MANY CALLED, FEW CHOSEN

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Just leaving a few scriptures here to think about:

John 6:53
"So Jesus said to them: 'Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves.'"
If we are told NOT to partake, where does our life come from then?

*John 6:54*
"Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day."
> Jesus ties everlasting life directly to eating and drinking.

*John 6:56*
"Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him."
If we don't partake, how do we remain in union with Jesus?

*1 Corinthians 10:17*
"Because there is one loaf, we, though many, are one body, for we are all partaking of that one loaf."
> We are one body because we all partake of that one loaf. If some never partake, how are we truly one?

Just something to prayerfully think about.

You don’t get off that easy Goldie! It refers to everlasting life, the hope of such, the spirit of love, the substance of understanding and potential. The flip-side in meaning is transience. You live for a short while but never come to understand the gift that truly is.

Another aspect is this: life inhabits all things on earth, each with a different level of contribution. But they are as alive as we are. Life is life. There is no gradient of one life being better or more productive than the other. It fulfils its purpose allotted to it. We that have brains also have choice to fend for ourselves and contribute to the system of creation. Where does a spider get its exact measurements and understanding of dynamic stress values upon a net, and tension it to exact measure to fulfil its purpose. Compare a criminal serving a life sentence sitting in a cell with a brain surgeon saving lives. Why do birds have brains fitted with magnetite so that they can migrate following magnetic lay lines - with such precision that they can find even last years nest!

1 cor. 10. Again this refers to our love of righteousness. We are all children of Jehovah with a like purpose. This is unity. There are levels of unity in that some assist others, others contribute with support of one kind or another, just as there are varying ranks of angels. Unity is a oneness of mind. There are many mansions within that mind that contribute to its overall function.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

One thing that pops into my mind about considering if partaking at the Memorial is only for the anointed or everyone is that beginning with Adam and Eve, humans never have had “life in themselves”. As Brother King has pointed out, giving the resurrected Chosen Ones, “life in themselves” is an answer to Satan’s challenge that Jehovah is withholding something good from humans. Humans were always purposed to rely on their lifegiver, Jehovah, to sustain their lives. That is what most humans will return to when Jehovah’s purpose for the earth is fulfilled. But with the Chosen Ones, they must die and relinquish human life, but they will be granted “life in themselves”. That is Jehovah’s reply to Satan’s taunt and something entirely new. Brother King explains it much better than I ever could.

NWT, Psalm 36:9: “With you is the source of life; By your light we can see light.”

The Rise and Fall of Satan the Devil

Who is Satan the Devil? Is he a work of fiction, a myth? Is he really a reddish-colored, horned creature with a tail and pitchfork? Perhaps devils and demons are just relics of the superstitious Dark Ages? Seriously, who could believe that Satan really resides in a

e-watchman.com

Excellent point Susan

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

13 years ago when I had my knees replaced they had me meet with the anesthesiologist and I told him I refused blood transfusions. Right away he wrote down on my chart that I was a Jehovah’s Witness and I told him to remove that, it was not because of what the religion teaches that I abstain its because that I'm a Christian who practices what the Bible commands in Acts 15:19 and that I didn't consider myself a Jehovah's Witness. It didn't matter to him and he left that on my chart anyway. It irked me that he wouldn't remove it.

Cheeky ol' so and so!! I wonder how he's dealing with the aftermath of the c injections where many people who might not even be religious, are determined they don't want a blood transfusion.. he can't put them ALL down as jws

 

[Goldie]

You don’t get off that easy Goldie! It refers to everlasting life, the hope of such, the spirit of love, the substance of understanding and potential. The flip-side in meaning is transience. You live for a short while but never come to understand the gift that truly is.

Another aspect is this: life inhabits all things on earth, each with a different level of contribution. But they are as alive as we are. Life is life. There is no gradient of one life being better or more productive than the other. It fulfils its purpose allotted to it. We that have brains also have choice to fend for ourselves and contribute to the system of creation. Where does a spider get its exact measurements and understanding of dynamic stress values upon a net, and tension it to exact measure to fulfil its purpose. Compare a criminal serving a life sentence sitting in a cell with a brain surgeon saving lives. Why do birds have brains fitted with magnetite so that they can migrate following magnetic lay lines - with such precision that they can find even last years nest!

1 cor. 10. Again this refers to our love of righteousness. We are all children of Jehovah with a like purpose. This is unity. There are levels of unity in that some assist others, others contribute with support of one kind or another, just as there are varying ranks of angels. Unity is a oneness of mind. There are many mansions within that mind that contribute to its overall function.

GET OFF EASY!??? Ive been at this for THREE DAYS! This thread is making me want to partake right NOW! Barn, I see what you're saying about creation, but I like to keep it simple to what the Bible actually says.

Jesus didn't say we have no hope or no understanding — he said: "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves" and then he defines it: "Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood HAS EVERLASTING LIFE." — John 6:53, 54 NWT

And 1 Cor 10:17 NWT says: "Because there is one loaf, we, although many, are one body, for we are all partaking of that one loaf."

It doesn't say we are one because we have a love of righteousness — it says we are one body BECAUSE we all partake of that one loaf. READ IT PLEASE!

That's what makes us one.

 

[Goldie]

One thing that pops into my mind about considering if partaking at the Memorial is only for the anointed or everyone is that beginning with Adam and Eve, humans never have had “life in themselves”. As Brother King has pointed out, giving the resurrected Chosen Ones, “life in themselves” is an answer to Satan’s challenge that Jehovah is withholding something good from humans. Humans were always purposed to rely on their lifegiver, Jehovah, to sustain their lives. That is what most humans will return to when Jehovah’s purpose for the earth is fulfilled. But with the Chosen Ones, they must die and relinquish human life, but they will be granted “life in themselves”. That is Jehovah’s reply to Satan’s taunt and something entirely new. Brother King explains it much better than I ever could.

NWT, Psalm 36:9: “With you is the source of life; By your light we can see light.”

The Rise and Fall of Satan the Devil

Who is Satan the Devil? Is he a work of fiction, a myth? Is he really a reddish-colored, horned creature with a tail and pitchfork? Perhaps devils and demons are just relics of the superstitious Dark Ages? Seriously, who could believe that Satan really resides in a

e-watchman.com

John 5:26 where it says the Father granted the Son to have life in himself — that is about immortality, life that doesn’t depend on anyone. And you’re right, only Jehovah and Jesus have that.

But John 6:53 where Jesus says “unless you eat… you have no life in yourselves” is different. He explains it in the very next verse: “Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood HAS EVERLASTING LIFE.” — John 6:54 NWT

He’s not talking about immortality there, he’s talking about everlasting life through him. Adam and Eve actually DID have that prospect — everlasting life if they obeyed — and they lost it.

So if Jesus says everlasting life comes from eating and drinking, that really made me think — how do those who never eat and drink get everlasting life?

If we read the Bible without preconceived WT views, I don’t think we would reach the same conclusion as WT. The Bible is simple, WT complicates it.

 

[Goldie]

The title of this thread is “Many Called, Few Chosen” and the fact that many are called or invited but few are chosen or sealed, completely harmonizes with what is foretold about the anointed at Zechariah 13:8-9 that describes only a third of those invited will be sealed. Right now there are about 22,000 partaking worldwide. No doubt some are frauds but roughly one-third of those is more or less 7,000 and Revelation tells us that it is the 7,000 sealed anointed that die in an “earthquake” that brings to mind the earthquake that happened at Jesus’ death that tore the curtain in the sanctuary in two. In Jesus day, it was his death that had to happen for Christianity to then become the way to worship Jehovah beginning at Pentecost. Could the death of the 7,000 anointed ones, after their preaching 1,260, be the catalyst for the gathering of the Great Crowd? I think so. Just my understanding.

“NWT” Zechariah 3:8-9: “‘And in all the land,’ declares Jehovah, ‘Two parts in it will be cut off and perish; And the third part will be left remaining in it. And I will bring the third part through the fire; And I will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on my name, And I will answer them. I will say, “They are my people,” And they will say, “Jehovah is our God.”’”

“The Living Bible”, Revelation 11:13: “The same hour there will be a terrible earthquake that levels a tenth of the city, leaving 7,000 dead. Then everyone left will, in their terror, give glory to the God of heaven.”

“The Message Bible”, Matthew 27:50-53: “But Jesus, again crying out loudly, breathed his last. At that moment, the Temple curtain was ripped in two, top to bottom. There was an earthquake, and rocks were split in pieces. What’s more, tombs were opened up, and many bodies of believers asleep in their graves were raised. (After Jesus’ resurrection, they left the tombs, entered the holy city, and appeared to many.)”

I addressed that earlier to barn




Thanks Barn, I agree with your point that anointing is a calling, not a personal decision. And you quoted "many are called, few are chosen."
But, like you said, let's consider the context. In Matt 22:1-14 Jesus told of a king who invited many to a wedding feast. That invitation is the call. Many were invited. But one guest refused to wear the wedding garment, and others refused to come at all. So they were not allowed to stay. Only those who responded and were properly dressed were "chosen" to stay.
So "called" means Jehovah gives us an opportunity. "Chosen" means we respond with faith and remain faithful to the end. Jesus himself said: "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt 24:13)
I don't think it means the calling is only for the anointed. It means for BOTH hopes, heavenly and earthly, many hear the good news but only those faithful to death will be finally chosen for life.

That is why the emblems cannot mean "I claim to be a chosen king."

The emblems mean what Jesus said: "this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins." (Matt 26:28 NWT)

And Jesus said: "Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves." (John 6:53 NWT)

Paul told the whole congregation: "First let a man approve himself after scrutiny, and only then let him eat of the loaf and drink of the cup." (1 Cor 11:28 NWT) The requirement is a clean conscience, not a heavenly calling.

At Passover all had to eat the lamb (Ex 12:8). The priests had a different assignment, but the same lamb.

Where we live — heaven or earth — is Jehovah's decision to call and finally choose us for. But having faith in the Lamb's blood is required of all who want life.

Just something to consider.

 

[Goldie]

Ahhhhhhhh THIS IS WHY CHERRY DROPPED THE LINK AND RAN. I had no intention of having this battle but Im actually glad I did. It has really sharpened my understanding.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

I'm even more befuddled

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

GET OFF EASY!??? Ive been at this for THREE DAYS! This thread is making me want to partake right NOW! Barn, I see what you're saying about creation, but I like to keep it simple to what the Bible actually says.

Jesus didn't say we have no hope or no understanding — he said: "Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves" and then he defines it: "Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood HAS EVERLASTING LIFE." — John 6:53, 54 NWT

And 1 Cor 10:17 NWT says: "Because there is one loaf, we, although many, are one body, for we are all partaking of that one loaf."

It doesn't say we are one because we have a love of righteousness — it says we are one body BECAUSE we all partake of that one loaf. READ IT PLEASE!

That's what makes us one.

I did read it! I do understand what you are saying, but I view the matter by what is implied holistically to the theme of the bible. In other words taking the advice of Jesus using parables to explain meaning. I can’t claim to have insight over and above that.

Yes, these things are written as you say. But the parables and prophesies point to events figuratively. We are not going to see four horsemen in the sky. But we will see the results. The anointed will see Christ - we will not, but we will see the results. And so I just apply the same principles. I don’t really know how else I can express it but time will tell.

 

[Goldie]

I did read it! I do understand what you are saying, but I view the matter by what is implied holistically to the theme of the bible. In other words taking the advice of Jesus using parables to explain meaning. I can’t claim to have insight over and above that.

Yes, these things are written as you say. But the parables and prophesies point to events figuratively. We are not going to see four horsemen in the sky. But we will see the results. The anointed will see Christ - we will not, but we will see the results. And so I just apply the same principles. I don’t really know how else I can express it but time will tell.

I understand what youre saying Barn about looking at the theme and parables — but when Jesus instituted the Memorial he wasn’t speaking in a parable.

He took a loaf, said “This means my body” and “Drink, all of you” and Paul says at 1 Cor 10:17 “Because there is one loaf, we, although many, are one body, for we are all partaking of that one loaf.” NWT

That’s not figurative — that’s a direct command and an explanation of how we become one body.

I just keep thinking, if Jesus said we have no life in ourselves unless we eat and drink, and Paul says we become one body BECAUSE we all partake — how can most of us obey by NOT partaking?

Time will tell as you say.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

I understand what youre saying Barn about looking at the theme and parables — but when Jesus instituted the Memorial he wasn’t speaking in a parable.

He took a loaf, said “This means my body” and “Drink, all of you” and Paul says at 1 Cor 10:17 “Because there is one loaf, we, although many, are one body, for we are all partaking of that one loaf.” NWT

That’s not figurative — that’s a direct command and an explanation of how we become one body.

I just keep thinking, if Jesus said we have no life in ourselves unless we eat and drink, and Paul says we become one body BECAUSE we all partake — how can most of us obey by NOT partaking?

Time will tell as you say.

Maybe eating and drinking Jesus's body and blood is illustrative aswell, a bit like when Jesus talked with the Samarian woman at the well and on other occasions, he said about drinking the living water, which is not literal but demonstrates our faith in Jesus?

 

[Goldie]

Maybe eating and drinking Jesus's body and blood is illustrative aswell, a bit like when Jesus talked with the Samarian woman at the well and on other occasions, he said about drinking the living water, which is not literal but demonstrates our faith in Jesus?

Good thought about the living water — but with living water Jesus never handed them literal water and said "do this in remembrance of me."

With the bread and wine he did — literal bread, literal cup, and said "Drink, ALL of you." — Matt 26:27

Paul says we are one body FOR we are all partaking of that one loaf — 1 Cor 10:17. That only works if we actually partake.

So it seems more than just illustrative to me.

 

[Goldie]

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

One thing that pops into my mind about considering if partaking at the Memorial is only for the anointed or everyone is that beginning with Adam and Eve, humans never have had “life in themselves”. As Brother King has pointed out, giving the resurrected Chosen Ones, “life in themselves” is an answer to Satan’s challenge that Jehovah is withholding something good from humans. Humans were always purposed to rely on their lifegiver, Jehovah, to sustain their lives. That is what most humans will return to when Jehovah’s purpose for the earth is fulfilled. But with the Chosen Ones, they must die and relinquish human life, but they will be granted “life in themselves”. That is Jehovah’s reply to Satan’s taunt and something entirely new. Brother King explains it much better than I ever could.

NWT, Psalm 36:9: “With you is the source of life; By your light we can see light.”

The Rise and Fall of Satan the Devil

Who is Satan the Devil? Is he a work of fiction, a myth? Is he really a reddish-colored, horned creature with a tail and pitchfork? Perhaps devils and demons are just relics of the superstitious Dark Ages? Seriously, who could believe that Satan really resides in a

e-watchman.com

Great point.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I understand what youre saying Barn about looking at the theme and parables — but when Jesus instituted the Memorial he wasn’t speaking in a parable.

He took a loaf, said “This means my body” and “Drink, all of you” and Paul says at 1 Cor 10:17 “Because there is one loaf, we, although many, are one body, for we are all partaking of that one loaf.” NWT

That’s not figurative — that’s a direct command and an explanation of how we become one body.

I just keep thinking, if Jesus said we have no life in ourselves unless we eat and drink, and Paul says we become one body BECAUSE we all partake — how can most of us obey by NOT partaking?

Time will tell as you say.

Having read @SusanB reply to you I think she has answered that very point. The only thing I could add to that is our “partaking” of it is to support the anointed and be with them to show our allegiance to the principle. The Bible calls it the great crowd. Maybe that biblical point about holding on to the skirt of the Jew applies here - not sure, but someone will know if it applies. For me, I understood the division between the anointed and the great crowd as explained when I first read it here because it has that sense of truth to it, continuity and especially so as an answer to the satanic challenge, and so felt satisfied with it as truth. I have never read the truth of the Bible as something I want for myself in my own understanding, but as something I should have to understand whether I like it or not. Clearly I know nothing of spiritual entity per se, but I can recognise its spiritual methodology when I read it. I let go of my own desires for myself within what I want, I see instead from the Bible context, a sense of completion as to what I actually need. When I take that to myself, and live it for what it is, I actually get the sense of meaning in the spirit. It has a sense of peace and the reassurance of what faith translates as. It’s not transient like a Saturday emotive singsong at the local Pentecostal tent gathering, but something that sustains and satisfies the soul in peace and satiation of the spirit within us. I’m sure that’s not unique to me. Others here must know of it. I find it incredulous that cherry wont discuss the issue independent of her own beliefs. How on earth can one reason if they refuse to reason? It makes no sense. We stop learning.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

Saturday emotive singsong at the local Pentecostal tent gathering,

I had to go to one of these once, it was horrible! Never again

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I had to go to one of these once, it was horrible! Never again

“PRAISE THE LORD! “

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

“PRAISE THE LORD! “

I don't know about praising the lord but they were running up to the stage and some guy was laying his hands on them and speaking in some strange language I couldn't understand (although I could make out Jesus which they said a lot) and then the person would drop to the floor! they were doing it to kids too they were all loving it They're all mad I tell ya, mad!!

 

[Goldie]

Having read @SusanB reply to you I think she has answered that very point. The only thing I could add to that is our “partaking” of it is to support the anointed and be with them to show our allegiance to the principle. The Bible calls it the great crowd. Maybe that biblical point about holding on to the skirt of the Jew applies here - not sure, but someone will know if it applies. For me, I understood the division between the anointed and the great crowd as explained when I first read it here because it has that sense of truth to it, continuity and especially so as an answer to the satanic challenge, and so felt satisfied with it as truth. I have never read the truth of the Bible as something I want for myself in my own understanding, but as something I should have to understand whether I like it or not. Clearly I know nothing of spiritual entity per se, but I can recognise its spiritual methodology when I read it. I let go of my own desires for myself within what I want, I see instead from the Bible context, a sense of completion as to what I actually need. When I take that to myself, and live it for what it is, I actually get the sense of meaning in the spirit. It has a sense of peace and the reassurance of what faith translates as. It’s not transient like a Saturday emotive singsong at the local Pentecostal tent gathering, but something that sustains and satisfies the soul in peace and satiation of the spirit within us. I’m sure that’s not unique to me. Others here must know of it. I find it incredulous that cherry wont discuss the issue independent of her own beliefs. How on earth can one reason if they refuse to reason? It makes no sense. We stop learning.

Barn, thanks for explaining how you see it.

On partaking to "support the anointed" — that's the part I struggle with. In Luke 22 and 1 Cor 11, Jesus says "do this in remembrance of me." There's no mention of partaking as a gesture of support for others. If the great crowd is meant to be there as supporters but not partakers, where is that taught?

You mentioned Zechariah 8:23 about holding onto the skirt of the Jew. That's a beautiful prophecy, but in context it's about nations coming to Jehovah, not about one group of Christians watching another group partake.

I agree truth isn't about what we want, but what is true whether we like it or not. That's why I keep asking for scriptures that directly show two different ways of relating to Christ.

About Cherry — I think you misunderstood why she posted. She wasn't posting to debate. She said herself she knew she'd be battling if she tried to discuss it and her nervous system is fragile right now. She just shared it because it resonated with her and thought it might encourage whoever it resonated with. Not everything has to be a debate.

How about we agree to disagree and leave it at that? That's allowed.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

Barn, thanks for explaining how you see it.

On partaking to "support the anointed" — that's the part I struggle with. In Luke 22 and 1 Cor 11, Jesus says "do this in remembrance of me." There's no mention of partaking as a gesture of support for others. If the great crowd is meant to be there as supporters but not partakers, where is that taught?

You mentioned Zechariah 8:23 about holding onto the skirt of the Jew. That's a beautiful prophecy, but in context it's about nations coming to Jehovah, not about one group of Christians watching another group partake.

I agree truth isn't about what we want, but what is true whether we like it or not. That's why I keep asking for scriptures that directly show two different ways of relating to Christ.

About Cherry — I think you misunderstood why she posted. She wasn't posting to debate. She said herself she knew she'd be battling if she tried to discuss it and her nervous system is fragile right now. She just shared it because it resonated with her and thought it might encourage whoever it resonated with. Not everything has to be a debate.

How about we agree to disagree and leave it at that? That's allowed.

Of course!

 

[SusanB]

I addressed that earlier to barn




Thanks Barn, I agree with your point that anointing is a calling, not a personal decision. And you quoted "many are called, few are chosen."
But, like you said, let's consider the context. In Matt 22:1-14 Jesus told of a king who invited many to a wedding feast. That invitation is the call. Many were invited. But one guest refused to wear the wedding garment, and others refused to come at all. So they were not allowed to stay. Only those who responded and were properly dressed were "chosen" to stay.
So "called" means Jehovah gives us an opportunity. "Chosen" means we respond with faith and remain faithful to the end. Jesus himself said: "he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt 24:13)
I don't think it means the calling is only for the anointed. It means for BOTH hopes, heavenly and earthly, many hear the good news but only those faithful to death will be finally chosen for life.

That is why the emblems cannot mean "I claim to be a chosen king."

The emblems mean what Jesus said: "this means my ‘blood of the covenant,’ which is to be poured out in behalf of many for forgiveness of sins." (Matt 26:28 NWT)

And Jesus said: "Most truly I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves." (John 6:53 NWT)

Paul told the whole congregation: "First let a man approve himself after scrutiny, and only then let him eat of the loaf and drink of the cup." (1 Cor 11:28 NWT) The requirement is a clean conscience, not a heavenly calling.

At Passover all had to eat the lamb (Ex 12:8). The priests had a different assignment, but the same lamb.

Where we live — heaven or earth — is Jehovah's decision to call and finally choose us for. But having faith in the Lamb's blood is required of all who want life.

Just something to consider.

From my understanding and what makes sense to me is that the invitation to the wedding, which by the way is an illustration meaning it is to illustrate a point and not be literal, but the invitation was initially only to a specific group, like the Jews. The reason that Jesus also only preached to the Jews for his 3 1/2 years of preaching, was because they were the first to be invited to be anointed ones. Then, the invitation for anointing went to the Gentiles, but that was ONLY after the Jewish nation as a whole rejected the invitation and killed the Messiah. The invitation to the wedding was never the entire world. But if the Jews had not rejected their invitation, no one else would have been invited. That is what fits in my mind. So the point could not have been “salvation” but it was an invitation to be anointed. So, I see that as a very important point. Being a “priest” or “prince” or “king” only has meaning if it is restricted to a few and not everyone. I think it is worthwhile to discuss these matters but there are times when we must agree to disagree. There is really no need to be frustrated that other people don’t agree with you because we each have reasoning brains and people who read or experience the same thing, very often see the details differently.

From “The Christian Standard Bible”, Matthew 15:22-28: “Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came and kept crying out, ‘Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely tormented by a demon.’ Jesus did not say a word to her. His disciples approached him and urged him, ‘Send her away because she’s crying out after us.’ He replied, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ But she came, knelt before him, and said, ‘Lord, help me!’ He answered, ‘It isn’t right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.’ ‘Yes, Lord,’ she said, ‘yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.’ Then Jesus replied to her, ‘Woman, your faith is great. Let it be done for you as you want.’ And from that moment her daughter was healed.”

From “The Christian Standard Bible”, Matthew 10:5-6: “Jesus sent out these twelve after giving them instructions: ‘Don’t take the road that leads to the Gentiles, and don’t enter any Samaritan town. Instead, go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

From “The Christian Standard Bible”, Acts 13:46: “Paul and Barnabas boldly replied, ‘It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first. Since you reject it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, we are turning to the Gentiles.’”

From “The Christian Standard Bible” Exodus 19:5-6: “‘Now if you will carefully listen to me and keep my covenant, you will be my own possession out of all the peoples, although the whole earth is mine, and you will be my kingdom of priests and my holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”

From “The Christian Standard Bible”, Revelation 5:9-10: “And they sang a new song: You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals, because you were slaughtered, and you purchased people for God by your blood from every tribe and language and people and nation. You made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

As far as having “life in yourself” being the same meaning as “everlasting life”, that doesn’t work in my way of thinking. Being immortal or “having life in yourself” does include everlasting life but everlasting life doesn’t necessarily include being immortal or having life in oneself. It’s like saying flour and a cake are the same thing. A cake does have flour but without the other ingredients, flour is not a cake.

 

[Goldie]

From my understanding and what makes sense to me is that the invitation to the wedding, which by the way is an illustration meaning it is to illustrate a point and not be literal, but the invitation was initially only to a specific group, like the Jews. The reason that Jesus also only preached to the Jews for his 3 1/2 years of preaching, was because they were the first to be invited to be anointed ones. Then, the invitation for anointing went to the Gentiles, but that was ONLY after the Jewish nation as a whole rejected the invitation and killed the Messiah. The invitation to the wedding was never the entire world. But if the Jews had not rejected their invitation, no one else would have been invited. That is what fits in my mind. So the point could not have been “salvation” but it was an invitation to be anointed. So, I see that as a very important point. Being a “priest” or “prince” or “king” only has meaning if it is restricted to a few and not everyone. I think it is worthwhile to discuss these matters but there are times when we must agree to disagree. There is really no need to be frustrated that other people don’t agree with you because we each have reasoning brains and people who read or experience the same thing, very often see the details differently.

From “The Christian Standard Bible”, Matthew 15:22-28: “Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came and kept crying out, ‘Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David! My daughter is severely tormented by a demon.’ Jesus did not say a word to her. His disciples approached him and urged him, ‘Send her away because she’s crying out after us.’ He replied, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ But she came, knelt before him, and said, ‘Lord, help me!’ He answered, ‘It isn’t right to take the children’s bread and throw it to the dogs.’ ‘Yes, Lord,’ she said, ‘yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.’ Then Jesus replied to her, ‘Woman, your faith is great. Let it be done for you as you want.’ And from that moment her daughter was healed.”

From “The Christian Standard Bible”, Matthew 10:5-6: “Jesus sent out these twelve after giving them instructions: ‘Don’t take the road that leads to the Gentiles, and don’t enter any Samaritan town. Instead, go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

From “The Christian Standard Bible”, Acts 13:46: “Paul and Barnabas boldly replied, ‘It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first. Since you reject it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, we are turning to the Gentiles.’”

From “The Christian Standard Bible” Exodus 19:5-6: “‘Now if you will carefully listen to me and keep my covenant, you will be my own possession out of all the peoples, although the whole earth is mine, and you will be my kingdom of priests and my holy nation.’ These are the words that you are to say to the Israelites.”

From “The Christian Standard Bible”, Revelation 5:9-10: “And they sang a new song: You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals, because you were slaughtered, and you purchased people for God by your blood from every tribe and language and people and nation. You made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

As far as having “life in yourself” being the same meaning as “everlasting life”, that doesn’t work in my way of thinking. Being immortal or “having life in yourself” does include everlasting life but everlasting life doesn’t necessarily include being immortal or having life in oneself. It’s like saying flour and a cake are the same thing. A cake does have flour but without the other ingredients, flour is not a cake.

I just want to be clear where I'm coming from. I'm not claiming I understand everything fully — I'm still researching and searching for truth on this because I feel this topic is extremely important.

I'm not trying to sway anyone. I do get frustrated sometimes, that's just my personality, and I think Barn felt the same way which is why I told him let's just agree to disagree.

I think it's incumbent on all of us to analyze what we've been taught and never questioned from the WT. This two-hope doctrine came from Rutherford, and his past teachings are very questionable.

I think it's important to dive into these topics so we have a very clear understanding as to why we do what we do. I think conversations like this really get us thinking. I'm just trying to follow what the Bible actually says and test all things as we're told to do — 1 Thess 5:21.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

This two-hope doctrine came from Rutherford,

So there's only ONE hope?? I "hope" it's not heaven

 

[Goldie]

So there's only ONE hope?? I "hope" it's not heaven

No, Im saying the doctrine came from Rutherford and its worth fully analyzing.
We're ridiculed for this belief and many quote ephesians 4:4-6 about there being one hope. This is what im researching.
Yes, I believe in an Earthly hope for sure. But I'll admit I have questions about many passages.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

No, Im saying the doctrine came from Rutherford and its worth fully analyzing.
We're ridiculed for this belief and many quote ephesians 4:4-6 about there being one hope. This is what im researching.
Yes, I believe in an Earthly hope for sure. But I'll admit I have questions about many passages.

Living on the earth is such a huge part of the Bible's message, and until just before they locked us all up, I'd never met anyone else who wasn't a JW believing in living on the earth (as a human, as YOU ) It's almost as if anyone who studies the Bible or professes to be a Christian only sees the "heaven" bit..