Jehovah Has Become King 4.0

[SusanB]

The passages you cite are important, but their timing and context matter. Hosea prophesied in the 8th century BCE, yet Jehovah’s judgment on Israel unfolded decades later, using Assyria and later Babylon as external instruments—showing that even when corruption was real, Jehovah did not act impulsively, nor did individuals initiate the separation themselves (Hosea 8:14; 2 Kings 17:6). That historical pattern is consistent: Jehovah allows time, sends warnings, and then employs external powers (Assyria, Babylon, Rome) to execute judgment.

As for 2 Corinthians 6:16–18, the immediate context is separation from unbelievers and idolatrous practices, not an instruction to abandon God’s arrangement or to declare an organization apostate ahead of Christ’s judgment (2 Corinthians 6:14–15). Paul repeatedly urged Christians to remain patient within the congregation, correcting and enduring one another, while leaving final judgment to Jehovah (Galatians 6:1, Romans 12:19). These scriptures support vigilance and moral clarity but they also warn against outrunning Jehovah’s timetable or assuming a role Scripture consistently reserves for Him.

This will be my last comment because interacting with you is like interacting with a trinitarian. It goes in endless circles. The historial “pattern” does not apply to the Watchtower, it applies to the anointed. Who are they? Do you have any proof they are in fact the temple of God, which is only made up of anointed ones and not a corporation. You seem to think that believers cannot be involved in idolatry and that is wrong. And, lastly, you still did not admit that no one will be advised to flee from the Chosen Ones when the 8th King is here, which is what you wrote. Admit it. Tell the truth. You said it and it is scripturally incorrect.

 

[SusanB]

"When you see the disgusting thing" , Im not intelligent, but I can see the disgusting thing standing in Jehovahs house..Does it take a ton of bricks to fall on your head to see that??? who is supposed to see The Disgusting Thing First??? Brothers and sisters are leaving the WT for the sake of their sanity. "Flee to the mountains "away from the nutters...Its doesnt take a clinical pysk. to see that the Covid mandates ended the preaching work, or their shot mandate from the WT were against the Christ who said Go and preach!!! or take the shot we give.. I wonder how much money the WT actually made supporting the Covid shot??? At this point to most important thing is what we do , be loyal to Jehovah. Bible Lover you need to read your Bible instead of preaching to the choir...Obviously you haven't read Jehovahs judgements on the house of God.

I need to put a bunch of emojis on this one!!!!

 

[SusanB]

SusanB "Do you spend as much time trying to talk sense into the GB or Elders that you do on this forum? Go where the serious sin is and then start barking. I pointed out clear error in your reasoning and you completely ignore it. IF you think the GB should apologize and admit error, then set the example because your argument was way off base. Enough said.​

@Bible lover.
That's Watchtower think for you -deny 'deny 'deny and never apologize - never admit that they are wrong , they don't know the meaning of empathy or mercy as Jesus had explained it - they would prefer you just do as they say totally rejecting your conscious choice because that's what egotistic narcissistic unloving people do, in essence it's a form of Satan worship!. Far as I'm concerned my job here is done because I now feel that this website here is no longer up building and has gone to the dogs as it were because Robert King has allowed such brainwashing propaganda from people like Bible lover to go unchecked . PS you guys if you're going to stay on this site please follow the Apostle Paul's advice and make sure of everything and please remember not to put your trust in Nobles .

Take a break brother if it will help you. We need your wonderful input, but come back when you feel better. Don’t blame Brother King just ask him for his thinking on it. People have different perspectives.

 

[BibleLover]

This will be my last comment because interacting with you is like interacting with a trinitarian. It goes in endless circles. The historial “pattern” does not apply to the Watchtower, it applies to the anointed. Who are they? Do you have any proof they are in fact the temple of God, which is only made up of anointed ones and not a corporation. You seem to think that believers cannot be involved in idolatry and that is wrong. And, lastly, you still did not admit that no one will be advised to flee from the Chosen Ones when the 8th King is here, which is what you wrote. Admit it. Tell the truth. You said it and it is scripturally incorrect.

I think there is a misunderstanding of what I actually said. I did not say believers cannot fall into idolatry; Scripture plainly shows they can and have (1 Corinthians 10:6–12). Nor did I equate a corporation with the temple of God. The Bible is clear that the temple is made up of anointed ones, yet those anointed ones have always existed within an identifiable arrangement that Jehovah allowed to function for a time, even when it was flawed (1 Corinthians 3:16–17; Ephesians 2:20–22). The historical pattern does apply to the anointed precisely because Jehovah has never instructed individuals to declare the moment of abandonment on their own initiative. In every biblical case, judgment came after a period of patience, and it was executed by external powers, not by internal flight based on perceived corruption (Jeremiah 25:8–9; Luke 21:20).

Regarding the 8th King, the point is simple and scriptural: Jesus ties fleeing to the moment when the disgusting thing is standing where it should not, not to a time chosen in advance (Matthew 24:15–16). Logically, one cannot flee from a desolation that has not yet occurred. That is not circular reasoning; it is following the sequence Jesus himself laid out. The separation of wheat and weeds is explicitly assigned to the conclusion and to angelic action, not to present-day declarations by individuals, however sincere (Matthew 13:30, 39–43). Disagreement over timing is not dishonesty, it is an attempt to let Scripture set the order of events rather than personal conviction.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I just think you are completely wrong and put the emphasis on what is not important as the Jews did with the temple, while forgetting the weightier matters. And the Watchtower was built by men although blessed for a time by Jehovah until they deviated. It is now an idol. Or perhaps I should say that as long as faithful anointed ones were associated with the Watchtower, Jehovah blessed it?

Do you spend as much time trying to talk sense into the GB or Elders that you do on this forum? Go where the serious sin is and then start barking. I pointed out clear error in your reasoning and you completely ignore it. IF you think the GB should apologize and admit error, then set the example because your argument was way off base. Enough said.

Jeremiah 7:4-11: “‘Do not put your trust in deceptive words and say, “This is the temple of Jehovah, the temple of Jehovah, the temple of Jehovah!” For if you truly reform your ways and actions; if you truly uphold justice between a man and his neighbor; if you do not oppress foreign residents, orphans, and widows; if you do not shed innocent blood in this place; and if you do not follow other gods to your own harm; then I will allow you to keep residing in this place, in the land I gave to your forefathers for all time. But you are putting your trust in deceptive words—it will bring absolutely no benefit. Can you steal, murder, commit adultery, swear falsely, make sacrifices to Baʹal, and follow after gods you had not known, and then come and stand before me in this house that bears my name and say, “We will be saved,” despite your doing all these detestable things? Has this house that bears my name become a cave of robbers in your eyes? Here I have seen it for myself,’ declares Jehovah.”

Hosea 8:14: “Israel has forgotten his Maker and has built temples, And Judah has multiplied fortified cities. But I will send fire into his cities, And it will consume the towers of each one.”

Zechariah 6:12: “And say to him, ‘This is what Jehovah of armies says: “Here is the man whose name is Sprout. He will sprout from his own place, and he will build the temple of Jehovah.”’”

2 Corinthians 6:16-18: “And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: ‘I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people. Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing and I will take you in. And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”

Jeremiah 7:4-11: This is one of your hit the nail on the head moments because it points to the gestation of the Word, rather than using one’s own understanding of it to justify their thinking. I feel strongly that it is the insight into the attributes of Jehovah that gives the key to opening meaning within the scripture and your scripture only serves to prove the point. The depth of meaning and application within the scripture points to depth of understanding in what is mere show, and what is the concept of spirituality in its depth. The former is of humanistic piety, and the latter of spiritual meaning and understanding. The former is a simple billboard or fascia of the belief of men, such as the gb, the latter is inspiration from Jehovah Himself. Good scripture!

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I think there is a misunderstanding of what I actually said. I did not say believers cannot fall into idolatry; Scripture plainly shows they can and have (1 Corinthians 10:6–12). Nor did I equate a corporation with the temple of God. The Bible is clear that the temple is made up of anointed ones, yet those anointed ones have always existed within an identifiable arrangement that Jehovah allowed to function for a time, even when it was flawed (1 Corinthians 3:16–17; Ephesians 2:20–22). The historical pattern does apply to the anointed precisely because Jehovah has never instructed individuals to declare the moment of abandonment on their own initiative. In every biblical case, judgment came after a period of patience, and it was executed by external powers, not by internal flight based on perceived corruption (Jeremiah 25:8–9; Luke 21:20).

Regarding the 8th King, the point is simple and scriptural: Jesus ties fleeing to the moment when the disgusting thing is standing where it should not, not to a time chosen in advance (Matthew 24:15–16). Logically, one cannot flee from a desolation that has not yet occurred. That is not circular reasoning; it is following the sequence Jesus himself laid out. The separation of wheat and weeds is explicitly assigned to the conclusion and to angelic action, not to present-day declarations by individuals, however sincere (Matthew 13:30, 39–43). Disagreement over timing is not dishonesty, it is an attempt to let Scripture set the order of events rather than personal conviction.

I think if you explained the scripture rather than quote it, you might find something useful for yourself to reflect upon. If you take time to read some of the comments and mull over some of Robert’s biblical articles that he writes, you find explanation of the Word. Anyone can quote a scripture. Few may tell of its depth, and even then, it is the Spirit that makes it grow to understanding.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

I would only add that I am still plodding on and will be for a few more weeks, so if anyone else wishes to add a comment, please do so.

Just sent mine this morning Robert..

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

The issue is not whether serious wrongdoing or even complicity in harm exists—Scripture never denies that such things can occur among God’s people—but whether that alone authorizes individuals to declare the moment of flight and separation. Jesus did not say, “When you see moral failure, leave,” but tied the flight to a specific, unmistakable act of desolation by an external power (Luke 21:20–21). That raises necessary questions: Is perceived complicity, however grave, the biblical signal to abandon God’s arrangement? When does the separation of wheat and weeds actually occur—now, or at the conclusion under Christ’s authority? And who is appointed as judge in that separation—individual Christians, or the Son to whom the Father has entrusted judgment? (Matthew 13:30, 37–43; John 5:22). Logically and scripturally, fleeing before the disgusting thing stands in place creates a contradiction: how can one flee from a desolation that has not yet occurred? If we flee now from God's organization, how can we flee when the desolation comes? If we flee now, where are the mountains?
The pattern of Scripture consistently points to endurance, discernment, and waiting on Jehovah’s timing, trusting that when the moment to flee arrives, it will be as clear and unavoidable as it was in the first century—not a matter of personal inference, but divine action (Matthew 24:15–16; Romans 12:19).

But Jesus said let the reader use discernment. I discerned in 2020/21, and I can't UN discern I'm not convinced I made a mistake or got the timing wrong, and after all my experiences with Jehovah over the years I'm pretty sure he'd have put me right by now, nearly 6yrs later..

 

[Bk Kevin]

The passages you cite are important, but their timing and context matter. Hosea prophesied in the 8th century BCE, yet Jehovah’s judgment on Israel unfolded decades later, using Assyria and later Babylon as external instruments—showing that even when corruption was real, Jehovah did not act impulsively, nor did individuals initiate the separation themselves (Hosea 8:14; 2 Kings 17:6). That historical pattern is consistent: Jehovah allows time, sends warnings, and then employs external powers (Assyria, Babylon, Rome) to execute judgment.

As for 2 Corinthians 6:16–18, the immediate context is separation from unbelievers and idolatrous practices, not an instruction to abandon God’s arrangement or to declare an organization apostate ahead of Christ’s judgment (2 Corinthians 6:14–15). Paul repeatedly urged Christians to remain patient within the congregation, correcting and enduring one another, while leaving final judgment to Jehovah (Galatians 6:1, Romans 12:19). These scriptures support vigilance and moral clarity but they also warn against outrunning Jehovah’s timetable or assuming a role Scripture consistently reserves for Him.

According to John 8​

43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father.+ That one was a murderer when he began,+ and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.+ 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin?+ If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God.+ This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”+

You keep forgetting that many of us here did not abandon Jehovah's house they abandoned us and they did that by using their man-made umbilical policies to quell our voices when we delivered scriptural truth to the Brothers & Sisters / Watchtower tract Society, so Bible lover you need to put yourself in check right there and stop accusing us of abandoning Jehovah's house when in reality we did not, in fact didn't the same thing happen to Robert King when he confronted the Watchtower with their false parousia ? and yet I don't see you harassing Robert King to go back to the Watchtower as to forgive and forget, so why is it that you do not tell Robert King to go back to the Watchtower tract Society? and yet you continuously harass others to do so?, I mean do you feel that he's above Jehovah's rules and regulations?, talk "about double standards"...

Now on another note concerning the Apostle Paul and what he instructed us to do in reference to idols worship whether it be literal or spiritual adultery now keep it in mind if we go back to the Watchtower we would have to conform to their man-made un biblical policies in order to be fully reinstated in other words we would have to accept the watchtowers form of worship which is false and we would have to do that by letting the watchtowers man-made umbilical policies supersede the word of Jehovah which would clearly be spiritual adultery and yet that's what you're asking us to do.
shame on you Bible lover because you sound just like Balaam trying to get us to sin against Jehovah as to lose his favor.

Now the Watchtower has certainly prove to be unclean to Jehovah and the evidence is overwhelming so I'll just follow the Apostle Paul's advice, as for everyone else they have to make their own conscious choice.​

The Second to the Corinthians 6​

17 “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”;+

Jeremiah 51​

45 Get out of her midst, my people!+

Escape for your lives*+ from the burning anger of Jehovah!+


AI Overview tidbits
That statement refers to the biblical figure Balaam, a prophet hired to curse Israel but who instead blessed them, then later advised King Balak to lure Israelites into idolatry and sexual immorality for personal gain, a classic warning against greed, false teaching, and compromising faith for money, as detailed in Numbers 22-24 and mentioned in Jude 1:11 and Revelation 2:14.
Who was Balaam?

• He was a prophet who initially tried to obey God but was swayed by greed for riches from King Balak of Moab, who wanted Israel cursed.
• God even made his donkey talk to warn him.
• When he couldn't curse Israel, he suggested they entice the Israelites to sin by inviting them to feasts with idols and sexual immorality, leading to a plague.

Why is he used as an example?

• Greed: He represents those who pursue profit over righteousness.
• False Teaching: He's a warning against leaders who mislead people for personal benefit.
• Compromising Faith: He teaches how easily one can fall when tempted by worldly rewards.

In essence, calling someone "Balaam" means accusing them of trying to lead others into sin or compromise their faith for selfish, often financial, reasons, just as Balaam did against Jehovah's people for profit.

 

[SusanB]

…The Bible is clear that the temple is made up of anointed ones, yet those anointed ones have always existed within an identifiable arrangement that Jehovah allowed to function for a time, even when it was flawed (1 Corinthians 3:16–17; Ephesians 2:20–22). The historical pattern does apply to the anointed precisely because Jehovah has never instructed individuals to declare the moment of abandonment on their own initiative. In every biblical case, judgment came after a period of patience, and it was executed by external powers, not by internal flight based on perceived corruption (Jeremiah 25:8–9; Luke 21:20).

…

Those scriptures do NOT prove your point. What was the “identifiable arrangement” in the 9th century? Who were they? Do you know for sure? We know about the first century because Jehovah provided the proof through the gifts of the spirit. Once those (gifts of the spirit) were gone, we no longer know even up until today. Huge difference. So, you are wrong again. I can only guess that the genius Jehovah has employed to keep the anointing of individuals private at this time is to cause us to use discernment when listening to what people say and to use the scriptures as the touchstone. You have flunked that test.

Now as far as fleeing, it must something that must take place BEFORE or during the beginning of the Great Trib because during the Great Trib is when the anointed are sealed and the 8th King comes to power. That is where we are in time today. If anyone doesn’t recognize we are a hair’s breadth away from the Great Trib, I don’t know what to say.

Bringing up a non-issue, such as saying that “judgment won’t come because of internal flight” is a misdirection, which I think is purposeful, that has nothing to do with the points I have brought up. No one that I know thinks their leaving the ORG would bring about judgment. That is why you use a “gish gallop” thinking it is a legit way to communicate when it is manipulative and that is why so many on the forum are irritated with your comments.

 

[SusanB]

Those scriptures do NOT prove your point. What was the “identifiable arrangement” in the 9th century? Who were they? Do you know for sure? We know about the first century because Jehovah provided the proof through the gifts of the spirit. Once those (gifts of the spirit) were gone, we no longer know even up until today. Huge difference. So, you are wrong again. I can only guess that the genius Jehovah has employed to keep the anointing of individuals private at this time is to cause us to use discernment when listening to what people say and to use the scriptures as the touchstone. You have flunked that test.

Now as far as fleeing, it must something that must take place BEFORE or during the beginning of the Great Trib because during the Great Trib is when the anointed are sealed and the 8th King comes to power. That is where we are in time today. If anyone doesn’t recognize we are a hair’s breadth away from the Great Trib, I don’t know what to say.

Bringing up a non-issue, such as saying that “judgment won’t come because of internal flight” is a misdirection, which I think is purposeful, that has nothing to do with the points I have brought up. No one that I know thinks their leaving the ORG would bring about judgment. That is why you use a “gish gallop” thinking it is a legit way to communicate when it is manipulative and that is why so many on the forum are irritated with your comments.

I should add that after Christians are to flee the “holy place”, there is a period of time they will be in the wilderness or foreign territory before God’s Kingdom becomes revealed. These things convince me that, for me, now is the time to separate and wait for Jehovah. Not to bring judgment on anyone, that is ridiculous to even think about, but this is a time when we can prove our faith and our commitment to be self-motivated to continue to seek Jehovah, to admit we still don’t have all the answers and to show a willingness to persevere on a faithful path and be corrected. It is our conscience, while continuing to train it with the scriptures, that should guide us.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

The passages you cite are important, but their timing and context matter. Hosea prophesied in the 8th century BCE, yet Jehovah’s judgment on Israel unfolded decades later, using Assyria and later Babylon as external instruments—showing that even when corruption was real, Jehovah did not act impulsively, nor did individuals initiate the separation themselves (Hosea 8:14; 2 Kings 17:6). That historical pattern is consistent: Jehovah allows time, sends warnings, and then employs external powers (Assyria, Babylon, Rome) to execute judgment.

As for 2 Corinthians 6:16–18, the immediate context is separation from unbelievers and idolatrous practices, not an instruction to abandon God’s arrangement or to declare an organization apostate ahead of Christ’s judgment (2 Corinthians 6:14–15). Paul repeatedly urged Christians to remain patient within the congregation, correcting and enduring one another, while leaving final judgment to Jehovah (Galatians 6:1, Romans 12:19). These scriptures support vigilance and moral clarity but they also warn against outrunning Jehovah’s timetable or assuming a role Scripture consistently reserves for Him.

But I thought Hosea led moreorless a separate life to the Israelites because of their unfaithfulness? Also, I've heard many experiences of faithful brothers and sisters in the past few years trying to "correct" the brothers and it did not go well with them! So that's not an option really! I do enjoy some of the things you say BL and they'd all work in a "perfect" world, but it seems as if you don't truly comprehend just how crazy this situation is now for brothers and sisters who frequent this forum. I for one feel absolutely stuck between a rock and a hard place and no way do I feel like I'm running ahead of Jehovah's timetable. You mention being vigilant, vigilant about what exactly?

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

This will be my last comment because interacting with you is like interacting with a trinitarian. It goes in endless circles. The historial “pattern” does not apply to the Watchtower, it applies to the anointed. Who are they? Do you have any proof they are in fact the temple of God, which is only made up of anointed ones and not a corporation. You seem to think that believers cannot be involved in idolatry and that is wrong. And, lastly, you still did not admit that no one will be advised to flee from the Chosen Ones when the 8th King is here, which is what you wrote. Admit it. Tell the truth. You said it and it is scripturally incorrect.

It wouldn't surprise me if BL is an AI creation and the GB are using their AI geeks to write all of BL's answers, and so that's why it all just keeps going round and round. AI will definitely "win" in these situations because AI don't get headaches

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

You keep forgetting that many of us here did not abandon Jehovah's house they abandoned us and they did that by using their man-made umbilical policies to quell our voices when we delivered scriptural truth to the Brothers & Sisters / Watchtower tract Society

Exactly this Kev

 

[BibleLover]

But Jesus said let the reader use discernment. I discerned in 2020/21, and I can't UN discern I'm not convinced I made a mistake or got the timing wrong, and after all my experiences with Jehovah over the years I'm pretty sure he'd have put me right by now, nearly 6yrs later..

You touched on something very important. At heart, the question is this: how do we know whether a decision we made was the right one, and whether Jehovah is blessing it? In the world, success is often measured by visible things—money, influence, independence, recognition. But Jesus showed that Jehovah measures very differently. He said that true disciples are identified, not by claims or convictions, but by their fruits (Matthew 7:15–23).

That invites honest self-reflection. If Jehovah is blessing a course, it should increasingly produce the fruitage of the spirit—love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22–23). If, on the other hand, a course gradually cultivates the works of the flesh—bitterness, hostility, pride, divisions, or resentment—that should give us pause (Galatians 5:19–21).

So it can be healthy to ask ourselves some simple but searching questions: Since leaving God's organization, have I become a better Christian? Do I show more love for others, including those who disagree with me? Have I helped anyone draw closer to Jehovah? Am I more humble and teachable? When someone challenges my view with the Bible, do I examine the Scriptures carefully, or do I react by attacking the person instead of the message insulting and slandering him?
Do my decisions reflect consideration for others, or mainly for myself showing a selfish attitude?
For instance, have you thought why Jehovah instructed the first-century Christians to remain in Jerusalem (the holy place) until Rome as the “disgusting thing” actually appeared? He wanted the apostles and disciples to continue preaching there, so that as many as possible could hear, respond, and later flee when the time came (Luke 21:20–21). Those who listened were saved. In a similar way, remaining within Jehovah’s arrangement allows Christians to help new ones learn the truth and gain salvation, rather than leaving them without guidance.

Finally, it is worth considering the practical side of Jesus’ command to preach the good news throughout the earth. A global work—reaching distant places, translating material into hundreds of languages, and supporting believers worldwide—has always required organization. The Bible itself shows that Jehovah consistently uses organized arrangements to accomplish His purpose (1 Corinthians 14:33, 40). Discernment, then, is not only about making a decision once, but about continually examining whether that decision is producing the kind of spiritual fruit Jehovah values.

 

[BrooksB]

how do we know whether a decision we made was the right one, and whether Jehovah is blessing it? In the world, success is often measured by visible things—money, influence, independence, recognition. But Jesus showed that Jehovah measures very differently. He said that true disciples are identified, not by claims or convictions, but by their fruits (Matthew 7:15–23).

AND ... "Do not be anxious over anything,g but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your heartsj and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus." Philippians 4:6+7

Yes, Jehovah reveals all things spiritual to his loyal servants. "In the house of my Father there are many abodes". John 14:12 There are many spiritual experiences that can vary from person to person, not just a one size fits all box that @Jahrule tried to point out to a few boxed and packaged WT adherents in another thread. So when @Proverbs 14 v 15 says she is certain of a particular personal spiritual awareness, she has the god given gift of being free to do so and share that with others.

 

[Bk Kevin]

You touched on something very important. At heart, the question is this: how do we know whether a decision we made was the right one, and whether Jehovah is blessing it? In the world, success is often measured by visible things—money, influence, independence, recognition. But Jesus showed that Jehovah measures very differently. He said that true disciples are identified, not by claims or convictions, but by their fruits (Matthew 7:15–23).

That invites honest self-reflection. If Jehovah is blessing a course, it should increasingly produce the fruitage of the spirit—love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faith, mildness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22–23). If, on the other hand, a course gradually cultivates the works of the flesh—bitterness, hostility, pride, divisions, or resentment—that should give us pause (Galatians 5:19–21).

So it can be healthy to ask ourselves some simple but searching questions: Since leaving God's organization, have I become a better Christian? Do I show more love for others, including those who disagree with me? Have I helped anyone draw closer to Jehovah? Am I more humble and teachable? When someone challenges my view with the Bible, do I examine the Scriptures carefully, or do I react by attacking the person instead of the message insulting and slandering him?
Do my decisions reflect consideration for others, or mainly for myself showing a selfish attitude?
For instance, have you thought why Jehovah instructed the first-century Christians to remain in Jerusalem (the holy place) until Rome as the “disgusting thing” actually appeared? He wanted the apostles and disciples to continue preaching there, so that as many as possible could hear, respond, and later flee when the time came (Luke 21:20–21). Those who listened were saved. In a similar way, remaining within Jehovah’s arrangement allows Christians to help new ones learn the truth and gain salvation, rather than leaving them without guidance.

Finally, it is worth considering the practical side of Jesus’ command to preach the good news throughout the earth. A global work—reaching distant places, translating material into hundreds of languages, and supporting believers worldwide—has always required organization. The Bible itself shows that Jehovah consistently uses organized arrangements to accomplish His purpose (1 Corinthians 14:33, 40). Discernment, then, is not only about making a decision once, but about continually examining whether that decision is producing the kind of spiritual fruit Jehovah values.

More Guilt Trip gas lighting, isn't that the same technique the Watchtower tract Society use???
In fact isn't that being emotionally abusive???

AI Overview tidbits

Guilt-trip gaslighting in religious contexts involves using faith-based language, doctrines, and divine authority to manipulate individuals into doubting their own perceptions, feelings, and sanity
. This form of spiritual abuse often weaponizes guilt to maintain control, silence dissent, and enforce compliance, leaving victims feeling isolated, ashamed, and questioning their reality.
Here are the primary guilt-trip gaslighting methods used in religious settings:
1. Blaming God for Personal Suffering or Abuse
Manipulators may claim that a person's suffering is a divine test, punishment for sin, or part of "God's plan," rather than holding perpetrators accountable.

• Phrases: "God is punishing you," "God is testing you," or "Everything happens for a reason".
• Result: The victim feels guilty for their pain, believing they deserve it or are not responding "righteously" enough.

2. Weaponizing "Lack of Faith"
Valid emotions, depression, or legitimate questions are dismissed as a personal spiritual failing.

• Phrases: "You just need to have more faith," "You're not praying hard enough," or "Stop complaining about your mental health issues".
• Result: Individuals feel guilty for struggling and stop trusting their own mental health needs, believing they are bad Christians.

3. Twisting Scripture and Claiming Divine Authority
Leaders or peers may claim to have a direct line to God to manipulate decisions, often using biblical verses out of context to enforce compliance.

• Methods: Using "submission" to justify toxic relationships, or stating "God told me..." to override a person's boundaries.
• Result: Victims feel they are arguing with God if they disagree with the manipulator.

4. "Spiritual Bypassing" and Invalidation
This involves skipping over real-world emotional problems or trauma by using spiritual cliches, forcing the victim to ignore their own reality.

• Examples: Telling someone to "forgive and forget" a dangerous situation, or ignoring abuse in favor of focusing on "keeping the family/church together".
• Result: The victim doubts their own sense of safety or injustice.

5. Shaming for Doubts and Questions
Questioning doctrines or leadership is reframed as rebellion, sin, or being "deceived by the enemy".

• Phrases: "You're leaning on your own understanding," "You're being rebellious," or "That doubt is a sign of weakness".
• Result: The individual feels intense guilt for having critical thoughts and stops asking questions.

6. Misusing "Love" and "Community" to Isolate
Guilt is used to stop people from leaving, setting boundaries, or reporting abuse, framing their independence as a betrayal of faith.

• Phrases: "Think about how your actions reflect on our faith," or "You're not being a good Christian if you put yourself first".
• Result: Victims are pressured to stay in harmful situations to avoid being seen as "disloyal" or "selfish".

Common Characteristics of Religious Gaslighting:

• Perpetual Inadequacy: Teaching that people are inherently "filthy" or "unworthy" creates a base level of guilt that is easy to exploit.
• Denial of Experience: Asserting that the victim's memory of an event is wrong, or that their feelings are irrational.
• Shifting Goalposts: The requirements for "good" behavior constantly change, ensuring the victim is always in a state of seeking approval.

 

[BibleLover]

According to John 8​

43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot listen to* my word. 44 You are from your father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father.+ That one was a murderer when he began,+ and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.+ 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell you the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Who of you convicts me of sin?+ If I speak truth, why is it that you do not believe me? 47 The one who is from God listens to the sayings of God.+ This is why you do not listen, because you are not from God.”+

You keep forgetting that many of us here did not abandon Jehovah's house they abandoned us and they did that by using their man-made umbilical policies to quell our voices when we delivered scriptural truth to the Brothers & Sisters / Watchtower tract Society, so Bible lover you need to put yourself in check right there and stop accusing us of abandoning Jehovah's house when in reality we did not, in fact didn't the same thing happen to Robert King when he confronted the Watchtower with their false parousia ? and yet I don't see you harassing Robert King to go back to the Watchtower as to forgive and forget, so why is it that you do not tell Robert King to go back to the Watchtower tract Society? and yet you continuously harass others to do so?, I mean do you feel that he's above Jehovah's rules and regulations?, talk "about double standards"...

Now on another note concerning the Apostle Paul and what he instructed us to do in reference to idols worship whether it be literal or spiritual adultery now keep it in mind if we go back to the Watchtower we would have to conform to their man-made un biblical policies in order to be fully reinstated in other words we would have to accept the watchtowers form of worship which is false and we would have to do that by letting the watchtowers man-made umbilical policies supersede the word of Jehovah which would clearly be spiritual adultery and yet that's what you're asking us to do.
shame on you Bible lover because you sound just like Balaam trying to get us to sin against Jehovah as to lose his favor.

Now the Watchtower has certainly prove to be unclean to Jehovah and the evidence is overwhelming so I'll just follow the Apostle Paul's advice, as for everyone else they have to make their own conscious choice.​

The Second to the Corinthians 6​

17 “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”;+

Jeremiah 51​

45 Get out of her midst, my people!+

Escape for your lives*+ from the burning anger of Jehovah!+


AI Overview tidbits
That statement refers to the biblical figure Balaam, a prophet hired to curse Israel but who instead blessed them, then later advised King Balak to lure Israelites into idolatry and sexual immorality for personal gain, a classic warning against greed, false teaching, and compromising faith for money, as detailed in Numbers 22-24 and mentioned in Jude 1:11 and Revelation 2:14.
Who was Balaam?

• He was a prophet who initially tried to obey God but was swayed by greed for riches from King Balak of Moab, who wanted Israel cursed.
• God even made his donkey talk to warn him.
• When he couldn't curse Israel, he suggested they entice the Israelites to sin by inviting them to feasts with idols and sexual immorality, leading to a plague.

Why is he used as an example?

• Greed: He represents those who pursue profit over righteousness.
• False Teaching: He's a warning against leaders who mislead people for personal benefit.
• Compromising Faith: He teaches how easily one can fall when tempted by worldly rewards.

In essence, calling someone "Balaam" means accusing them of trying to lead others into sin or compromise their faith for selfish, often financial, reasons, just as Balaam did against Jehovah's people for profit.

I think several different issues are being mixed together, so it may help to clarify them calmly and separately.

First, when I speak about the timing of leaving God’s organization, I am not referring to those who were expelled for telling the truth about the wrong interpretation of prophesies as I have made clear my times. Stephen is indeed a powerful example of someone who spoke truth and suffered unjustly, and Jehovah himself vindicated him by preserving his account in Scripture (Acts 7). Likewise, no one can deny that Brother King has done extensive work in examining prophecy, and many have benefited from it. Expecting him simply to abandon that work or “go back” as if nothing happened is not realistic, nor is it what I am arguing.
My point has consistently been about voluntary departure based on personal discernment of timing, not about persecution for conscience.

Second, regarding 2 Corinthians 6, the immediate context clearly concerns separation from unbelievers and idolatrous practices, not a command to abandon God’s covenant people preemptively (2 Corinthians 6:14–15). Paul elsewhere explicitly says that Christians are not expected to separate themselves from everyone who sins or errs, otherwise “you would have to get out of the world” (1 Corinthians 5:9–10). That distinction matters.

Third, the Balaam comparison needs to be handled carefully. Balaam’s defining sin was not merely speaking, but intentionally encouraging God’s people to stumble for personal gain (Numbers 31:16; Revelation 2:14). I am not paid by anyone, nor am I urging anyone to commit idolatry. On the contrary, my concern is whether we are sometimes encouraging others to run ahead of Jehovah’s judgment rather than wait for it. In Scripture, it is Jehovah who curses or disciplines His people when the time comes—not fellow Israelites (Romans 12:19).

Fourth, John 8 deserves careful handling. Jesus was not using insults, nor was he shutting down honest discussion. He was identifying a spiritual condition. The chapter shows that the decisive test was not lineage, position, or sincerity, but whether a person was willing to continue in his word and let Scripture correct them (John 8:31–32). Those Jesus addressed had repeatedly refused to examine the truth he presented, shifted the discussion away from the issue, and ultimately attacked the messenger rather than engage the message (John 8:37, 43). That refusal—combined with hardened opposition—is what led Jesus to expose the source of their attitude by its fruit (John 8:44–47).
Applied today, John 8 is not about silencing disagreement, but about self-examination: when a scriptural point is raised, do we test it honestly like the Bereans (Acts 17:11), or do we dismiss it by attacking motives and character? Jesus’ words remind us that being “from God” is shown, not claimed—by listening, reasoning from Scripture, and allowing truth to correct us, even when it is uncomfortable.

Finally, passages like Jeremiah 51:45 and the call to “get out of her” are spoken after Jehovah has made clear that judgment has arrived and that the object of judgment is no longer his arrangement. In every biblical precedent—Jerusalem, Babylon, or Rome—Jehovah made that moment unmistakable, often using external powers to execute judgment. The question is not whether judgment will come, but who decides when it has come.

Reasonable people of conscience may arrive at different conclusions, and each one must answer to Jehovah. My appeal is simply for consistency with the biblical pattern: endurance, discernment, humility, and restraint—waiting on Jehovah to act in His time rather than assuming His role ahead of it.

 

[a believer]

At heart, the question is this: how do we know whether a decision we made was the right one, and whether Jehovah is blessing it?

I'm not going to speak for anyone else here, but I do have some thoughts on this...

First, not everything we are called to do as believers will come with certainty. Your question, "How do we know..." is a perfect example of this concerning insistence that there must be certainty before action should be taken. When Abram was called to leave Ur and all that he had come to know, he didn't know anything. He was called; he went.

The same can be seen in Noah building an ark without certainty that there would be a deluge.

And the same can be seen of those who perished in Jerusalem in 70CE simply because they insisted on being certain before being willing to take action.

The Bible seems to make itself pretty clear: "...If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning..." — Romans 14:23 New Living Translation

When a believer feels moved to leave, they are stepping out into anything except certainty. They are, instead, acting in faith, trusting that Jehovah will not abandon them for following their God-given conscience.

The apostle James, was inspired to write, "Anyone, then, who knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin." (James 4:17 BSB)

In a similar vein:

Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God, and we will receive from Him whatever we ask, because we keep His commandments and do what is pleasing in His sight. —1 John 3:21-22 BSB

So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God. —1 Corinthians 10:31 BSB

I could probably pull together additional scriptural references, if needed.

Since leaving God's organization, have I become a better Christian?

Whether you intended this or not, this statement from you suggests that a person who remains in the Watchtower organization after becoming aware of the serious issues facing the organization's leaders and— by extension— the whole association of brothers and sisters, will become a better Christian for staying. Yet the Bible is quite unapologetic when it points out, "Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.” —1 Corinthians 15:33 NWT

Having said all of that, I will agree that a person who has no upbuilding and in-person fellowship and association through the provision of a congregation will have a much more difficult go of things, and additional care and caution is required on the part of the believer because they will still render an accounting of themselves in their own day of judgment. (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:10) But, again, this comes down to faith, not membership in an organization.

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[Bk Kevin]

But Jesus said let the reader use discernment. I discerned in 2020/21, and I can't UN discern I'm not convinced I made a mistake or got the timing wrong, and after all my experiences with Jehovah over the years I'm pretty sure he'd have put me right by now, nearly 6yrs later..

That's right sister discernment is everything, and that's what Jesus told us to do use our discernment!, and you are alive and well because you heeded those warnings...by using your discernment and making a conscious choice.

 

[Goldie]

Honestly, Bible lover, you are wearing us out with the same argument over and over again. We know what the scriptures say; we're well aware of the decisions we've made and all that that entails as regards leaving the org. Salvation does not come from a man-made organization! It comes from Jehovah through Christ, so stop making Watchtower the mediator for salvation. IT IS NOT!

As far as the preaching work goes, we have the freedom to preach whenever we want and to whomever without being forced or guilted into doing it. We now do it out of our love for Jehovah, not to meet hourly requirements, and we're not chastised if we fall short.

As far as teaching the truth, it's been proven time and time again that the Watchtower is not teaching the truth. The truth isn't man-made, ever-changing, flip-flopping doctrines. It's God's word, the Bible, ONLY!

As far as cultivating the fruits of the spirit, well, that's a work in progress for all of us, including those still associated with the org. What I can say for those of us here is: we're all genuine here, not fake. Yes, there's arguing, but it gets worked out and we move on. We strive to serve Jehovah with truth, not lies and deception; we're not preaching wrong doctrines or leading people to a man-made organization, but leading people to Christ and Jehovah with spirit and, most of all, TRUTH. And I'm pretty certain that is what He expects from all of us.

 

[BibleLover]

I'm not going to speak for anyone else here, but I do have some thoughts on this...

First, not everything we are called to do as believers will come with certainty. Your question, "How do we know..." is a perfect example of this concerning insistence that there must be certainty before action should be taken. When Abram was called to leave Ur and all that he had come to know, he didn't know anything. He was called; he went.

The same can be seen in Noah building an ark without certainty that there would be a deluge.

And the same can be seen of those who perished in Jerusalem in 70CE simply because they insisted on being certain before being willing to take action.

The Bible seems to make itself pretty clear: "...If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning..." — Romans 14:23 New Living Translation

When a believer feels moved to leave, they are stepping out into anything except certainty. They are, instead, acting in faith, trusting that Jehovah will not abandon them for following their God-given conscience.

The apostle James, was inspired to write, "Anyone, then, who knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin." (James 4:17 BSB)

In a similar vein:

Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God, and we will receive from Him whatever we ask, because we keep His commandments and do what is pleasing in His sight. —1 John 3:21-22 BSB

So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God. —1 Corinthians 10:31 BSB

I could probably pull together additional scriptural references, if needed.



Whether you intended this or not, this statement from you suggests that a person who remains in the Watchtower organization after becoming aware of the serious issues facing the organization's leaders and— by extension— the whole association of brothers and sisters, will become a better Christian for staying. Yet the Bible is quite unapologetic when it points out, "Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.” —1 Corinthians 15:33 NWT

Having said all of that, I will agree that a person who has no upbuilding and in-person fellowship and association through the provision of a congregation will have a much more difficult go of things, and additional care and caution is required on the part of the believer because they will still render an accounting of themselves in their own day of judgment. (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:10) But, again, this comes down to faith, not membership in an organization.

—Timothy,
a believer.

I appreciate the emphasis on faith and conscience, but this still avoids the central issue: timing and authority.

All the examples cited—Abram leaving Ur, Noah building the ark, Christians fleeing Jerusalem—share one decisive element: Jehovah directly instructed them to act. They did not act merely because conditions were troubling or because corruption was evident. They acted because Jehovah spoke.

Scripture does not say, “Leave when corruption troubles your conscience.” Jesus was specific:

“When you catch sight of the disgusting thing standing in a holy place… then let those in Judea begin fleeing.” (Matthew 24:15–16)

The first-century Christians lived for decades under a corrupt priesthood, hypocrisy, and injustice—yet they remained until Jehovah provided a clear signal. Faith was not shown by leaving early, but by enduring uncertainty until Jehovah acted.

Appeals to conscience (Romans 14:23; James 4:17) cannot override revealed instruction. Otherwise, opposite actions—leaving early and staying—can both be labeled “faith,” which drains the term of any objective meaning. Scripture shows that Jehovah reveals His purpose before decisive action is required (Amos 3:7).

Finally, remaining in an organization that is acknowledged to be doomed also involves uncertainty. The difference is that Scripture shows Jehovah expects His people to remain until He gives direction, not to run ahead of Him.

So the question is not whether someone may leave in good conscience, but:
Where does Jehovah instruct His people to leave before He gives the signal?

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I'm not going to speak for anyone else here, but I do have some thoughts on this...

First, not everything we are called to do as believers will come with certainty. Your question, "How do we know..." is a perfect example of this concerning insistence that there must be certainty before action should be taken. When Abram was called to leave Ur and all that he had come to know, he didn't know anything. He was called; he went.

The same can be seen in Noah building an ark without certainty that there would be a deluge.

And the same can be seen of those who perished in Jerusalem in 70CE simply because they insisted on being certain before being willing to take action.

The Bible seems to make itself pretty clear: "...If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning..." — Romans 14:23 New Living Translation

When a believer feels moved to leave, they are stepping out into anything except certainty. They are, instead, acting in faith, trusting that Jehovah will not abandon them for following their God-given conscience.

The apostle James, was inspired to write, "Anyone, then, who knows the right thing to do, yet fails to do it, is guilty of sin." (James 4:17 BSB)

In a similar vein:

Beloved, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God, and we will receive from Him whatever we ask, because we keep His commandments and do what is pleasing in His sight. —1 John 3:21-22 BSB

So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all to the glory of God. —1 Corinthians 10:31 BSB

I could probably pull together additional scriptural references, if needed.



Whether you intended this or not, this statement from you suggests that a person who remains in the Watchtower organization after becoming aware of the serious issues facing the organization's leaders and— by extension— the whole association of brothers and sisters, will become a better Christian for staying. Yet the Bible is quite unapologetic when it points out, "Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits.” —1 Corinthians 15:33 NWT

Having said all of that, I will agree that a person who has no upbuilding and in-person fellowship and association through the provision of a congregation will have a much more difficult go of things, and additional care and caution is required on the part of the believer because they will still render an accounting of themselves in their own day of judgment. (cf. 2 Corinthians 5:10) But, again, this comes down to faith, not membership in an organization.

—Timothy,
a believer.

Brilliant sense.

 

[a believer]

Scripture does not say, “Leave when corruption troubles your conscience.” Jesus was specific:

“When you catch sight of the disgusting thing standing in a holy place… then let those in Judea begin fleeing.” (Matthew 24:15–16)

The first-century Christians lived for decades under a corrupt priesthood, hypocrisy, and injustice—yet they remained until Jehovah provided a clear signal. Faith was not shown by leaving early, but by enduring uncertainty until Jehovah acted.

Thank you for the follow-up, @BibleLover —

A couple thoughts here...

You mentioned Matthew 24:15-16, so we'll work from that one, if that's alright with you.

"When you catch sight of the disgusting thing standing in a holy place..."

First, this was not "a clear signal" as you suggest. Sure, it was to those who believed, but there was no certainty involved with this. The command relied solely on the observer's own understanding. After all, there were plenty of fellow Jews who were alive then, and they did not flee— presumably because they did not themselves see this taking place.

So, they perished.

Of those who "caught sight" of it, they had to be looking for it. Can you honestly say that the majority of the brothers and sisters inside the organization are, in fact, looking for "the disgusting thing standing in a holy place" within the Watchtower organization itself, or are they directed to look elsewhere?

Second, this was direction that was given by Jesus, not Jehovah Himself (cf. Hebrews 1:2). Jesus was telling his disciples that when they saw this taking place, they were to flee. Yet the only ones who needed to flee were those in Judea itself. So, the question one should be asking here is whether those who "caught sight" of it were under obligation to remain until everyone else saw it, too? If I'm understanding your argumentation here, you seem to believe this will be a collective exit, rather than individual... as if everyone together will "catch sight of it" and immediately leave as one group, and I'm not seeing the scriptural support for that.

Third, how do you know with certainty that when a fellow believer is trying to help you to understand what they are catching sight of, that this isn't the means through which Jehovah is trying to reach you? I'm reminded of an old story of an oldie but goodie:

The Drowning Man​

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.

Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, “Jump in, I can save you.”

The stranded fellow shouted back, “No, it’s OK, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me.”

So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. “The fellow in the motorboat shouted, “Jump in, I can save you.”

To this the stranded man said, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”

So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, “Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety.”

To this the stranded man again replied, “No thanks, I’m praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith.”

So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, “I had faith in you but you didn’t save me, you let me drown. I don’t understand why!”

To this God replied, “I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?”

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I appreciate the emphasis on faith and conscience, but this still avoids the central issue: timing and authority.

All the examples cited—Abram leaving Ur, Noah building the ark, Christians fleeing Jerusalem—share one decisive element: Jehovah directly instructed them to act. They did not act merely because conditions were troubling or because corruption was evident. They acted because Jehovah spoke.

Scripture does not say, “Leave when corruption troubles your conscience.” Jesus was specific:

“When you catch sight of the disgusting thing standing in a holy place… then let those in Judea begin fleeing.” (Matthew 24:15–16)

The first-century Christians lived for decades under a corrupt priesthood, hypocrisy, and injustice—yet they remained until Jehovah provided a clear signal. Faith was not shown by leaving early, but by enduring uncertainty until Jehovah acted.

Appeals to conscience (Romans 14:23; James 4:17) cannot override revealed instruction. Otherwise, opposite actions—leaving early and staying—can both be labeled “faith,” which drains the term of any objective meaning. Scripture shows that Jehovah reveals His purpose before decisive action is required (Amos 3:7).

Finally, remaining in an organization that is acknowledged to be doomed also involves uncertainty. The difference is that Scripture shows Jehovah expects His people to remain until He gives direction, not to run ahead of Him.

So the question is not whether someone may leave in good conscience, but:
Where does Jehovah instruct His people to leave before He gives the signal?

So many quotes, so little substance. It’s a common trait seen within watchtower: rhetoric but without substance. It’s not a good thing to excel in. It’s sterile. Has no beneficial outcome above control of the unwary.

The bible speaks to the heart. It’s not a dictionary of terms, rules and regulations, but of absorption of the Spirit, its application, its living attributes. This is why everyone is judged as individuals. Standards must be understood to be adhered to, felt within the heart, reasoned within the conscience and found to be honourable and worthy. Of value.

Someone said the other day - sorry, forget whom it was - that there was no requirement for the Bible before Adam sinned, no pathway to redemption set out: every facet of living was there to be appreciated, explained, and it’s outworking seen through learning through experience and in the natural course of the obedient soul to instruction. As with any child: bring it up according to the way and it will not turn aside from it.

Bible Quotes without substance? This is why Christ chose parables to teach because it gives meaning that is felt within the heart and people can relate to it personally and with understanding.