Kingdom Bulletin #27

[Melinda Riling]

I wanted to share an experience I had over the weekend. Robert said "If you are inclined, please share a link to the recently posted article on e-watchman with your social media contacts - Bulletin 27. I was inclined to do so. I flooded many XW FB and youtube sites. I also sent the bulletin to the brother who studied with me 45 years ago. Here is a little history about this brother. I was 19 when I met this brother and his wife. He was about 35 yrs old and elder and pioneer. My husband and I had moved to a new town after studying for 3 months prior. This brother contacted us about continuing our study....our first study was at his house. When we showed up the brother and his wife were finishing up a study with a different couple....so we waited.....after our study was finished there was another couple that was waiting on us to finish. I really thought that people were waiting in line to learn the truth. I think everyone knows certain Elders who stick out in the circuit or district for their ability to speak and teach, this brother would have been one of those. To this day I don't know think I have heard a speaker religious or otherwise that could hold an audience attention the way this brother did. Besides his gift of public speaking and being a great teacher he was very humble, meek and kind. By being my teacher he always held a special place. He served Jehovah for over 35 years as an Elder, pioneer, Circuit Overseer, Bethelite and missionary. In the early 2000's he moved to California and soon was disfellowshipped. After I found Robert 3 years ago I reached out to him. I felt the conversation was positive but he was skeptical of things I shared with him. For the last couple years I would send him articles, videos from Robert at least once or twice a month. He never replies but I still send them any way. Until this weekend he responded with the following

I’m trying to find where WT said there will be no World War III. Or there will not be use of nuclear weapons. I know the WT said God will not let them destroy the earth that way, but that’s not saying that nukes won’t be used, and not saying there won’t be another world war. I’ve read in WT: “even if man were to use nuclear weapons again, God would not allow the situation to escalate to the point of global annihilation”.

I wrote back and sent him the link to the reasoning book called "How do you know that some future generation won't fit the prophecy even better than this one" I didn't really know where he was going with this question because I always believed there could not be another WW3 in fact he himself had taught that concept to me. I don't think I knew any JW that didn't believe that there would be no World War lll either. He wrote back the following

But e-watchman has many times said that WT claims there would be no WW III and no nuclear war. I think that’s false. I can’t find where WT said what he claims they said. But the point is that WT didn’t say it and E-watchman uses this as a proof of false prophesying

He obviously wanted to see it in black and white where WT said those exact words there "will be no WWlll". Reasoning from the reasoning book wasn't enough. After 50 text back and forth I felt like I was reasoning with WT about 1975 when they said we never said 1975 would be the end. I finally realized where he was going with his argument when he wrote the following:

Don't you see a pattern with you? JW's Trump and now Robert! I'm trying to tell you that I think you're susceptible to conspiracy theories. I tried today to point out just one thing that Robert lied about and you went all over the place to get around it. You did Melinda! We are never going to agree on this stuff. Just know that I love you and I always have.

I waited 3 days and wrote the following back:

I have given this statement a lot of thought these last couple days. When you said basically I have traded one idol to follow another. First JW then Trump now Robert. Since I was a child I have always had a need or a thirst to make since of life. When 1 +1 doesn’t equal 2 I will not let it go till it does and I will get to the bottom of why it doesn’t. I was 19 when I found My first LOVE it was like a diamond to me…it was the basic Truths from JW’s. JW’s teach you the basics Truths FIRST as a carrot… then by subtle design you no longer think for yourself and use critical thinking for that is not allowed… then men are set up to be masters over your faith… over time it felt as though the light was fading and my faith had turned to a burden, a heavy and impossible load to carry - a duty.

Jesus said “My load is light” yet it became a ball and chain around my neck. Because of my following men my faith became a shipwreck. The next 20 years I danced with the beast of Revelation… always running away from my first LOVE. When the Plandemic came upon the whole world and 1 +1 did not =2. I became like a pit bull. I had to make "life make since". It was the flea to the mountain moment for me. I went back to my first LOVE For the past 3 years I understand the importance of Faith in Jehovah NOT in an organization. The load is indeed light and I can for the first time in many many years I can “ Sleep on a stormy night"

I will continue to send him articles as I know he must be reading them....

 

[Jerry&Phyllis]

I wanted to share an experience I had over the weekend.

Thanks for the update, Melinda.
Agree the quote from the Reasoning book doesn't come right out and state....."There will never be a WW3".
However, if you read between the lines and connect the dots (let the reader use discernment), it is apparent that WT is suggesting there can not be another world war.

*** rs p. 242 par. 2 Last Days ***
"Matching world events to this prophecy is like matching a fingerprint to its owner. There will not be someone else with the identical print. Likewise, the pattern of events that began in 1914 will not be repeated in some future generation."

And WT put the icing on the cake by adding:
"Then perhaps add: (1) ‘Everything that goes to make up the sign is clearly in evidence.’ (2) ‘Surely we do not want to be like the people in Noah’s day. (Matt. 24:37-39)"

As we know all too well, if a person doesn't want to see it, they are not going to see it. Nice work. (Phyllis)

(2 Corinthians 3:15, 16) . . .In fact, down till today whenever Moses is read, a veil lies upon their hearts. 16 But when there is a turning to Jehovah, the veil is taken away. . .

 

[Watchman]

I think he is the one "going all over the place." The point of the Kingdom Bulletin, and indeed e-watchman over all, is that 1914 is a hoax. As pointed out in the article you sent him and that he read, Jesus said "when you see all these things..." And none of us have personally seen any of the things the WT says prove that Jesus returned in 1914. It is not merely an issue of whether there will be another world war or if they will use nukes, as pointed out, we are facing a stampede of the horsemen of the Apocalypse; war, food shortages, pandemics, and death on a scale never before experienced. It is the British Crown's actual policy to reduce the world's population by a staggering 80-90%. Not only is it their intention, they have the power to make it happen. Like many people, your friend is in deep denial.

But I appreciate your trying to get the message out there, Sister. Thanks.

 

[Melinda Riling]

I think he is the one "going all over the place." The point of the Kingdom Bulletin, and indeed e-watchman over all, is that 1914 is a hoax. As pointed out in the article you sent him and that he read, Jesus said "when you see all these things..." And none of us have personally seen any of the things the WT says prove that Jesus returned in 1914. It is not merely an issue of whether there will be another world war or if they will use nukes, as pointed out, we are facing a stampede of the horsemen of the Apocalypse; war, food shortages, pandemics, and death on a scale never before experienced. It is the British Crown's actual policy to reduce the world's population by a staggering 80-90%. Not only is it their intention, they have the power to make it happen. Like many people, your friend is in deep denial.

But I appreciate your trying to get the message out there, Sister. Thanks.

In our many text back and forth....I said pretty much what said then I point blank said the following:
Do you believe 1914 was the second coming of Christ?
His answer was the following
It was obviously not

 

[Watchman]

In our many text back and forth....I said pretty much what said then I point blank said the following:
Do you believe 1914 was the second coming of Christ?
His answer was the following
It was obviously not

Yeah, but the WT does not usually refer to 1914 as the second coming of Christ. The GB know that would sound absurd to many people. More commonly the WT says the last days began in 1914. Perhaps he believes 1914 was the beginning of the last days? Obviously, though, if WWI was the sign that Christ's Kingdom had begun ruling, then there could not be another war that supercedes WWI. (Even though WW2 did, they were close enough together that they sort of melded together.)

 

[Watchman]

Stating the obvious, if the WT were to leave open the possibility of another world war they would essentially be suggesting that they could be wrong about 1914. And we all know they would never do that. The only way they will ever admit their error is when they are confronted with terror. And Jehovah is making arrangements for that at this very moment.

 

[Melinda Riling]

Stating the obvious, if the WT were to leave open the possibility of another world war they would essentially be suggesting that they could be wrong about 1914. And we all know they would never do that. The only way they will ever admit their error is when they are confronted with terror. And Jehovah is making arrangements for that at this very moment.

I love this. I just forwarded this to him. I told him I’m not giving up on him nor is Jehovah.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

Yeah, but the WT does not usually refer to 1914 as the second coming of Christ. The GB know that would sound absurd to many people. More commonly the WT says the last days began in 1914. Perhaps he believes 1914 was the beginning of the last days? Obviously, though, if WWI was the sign that Christ's Kingdom had begun ruling, then there could not be another war that supercedes WWI. (Even though WW2 did, they were close enough together that they sort of melded together.)

I’ve read in many WT articles, even recently that Jesus came and set up his kingdom in 1914. That’s evidently the same as saying his coming. But then here we go getting caught up with semantics.
I’d have to break it down for that brother saying: if Jesus set up his kingdom in 1914 that would mean his second coming right? These poor witnesses can’t even think anymore.
This is so mind twisting.

 

[Watchman]

I’ve read in many WT articles, even recently that Jesus came and set up his kingdom in 1914. That’s evidently the same as saying his coming. But then here we go getting caught up with semantics.
I’d have to break it down for that brother saying: if Jesus set up his kingdom in 1914 that would mean his second coming right? These poor witnesses can’t even think anymore.
This is so mind twisting.

As pointed out in the Second Coming brochure, the WT does claim that the second coming of Jesus Christ took place in 1914, but they do it in a very clever, tricky way. They say the second coming has occurred but people do not recognize the sign. No doubt that is why in the concluding chapter of the prophecy of Zephaniah, Jehovah says there will no more be found in you a tricky tongue (Reference Bible)

The Second Coming of Christ – What Will It Mean for You?

This post is a reproduction of what was previously published as a brochure. in 2019. You may purchase copies of the brochure for distribution or download as a PDF. Unfortunately, I corrected about a half dozen typos that appear in the hard copy

e-watchman.com

 

[Melinda Riling]

I’ve read in many WT articles, even recently that Jesus came and set up his kingdom in 1914. That’s evidently the same as saying his coming. But then here we go getting caught up with semantics.
I’d have to break it down for that brother saying: if Jesus set up his kingdom in 1914 that would mean his second coming right? These poor witnesses can’t even think anymore.
This is so mind twisting.

He understood what meant by the second coming because we talked about the invisible presence.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

He understood what meant by the second coming because we talked about the invisible presence.

Did he say if he thought it made any sense?

 

[Melinda Riling]

Did he say if he thought that made any sense?

He wasn’t arguing about 1914 he argued that Robert was not being honest about WT saying there could not be another WW he say WT has said there is a possibility of a WW

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

He wasn’t arguing about 1914 he argued that Robert was not being honest about WT saying there could not be another WW he say WT has said there is a possibility of a WW

I don’t know why he would say that. I remember being taught that Jehovah wouldn’t allow man to use nuclear weapons. They were very clever about it because I don’t remember them specifically saying there wouldn’t be WW3.

 

[Watchman]

He wasn’t arguing about 1914 he argued that Robert was not being honest about WT saying there could not be another WW he say WT has said there is a possibility of a WW

As your friend well knows, the Watchtower's minister's handbook, Reasoning from the Scriptures, on the topic of the last days lays out all their talking points for 1914. Toward the bottom of that chapter the WT offers some suggestions to overcome objections. Like the following:

‘How do you know that some future generation won’t fit the prophecy even better than this one?’

You might reply: ‘That’s an interesting question, and the answer highlights the fact that we really are living in “the last days.” How? Well, part of the sign given by Jesus involves war between nations and kingdoms. But what would happen today if fulfillment of the sign required that we wait until another all-out war were to break out between the superpowers? Such a war would leave few if any survivors. So, you see, God’s purpose that there be survivors indicates that we are now very close to the end of this old system.’

Or you could say: ‘Matching world events to this prophecy is like matching a fingerprint to its owner. There will not be someone else with the identical print. Likewise, the pattern of events that began in 1914 will not be repeated in some future generation.’ Then perhaps add: (1) ‘Everything that goes to make up the sign is clearly in evidence.’ (2) ‘Surely we do not want to be like the people in Noah’s day. (Matt. 24:37-39)’

So, the Watchtower is directing millions of JW ministers to try to persuade people that there cannot be another world war because it would go nuclear and there would be no survivors. And, of course, they are correct. It will go nuclear. But as regards survivors, they seem not to believe Jesus when he promised that God would cut the tribulation short so that it will not be an extinction event.

But your friend does not accept this. He does not regard what the Watchtower puts in print to instruct Jehovah's Witnesses to be proof of what the Watchtower teaches. He wants more. He says I am not honest. What do I say to that? I lay claim to the apostle's words, when he said: "We are regarded as deceivers and yet we are truthful."

 

[Melinda Riling]

As your friend well knows, the Watchtower's minister's handbook, Reasoning from the Scriptures, on the topic of the last days lays out all their talking points for 1914. Toward the bottom of that chapter the WT offers some suggestions to overcome objections. Like the following:

So, the Watchtower is directing millions of JW ministers to try to persuade people that there cannot be another world war because it would go nuclear and there would be no survivors. And, of course, they are correct. It will go nuclear. But as regards survivors, they seem not to believe Jesus when he promised that God would cut the tribulation short so that it will not be an extinction event.

But your friend does not accept this. He does not regard what the Watchtower puts in print to instruct Jehovah's Witnesses to be proof of what the Watchtower teaches. He wants more. He says I am not honest. What do I say to that? I lay claim to the apostle's words, when he said: "We are regarded as deceivers and yet we are truthful."

This afternoon my conversation continued with my friend. I forwarded everything you said … he still argued that not only did WT not teach WW3 or nuclear war was not possible but that I am the only one from back in day that believed it was impossible . I said to him “ i tell you what i am going to text Bev who is a mutual friend that I am in contact with and I will as her”. I texted Bev the following question:

I need your to help. Help me settle an argument. Back in the day did you ever think there could be another world war and a possible nuclear war based on watchtower.

Her answer was No….

I forwarded her entire text message. Bev was a neutral party. As far as I am concerned this subject is closed between he and I.

 

[Watchman]

This afternoon my conversation continued with my friend. I forwarded everything you said … he still argued that not only did WT not teach WW3 or nuclear war was not possible but that I am the only one from back in day that believed it was impossible . I said to him “ i tell you what i am going to text Bev who is a mutual friend that I am in contact with and I will as her”. I texted Bev the following question:

I need your to help. Help me settle an argument. Back in the day did you ever think there could be another world war and a possible nuclear war based on watchtower.

Her answer was No….

I forwarded her entire text message. Bev was a neutral party. As far as I am concerned this subject is closed between he and I.

I wouldn't call what's going on there an "argument." It's some kind of confliction between reality and unreality.

 

[Nomex]

I tried today to point out just one thing that Robert lied

This is nothing more than a straw man argument, and not even a very good one.

Watchtower is directing millions of JW ministers to try to persuade people that there cannot be another world war because it would go nuclear and there would be no survivors. And, of course, they are correct. It will go nuclear. But as regards survivors, they seem not to believe Jesus when he promised that God would cut the tribulation short so that it will not be an extinction event.

The heart of this issue is that they have no clue not even slightly of what the GT is even going to be. Melinda's friend is being intellectually dishonest. The reason there cannot be another WW, is because their version GT doesn't not have anything to do with that. I think that's the point that should be made! WT has no idea what the GT is or is going to be! But the fact is they believe that every prophecy has been fulfilled except 3, (maybe 4), the proclamation of Peace and Security, the outbreak of the GT, and Armageddon! So it's not really an honest argument!

 

[Melinda Riling]

This is nothing more than a straw man argument, and not even a very good one.

The heart of this issue is that they have no clue not even slightly of what the GT is even going to be. Melinda's friend is being intellectually dishonest. The reason there cannot be another WW, is because their version GT doesn't not have anything to do with that. I think that's the point that should be made! WT has no idea what the GT is or is going to be! But the fact is they believe that every prophecy has been fulfilled except 3, (maybe 4), the proclamation of Peace and Security, the outbreak of the GT, and Armageddon! So it's not really an honest

The heart of his issue was I was trading one idol for another using what he felt was a lie from Robert. Basically now Robert is my idol I follow. That’s what his entire argument amounted to. In a nutshell I told him all I’ve done is return to my first Love (Jehovah) nothing more

 

[4JahandChrist]

This is nothing more than a straw man argument, and not even a very good one.

The heart of this issue is that they have no clue not even slightly of what the GT is even going to be. Melinda's friend is being intellectually dishonest. The reason there cannot be another WW, is because their version GT doesn't not have anything to do with that. I think that's the point that should be made! WT has no idea what the GT is or is going to be! But the fact is they believe that every prophecy has been fulfilled except 3, (maybe 4), the proclamation of Peace and Security, the outbreak of the GT, and Armageddon! So it's not really an honest argument!

What has changed since I was actively involved is that at sometime in the GT they believe they will get inspired instructions from the Slave and they must learn to be obedient now since if they disobey in the future it will cost them their life. (They were implying that at the CLAM update No.9 rehash last week)

That plan doesn't seem to allow for Nukes unless the special instructions involve wearing radiation proof PPE, holding hands and skipping through the mushroom clouds to safety. (Just think of Dorothy, The Tin Man, The Lion and the Scarecrow skipping up the Yellow Brick Road in Blast Suits)

Actually the Tin Man doesn't need a blast suit....the jammy little buggar.

 

[Watchman]

The heart of his issue was I was trading one idol for another using what he felt was a lie from Robert. Basically now Robert is my idol I follow. That’s what his entire argument amounted to. In a nutshell I told him all I’ve done is return to my first Love (Jehovah) nothing more

Your friend might be resentful that you have found a new teacher. You had said he was a very good speaker and teacher. No doubt he knew you looked up to him at one time. Now, though, you are trying to teach him and he can't handle it. So, he slanders me as being untruthful and he slanders you as an idolator for merely believing what I say. People. Shess.

 

[Goldie]

The heart of his issue was I was trading one idol for another using what he felt was a lie from Robert. Basically now Robert is my idol I follow. That’s what his entire argument amounted to. In a nutshell I told him all I’ve done is return to my first Love (Jehovah) nothing more

Maybe this can help

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101983922?q=The+nuclear+threat&p=doc

 

[MickHewitt]

The heart of his issue was I was trading one idol for another using what he felt was a lie from Robert. Basically now Robert is my idol I follow. That’s what his entire argument amounted to. In a nutshell I told him all I’ve done is return to my first Love (Jehovah) nothing more

When Bletchley park broke the Enigma code they sent details of Hitler's offensive into Russia before the attack happened Stalin's army were given the complete order of battle of Kursk in detail so that they could intercept Hitler's army at every turn and they did turning the tide of the war! Exactly what Jehovah has done with us here through His Watchman.....Acts13:41 "Look at it you scorners and be amazed and perish for I am doing a work in your days a work that you will never believe even if anyone relates it to you in detail" The bibles Enigma code has been given to His Watchman and we are in receipt of the order of battle in detail! Those like Melinda's elder a scorner refuses to listen what is related to Jehovah's works being done today in detail.....but we do! Praise Jehovah and our Christ everyone for it is wonderful to be drawn to these details! And what a parallel we see today in Kursk.....Putin dressed in battle fatigues!

 

[Melinda Riling]

fact he himself had taught that concept to me. I don't think I knew

Maybe this can help

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101983922?q=The+nuclear+threat&p=doc

Thank you

 

[a believer]

Maybe this can help

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/101983922?q=The+nuclear+threat&p=doc

Side-by-Side View of the Society -- FYI

December 22, 1983 Awake!		June 8, 1981 Awake!
Will there be a nuclear holocaust or not? Once again we can turn to the Bible, confident that it will give us a reliable answer. At Isaiah 45:18 we read: “For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited.” Since the “Former of the earth” has not created it “simply for nothing,” he will never permit a nuclear holocaust to turn it into a radioactive wasteland, uninhabitable by man or beast. This would be contrary to His purpose as expressed at Psalm 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”		Will this nationalistic “pushing” match result in World War III? Possibly. The world political situation certainly looks hopeless from a human point of view.... Without specifying whether or not the present arms race will touch off World War III, it does make this statement about our times: “But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give their reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”—Rev. 11:18. Economic greed and pollution are already “ruining the earth,” and God has plenty of reason to put an end to those responsible for such things, even without the added ruination that a third world war might bring. Still, in view of this prophecy, even if a global war should break out, God would never let it totally ruin this beautiful globe, which he created to be the home of humankind, not its graveyard.—Isa. 45:18.

 

[Watchman]

Side-by-Side View of the Society -- FYI

December 22, 1983 Awake!

June 8, 1981 Awake!

Will there be a nuclear holocaust or not? Once again we can turn to the Bible, confident that it will give us a reliable answer. At Isaiah 45:18 we read: “For this is what Jehovah has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the true God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited.” Since the “Former of the earth” has not created it “simply for nothing,” he will never permit a nuclear holocaust to turn it into a radioactive wasteland, uninhabitable by man or beast. This would be contrary to His purpose as expressed at Psalm 37:29: “The righteous themselves will possess the earth, and they will reside forever upon it.”

Will this nationalistic “pushing” match result in World War III? Possibly. The world political situation certainly looks hopeless from a human point of view.... Without specifying whether or not the present arms race will touch off World War III, it does make this statement about our times: “But the nations became wrathful, and your own wrath came, and the appointed time for the dead to be judged, and to give their reward to your slaves the prophets and to the holy ones and to those fearing your name, the small and the great, and to bring to ruin those ruining the earth.”—Rev. 11:18. Economic greed and pollution are already “ruining the earth,” and God has plenty of reason to put an end to those responsible for such things, even without the added ruination that a third world war might bring. Still, in view of this prophecy, even if a global war should break out, God would never let it totally ruin this beautiful globe, which he created to be the home of humankind, not its graveyard.—Isa. 45:18.

It is not unusual for the WT to publish contradictory statements. But, for sure, no one will ever accuse the WT of not being clever with words. Take the May 1st, 1984 Watchtower, for example. While not saying overtly that there will not be a World War III, by claiming that another world war would be "suicidal," and insisting that Jesus' prophecy began to be fulfilled in 1914, and those were the beginning pangs of distress, they all but say a WWIII is impossible. Again, they rule out divine intervention cutting short a world-ending nuclear war. Ironically, it is in the very prophecy that Jesus foretold that nations will rise against nations that he said if God did not cut those days short no flesh would be saved. So, the Watchtower's reasoning that there cannot be another war that would serve as the beginning pangs of distress because it would destroy the world is exactly what Jesus said would be the inevitable result if God did not intervene.

Once when Jesus was alone with four of his followers, they asked him: “What will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?” Jesus did not give them a date. Rather, he described a series of world events and trends that would enable his followers to know that his spiritual “presence” had begun. His prophecy says: “Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another.” He then added: “All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.”—Matthew 24:3, 7, 8.

Can you see now the real reason why the great wars of this century are so important? They fulfill Jesus’ prophecy. No other wars of history measure up to the two world wars. Only a suicidal third world war could be greater, but Jesus was not prophesying that, since the wars he spoke about were part of “a beginning of pangs of distress.” Troubles were to continue and even intensify after their outbreak. Without a doubt, his prophecy has had fulfillment in the world wars that began in 1914.