-known member
Something else I wanted to mention is that there are concepts that cannot be described in English unfortunately. In Hindi there are words to explain spiritual concepts where English doesn't do that. There are state of mind & emotions you feel but cannot express (it's very frustrating) unless you look into other languages. Here's a site that helps in this aspect & a picture as well.
Found this as well:
 

White Stone

Active member
Sorry, but I have to go with the NWT on this. The Hebrew prophets Peter was referencing obviously lived before Christ. Therefore, they could not have literally had the spirit of Christ, as do Christian disciples.
I understand what you meant but Apostle Peter and the other Apostles understands that Christ was already operating for Jehovah since the founding of the world.(John 1:1,2; Colosians 1:15-17) For example, in the creation.

Genesis 1:2 ASV“And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters”
From this perspective, we can conclude that it is Jehovah or the holy spirit that is doing the creation, but in some on the New Testament, it is credited to the Lord Jesus.

John 1:3 NWT All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence.”​
Colossians 1:16 ASV “for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.”
Even though John and Paul credited the creation to Jesus in some verses, they understand of course that the whole creation is credited to God.(Hebrews 3:4)

Who was the “Spirit of God” mentioned in Genesis 1:2? Is it Jehovah, holy spirit or Jesus?

Consider the following verses.

Romans 8:9 NWT “However, you are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if God’s spirit truly dwells in you. But if anyone does not have Christ’s spirit, this person does not belong to him.”
Acts 16:6,7 NWT “Moreover, they traveled through Phrygʹi·a and the country of Ga·laʹti·a, because they were forbidden by the holy spirit to speak the word in the province of Asia. Further, when they came down to Mysʹi·a, they made efforts to go into Bi·thynʹi·a, but the spirit of Jesus did not permit them.”
When Peter wrote 1 Peter 1:11, he wrote it in his perspective knowing Jesus was operating with the Father even in the Old testament times. Since Jesus was working with the Father since the beginning.(John 1:1-4) The prophets of old did not know this, they only prophesied and do not understand, because it was a mystery yet to be unraveled on its own appointed time, which is the Christ.(Colossians 2:2,3)

Just to be clear, I do not adhere to the Trinity.

Did Christ only worked in the New Testament times?
 
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White Stone

Active member
Christ did not exist until Jesus was baptized and anointed. That is when he became Christ. Christ means anointed one. That is the point the apostle Peter was making. The pre-Christian prophets were moved by God's spirit and looked ahead to the appearance of the promised Christ.
Clearly, you didn’t understand what I was trying to say. Christ did exist before, but of course, just as you stated, not in the name of Christ(he was not yet anointed), or Jesus(because that became his name only when he became a man). But even then he was not yet anointed as Christ, God already picked him as his Christ, waiting to be manifested to the world, that is to us.

1 Peter 1:20 “True, he was foreknown before the founding of the world, but he was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake.”

He was working in behalf of his Father since the beginning, since the creation, before all things came to be.(John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16,17) This was evident when He said to Jesus(I used Jesus here as was Peter for this verse):

Genesis 1:26 “Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.”

Just to express my thoughts here. It’s up to the reader to decide for themselves.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
Aren’t you saying Christ (Michael, God’s son, whatever name you want to give him) is equal to the holy spirit by stating this?
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Clearly, you didn’t understand what I was trying to say. Christ did exist before, but of course, just as you stated, not in the name of Christ(he was not yet anointed), or Jesus(because that became his name only when he became a man). But even then he was not yet anointed as Christ, God already picked him as his Christ, waiting to be manifested to the world, that is to us.

1 Peter 1:20 “True, he was foreknown before the founding of the world, but he was made manifest at the end of the times for your sake.”

He was working in behalf of his Father since the beginning, since the creation, before all things came to be.(John 1:1-3; Colossians 1:16,17) This was evident when He said to Jesus(I used Jesus here as was Peter for this verse):

Genesis 1:26 “Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.”

Just to express my thoughts here. It’s up to the reader to decide for themselves.
We all know Jesus had a prehuman existence. That is hardly the point. You are criticizing the NWT for a change you say is unjustified. I pointed out the NWT is actually correct. Then you veered off into Jesus' prehuman existence and even cite Scriptures as if to teach us that Jesus lived in heaven before he became the Christ as if we did not know. You should probably just leave it.
 

White Stone

Active member
Aren’t you saying Christ (Michael, God’s son, whatever name you want to give him) is equal to the holy spirit by stating this?
No. Just like the anointed are the Body of Christ and yet, is not equal of Christ.(1 Corinthians 11:3) Also for example, imagine when Jesus stated as if he was the one being done of the things done to his disciples.

Matthew 25:40 “In reply the King will say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’”​
Matthew 25:45 “Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’”​
Acts 9:4,5 “and he fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him: “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” He asked: “Who are you, Lord?” He said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”
Was Jesus the one really being persecuted? No, but because in a sense he was in union with them, that’s why he can say that he is the one being done the things being done to his disciples. That is also the same concept with the verses I quoted previously on my posts. They are being mentioned interchangeably. Consider this verse from Galatians.

Galatians 4:6 “Now because you are sons, God has sent the spirit of his Son into our hearts, and it cries out: “Abba, Father!””​
With its cross reference from NWT itself.​
Romans 5:5 “and the hope does not lead to disappointment; because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the holy spirit, which was given to us.”​
Now please ask yourself, who was it? Spirit of Jesus or the holy spirit? As the Lord Jesus said:
John 16:15 All the things that the Father has are mine. That is why I said he receives from what is mine and declares it to you.”
John 17:9,10 “I make request concerning them; I make request, not concerning the world, but concerning those whom you have given me, because they are yours; 10 and all my things are yours and yours are mine, and I have been glorified among them.”
Of which the holy spirit is included. Therefore, they are not equal. But just like from the scriptures above, they are interchangeable when mentioned so that the Son may be glorified through it to the glory of the Father.(Philippians 2:9-11)
 
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Nomex

Well-known member
a book called Truth in Translation that said it was the best English version
I did some research on this book myself awhile back because of the JW rumor going around that this question was on the show Jeopardy it was not, and I forget that authors name also, but what he actually said was, that of the English Bible Translations he was reviewing, that the NWT was the best English translation out of those. Which I would say is still excellent, and would have you wonder why they would dumb it down like they did.
 
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Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
I did some research on this book myself awhile back because of the JW rumnor going around that this question was on the show Jeopardy it was not, and I forget that authors name also, but what he actually say was, that of the English Bible Translations he was reviewing, that the NWT was the best English translation out of those. Which I would say is still excellent, and would have you wonder why they would dumb it down like they did.
Jason BeDuhn was the author.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
You know, I noticed that the modern English bibles have become more dumbed down over the years. I can see why some people still subscribe to the 1611 KJV. The English language has changed so much that what we speak today isn't the same in the 1940's. You see the writing style then & it is a bit tricky understanding. I have one of an eight a volume series of the Wycliffe Bible in Middle English & it's a totally different language! You have to wonder what was lost over the centuries. Here's the Lord's Prayer as an example:
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I just found an interesting video about English in it's earlier time period. Pretty interesting.
 
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