Jesus being a creation

SkinnyAndShort

Active member
I am in a debate on one of Roberts YouTube videos with a guy about if Jesus was created or not. Is it not more than clear reading Colo 1:15 and Rev 3:14 that Jesus was created? I don't believe this guy believes in the trinity, he just says Jesus came out of God and so was not created like Eve came out of Adam so she was not created...

Colo 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation
Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
I am in a debate on one of Roberts YouTube videos with a guy about if Jesus was created or not. Is it not more than clear reading Colo 1:15 and Rev 3:14 that Jesus was created? I don't believe this guy believes in the trinity, he just says Jesus came out of God and so was not created like Eve came out of Adam so she was not created...

Colo 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation
Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God
Jesus did come out of God the bible literally describes it like a pregnancy so Jesus is unique more Jehovah-like than the rest of the angels but he is not at all coeternal or coequal as Arius said there was a once (time) when the son was not. (Didn't exist yet)

It could just be he's attached to some stock phrases trinitarians like that people can hold without being trinitarian. Is he saying things like begotten not created or begotten not made? The former is wrong because Jesus is the firstborn of creation but if made is interpreted as manufactured/assembled like a Lego set or something than yes Jesus probably wasn't made in that sort of sense.
 
Last edited:

SkinnyAndShort

Active member
Jesus did come out of God the bible literally describes it like a pregnancy so Jesus is unique more Jehovah-like than the rest of the angels but he is not at all coeternal or coequal as Arius said there was a once (time) when the son was not. (Didn't exist yet)

It could just be he's attached to some stock phrases trinitarians like that people can hold without being trinitarian. Is he saying things like begotten not created or begotten not made? The former is wrong because Jesus is the firstborn of creation but if made is interpreted as manufactured/assembled like a Lego set or something than yes Jesus probably wasn't made in that sort of sense.
While I do agree that Jesus was created in a special way or different way then the angels, nonetheless Jesus was still created. As you quoted from Arius, at one time Jesus did not exist so he had to be created.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
Check out the commentary on the June 2nd & 4th post. The articles might be of help!
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
The Jews in Jesus' day did not believe Jesus had no beginning. They believed Jesus was the son of Joseph and Mary and no more. The Devil has a lie for everyone at every time. Jesus didn't waste too much time trying to convince them he was Jehovah's Son. Like he told them, "you are not my sheep."
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
I am in a debate on one of Roberts YouTube videos with a guy about if Jesus was created or not. Is it not more than clear reading Colo 1:15 and Rev 3:14 that Jesus was created? I don't believe this guy believes in the trinity, he just says Jesus came out of God and so was not created like Eve came out of Adam so she was not created...

Colo 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation
Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God
@SkinnyAndShort

Here’s how I understand it, taken from the Insight book: “The apostle John describes Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. ( John 1:14,3:16,18) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Lo’gos or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (John 1:1,2; 17:5,24) At that time while in his pre-human state of existence, he is described as the “only begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.” 1 John 4:9)

He is described as having “a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father,” the one residing “in the bosom position with the Father.” ( John 1:14,18) It is hard to think of a more closer, more confidential, or more loving and tender relationship between a father and his son than this.

The angels of heaven are sons of God even as Adam was a “son of God.” (Gen. 6:2; Job 1:6;38:7; Luke 3:38) But the Lo‘gos, later called Jesus, is “the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:18) He is the ONLY ONE of of his kind, the only one whom God himself created directly without the agency or cooperation of any creature. He is the only one whom God his Father used in bringing into existence all other creatures. He is the firstborn and chief one among all other angels ( Col. 1:15,16; Heb. 1:5,6) which angels the Scriptures call “godlike ones” or “gods.” ( Ps. 8:4,5) Therefore, according to some of the oldest and best manuscripts, the Lord Jesus Christ is properly described as “the only begotten god [ Gr. mo-no-ge-nes’-the-os’]“ John 1:18
 

SkinnyAndShort

Active member
@SkinnyAndShort

Here’s how I understand it, taken from the Insight book: “The apostle John describes Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. ( John 1:14,3:16,18) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Lo’gos or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (John 1:1,2; 17:5,24) At that time while in his pre-human state of existence, he is described as the “only begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.” 1 John 4:9)

He is described as having “a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father,” the one residing “in the bosom position with the Father.” ( John 1:14,18) It is hard to think of a more closer, more confidential, or more loving and tender relationship between a father and his son than this.

The angels of heaven are sons of God even as Adam was a “son of God.” (Gen. 6:2; Job 1:6;38:7; Luke 3:38) But the Lo‘gos, later called Jesus, is “the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:18) He is the ONLY ONE of of his kind, the only one whom God himself created directly without the agency or cooperation of any creature. He is the only one whom God his Father used in bringing into existence all other creatures. He is the firstborn and chief one among all other angels ( Col. 1:15,16; Heb. 1:5,6) which angels the Scriptures call “godlike ones” or “gods.” ( Ps. 8:4,5) Therefore, according to some of the oldest and best manuscripts, the Lord Jesus Christ is properly described as “the only begotten god [ Gr. mo-no-ge-nes’-the-os’]“ John 1:18
Yes exactly what you said is how I understand it! Jesus was still created but in a special way like no other.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
@SkinnyAndShort

Here’s how I understand it, taken from the Insight book: “The apostle John describes Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. ( John 1:14,3:16,18) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Lo’gos or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (John 1:1,2; 17:5,24) At that time while in his pre-human state of existence, he is described as the “only begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.” 1 John 4:9)

He is described as having “a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father,” the one residing “in the bosom position with the Father.” ( John 1:14,18) It is hard to think of a more closer, more confidential, or more loving and tender relationship between a father and his son than this.

The angels of heaven are sons of God even as Adam was a “son of God.” (Gen. 6:2; Job 1:6;38:7; Luke 3:38) But the Lo‘gos, later called Jesus, is “the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:18) He is the ONLY ONE of of his kind, the only one whom God himself created directly without the agency or cooperation of any creature. He is the only one whom God his Father used in bringing into existence all other creatures. He is the firstborn and chief one among all other angels ( Col. 1:15,16; Heb. 1:5,6) which angels the Scriptures call “godlike ones” or “gods.” ( Ps. 8:4,5) Therefore, according to some of the oldest and best manuscripts, the Lord Jesus Christ is properly described as “the only begotten god [ Gr. mo-no-ge-nes’-the-os’]“ John 1:18
The Ufilas (semi-arian) creed of the unitarian goths is in harmony with this kind of referencing how Jehovah in Daniel is called the God of "gods"

I, Ulfila, bishop and confessor, have always so believed, and in this, the one true faith, I make the journey to my Lord; I believe in one God the Father, the only unbegotten and invisible, and in his only-begotten son, our Lord and God, the designer and maker of all creation, having none other like him (so that one alone among all beings is God the Father, who is also the God of our God); and in one Holy Spirit, the illuminating and sanctifying power, as Christ said after his resurrection to his apostles: "And behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you; but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be clothed with power from on high" (Luke 24:49) and again "But ye shall receive power, when the Holy Ghost is come upon you" (Acts 1:8); being neither God (the Father) nor our God (Christ), but the minister of Christ subject and obedient in all things to the Son; and the Son, subject and obedient in all things to God who is his Father.
 

BillyRay

Well-known member
I don't believe this guy believes in the trinity, he just says Jesus came out of God and so was not created like Eve came out of Adam so she was not created...
“Came out of God”? Or created by God? Do they mean the same thing? I believe that the scriptures already cited in this thread should be more than enough to answer that question.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
“Came out of God”? Or created by God? Do they mean the same thing? I believe that the scriptures already cited in this thread should be more than enough to answer that question.
Yep. He did come out of God but nothing about that disqualifies him from the category of being a creation. Scripture makes it clear he's still a creation.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Yep. He did come out of God but nothing about that disqualifies him from the category of being a creation. Scripture makes it clear he's still a creation.
@The God Pill 👍🏼 Exactly!

Colossians 1:15-18
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist, and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might become the one who is first in all things.”

This is one of the scriptures I would use to try and reason with those who would let me prove to them from the Bible that Jesus was the son. Scriptures clearly show Jesus was a creation.
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
Some people are just going to struggle with this concept. Usually it's because they are trying to make Jesus into Jehovah. Even though many have heard God's name, I don't think it really clicks for them until they are ready to accept that God created a spirit son. You'll spin circles until they're ready. For me, it wasn't a problem. My church attendance was hit and miss growing up and I always understood them to be separate since nobody was there to confuse me. Trinity wasn't something talked about in my house growing up.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Some people are just going to struggle with this concept. Usually it's because they are trying to make Jesus into Jehovah. Even though many have heard God's name, I don't think it really clicks for them until they are ready to accept that God created a spirit son. You'll spin circles until they're ready. For me, it wasn't a problem. My church attendance was hit and miss growing up and I always understood them to be separate since nobody was there to confuse me. Trinity wasn't something talked about in my house growing up.
@BagdadBill

Me too, I was baptized ( a baby) as a Catholic and had zilch knowledge about the Bible. I learned some from religious movies but it never made sense to me that God could be the father and the son.

My questions wasn’t answered until I started studying, when I was 24 years old, to me it all made perfect sense. And of course I still believe that.

I also believe that people who hold on to that teaching are described at 2 Thessalonians 10:4,5 “For the weapons of our warfare are not fleshly, but powerful by God for overturning STRONGLY ENTRENCHED THINGS. For we are overturning reasonings and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are bringing every thought into captivity to make it obedient to the Christ.”

A sister shared this with me years ago to answer the question about why some can’t let go of their strong religious beliefs.
Makes perfect sense to me.
 
Last edited:

LuisMerino9412

Active member
I am in a debate on one of Roberts YouTube videos with a guy about if Jesus was created or not. Is it not more than clear reading Colo 1:15 and Rev 3:14 that Jesus was created? I don't believe this guy believes in the trinity, he just says Jesus came out of God and so was not created like Eve came out of Adam so she was not created...

Colo 1:15 who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation
Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God
They will find anything to justify their belief. It's nonsense like Robert has said. Haha 😂😂😂😬🙄😒 But it seems that they do not care that it does not make any sense. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Top