Monday, March 4th - Will there be a world government?

As I stated earlier, I won't discuss the possibility that the 7th king is not ruling. In my mind, that is clear as day that the United States is most certainly the 7th head of the beast. Any conclusions that you come to from the aspect of this not being true, are completely invalid in my mind.
 
As I stated earlier, I won't discuss the possibility that the 7th king is not ruling. In my mind, that is clear as day that the United States is most certainly the 7th head of the beast. Any conclusions that you come to from the aspect of this not being true, are completely invalid in my mind.
Very WT of you...
 
Daniel chapter 7 describes beasts, while Daniel chapter 2 describes kingdoms. Daniel 7 doesn't give any explanation of how the beasts fit in with the kingdoms. The dream Daniel had was showing the future, so the 1st beast was probably Medo-Persia, the 2nd Greece, the 3rd Rome and the 4th is either the UK/US as you believe, or possibly the complete NWO beast that rules for 42 months. I'm fine with either being true, as it doesn't affect my faith one way or the other. I'm just not sold on the fact that the 7th head is currently ruling; versus the possibility that the City of London is simply the continuation of Rome. As we all know, when Rome fell, the Holy Roman Empire took the reins. So, IMHO it's entirely possible the City of London became the KOTN as part of the 6th head, and the Vatican remained the KOTS, also part of the 6th head. Then, the KOTS moved to the US after the Revolutionary War.
That isn't to say that there isn't things to discuss, I just won't discuss that. The City of London however, and being a continuation of Rome, that's another story. The City of London, or rather those that run it, are most certainly part of the little horn that grows mighty and as you said is the KON. As we know the little horn that grows mighty becomes the eighth king, therefore this would make sense to tie the two together.
 
The little horn that grows mighty also rides upon the head of the ferocious beast. When we look to the occult and the 'hidden wisdom', this ideology has always hidden behind the lies of mainstream religion. More often than not using it as a tool to wield their influence. How easy it is to profess to be 'Christian' when in fact you are an agent of Satan. As we know, those who run the City of London are most certainly a part of the Freemasonic teachings and rituals that pervade the elite aristocrats who put on a form of religious sanctimony, but are truly controlled by the truly deeper hidden mysteries they pledge themselves to when they are initiated into the sacred knowledge.
 
That isn't to say that there isn't things to discuss, I just won't discuss that. The City of London however, and being a continuation of Rome, that's another story. The City of London, or rather those that run it, are most certainly part of the little horn that grows mighty and as you said is the KON. As we know the little horn that grows mighty becomes the eighth king, therefore this would make sense to tie the two together.
I respect having an unmovable opinion, but the official JW position on 1914 is equally as unmovable... until it isn't. Does it matter whether the US/UK is the 7th head or the 6th? I don't think so. If the coming global, all powerful NWO is actually the 7th head, it doesn't change anything. It's all just a matter of semantics. I'm just unwilling to have an unbending opinion on something I can't prove. If anyone can use the Bible to answer my quesions, I'd appreciate it.
 
The little horn that grows mighty also rides upon the head of the ferocious beast. When we look to the occult and the 'hidden wisdom', this ideology has always hidden behind the lies of mainstream religion. More often than not using it as a tool to wield their influence. How easy it is to profess to be 'Christian' when in fact you are an agent of Satan. As we know, those who run the City of London are most certainly a part of the Freemasonic teachings and rituals that pervade the elite aristocrats who put on a form of religious sanctimony, but are truly controlled by the truly deeper hidden mysteries they pledge themselves to when they are initiated into the sacred knowledge.
You're probably right, and the 7th head is ruling... I just have a problem with the "short while" it's said to rule being 300 years, knowing Satan's short while is only 42 months. Like I said, either being true is fine with me.

As for the little horn, that could happen early on in the 7th beast's rule if it is during the HOT.
 
I respect having an unmovable opinion, but the official JW position on 1914 is equally as unmovable... until it isn't. Does it matter whether the US/UK is the 7th head or the 6th? I don't think so. If the coming global, all powerful NWO is actually the 7th head, it doesn't change anything. It's all just a matter of semantics. I'm just unwilling to have an unbending opinion on something I can't prove. If anyone can use the Bible to answer my quesions, I'd appreciate it.

Yes, but the 1914 is easily disprovable, because it is a lie in the first place, and once truth is applied through reasoning it crashes to the ground. There is nothing in the bible that states '1914 is a lie' is there? It must be reasoned upon through critical examination of the scriptures, and through historical evidence. Thus, it is not something that can be proven simply by using the bible.

The 'short while' was in relationship to the 7th head. Where do align the 'short while' to the 42 months? In fact, the ten kings who give their power to the beast is said to be for only one hour. I suppose one could say this is a 'short while', but if we reason on the time that the other kingdoms ruled who were the seven heads, they were much longer than a symbolic 'one hour' I would guess.

(Re 17:12) “. . .And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast.”

Perhaps the 'one hour' is the 1260? 1290? 1335?
 
I respect having an unmovable opinion, but the official JW position on 1914 is equally as unmovable... until it isn't. Does it matter whether the US/UK is the 7th head or the 6th? I don't think so. If the coming global, all powerful NWO is actually the 7th head, it doesn't change anything. It's all just a matter of semantics. I'm just unwilling to have an unbending opinion on something I can't prove. If anyone can use the Bible to answer my quesions, I'd appreciate it.
Carl, its not JUST semantics. This is why I don't want to go on a speculation vacation with you because you consider all things as possible.

You ask does it matter if the US/UK is the 6th or 7th head. Of course it matters, how on earth can you even wonder this? With this type of reasoning, we can ask does any of what the bible says really matter Carl? My goodness.
 
Yes, but the 1914 is easily disprovable, because it is a lie in the first place, and once truth is applied through reasoning it crashes to the ground. There is nothing in the bible that states '1914 is a lie' is there? It must be reasoned upon through critical examination of the scriptures, and through historical evidence. Thus, it is not something that can be proven simply by using the bible.

The 'short while' was in relationship to the 7th head. Where do align the 'short while' to the 42 months? In fact, the ten kings who give their power to the beast is said to be for only one hour. I suppose one could say this is a 'short while', but if we reason on the time that the other kingdoms ruled who were the seven heads, they were much longer than a symbolic 'one hour' I would guess.

(Re 17:12) “. . .And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast.”

Perhaps the 'one hour' is the 1260? 1290? 1335?
I'm also using reasoning skills and critically examining the scriptures, which is why I still have questions. Rev. 17:10 tells us the 7th head "must remain a short while." Rev. 12:12 tells us Satan's "short period of time" is 42 months. Short period definately equals 42 months... we know that for sure, but short while could be 300 years or 42 months, I'm not convinced either way. The other 6 heads don't have a time reference attached to them, only the 7th head does.
 
Carl, its not JUST semantics. This is why I don't want to go on a speculation vacation with you because you consider all things as possible.

You ask does it matter if the US/UK is the 6th or 7th head. Of course it matters, how on earth can you even wonder this? With this type of reasoning, we can ask does any of what the bible says really matter Carl? My goodness.
How does it matter which is true? Does it affect your faith or preparation for the HOT? It doesn't affect me in the slightest. I'm preparing for the collapse of the 6th or 7th head regardless of which is ruling. All I can say for sure is we're not in the HOT.
 
I'm also using reasoning skills and critically examining the scriptures, which is why I still have questions. Rev. 17:10 tells us the 7th head "must remain a short while." Rev. 12:12 tells us Satan's "short period of time" is 42 months. Short period definately equals 42 months... we know that for sure, but short while could be 300 years or 42 months, I'm not convinced either way. The other 6 heads don't have a time reference attached to them, only the 7th head does.
Thank you for the scriptures, it most certainly helps when we discuss these things. At least now we can see how you are coming up with your perspective from the scriptures you provide.

How does it matter which is true? Does it affect your faith or preparation for the HOT? It doesn't affect me in the slightest. I'm preparing for the collapse of the 6th or 7th head regardless of which is ruling. All I can say for sure is we're not in the HOT.

Another way of asking your question is "how does it matter which is not true?" I would hope looking at it from that perspective highlights the value of truth, especially when it concerns the bible, and what Jehovah has given us. Yes, it does affect my faith, because we build that faith on truth, which is why YOU are searching for it, is it not? So, you must then acknowledge that truth does matter to you as well, and that it does affect you more than just slightly, because you yourself are preparing for something that you believe to be true.

I'm sorry if I come across so brusque, but it is truly tiring to try and sort out these things all over again, when we already know certain things to be true. Perhaps we should start over. I think the key to understanding Revelation is most certainly understanding Daniel, as Revelation was written after, and even more so it has the symbolism of Daniel written throughout. Can we start there?
 
Thank you for the scriptures, it most certainly helps when we discuss these things. At least now we can see how you are coming up with your perspective from the scriptures you provide.



Another way of asking your question is "how does it matter which is not true?" I would hope looking at it from that perspective highlights the value of truth, especially when it concerns the bible, and what Jehovah has given us. Yes, it does affect my faith, because we build that faith on truth, which is why YOU are searching for it, is it not? So, you must then acknowledge that truth does matter to you as well, and that it does affect you more than just slightly, because you yourself are preparing for something that you believe to be true.

I'm sorry if I come across so brusque, but it is truly tiring to try and sort out these things all over again, when we already know certain things to be true. Perhaps we should start over. I think the key to understanding Revelation is most certainly understanding Daniel, as Revelation was written after, and even more so it has the symbolism of Daniel written throughout. Can we start there?
I agree it is tiring to rethink topics we believe we know, but Rev. 17:9 is the only place in the Bible that specifically calls for wisdom... so I'm revisiting a subject I assumed I knew. I'm definitely not willing to question the trinity, Jehovah's name, the condition of the dead... and I've let go of other lines of thought so I don't tire out. Much of our understanding requires reasoning skills; Jeptha's daughter, the trinity, 144,000 vs. the GC, 1,000 year Kingdom...

"Does it matter which is not true?" IMHO, now that we've gone over this topic, no, but in doing so I feel I have a better understanding of Revelation 13 & 17 and Daniel 2 & 7. Whether the 6th or 7th head is ruling, my faith is the same. One of them will soon get a mortal wound and the HOT will start. If you can show me how it matters, I'd appreciate it. The reason I brought this up in the first place was to make sure it doesn't matter... and now I don't think it does. I just didn't know that until we worked these thoughts out to where we are right now. It was something that's been bothering me for a while, but now that we've discussed it, I realized it doesn't matter what we call the current beast, our Kingdom is in Heaven.
 
The scarlet color of the beast rising from the Grave or abyss may denote its rage, reflecting the great anger of the dragon after it is hurled down from heaven and causes a mortal wound to the head of the beast.
(Mt 27:27-28) “. . .Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the governor’s palace and gathered the whole body of troops together to him. 28 And disrobing him, they draped him with a scarlet cloak. . .”

Being that scarlet is the color of royalty, the scarlet color on the beast more readily identifies the risen beast as now being the 8th King of prophecy. This seems more in line with what the scarlet color denotes in the scripture.

(Quote from former article) That being the case, so is the ascension of the two-horned beast. The beast rising up from the earth symbolizes the beast returning from the grave – the abyss – coinciding with the seemingly slaughtered head coming back to life.

Although your interpretation could be right in what the earth symbolizes in that scripture, it could also be looked at from another perspective that is interpreted from the bible regarding what earthly means.

(Jas 3:15) “. . .This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is the earthly, animal, demonic.”

This interpretation can also be just as valid regarding what earthly means in Rev 13:11-12.

I understand you firmly believe the wild beast that rises from the abyss, the 8th king, and the two horned beast(false prophet) to be one in the same. Yet, you do have certain things that must be reconciled before this can be determined as true. Regardless of your perspective, you must acknowledge that the two are clearly presented as being two distinct entities.

(Re 13:11-12) “. . .And I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking as a dragon. 12 And it exercises all the authority of the first wild beast in its sight.. . .”​

(Re 19:20) “. . .And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur.”​


 
If you can show me how it matters, I'd appreciate it.
I thought I already did. The fact that you are peering into these things says as much...that it matters. Now you say it doesn't really matter, diminishing the importance of it within you. That doesn't mean that it doesn't matter though, it just means that you are content with what you already know as truth. You are not wrong, we don't need to understand the things written as long as we have faith in Jehovah through his son Jesus Christ and that Jesus is our King. I think we all agree with those sentiments and put our entire hope in them. However, there are many things other than these that build our faith in that hope. Most notably is prophecy, as it is what differentiates the bible from anything else written.

So, I don't honestly know if I can show YOU how it matters, if you have already determined it to not matter, I can only tell you why it matters to me, and perhaps others who are peering into these things such as you were. Perhaps in discussing these things, I can show you how it matters, or you can show me why it doesn't, either way if we do discuss them, I think it is important that we start off on things that we already know to be true and build from there. I would rather build on truth, than try to discern it through lies...
 
I thought I already did. The fact that you are peering into these things says as much...that it matters. Now you say it doesn't really matter, diminishing the importance of it within you. That doesn't mean that it doesn't matter though, it just means that you are content with what you already know as truth. You are not wrong, we don't need to understand the things written as long as we have faith in Jehovah through his son Jesus Christ and that Jesus is our King. I think we all agree with those sentiments and put our entire hope in them. However, there are many things other than these that build our faith in that hope. Most notably is prophecy, as it is what differentiates the bible from anything else written.

So, I don't honestly know if I can show YOU how it matters, if you have already determined it to not matter, I can only tell you why it matters to me, and perhaps others who are peering into these things such as you were. Perhaps in discussing these things, I can show you how it matters, or you can show me why it doesn't, either way if we do discuss them, I think it is important that we start off on things that we already know to be true and build from there. I would rather build on truth, than try to discern it through lies...
You're right, it doesn't matter to me which head is ruling, but I'd be interested to know why it matters to you. I'm interested in most of the topics we debate, but in the end I don't care if I'm right so long as I remain faithful. Take the MOTB as an example. I don't care what form it comes in, I just plan to avoid it. All the discussions on what it could be only helps me prepare to avoid it, so I enjoy seeing the topic debated from all angles. IMHO... the more information the better.
 

More food for thought...​

The rise of the last king​

King Nebuchadnezzar's Dream of an Immense Image As Revealed by Daniel- Dan. Chapters 2 and 7​

IMG_20171115_213335_061.JPG

The fact is, the Revealer of secrets has not disclosed the meaning of Daniel’s prophecy to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Daniel was told to seal up the book until the time of the end, also called the final part of the days. The Watchtower’s fatal folly is their undying attachment to 1914 as the beginning of the time of the end. Because of that error, everything is askew.

The correct interpretation of the significance of the colossal metallic image must take into consideration that Revelation reveals the existence of an eighth king who springs from the seven. Of course, Daniel lived after the first two empires had already come and gone; namely, Egypt and Assyria. That is why Daniel only presents us with five kingdoms, which we understand to be Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome and the Anglo-American empire. What about the eighth king? Is it of no significance? On the contrary, the eighth king is what is represented by the image itself. That is why Daniel said that the dream reveals what is to happen in the final part of the days. That is when the eighth king springs to life.

Appropriately, the image rests on the feet of iron and clay. In the more detailed prophecy of the kings of the north and south, both kingdoms are said to collaborate in putting in place a disgusting thing. It seems most probable that the Watchtower is correct in identifying the United Nations as the disgusting thing.

However, as the inheritor of the Roman Empire London still rules the world by means of the monetarist system. To underscore that fact, most nations have a central bank. All the nations of the European Union are under the authority of the European Central Bank, which establishes the volume and price of the Euro. The United States Federal Reserve Bank, which came into existence in 1913, functions similarly. The Fed is a privately owned corporation whose anonymous shareholders are undoubtedly the same handful of aristocratic families aligned with the British and European monarchies. So, the most powerful nation on earth is forced to borrow money from a private banking cartel that is one of the foundational pillars of the British Empire.

> https://e-watchman.com/43100-2/
 
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You raise an interesting point, Carl. The 7th chapter of Daniel only lists four beasts that descend from Babylon. Two came before. Egypt and Assyria. So, Daniel's vision does not include the seventh king. Instead, it pictures the three horns that are plucked out. So, the unusually ferocious beast with 10 horns and a later 11th horn, must picture the Roman beast and its modern incarnation, that being the British Empire. And it is the core of the aristocrats grouped around the British Crown and City of London that creates the last kingdom, the little horn that grows bigger and bigger.
It does appear that the 3rd horn that will be plucked is France. Apparently Britain and France just took a hard turn left in the recent elections (as is they weren't already left!) The US dollar will collapse the American financial system.

 
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