Jezebel and Babylon the Great

No. Jezebel is an apostate cult in Christ's congregation. That is why Jesus said: "And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds."

It is not even that the Jezebel cult commits overt immorality. As Jesus said, he will execute judgment upon her children based on their inner thoughts and hearts. It is interesting that Jesus noted that Jezebel calls herself a prophetess. Obviously, her claim is false. But doesn't the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses also claim to be a prophet? And is not the very foundation of the organization based on falsehood? Also, do not Jehovah's Witnesses refer to the organization as their mother? That means that their spiritual mother claims to be a prophetess.

The prophetess claims that Babylon the Great will be destroyed during the tribulation. In fact, the prophetess has prophesied that the tribulation begins when the UN turns upon organized religion. But according to Jesus, it is the Jezebel cult within his congregation that will experience the great tribulation: "Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds." That harmonizes with what Jesus said regarding the disgusting thing standing in a holy place and Jerusalem experiencing the great tibulation, Jerusalem, of course, represents Christ's congregation.
 
Watchman said:
Jezebel is an apostate cult in Christ's congregation.
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So, what is the difference in the "man of lawlessness" and the Jezebels? Are the "Jezebels", more or less, the followers whereas the "man of lawlessness" is the leaders?
e-watchman.com

You tolerate that woman Jezebel

Tuesday, May 11 It is enough! Now, O Jehovah, take my life away. —1 Ki. 19:4. Elijah became afraid when Queen Jezebel threatened to kill him. So he fled to the area of Beer-sheba. He became so discouraged that “he asked that he might die.” What made him feel
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"However, the sexual immorality promoted by the “Christian” Jezebel does not necessarily involve literal adultery or fornication on the part of those who tolerate her. Idolatry has many forms. It can take the form of worshipping an organization that protects pedophiles from prosecution; essentially, tolerating a form of child sacrifice."
 
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Jerry&Phyllis said:
So, what is the difference in the "man of lawlessness" and the Jezebels? Are the "Jezebels", more or less, the followers whereas the "man of lawlessness" is the leaders?
e-watchman.com

You tolerate that woman Jezebel

Tuesday, May 11 It is enough! Now, O Jehovah, take my life away. —1 Ki. 19:4. Elijah became afraid when Queen Jezebel threatened to kill him. So he fled to the area of Beer-sheba. He became so discouraged that “he asked that he might die.” What made him feel
e-watchman.com e-watchman.com
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Yes. That makes sense. It is interesting that in Jesus' messages to the seven congregations, there is no mention of the man of lawlessness. And yet Paul described the man of lawlessness as a Judas-like figure who sits in the temple of God. But, obviously, Jezebel promotes lawlessness in the form of idolatry. It is noteworthy that Jesus said he would execute those committing adultery with her, with Jezebel. So, we are talking about spiritual adultery. No doubt, committing adultery with Jezebel involves idolizing the organization and those who do not repent will be judged during the tribulation because before the tribulation the disgusting thing will appear as a signal to flee the organization. Those who do not will be exposed as idolaters.
 
Watchman said:
So, we are talking about spiritual adultery. No doubt, committing adultery with Jezebel involves idolizing the organization and those who do not repent will be judged during the tribulation because before the tribulation the disgusting thing will appear as a signal to flee the organization. Those who do not will be exposed as idolaters.
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Thank you very much. The statement above even helped us to better understand the why the door to salvation is closed by the end of the GT.
Still don't totally understand why the 3 1/2 yrs. that follows is termed the Hour of Test?
 
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Jerry&Phyllis said:
Thank you very much. The statement above even helped us to better understand the why the door to salvation is closed by the end of the GT.
Still don't totally understand why the 3 1/2 yrs. that follows is termed the Hour of Test?
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When Jesus was baptized, the spirit led him into the wilderness to be tested by the Devil. He was tested throughout his ministry. At the end of his 3 1/2-year ministry, he was tested one last time; even in the face of death, Satan could not break him. But, of course, Christ was perfect. So, the hour of test, which is also 31/2 years, will test the chosen ones after they have been sealed. Keep in mind, the sealing concludes Christianity. There will be no more preaching, teaching and disciple-making. No more calling and choosing. When Jesus said he would keep some from the hour of test, that does not mean they will not face the test. On the contrary. It means that Jesus will strengthen them so they pass the test. Regarding the test, Jesus also said: "The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Notice that in the case of those imprisoned, the test concludes when they are faithful unto death. That is the way it was with Christ too.

But the chosen ones are tested because if Satan succeeds in flipping one of the sealed ones, that would be a huge embarrassment for Jehovah. Essentially, God is entrusting the success of his purpose to establish a Kingdom with 144,000 kings associated with Christ to imperfect people. If they pass the test, and Jehovah has already said they will, then all of Satan's accusations come to naught.
 
Watchman said:
When Jesus was baptized, the spirit led him into the wilderness to be tested by the Devil. He was tested throughout his ministry. At the end of his 3 1/2-year ministry, he was tested one last time; even in the face of death, Satan could not break him. But, of course, Christ was perfect. So, the hour of test, which is also 31/2 years, will test the chosen ones after they have been sealed. Keep in mind, the sealing concludes Christianity. There will be no more preaching, teaching and disciple-making. No more calling and choosing. When Jesus said he would keep some from the hour of test, that does not mean they will not face the test. On the contrary. It means that Jesus will strengthen them so they pass the test. Regarding the test, Jesus also said: "The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life."
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Thanks, again. Admittedly, this point has been difficult for us to totally get our heads around but we are getting there. Thanks for being patient.

Hopefully, this will be the last question on this subject.
So, will the GT survivors also be tested during the HOT? If so, is it a "given" (for lack of a better word) that they, too, will prove faithful because they will also be strengthened or "kept from the hour of test"?
 
Jerry&Phyllis said:
Thanks, again. Admittedly, this point has been difficult for us to totally get our heads around but we are getting there. Thanks for being patient.

Hopefully, this will be the last question on this subject.
So, will the GT survivors also be tested during the HOT? If so, is it a "given" (for lack of a better word) that they, too, will prove faithful because they will also be strengthened or "kept from the hour of test"?
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Jesus said the hour of test was coming upon the entire inhabited earth, to put a test to those dwelling on the earth. That includes everyone. It is conceivable that some who come out of the tribulation may not endure the hour of test, just as it is possible that some may fail the final test at the end of the thousand years. But it seems highly unlikely. In any case, their success or failure would not have the same ramifications as the chosen failing the test, if that were possible.

Be assured God is not going to leave us hanging. Jehovah is going to provide a place of refuge for those seeking it. Isaiah 32 says: "Look! A king will reign for righteousness, and princes will rule for justice. And each one will be like a hiding place from the wind, a place of concealment from the rainstorm, like streams of water in a waterless land, like the shadow of a massive crag in a parched land. Then the eyes of those seeing will no longer be pasted shut, and the ears of those hearing will pay attention. The heart of those who are impetuous will ponder over knowledge, and the stammering tongue will speak fluently and clearly."

Contrary to the Watchtower's teaching, the princes are not Christian elders. And contrary to the Watchtower's teaching, Jehovah is not the Prince of princes. Jesus is. The princes who will rule for justice are the 144,000 brothers of Christ, some of whom will be on earth after they have been sealed. They will provide a place of concealment during the persecution. Don't ask me how, though. ;)
 
Jerry&Phyllis said:
OK. Guess it's good for you that, on our last post, we said "Hopefully, this will be the last question on this subject". :p
Seriously, we do have a much better understanding now. Thanks for all the effort you put forth in helping us to this point..
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I do not mind questions. I thrive on them. Get's my neurons click'n ;)
 
Jerry and I were talking on the phone as I was writing the previous posts.
He said to tell you that he's "going back to Watchtower so he can be a Prince.":unsure::ROFLMAO:
He also said that the prospect of being a "prince" was the main motivation for some brothers being an elder. (Seriously)
 
Watchman said:
and those who do not repent will be judged
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This is a key point. Many will be stricken with terror (Isa 28:19) and see the error they have been living and repent. Those ones are possibly half way to seeing the error already but for some reason are presently "stuck" in their relationship with JW.Org and go along to get along for the time being. The ones who do not repent will end up being those who Jesus described as being the ones who turn on us and hate us, even members of our own families and extended families such as those in our beloved local congregations and circuits. It is going to be a mess. Repentance is key! Thank you for your tireless efforts @Watchman in keeping us alerted to these scriptural and spiritually impactful points!
 
Watchman said:
No. Jezebel is an apostate cult in Christ's congregation. That is why Jesus said: "And I will kill her children with deadly plague, so that all the congregations will know that I am the one who searches the innermost thoughts and hearts, and I will give to you individually according to your deeds."

It is not even that the Jezebel cult commits overt immorality. As Jesus said, he will execute judgment upon her children based on their inner thoughts and hearts. It is interesting that Jesus noted that Jezebel calls herself a prophetess. Obviously, her claim is false. But doesn't the leadership of Jehovah's Witnesses also claim to be a prophet? And is not the very foundation of the organization based on falsehood? Also, do not Jehovah's Witnesses refer to the organization as their mother? That means that their spiritual mother claims to be a prophetess.

The prophetess claims that Babylon the Great will be destroyed during the tribulation. In fact, the prophetess has prophesied that the tribulation begins when the UN turns upon organized religion. But according to Jesus, it is the Jezebel cult within his congregation that will experience the great tribulation: "Look! I am about to throw her into a sickbed, and those committing adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of her deeds." That harmonizes with what Jesus said regarding the disgusting thing standing in a holy place and Jerusalem experiencing the great tibulation, Jerusalem, of course, represents Christ's congregation.
Click to expand...
I wonder if Jezebel is symbolic of how the GB tries to throw out of the congregations any who try to reach the GB with scriptural correction as Jezebel tried to kill off all of the prophets of Jehovah. And, Jezebel also plotted to steal the vineyard from Naboth. It kind of makes me think of the GB taking the KHalls and selling them off. I’m probably reaching but wondering.
 
Watchman said:
When Jesus was baptized, the spirit led him into the wilderness to be tested by the Devil. He was tested throughout his ministry. At the end of his 3 1/2-year ministry, he was tested one last time; even in the face of death, Satan could not break him. But, of course, Christ was perfect. So, the hour of test, which is also 31/2 years, will test the chosen ones after they have been sealed. Keep in mind, the sealing concludes Christianity. There will be no more preaching, teaching and disciple-making. No more calling and choosing. When Jesus said he would keep some from the hour of test, that does not mean they will not face the test. On the contrary. It means that Jesus will strengthen them so they pass the test. Regarding the test, Jesus also said: "The Devil will keep on throwing some of you into prison so that you may be fully put to the test, and you will have tribulation for ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life."

Notice that in the case of those imprisoned, the test concludes when they are faithful unto death. That is the way it was with Christ too.

But the chosen ones are tested because if Satan succeeds in flipping one of the sealed ones, that would be a huge embarrassment for Jehovah. Essentially, God is entrusting the success of his purpose to establish a Kingdom with 144,000 kings associated with Christ to imperfect people. If they pass the test, and Jehovah has already said they will, then all of Satan's accusations come to naught.
Click to expand...
Perhaps it could be termed in today’s judicial language as setting a judicial precedent.

“Judicial precedent (or ‘stare decisis’) is the legal principle whereby courts follow the rulings of previous cases with similar facts and issues, ensuring consistency and predictability in the law.”
 
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Jerry&Phyllis said:
Jerry and I were talking on the phone as I was writing the previous posts.
He said to tell you that he's "going back to Watchtower so he can be a Prince.":unsure::ROFLMAO:
He also said that the prospect of being a "prince" was the main motivation for some brothers being an elder. (Seriously)
Click to expand...
It’s interesting that when we realize some are motivated by a desire for prominence, many see the folly of that and yet that was exactly an issue for a few of the 12 apostles.

Mark 10:35-37: “James and John, the sons of Zebʹe·dee, approached him and said to him: “Teacher, we want you to do for us whatever we ask of you.” He said to them: “What do you want me to do for you?” They replied: “Grant us to sit down, one at your right hand and one at your left, in your glory.”

And it angered the other apostles.

Mark 10:41: “When the ten others heard about it, they became indignant at James and John.”
 
Watchman said:
No. Read the 60th chapter of Isaiah.
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Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
Hi Robert, I've got a question, the scripture about the little one becoming a thousand, I assume it's not what we've been taught by the org?
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The gathering of the anointed and their subsequent revealing???
If that's the wrong answer, blame it on Jerry. (He's not here).
 
Jerry&Phyllis said:
The gathering of the anointed and their subsequent revealing???
If that's the wrong answer, blame it on Jerry. (He's not here).
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I’m not Robert but when reading Isaiah 60 it shows a woman whose condition is turned around completely. From being abandoned and hated to Jehovah making her a source of everlasting pride. In verse 14 she will be called the “City of Jehovah”. Now if you contrast that with Revelation 17:18, “ And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.” Both are cities but one is from Jehovah and we know the other is the world empire of false religion. So, I would think the small one becoming a mighty nation is God’s Kingdom, which is true worship and government all in one. And, I imagine it becoming a mighty nation will be during the 1,000 years. Anyway, that’s my take.
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
Read it.. all I've got in my head is what I was taught, that it's all about Jehovah's modern day organisation and how Jehovah will bless it and make it grow.. no idea what else it could mean? 🤔
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I'll put that one on the back burner then until I've learned more about all this new stuff I'm learning 👍

What about the scripture about Jehovah's mountain being raised high above the other mountains and all nations will stream to it? Is there another explanation other than Jah's org's explanation? 🤔
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
I'll put that one on the back burner then until I've learned more about all this new stuff I'm learning 👍

What about the scripture about Jehovah's mountain being raised high above the other mountains and all nations will stream to it? Is there another explanation other than Jah's org's explanation? 🤔
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That will occur in the future. Here's a couple of articles

e-watchman.com

Mountain of the House

This article was originally written in 2010. The Watchtower is commonly accused of being a false prophet because of several failed predictions and raised expectations related to specific years, such as 1914 and 1925 and more recently 1975. In actuality, though, only a very small percentage of the
e-watchman.com e-watchman.com
e-watchman.com

Let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah

A continuation of the Micah series “In the final part of the days, the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will be raised up above the hills, and to it
e-watchman.com e-watchman.com
 
Watchman said:
That will occur in the future. Here's a couple of articles

e-watchman.com

Mountain of the House

This article was originally written in 2010. The Watchtower is commonly accused of being a false prophet because of several failed predictions and raised expectations related to specific years, such as 1914 and 1925 and more recently 1975. In actuality, though, only a very small percentage of the
e-watchman.com e-watchman.com
e-watchman.com

Let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah

A continuation of the Micah series “In the final part of the days, the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will be raised up above the hills, and to it
e-watchman.com e-watchman.com
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Thank you Robert, very interesting and makes a lot more sense than the "normal" explanation..
 
I should have placed my comment here:

Similarity: Ahab’s wife Jezebel was a queen—of the kingdom of Israel in the ninth century BCE. The regal bearing of ‘Babylon the Great' in chapter 18 of Revelation would call the Israelite queen to mind (Rev.18:7).

(Jezʹe·bel) [from Phoenician, possibly meaning “Where Is the Lofty One [that is, the prince]?”].
 
Joel said:
I should have placed my comment here:

Similarity: Ahab’s wife Jezebel was a queen—of the kingdom of Israel in the ninth century BCE. The regal bearing of ‘Babylon the Great' in chapter 18 of Revelation would call the Israelite queen to mind (Rev.18:7).

(Jezʹe·bel) [from Phoenician, possibly meaning “Where Is the Lofty One [that is, the prince]?”].
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Okay. I'll delete the other (y)
 
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