Jehovah's Witnesses ease rules on blood transfusions

[Watchman]

I had a Brother come up to me ( I don't know why me ) after the meeting looking visibly upset and said "I can't get my head around this. Why now?" I didn't launch into any explanations, just listened and showed my concern for his feelings. But at the same time I wondered how many others were thinking the same thing but not willing to express their feelings. Probably there will be some direction from the so called F&DS to the Elders on how to adjust the Medical directive card as I don't think that it is acceptable to just cross through the wording. It is a kind of legal document so any changes should be done with it being witnessed. I could be wrong of course, but I think that is the case. I'm sure there must be a new directive in the works that reflects the changes and there will be instructions on how to sign it etc. as well as ditching the printed copies of any brochures that contradict the "new light". Digital copies can be changed easily. But we shall see how much this affects the B&S . Just like the Beards/ Clinking glasses/ no tie/ slacks OK changes have been gradually accepted and no no one really bothers talking about those adjustments any more probably this change will eventually be accepted and move on. But the ramifications of this change do have a greater impact on what "choices" were allowed in the past and that might be difficult for some to come to terms with, if at all.

The GB's new position on stored blood is the right decision. Not that storing or not storing is right or wrong. The GB had no scriptural authority to ban or approve of such a procedure in the first place. Now they have come to the light. It is up to each individual to determine before their God. And because the present GB is now trying to distance itself from the Pharisaical rulings of its predecessors, it is causing a stir among some. And why? Because the only religion some JW's know is the Watchtower. Where does God factor in?

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

I had a Brother come up to me ( I don't know why me ) after the meeting looking visibly upset and said "I can't get my head around this. Why now?" I didn't launch into any explanations, just listened and showed my concern for his feelings. But at the same time I wondered how many others were thinking the same thing but not willing to express their feelings. Probably there will be some direction from the so called F&DS to the Elders on how to adjust the Medical directive card as I don't think that it is acceptable to just cross through the wording. It is a kind of legal document so any changes should be done with it being witnessed. I could be wrong of course, but I think that is the case. I'm sure there must be a new directive in the works that reflects the changes and there will be instructions on how to sign it etc. as well as ditching the printed copies of any brochures that contradict the "new light". Digital copies can be changed easily. But we shall see how much this affects the B&S . Just like the Beards/ Clinking glasses/ no tie/ slacks OK changes have been gradually accepted and no no one really bothers talking about those adjustments any more probably this change will eventually be accepted and move on. But the ramifications of this change do have a greater impact on what "choices" were allowed in the past and that might be difficult for some to come to terms with, if at all.

I know, I was being facetious when I said we weren't even told to "cross out" anything on their blood cards!! Which actually would have been a whole lot better than saying the nothing at all. They could have at least had new cards ready for anyone who's happy to go along with the GB's latest decision and anyone who doesn't like the new decision could hang on to their old ones. There was probably a lot of confusion in all the congregations. I'm so glad I've never, ever wanted anyone else's blood or guts put into my body, just the thought of it is so repulsive to me that all the changes on blood have never affected me personally.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I had a Brother come up to me ( I don't know why me ) after the meeting looking visibly upset and said "I can't get my head around this. Why now?" I didn't launch into any explanations, just listened and showed my concern for his feelings. But at the same time I wondered how many others were thinking the same thing but not willing to express their feelings. Probably there will be some direction from the so called F&DS to the Elders on how to adjust the Medical directive card as I don't think that it is acceptable to just cross through the wording. It is a kind of legal document so any changes should be done with it being witnessed. I could be wrong of course, but I think that is the case. I'm sure there must be a new directive in the works that reflects the changes and there will be instructions on how to sign it etc. as well as ditching the printed copies of any brochures that contradict the "new light". Digital copies can be changed easily. But we shall see how much this affects the B&S . Just like the Beards/ Clinking glasses/ no tie/ slacks OK changes have been gradually accepted and no no one really bothers talking about those adjustments any more probably this change will eventually be accepted and move on. But the ramifications of this change do have a greater impact on what "choices" were allowed in the past and that might be difficult for some to come to terms with, if at all.

I would imagine that the brother spoke with you because he recognises your insight and presentation as it comes across here. People recognise humility and maturity. Not only that but they recognise independent maturity in understanding the word and the authority that has over company directed elders. This in turn makes for a safe harbour for people who want to express an opinion that may be controversial, as they know they have a listening, impartial ear that does not immediately condemn the inquiring mind. It is a compliment to your faith and insight.

It is a sad reflection that such people have to seek out a listening ear, but it is also an indicator of the circumstances watchtower are sinking into rapidly that the sheep still recognise each other - and thus that one is recognised as such is rather heartwarming for you.

I find it very sad inwardly that the sister whom @Proverbs 14 v 15 pointed out, shut down her attendance link after that off-hand announcement by an elder. It’s indicative of how the elders are walking roughshod over the feelings and sensitivities of the brethren. Their behaviour is indicative of their lack of compassion, drained from them by their blind obedience to the diktat of watchtower’s “Jehovah says so, so get on with it” attitude. They have no love for the flock. Thus, the flock turn to those that listen to their concerns. That’s a wonderful purpose Jehovah has given you when one stops to think it through. A safe heart with which to discuss the Word.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

I would imagine that the brother spoke with you because he recognises your insight and presentation as it comes across here. People recognise humility and maturity. Not only that but they recognise independent maturity in understanding the word and the authority that has over company directed elders. This in turn makes for a safe harbour for people who want to express an opinion that may be controversial, as they know they have a listening, impartial ear that does not immediately condemn the inquiring mind. It is a compliment to your faith and insight.

It is a sad reflection that such people have to seek out a listening ear, but it is also an indicator of the circumstances watchtower are sinking into rapidly that the sheep still recognise each other - and thus that one is recognised as such is rather heartwarming for you.

I find it very sad inwardly that the sister whom @Proverbs 14 v 15 pointed out, shut down her attendance link after that off-hand announcement by an elder. It’s indicative of how the elders are walking roughshod over the feelings and sensitivities of the brethren. Their behaviour is indicative of their lack of compassion, drained from them by their blind obedience to the diktat of watchtower’s “Jehovah says so, so get on with it” attitude. They have no love for the flock. Thus, the flock turn to those that listen to their concerns. That’s a wonderful purpose Jehovah has given you when one stops to think it through. A safe heart with which to discuss the Word.

And hopefully, more and more will have second thoughts concerning obeying more of the "strange instructions" to come

 

[Niobium]

I know, I was being facetious when I said we weren't even told to "cross out" anything on their blood cards!! Which actually would have been a whole lot better than saying the nothing at all. They could have at least had new cards ready for anyone who's happy to go along with the GB's latest decision and anyone who doesn't like the new decision could hang on to their old ones. There was probably a lot of confusion in all the congregations. I'm so glad I've never, ever wanted anyone else's blood or guts put into my body, just the thought of it is so repulsive to me that all the changes on blood have never affected me personally.

Yes I get that. I have a similar aversion to Blood transfusion and organ transplants. It does not seem "natural" to me.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

Yes I get that. I have a similar aversion to Blood transfusion and organ transplants. It does not seem "natural" to me.

Not at all, very demonic and Frankensteinesque! That's why the powers that be are so obsessed with blood!
Actually, most people seem obsessed with blood from one angle or t'other.. and now the GB are swinging the pendulum the other way too, they're up to no good I tell ya!!

 

[Niobium]

Not at all, very demonic and Frankensteinesque! That's why the powers that be are so obsessed with blood!
Actually, most people seem obsessed with blood from one angle or t'other.. and now the GB are swinging the pendulum the other way too, they're up to no good I tell ya!!

Indeed. It seems that there is a power struggle going on in the GB ranks. Maybe it all started when Tony Morris was unceremoniously ousted for whatever reasons which are purely speculation, but I'm sure there was more to it than just his personal problem that seemed to be getting the better of him. Losch seemed quite uncomfortable giving the update and maybe was coerced into giving it somehow. Perhaps we are seeing the emergence of the wicked slave? Just like in Satan's case wickedness is cloaked in supposed goodness. Of course I'm just speculating and I'm sure a lot of others on this forum have a much better handle on what is happening than I do. But something is going to give eventually. Jehovah will see to that.

 

[SusanB]

Out of interest this is still on the digital copy of the " Blood Brochure " How can blood save your life? 1990

Page 27
Witnesses believe that blood removed from the body should be disposed of, so they do not accept autotransfusion of predeposited blood. Techniques for intraoperative collection or hemodilution that involve blood storage are objectionable to them. However, many Witnesses permit the use of dialysis and heart-lung equipment (non-blood-prime) as well as intraoperative salvage where the extracorporeal circulation is uninterrupted; the physician should consult with the individual patient as to what his conscience dictates.⁠

When it’s your idol, you cannot be rational.

 

[BrooksB]

Perhaps we are seeing the emergence of the wicked slave?

It is indeed a great question. I am of the mind that the wicked slave has been developed and operating at a fairly significant level in the Watchtower Organization for a number of decades now. It took a while for them to collect a data base of many thousands of child abusers (think Barbara Anderson's expose and Silent Lambs here) along with the NGO scandal that was uncovered and then subsequently covered up decades ago. Just thinking outloud here Niobium.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Indeed. It seems that there is a power struggle going on in the GB ranks. Maybe it all started when Tony Morris was unceremoniously ousted for whatever reasons which are purely speculation, but I'm sure there was more to it than just his personal problem that seemed to be getting the better of him. Losch seemed quite uncomfortable giving the update and maybe was coerced into giving it somehow. Perhaps we are seeing the emergence of the wicked slave? Just like in Satan's case wickedness is cloaked in supposed goodness. Of course I'm just speculating and I'm sure a lot of others on this forum have a much better handle on what is happening than I do. But something is going to give eventually. Jehovah will see to that.

I don’t know what’s going to happen either re: the evil slave - other than I don’t want be one! But if there is one thing about watchtower that I have learnt is that it can only be dispassionately viewed from the outside with understanding and only then, by those that have been in it. It’s also mandatory to be in it to be an evil slave! I wonder if being Disfellowshipped like Tony releases him from that charge even if repentant, assuming he was part of it in the first place. Even if the GB are simply administrators to a greater evil, can they really not know when one considers the things that they come out with. The recent recanting in blood storage being just one example, before we even consider the vax scandal.

I feel certain that whatever their folly that their judgement will be correct. When one considers how being a life long witness affects the conceptual understanding of the world and its creation; the reality of Jehovah, and the ethics of faith and understanding the Spirit, it is no small matter how it affects the mind.

My sister was a witness before I was and though she is as stubborn as a mule when it comes to arguing the Bible, she is as blind as a bat when it comes to reasoning. One has to be alive to the apostasy to be part of it. Surely that is the issue. Blind stubbornness may cause someone to loose out, but Jehovah is the source of mercy. Knowingly grieving the spirit is different.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

I don’t know what’s going to happen either re: the evil slave - other than I don’t want be one! But if there is one thing about watchtower that I have learnt is that it can only be dispassionately viewed from the outside with understanding and only then, by those that have been in it. It’s also mandatory to be in it to be an evil slave! I wonder if being Disfellowshipped like Tony releases him from that charge even if repentant, assuming he was part of it in the first place. Even if the GB are simply administrators to a greater evil, can they really not know when one considers the things that they come out with. The recent recanting in blood storage being just one example, before we even consider the vax scandal.

I feel certain that whatever their folly that their judgement will be correct. When one considers how being a life long witness affects the conceptual understanding of the world and its creation; the reality of Jehovah, and the ethics of faith and understanding the Spirit, it is no small matter how it affects the mind.

My sister was a witness before I was and though she is as stubborn as a mule when it comes to arguing the Bible, she is as blind as a bat when it comes to reasoning. One has to be alive to the apostasy to be part of it. Surely that is the issue. Blind stubbornness may cause someone to loose out, but Jehovah is the source of mercy. Knowingly grieving the spirit is different.

I suppose for that scripture about even the chosen ones (who are mostly INSIDE the org?) could be deceived, then I suppose the deceitful thing must come from the Watchtower itself, due to the chosen ones looking to the GB for guidance and instructions. If the deceitful thing was going to be produced in the world, BY the world then there wouldn't be much chance of the chosen ones being deceived as they're not even looking to the world for anything much other than stuff like the "cry of peace and security", religion being banned, etc etc Just thinking out loud here, my hubby says I think too much

 

[Nomex]

And why? Because the only religion some JW's know is the Watchtower. Where does God factor in?

The answer to this question, or I should say when I learned this truth, this was the biggest "ah-ha" moment for me I think I have ever had. I have always understood we each individually stand before Jehovah to be judged. Individually. And I think one of the biggest reveals is how so many JW's responded to the vaccine who did NOT want that vaccine, when it became apparent the GB were telling people what a "good JW would do in this situation, after all 99% of Bethel got vaccinated, and they are the best of the good JW's" You know one of those "unspoken messages" but that is NOT the reaction I am speaking of, it's their justification for going against their own conscience, and taking a medicine they would not have taken otherwise, by saying things like, "well if I die I'll be resurrected."

Which is exactly what my brother told me, and others have told me they heard the same from ones they know, and we all know that is 100% how most JW's felt! But that flippant disregard for the sanctity of life, that's the reveal! But I think that disregard may prove to be a hallmark of many JW's going forward. I hope I'm wrong, but like you said, it seems they are more and more the GB are trying to distance themselves from any accountability. Which of course they have always done that.


But when I really understood why these things in the congregation were really going on, it was a huge weight off my shoulders, and a clarification for me of my understanding, although being only a partial understanding before of what was going on but also a relief to learn this understanding and more importantly, why! Why, these things were taking place "inside Jehovah's Organization."

Because most JW's serve WT, NOT Jehovah! And Jehovah is going to make each of us reveal who we actually follow!

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

it's their justification for going against their own conscience, and taking a medicine they would not have taken otherwise, by saying things like, "well if I die I'll be resurrected.

We might aswell all just get it over and done with now then??!! I'm sure many of us would prefer a nice long sleep over this blooming nightmare we're having to live through! People say some stupid things don't they?

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

The GB's new position on stored blood is the right decision. Not that storing or not storing is right or wrong. The GB had no scriptural authority to ban or approve of such a procedure in the first place. Now they have come to the light. It is up to each individual to determine before their God. And because the present GB is now trying to distance itself from the Pharisaical rulings of its predecessors, it is causing a stir among some. And why? Because the only religion some JW's know is the Watchtower. Where does God factor in?

You could say that about anything, smoking, drinking alcohol, taking drugs (both kinds) having someone else's blood inside you, or their organs, watching stuff on TV that's not good for us etc etc etc. The Bible says enough about what Jehovah approves of, or disapproves of, or that will benefit us or damage us mentally, emotionally, physically or spiritually, for us to be able to work things out ourselves. I think that's where the GB are heading..

 

[Rette]

I know, I was being facetious when I said we weren't even told to "cross out" anything on their blood cards!! Which actually would have been a whole lot better than saying the nothing at all. They could have at least had new cards ready for anyone who's happy to go along with the GB's latest decision and anyone who doesn't like the new decision could hang on to their old ones. There was probably a lot of confusion in all the congregations. I'm so glad I've never, ever wanted anyone else's blood or guts put into my body, just the thought of it is so repulsive to me that all the changes on blood have never affected me personally.

i view taking someone elses blood or organs as cannabalism - most people are disgusted by eating blood and human body parts but seem accepting when they are done medically by operations etc. and it amazes me that there is so much disgust with the exposure of the elite and entertainers orally doing this but dont have a problem doing it through medical procedures

 

[Rette]

Because most JW's serve WT, NOT Jehovah! And Jehovah is going to make each of us reveal who we actually follow!

yes, we have to take personal responsibility of our own conscience before God - that was my biggest lesson with in the organization and out of it as well - i found it difficult to operate like that in the organization although i still value my time and bible knowledge i gained there

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

i view taking someone elses blood or organs as cannabalism - most people are disgusted by eating blood and human body parts but seem accepting when they are done medically by operations etc. and it amazes me that there is so much disgust with the exposure of the elite and entertainers orally doing this but dont have a problem doing it through medical procedures

Agree

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

i view taking someone elses blood or organs as cannabalism - most people are disgusted by eating blood and human body parts but seem accepting when they are done medically by operations etc. and it amazes me that there is so much disgust with the exposure of the elite and entertainers orally doing this but dont have a problem doing it through medical procedures

You make an interesting point: the more shallow the insight into the Word and thus its reach into the meditative mind to expand its reasoning, makes it all the more easy is it to be misled. Watchtower adherents are quite happy in these days to allow the gb to monitor their minds and conscience. On the other hand, the more introspective we are, the more there is to reason upon. Does therefore the principle of blood include organs which are necessary to sustain the life represented by blood? Does one draw the line at identical twins? Why is the sanctity and ownership rights only stated in the blood?

The depths of the Holy Spirit demand a deep understanding not only in fact and principle, but in personal concept of what actually is required. Blood represents life and one can see why, for it touches ever last cell in the body. But as far as meat goes, from animals - its blood you shall not eat. The rest of it is largely choice. On principle then, where stands the priorities upon conjoined twins and skin grafts? Would one severely burnt accept someone’s skin to save their life? The skin being also designated as an organ of the body - in fact, the largest of them all.

It’s such an interesting point to raise and it demonstrates how critical it is to explore the depths of the Holy Spirit and that it is not just a yes and no answer as watchtower treats it, but one of critical understanding of the Spirit. It reminds me also of principles in values. If we consider social laws going back a hundred years or so, there was no welfare for families. If the head of the household died then there was no income and families were shredded in the provision of work houses, child labour and unspeakable abuses. We have the luxury in these days to contemplate our conscience without the impingement of responsibility to others and their welfare. How far does sacrificing one’s life extend by staying alive, impinge upon the welfare of others? Hence somehow we must make sure of our understanding. I shall be thinking about this all day …….

 

[Rette]

the skin grafting procedure crossed my mind too - i suppose thats where conscience comes into it - not every detail of right and wrong is written down and the world in general desensitizes our aceptance of many things

i was holidaying in Vanuatu a few years ago and went on a tour, when we were lunching the tour guide told us that before the missionaries arrived he would be having us for lunch

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

You make an interesting point: the more shallow the insight into the Word and thus its reach into the meditative mind to expand its reasoning, makes it all the more easy is it to be misled. Watchtower adherents are quite happy in these days to allow the gb to monitor their minds and conscience. On the other hand, the more introspective we are, the more there is to reason upon. Does therefore the principle of blood include organs which are necessary to sustain the life represented by blood? Does one draw the line at identical twins? Why is the sanctity and ownership rights only stated in the blood?

The depths of the Holy Spirit demand a deep understanding not only in fact and principle, but in personal concept of what actually is required. Blood represents life and one can see why, for it touches ever last cell in the body. But as far as meat goes, from animals - its blood you shall not eat. The rest of it is largely choice. On principle then, where stands the priorities upon conjoined twins and skin grafts? Would one severely burnt accept someone’s skin to save their life? The skin being also designated as an organ of the body - in fact, the largest of them all.

It’s such an interesting point to raise and it demonstrates how critical it is to explore the depths of the Holy Spirit and that it is not just a yes and no answer as watchtower treats it, but one of critical understanding of the Spirit. It reminds me also of principles in values. If we consider social laws going back a hundred years or so, there was no welfare for families. If the head of the household died then there was no income and families were shredded in the provision of work houses, child labour and unspeakable abuses. We have the luxury in these days to contemplate our conscience without the impingement of responsibility to others and their welfare. How far does sacrificing one’s life extend by staying alive, impinge upon the welfare of others? Hence somehow we must make sure of our understanding. I shall be thinking about this all day …….

The way I've always seen it Barney, even waaay before I studied the Bible, there's only so much we can do to stave off the inevitable. As soon as we're born we're dying. Some people live to a hundred years, others only a hundred days. In the grand scheme of things both of them are just the blink of an eye. The only benefit in living a few years longer than the next person is there's a few more opportunities to learn about the "real" life. Life in this system is not the be all or the end all of everything. I sound like a bit of a mean mare but I'm not really I'm just a realist

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

the skin grafting procedure crossed my mind too - i suppose thats where conscience comes into it - not every detail of right and wrong is written down and the world in general desensitizes our aceptance of many things

i was holidaying in Vanuatu a few years ago and went on a tour, when we were lunching the tour guide told us that before the missionaries arrived he would be having us for lunch

Yes, missionaries are far tastier than the general population. I can quite understand his preference. It’s suggested that it’s due to the amount of wine they drink at communion, especially those sent from the Vatican.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

The way I've always seen it Barney, even waaay before I studied the Bible, there's only so much we can do to stave off the inevitable. As soon as we're born we're dying. Some people live to a hundred years, others only a hundred days. In the grand scheme of things both of them are just the blink of an eye. The only benefit in living a few years longer than the next person is there's a few more opportunities to learn about the "real" life. Life in this system is not the be all or the end all of everything. I sound like a bit of a mean mare but I'm not really I'm just a realist

It’s true. I was still skate boarding at 92. I must admit I gave up being a realist - It was too much to face down every day so I became a theorist studying the consequences of getting out of bed in the morning. I decided it was best to stay put in the end analysis but then the urge to go skateboarding became too much for me and I became a fantasist. It’s stood me well thus far. There is an undeniable benefit to living longer but no one has found it out why that might be so far because no one has managed it yet. You would need to become a futurist to accomplish that. Then at least you could see it coming, but in the end it will inevitably make you a defeatist to find out.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

It’s true. I was still skate boarding at 92. I must admit I gave up being a realist - It was too much to face down every day so I became a theorist studying the consequences of getting out of bed in the morning. I decided it was best to stay put in the end analysis but then the urge to go skateboarding became too much for me and I became a fantasist. It’s stood me well thus far. There is an undeniable benefit to living longer but no one has found it out why that might be so far because no one has managed it yet. You would need to become a futurist to accomplish that. Then at least you could see it coming, but in the end it will inevitably make you a defeatist to find out.

You can always get some of those "meta" glasses, then you can skateboard till your heart's content, without moving a muscle

 

[Rette]

Yes, missionaries are far tastier than the general population. I can quite understand his preference. It’s suggested that it’s due to the amount of wine they drink at communion, especially those sent from the Vatican.

haha - the thing is the missionaries arrived with a gun and a bible so that put a stop to lunch menu haha