June 4 2022 More Trinity Questions for Jehovah’s Witnesses

PJ54

Well-known member
*** Text for Saturday, June 4, 2022 ***
I do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others.—1 Cor. 9:23.
What subjects might you discuss with a religious person? Try to find common ground. He may worship only one God, he may recognize Jesus as the Savior of humankind, or he may believe that we are living in a time of wickedness that will soon end. Based on beliefs you have in common, present the Bible’s message in a way that is appealing to that person. Keep in mind that people may not believe everything that their religion teaches. So even after you discern a person’s religion, try to find out what he personally believes. A missionary brother notes that some people say that they believe in the Trinity, but they may not actually believe that the Father, the Son, and the holy spirit are one God. “Knowing that makes it much easier to find common ground with the person,” he says. So try to find out what people really believe. Then, like the apostle Paul, you can “become all things to people of all sorts.”—1 Cor. 9:19-22. w20.04 10 ¶9-10

More Trinity Questions for Jehovah’s Witnesses​

March 16th, 2017​



QUESTION #13 – According to Revelation 1:7-8, Jesus is called the Alpha and Omega, Jehovah God, and the Almighty. We know it is Jesus because in verse 7 it says he was pierced. Jesus was the one that was pierced. Also, it says “he is coming” which means the one who was pierced (Jesus) is coming. Then in verse 8 it says Jehovah is coming. So the text is about the same subject (Jesus/Jehovah) who is coming. This can easily be proven by comparing to Revelation 22:13. Notice how the entire context around Revelation 22:13 is about Jesus. Jesus here identifies himself as the ‘Alpha and Omega’. So how do you explain this? Are Jehovah and Jesus both coming and are both ‘Alpha and Omega’?
ANSWER – The opening chapter of Revelation is an introduction. The very first verse explains that it is a message that God gave to Jesus to show his slaves the things that must take place. Again in the second verse John makes a distinction between God and Jesus. Then in the apostle’s greetings to the seven congregations he says: “May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “the firstborn from the dead,” and “the Ruler of the kings of the earth.”

A careful reading of the passage above indicates that “the One who is and who was and who is coming” is not Jesus, but Jehovah. That is why John went on to introduce Jesus by saying “and,” meaning someone other than the One who is coming. And “the One who is coming” is Almighty God, “the Alpha and Omega,” not Jesus. Of course, Jesus is coming —but it is in the name of Jehovah. And Jesus is also the beginning and the end, but for different reasons. (Is Jesus the Alpha And Omega?)
QUESTION #14 – The Jews picked up stones to kill Jesus because of blasphemy (John 10:30-33). Who was Jesus claiming to be that caused such a reaction? If he was claiming to be a false little ‘g’ god, as the NWT renders it, how could he even be blaspheming?

The questioner demonstrates an astonishing lack of comprehension. Jesus did not claim to be God. The Jews falsely accused him of making himself a god. The setting was, the Jews surrounded Jesus in the temple and demanded to know if he was the Christ. They did not ask if he was God. But Jesus refused to tell them he was Christ, saying: “I told you, and yet you do not believe. The works that I am doing in my Father’s name, these bear witness about me. But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means ever be destroyed, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. What my Father has given me is something greater than all other things, and no one can snatch them out of the hand of the Father. I and the Father are one.”

It was Jesus’ rebuke of them, telling the Jews that they were not his sheep and that he was one with the Father that incited them to attempted murder. But Jesus countered their false accusation that he was making himself a god by saying to them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?”
Jesus set them straight, saying he was God’s Son, not God.

Amazingly, the trinitarians cite the Jews as if they were honest witnesses in the matter, when in fact Jesus had already condemned them as the Devil’s spawn. The Jews lyingly claimed Jesus was making himself equal to God, just as their trinitarian counterparts do today.
QUESTION #15 – According to 1 Timothy 3:16, ‘He’ was made manifest in the flesh. By considering verse 15, we can see that God is the subject immediately prior to verse 16. So it would make sense that verse 16 is referring to God. The WatchTower has even admitted that this was referring to God who was made manifest in the flesh (eg. Watchtower July 1879, Watchtower June 1880. There are also other manuscripts that actually contain the word ‘God’ in verse 16. Therefore, do you agree that God was made manifest in the flesh? If so, who would this make Jesus Christ?

ANSWER – Again, it appears as if trinitarians lack basic reading comprehension skills. The pronoun “he” is not in reference to God, but to the one who demonstrated true godliness and reverence towards God.

Here is what the NIV says: “Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.”

In context Paul was giving instructions for appointing overseers and ministerial servants and for the women in the congregation. And then the concluding reference to Jesus was to underscore that Christ set the perfect example of true godly devotion for everyone to imitate. Surely, no rational person would suppose that God worships himself and then recommends his devotion to himself as an example for others to follow.

Jehovah’s Witnesses should appreciate their privilege to know the truth about the true relationship between Jehovah and Jesus. The twisted reasonings of trinitarians only underscores how precious the truth is.
 

PJ54

Well-known member

Jesus and the throne of God​

February 13th, 2018​


Question #40: Why did the translators of your Bible conveniently fail to insert the word ‘Jehovah’ in Philippians 2:11, Romans 10:9, and 1 Corinthians 12:3?
I feel embarrassed for the questioner. He wants to be a teacher of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but like Paul said of the would-be-teachers of his day, so too trinitarians, who are “wanting to be teachers of the law when they have no sense either of the things they say or of what it is they are being so positive about.”Byington 1 Tim 1:7

Surely, no one who honestly reads the immediate context of Philippians 2:11 would come to the conclusion that Jesus is God. That’s because it is plainly evident that Jesus is given the high honor of having his name placed above every other name by virtue of God’s magnanimity. The context states: “For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground—and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

As already pointed out in previous questions, the intent of the trinity is to shove Jehovah entirely out of mind. The questioner exhibits that tendency to the full. But any honest-hearted seeker of truth can clearly see that Jesus is kindly given his position and authority by God. What rational person would assert that God kindly exalts himself to a superior position? How could the Supreme Being, the Almighty God, attain a superior position? Or how are we to understand the twisted reasoning of a trinitarian, who would have us believe that Jehovah gives himself a name that is above every other name, when Jehovah is already the Most High God?

Apparently the trinitarian would have us believe that because God gave Jesus a name above every other name that the name and office of Jesus excels the name and authority of Jehovah. But to no avail. As the inspired apostle noted, the exaltation of Jesus results in glory to God the Father. If Jesus is exalted above Jehovah how could that possibly bring glory to God the Father? But, that is the sort of shell game trinitarians play.
The same distorted reasoning is employed in regards to Romans 10:9, which states: “For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.”

The trinitarian, in their fleshly mindedness, cannot comprehend spiritual matters. They read Jesus’ words about raising up the temple in three days and they believe Jesus resurrected himself. Like a dog with a bone it is impossible to get them to drop it. But Jesus did not bring himself back to life. The Scriptures make it plain that God raised Jesus from the dead and thereafter exalted him to a superior position as a reward for Jesus’ faithfulness.

The trinitarian evidently imagines that because Jesus has become Lord he is the same as the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. It is beyond their grasp that there are actually two lords, but one Lord is superior to the other. Ironically, the trinitarians’ preferred Bible makes this very point. Having sanitized all traces of the divine name from their Bibles Psalms 110 presents quite a challenge to the trinitarian, where it states: “The LORD said unto my Lord, ‘Sit Thou at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool.’”

Having removed the YHWH rendering of the Father’s name the trinitarian is left to contemplate the undeniable fact that there are two lords. One Lord, the all caps LORD, is obviously the superior lord, since he commands the lesser Lord to sit at his right hand until a certain time when the lesser Lord is given all power and authority. The lesser Lord is Jesus Christ. The greater Lord is Jehovah. There is nothing the trinitarians can do about that. They used to burn Bibles but those days are over. The truth has prevailed.
Question #41: Why does JW artwork consistently show through all the years Jesus with a single nail through his wrist at the time of crucifixion? John 20:25 says that more than one nail was used for his hands.
253px-Crucifixi%C3%B3n_3.jpg


I cannot answer in this instance, as to why the Watchtower has portrayed Jesus with one nail through both hands. But the issue can be easily resolved if we use our imagination to picture Jesus hung upon an upright stake with arms stretched overhead, one hand nailed to one side of the pole and the other hand nailed to the other side of the stake. That would require two nails. One through each hand. Nails (plural) does not prove that the stake had a cross beam and that Jesus arms were extended horizontally.
The question of stake of cross has already been considered here.
Question #42: How do you explain Revelation 3:21 and Revelation 22:1-4 where it says there is a single throne that belongs to both Jehovah and Jesus? Also, how do you explain the singular words ‘his’ and ‘him’ being used when both Jehovah and Jesus are the subject?

Revelation 3:21 states: “To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.”

Following this particular trinitarian’s “reasoning,” we would have to conclude that all of the holy ones are God. After all, they are destined to sit upon God’s throne along with Jesus. So instead of a 3-in-1 godhead we have a god composed of 144,003. Makes my head spin.

Again, it is simply beyond the trinitarian’s grasp that Jehovah temporarily gives his throne to his Son. But that is the truth. Jehovah has always sat as King. Jesus has not. Jesus’ becoming king is a reward for his having conquered the world. Same with those who are called to share with Christ. They receive the same reward provided they conqueror the world, which, not coincidently, means they must conquer the false doctrines of the trinitarians and other false Christians.

Interestingly, in the seventh chapter of Revelation the Lamb is portrayed as being in the midst of the throne —not on the throne. Although Christ is destined to rule as king he does not replace or supplant Jehovah. Instead he rules in behalf of God. Jesus said as much when he was on earth, revealing that he does nothing of his own initiative but that he only judges by the Father’s standards.

So, Christ’s kingdom is really God’s Kingdom, and it is called such; not because Jesus is God, but because he rules for God as deputy king and god. That is why the Lamb is depicted in the midst of the throne. He receives honors and even worship, but all worshippers will acknowledge that Jehovah is God. That is why the Scriptures refer to Jehovah becoming King when Christ’s Kingdom comes to power.
Question #43: How do you explain Revelation 5:6 and Revelation 5:13-14 which shows that God, Jesus, and God’s Spirit as all receiving the same exact worship at the same exact time?

The questioner seems to have a reading comprehension problem. Revelation 22:1 clearly distinguishes the throne of God and the Lamb as two separate things. As pointed out already, Christ rules in behalf of Jehovah and exists in the midst of the throne, but ultimately the throne belongs to God. After all, it is called the Kingdom of God.
 

SusanB

Well-known member

Jesus and the throne of God​

February 13th, 2018​



I feel embarrassed for the questioner. He wants to be a teacher of Jehovah’s Witnesses, but like Paul said of the would-be-teachers of his day, so too trinitarians, who are “wanting to be teachers of the law when they have no sense either of the things they say or of what it is they are being so positive about.”Byington 1 Tim 1:7

Surely, no one who honestly reads the immediate context of Philippians 2:11 would come to the conclusion that Jesus is God. That’s because it is plainly evident that Jesus is given the high honor of having his name placed above every other name by virtue of God’s magnanimity. The context states: “For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground—and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

As already pointed out in previous questions, the intent of the trinity is to shove Jehovah entirely out of mind. The questioner exhibits that tendency to the full. But any honest-hearted seeker of truth can clearly see that Jesus is kindly given his position and authority by God. What rational person would assert that God kindly exalts himself to a superior position? How could the Supreme Being, the Almighty God, attain a superior position? Or how are we to understand the twisted reasoning of a trinitarian, who would have us believe that Jehovah gives himself a name that is above every other name, when Jehovah is already the Most High God?

Apparently the trinitarian would have us believe that because God gave Jesus a name above every other name that the name and office of Jesus excels the name and authority of Jehovah. But to no avail. As the inspired apostle noted, the exaltation of Jesus results in glory to God the Father. If Jesus is exalted above Jehovah how could that possibly bring glory to God the Father? But, that is the sort of shell game trinitarians play.
The same distorted reasoning is employed in regards to Romans 10:9, which states: “For if you publicly declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and exercise faith in your heart that God raised him up from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one exercises faith for righteousness, but with the mouth one makes public declaration for salvation.”

The trinitarian, in their fleshly mindedness, cannot comprehend spiritual matters. They read Jesus’ words about raising up the temple in three days and they believe Jesus resurrected himself. Like a dog with a bone it is impossible to get them to drop it. But Jesus did not bring himself back to life. The Scriptures make it plain that God raised Jesus from the dead and thereafter exalted him to a superior position as a reward for Jesus’ faithfulness.

The trinitarian evidently imagines that because Jesus has become Lord he is the same as the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. It is beyond their grasp that there are actually two lords, but one Lord is superior to the other. Ironically, the trinitarians’ preferred Bible makes this very point. Having sanitized all traces of the divine name from their Bibles Psalms 110 presents quite a challenge to the trinitarian, where it states: “The LORD said unto my Lord, ‘Sit Thou at My right hand, until I make Thine enemies Thy footstool.’”

Having removed the YHWH rendering of the Father’s name the trinitarian is left to contemplate the undeniable fact that there are two lords. One Lord, the all caps LORD, is obviously the superior lord, since he commands the lesser Lord to sit at his right hand until a certain time when the lesser Lord is given all power and authority. The lesser Lord is Jesus Christ. The greater Lord is Jehovah. There is nothing the trinitarians can do about that. They used to burn Bibles but those days are over. The truth has prevailed.

253px-Crucifixi%C3%B3n_3.jpg


I cannot answer in this instance, as to why the Watchtower has portrayed Jesus with one nail through both hands. But the issue can be easily resolved if we use our imagination to picture Jesus hung upon an upright stake with arms stretched overhead, one hand nailed to one side of the pole and the other hand nailed to the other side of the stake. That would require two nails. One through each hand. Nails (plural) does not prove that the stake had a cross beam and that Jesus arms were extended horizontally.
The question of stake of cross has already been considered here.


Revelation 3:21 states: “To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.”

Following this particular trinitarian’s “reasoning,” we would have to conclude that all of the holy ones are God. After all, they are destined to sit upon God’s throne along with Jesus. So instead of a 3-in-1 godhead we have a god composed of 144,003. Makes my head spin.

Again, it is simply beyond the trinitarian’s grasp that Jehovah temporarily gives his throne to his Son. But that is the truth. Jehovah has always sat as King. Jesus has not. Jesus’ becoming king is a reward for his having conquered the world. Same with those who are called to share with Christ. They receive the same reward provided they conqueror the world, which, not coincidently, means they must conquer the false doctrines of the trinitarians and other false Christians.

Interestingly, in the seventh chapter of Revelation the Lamb is portrayed as being in the midst of the throne —not on the throne. Although Christ is destined to rule as king he does not replace or supplant Jehovah. Instead he rules in behalf of God. Jesus said as much when he was on earth, revealing that he does nothing of his own initiative but that he only judges by the Father’s standards.

So, Christ’s kingdom is really God’s Kingdom, and it is called such; not because Jesus is God, but because he rules for God as deputy king and god. That is why the Lamb is depicted in the midst of the throne. He receives honors and even worship, but all worshippers will acknowledge that Jehovah is God. That is why the Scriptures refer to Jehovah becoming King when Christ’s Kingdom comes to power.


The questioner seems to have a reading comprehension problem. Revelation 22:1 clearly distinguishes the throne of God and the Lamb as two separate things. As pointed out already, Christ rules in behalf of Jehovah and exists in the midst of the throne, but ultimately the throne belongs to God. After all, it is called the Kingdom of God.
Nice links within the article. I never considered how many nails were used. Love the simple and clear reasoning.
 
Top