Is it just me?

S

Searcher

Guest
Where else can we go?". I think the answer is nowhere.
Everyone I know has been saying this question. Relatives who are freaked out by the org right now are asking it. Friends who are happy with the org, with blinders on, say it as in, "Why would anyone not agree?!"

Where else can we go?

I asked that question out loud that a few months ago while looking out the window. And the answer was simple. The only place there is to go is actually, like you mentioned: Jesus. I was so happy to finally recognize this after growing up my whole life as a JW and knowing something was off but not understanding what it was. I felt so blessed!

I think people are so comforted by what they can see. An org seems more tangible. They are given glossy, colorful new publications (or used to be anyways). They can watch videos on their phone. Be reassured over and over in updates. Stay coddled and reassured that in the org, this sort of physical presence on earth, they will absolutely be kept safe.

But it's a sham; it doesn't work like that. The feeling of safety in an earthly organization; a trust in 8 men who don't even know your name and have neither the insight or wisdom to see the future like they often pretend to, is all a lie and a snare. It's not real faith.

When I started finding real faith, it seemed like a scary leap. There's clearly not a lot of people who like you developing it because to do so you have to ask questions and dig and turn to Jesus instead of men. Plenty of friends will reject you over it, just as Jesus said would happen. So you're on your own in a way. Or you're at least surrounded by fewer than before. The earthly "representatives" that served to reassure you that they could tell you everything are not what you have anymore; you realize you don't understand everything in the Bible. You've been told you have the ultimate truth, no need for any alarm; we basically understand everything... Well, no, it's more complicated than that. You have more questions, maybe some worries. Some fear. Real fear. But faith is what overcomes the unknowns. Reading - actually reading - Revelation you realize the end is scary. It doesn't look like all the videos the organization presented to you; of you being nicely clothed and sitting with a group of friends in a basement talking about the time you hung out with worldly people at work. No. It's bigger than that. If you actually read it, you see you should expect suffering. Now hopefully you're able to endure to the end, but some of us will die. You have to come to terms with being faithful even in the face of death, even a gruesome death. Is your faith strong enough to cover that? Well, previously it had not been... But the farther you throw the fleshly representatives and turn to Jesus, the larger your faith grows.

This is just my perspective and experience. I liken it to Peter. He had faith. He used it to step out to meet Jesus on the water. He focused on Jesus. And when he turned his attention back to the earthly things around him and wanted to feel safety, his faith faltered. And I have to suspect that those turning strongly to an org led by men now, it's because they are actually having doubts like Peter did in that moment, and it's because they are in fear. Their faith is lacking as they have these fears and doubts. As Peter cried out and wanted help even though he was safe with Jesus, so these brothers and sisters are frightened and crying out to men to comfort them from their TV and phones, so to speak - even though it's only Jesus who can save, not anyone else, and especially not the GB or the organization.

I never want to turn back to men in this world. It's going to be scary and a lot to endure. But we have to lift up our heads! Jesus is where we go. Jesus is the only Way...
 

Dorothea

Well-known member
Everyone I know has been saying this question. Relatives who are freaked out by the org right now are asking it. Friends who are happy with the org, with blinders on, say it as in, "Why would anyone not agree?!"

Where else can we go?

I asked that question out loud that a few months ago while looking out the window. And the answer was simple. The only place there is to go is actually, like you mentioned: Jesus. I was so happy to finally recognize this after growing up my whole life as a JW and knowing something was off but not understanding what it was. I felt so blessed!

I think people are so comforted by what they can see. An org seems more tangible. They are given glossy, colorful new publications (or used to be anyways). They can watch videos on their phone. Be reassured over and over in updates. Stay coddled and reassured that in the org, this sort of physical presence on earth, they will absolutely be kept safe.

But it's a sham; it doesn't work like that. The feeling of safety in an earthly organization; a trust in 8 men who don't even know your name and have neither the insight or wisdom to see the future like they often pretend to, is all a lie and a snare. It's not real faith.

When I started finding real faith, it seemed like a scary leap. There's clearly not a lot of people who like you developing it because to do so you have to ask questions and dig and turn to Jesus instead of men. Plenty of friends will reject you over it, just as Jesus said would happen. So you're on your own in a way. Or you're at least surrounded by fewer than before. The earthly "representatives" that served to reassure you that they could tell you everything are not what you have anymore; you realize you don't understand everything in the Bible. You've been told you have the ultimate truth, no need for any alarm; we basically understand everything... Well, no, it's more complicated than that. You have more questions, maybe some worries. Some fear. Real fear. But faith is what overcomes the unknowns. Reading - actually reading - Revelation you realize the end is scary. It doesn't look like all the videos the organization presented to you; of you being nicely clothed and sitting with a group of friends in a basement talking about the time you hung out with worldly people at work. No. It's bigger than that. If you actually read it, you see you should expect suffering. Now hopefully you're able to endure to the end, but some of us will die. You have to come to terms with being faithful even in the face of death, even a gruesome death. Is your faith strong enough to cover that? Well, previously it had not been... But the farther you throw the fleshly representatives and turn to Jesus, the larger your faith grows.

This is just my perspective and experience. I liken it to Peter. He had faith. He used it to step out to meet Jesus on the water. He focused on Jesus. And when he turned his attention back to the earthly things around him and wanted to feel safety, his faith faltered. And I have to suspect that those turning strongly to an org led by men now, it's because they are actually having doubts like Peter did in that moment, and it's because they are in fear. Their faith is lacking as they have these fears and doubts. As Peter cried out and wanted help even though he was safe with Jesus, so these brothers and sisters are frightened and crying out to men to comfort them from their TV and phones, so to speak - even though it's only Jesus who can save, not anyone else, and especially not the GB or the organization.

I never want to turn back to men in this world. It's going to be scary and a lot to endure. But we have to lift up our heads! Jesus is where we go. Jesus is the only Way...
The truth of this actually brought tears to my eyes. It’s a hard truth when we’ve been used to being spiritually bottle fed the equivalent of commercial formula when we should have long ago graduated to steak and potatoes.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
Well if you listen to me lately I have even got the Queen strangely disapeared for the last 10 day's only reported engagement was last wednesday and that was a phone call to Boris supposedly!? Chortle....With such devious tactics, the imagination goes wild.. Thanks for your encouragement PJ. Yes b4 dying on a train his last request was to be dressed in a Toga, there was only a sheet which sufficed.... It has been well documented but then who knows could be myth. What can we believe other than Jah's book?
The UK plan a nationwide 4 day public celebration of the Queens Platinum Jubilee. The Queen has not been seen in public since before the invasion.
The Queen has just popped up looking really well, meeting Treudo. I was so sure there was no Queen.
 

Cristo

Well-known member
Everyone I know has been saying this question. Relatives who are freaked out by the org right now are asking it. Friends who are happy with the org, with blinders on, say it as in, "Why would anyone not agree?!"

Where else can we go?

I asked that question out loud that a few months ago while looking out the window. And the answer was simple. The only place there is to go is actually, like you mentioned: Jesus. I was so happy to finally recognize this after growing up my whole life as a JW and knowing something was off but not understanding what it was. I felt so blessed!

I think people are so comforted by what they can see. An org seems more tangible. They are given glossy, colorful new publications (or used to be anyways). They can watch videos on their phone. Be reassured over and over in updates. Stay coddled and reassured that in the org, this sort of physical presence on earth, they will absolutely be kept safe.

But it's a sham; it doesn't work like that. The feeling of safety in an earthly organization; a trust in 8 men who don't even know your name and have neither the insight or wisdom to see the future like they often pretend to, is all a lie and a snare. It's not real faith.

When I started finding real faith, it seemed like a scary leap. There's clearly not a lot of people who like you developing it because to do so you have to ask questions and dig and turn to Jesus instead of men. Plenty of friends will reject you over it, just as Jesus said would happen. So you're on your own in a way. Or you're at least surrounded by fewer than before. The earthly "representatives" that served to reassure you that they could tell you everything are not what you have anymore; you realize you don't understand everything in the Bible. You've been told you have the ultimate truth, no need for any alarm; we basically understand everything... Well, no, it's more complicated than that. You have more questions, maybe some worries. Some fear. Real fear. But faith is what overcomes the unknowns. Reading - actually reading - Revelation you realize the end is scary. It doesn't look like all the videos the organization presented to you; of you being nicely clothed and sitting with a group of friends in a basement talking about the time you hung out with worldly people at work. No. It's bigger than that. If you actually read it, you see you should expect suffering. Now hopefully you're able to endure to the end, but some of us will die. You have to come to terms with being faithful even in the face of death, even a gruesome death. Is your faith strong enough to cover that? Well, previously it had not been... But the farther you throw the fleshly representatives and turn to Jesus, the larger your faith grows.

This is just my perspective and experience. I liken it to Peter. He had faith. He used it to step out to meet Jesus on the water. He focused on Jesus. And when he turned his attention back to the earthly things around him and wanted to feel safety, his faith faltered. And I have to suspect that those turning strongly to an org led by men now, it's because they are actually having doubts like Peter did in that moment, and it's because they are in fear. Their faith is lacking as they have these fears and doubts. As Peter cried out and wanted help even though he was safe with Jesus, so these brothers and sisters are frightened and crying out to men to comfort them from their TV and phones, so to speak - even though it's only Jesus who can save, not anyone else, and especially not the GB or the organization.

I never want to turn back to men in this world. It's going to be scary and a lot to endure. But we have to lift up our heads! Jesus is where we go. Jesus is the only Way...

Jesus is the way, and the truth, and the life there can be no doubt. I appreciate what you are saying regarding him, and the faith that Peter showed(and sometimes didn't). I'm sure everybody on the forum appreciates these points you are making as most of them have already left the organization, and even though there are those still inside like yourself(I think you are at least), you and them see the writing on the wall for what it is.

However, we must not forget the source, and reason, that Jesus is 'the way' in the first place. Regardless of whether we are still in the Org, or out, we are and always will be witnesses of Jehovah, just as Jesus was. Jesus would not be the 'way' unless first Jehovah wanted him to be, spoken directly by Jesus himself.

"Our Father in the heavens...let your will take place as in heaven also upon the earth..."
While I appreciate your sentiments on Jesus and the most important value he has in our hearts, and the perfect example he set for us to follow, it should be a balanced view of the overall picture in that it is not just Jesus, but through Jesus to the Glory of our Heavenly Father Jehovah that we have faith in him in the first place. That difference is what places us in line to receive the blessings, and understanding, and Holy Spirit that our loving father pours out on us through his son Jesus Christ. We must recognize the source...else the rest does not matter.

When we don't the Father, it starts to sound a lot like Christendom who doesn't acknowledge Jehovah as the source of all things.
 
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S

Searcher

Guest
Jesus is the way, and the truth, and the life there can be no doubt. I appreciate what you are saying regarding him, and the faith that Peter showed(and sometimes didn't). I'm sure everybody on the forum appreciates these points you are making as most of them have already left the organization, and even though there are those still inside like yourself(I think you are at least), you and them see the writing on the wall for what it is.

However, we must not forget the source, and reason, that Jesus is 'the way' in the first place. Regardless of whether we are still in the Org, or out, we are and always will be witnesses of Jehovah, just as Jesus was. Jesus would not be the 'way' unless first Jehovah wanted him to be, spoken directly by Jesus himself.

"Our Father in the heavens...let your will take place as in heaven also upon the earth..."
While I appreciate your sentiments on Jesus and the most important value he has in our hearts, and the perfect example he set for us to follow, it should be a balanced view of the overall picture in that it is not just Jesus, but through Jesus to the Glory of our Heavenly Father Jehovah that we have faith in him in the first place. That difference is what places us in line to receive the blessings, and understanding, and Holy Spirit that our loving father pours out on us through his son Jesus Christ. We must recognize the source...else the rest does not matter.

When we don't the Father, it starts to sound a lot like Christendom who doesn't acknowledge Jehovah as the source of all things.
Thank you. Of course, I recognize the authority of God, and that no one can come to the Father except through Jesus.

However, my post was indeed purposefully about Jesus because my point was this: The GB are putting themselves in his place, which I find seriously gross (and I never recognized it until recently).

Jesus' place and authority were given to him by his Father: it was not given to mere men. So no, I never knew Jesus properly until recently. And therefore, I think it also prevents people feeling close to, not only him, but God as well, since Jesus is our mediator between us and God; and thus most JWs reach out to human representatives to comfort their worries because their faith is not built on a solid foundation (Jesus).

Glory to Yah, but also praise to Jesus! I am happy to proclaim about him to people because that's what we are supposed to do (Luke 21:13). Some Christian groups elevate him to being equal with God, which is wrong. But on the other hand, some (think GB and their organization) diminish his importance completely. Both are incorrect.
 
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Cristo

Well-known member
Thank you. Of course, I recognize the authority of God, and that no one can come to the Father except through Jesus.

However, my post was indeed purposefully about Jesus because my point was this: The GB are putting themselves in his place, which I find seriously gross (and I never recognized it until recently).

Jesus' place and authority were given to him by his Father: it was not given to mere men. So no, I never knew Jesus properly until recently. And therefore, I think it also prevents people feeling close to, not only him, but God as well, since Jesus is our mediator between us and God; and thus most JWs reach out to human representatives to comfort their worries because their faith is not built on a solid foundation (Jesus).

Glory to Yah, but also praise to Jesus! I am happy to proclaim about him to people because that's what we are supposed to do (Luke 21:13). Some Christian groups elevate him to being equal with God, which is wrong. But on the other hand, some (think GB and their organization) diminish his importance completely. Both are incorrect.

Searcher....I need to ask you a simple question.

Do you believe Jesus is God?

I know you already stated "' some christian groups elevate him to being equal to God, which is wrong", but is it really just some? Isn't it the entirety of Christendom?
 
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S

Searcher

Guest
Searcher....I need to ask you a simple question.

Do you believe Jesus is God?

I know you already stated "' some christian groups elevate him to being equal to God, which is wrong", but is it really just some? Isn't it the entirety of Christendom?
Nope, I don't.
And nope, it isn't.
 
S

Searcher

Guest
Thanks for answering...

Can you tell me what Christian groups besides JW that don't elevate Jesus to be equal with God. Because I don't know of any so I'm very curious which ones don't.
Why not start talking to people and find them for yourself? There are plenty of people who aren't JWs who don't think that; we discovered that while searching people out on a recent cross country road trip. There are groups of Christians, usually smaller denominations, who have come to similar conclusions on that. Why don't you do a quick Google search even on non-Trinitarian churches if you're desiring to find some with similar beliefs as you?

However, even if they do think Jesus is elevated to the same status as God, I don't judge them; I view them as my brothers and sisters in Christ. (John 3:16) It is not my place to judge them for their understanding which is impartial, since mine is too. So if I talk to someone who thinks that, I share with them what I read and let them share with me what they know, and, what I've found from doing this, is that both parties usually learn something. (Proverbs 27:17)
 
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kirmmy

Well-known member
There are plenty of people who aren't JWs who don't think that; we discovered that while searching people out on a recent cross country road trip.
And that's why I believe now that JWs won't be the only ones that God ushers into his kingdom.
However, even if they do think Jesus is elevated to the same status as God
Christ was elevated to an extremely high position with "life within himself". He is immortal now. He's ever referred to as "mighty god". They may have taken that a bit far but as you've said we can't judge. A close examination of the Bible makes it clear though, that Jehovah is Almighty God and the creator of his son Jesus, if one reads it with an open heart and critical mind. In the end Jah, through his son, will separate the wheat from the chaff. I hope to be in the pile of wheat but what do I know...
 

mreader

Well-known member
Actually, having watched most of the Annual Meeting. (Sorry, S Lett, I have my limits) it leaves me wondering if there even was a live audience. For one thing, all of the GB speakers are standing up against a white screen and the camera never shows them walking on or off or standing on the stage, as is usual. I would not be surprised if they took footage of an audience from before the pandemic and used it to create the illusion of a live event.
actually, I think You are right. I would never think about it. Because as far as I remember a showings in the past (whatever that was..) they were 'alive', you could hear on a background a voices or some kind of noises and movement and things like that.....and also from time to time the audience Live was showed. Beside like You said the speaker would be seen walking on the stage...so, it doesn't fit to a real scenerio...

I think what You are saying is right. It's not real. It's just to make illusion that it's live..
 

4JahandChrist

Well-known member
Thanks for answering...

Can you tell me what Christian groups besides JW that don't elevate Jesus to be equal with God. Because I don't know of any so I'm very curious which ones don't.
The Christadelphians are very anti Trinitarian. They are about the only one outside of JWs that I can think of.

There are also a subset of Pentecostals that are called "Oneness Pentecostals". They are non Trinitarian as well.

In the case of both groups they take the whole thing too far and deny the Pre Human existence of Christ. Christ for them only existed in Jehovah's mind as a concept and did not become an actual being until his human birth.

Neither group are Worldwide like us. They are predominately found in the Anglosphere with little influence outside of it.
 

Ana

Well-known member
Y es por eso que ahora creo que los Testigos de Jehová no serán los únicos a los que Dios introducirá en su reino.

Cristo fue elevado a una posición extremadamente alta con "vida dentro de sí mismo". Ahora es inmortal. Alguna vez se ha referido a él como "dios poderoso". Es posible que lo hayan llevado un poco lejos, pero como ha dicho, no podemos juzgar. Sin embargo, un examen minucioso de la Biblia deja en claro que Jehová es Dios Todopoderoso y el creador de su hijo Jesús, si uno la lee con un corazón abierto y una mente crítica. Al final, Jah, a través de su hijo, separará el trigo de la paja. Espero estar en el montón de trigo pero que se
Miqueas 4:3-5 habla de esas personas.
 

RTAW

Well-known member
Thanks for answering...

Can you tell me what Christian groups besides JW that don't elevate Jesus to be equal with God. Because I don't know of any so I'm very curious which ones don't.
The Restored Church of God, HQ out of in Ohio. Much of what they teach is identical to JW teachings. They have a youtube channel with videos that address all the common topics.
 

4JahandChrist

Well-known member
The Restored Church of God, HQ out of in Ohio. Much of what they teach is identical to JW teachings. They have a youtube channel with videos that address all the common topics.
As Robert said, a splinter group from the original Worldwide Church of God......."World famous in America".

In Australia they were extremely small. ....even smaller than the Christadelphians.

I met one in the field one day and he was the only one in our territory....they largely relied on correspondence from the Mother Ship in America to get them through as there was no real meeting for them to attend.

America's pro Protestant/Evangelical Bible Belt has enabled a number of "Christian" off shoots that don't have any presence in the rest of the World. (Not to mention America's Population......320 million. Allows for so much to develop that couldn't happen anywhere else)
 
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