More gaslighting in tonight's meeting

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

"What can we learn from Paul’s words to the Thessalonians? When we hear something that does not harmonize with what we have learned from the Bible or when we hear a sensational rumor, we need to use discernment. In the former Soviet Union, our enemies once circulated a letter that was allegedly from world headquarters. The letter encouraged some of the brothers to form aseparate, independent organization. The letter itself appeared to be genuine. But faithful brothers were not fooled. They realized that the message the letter contained did not line up with what they had been taught. Today, enemies of the truth sometimes use modern technology in an effort to confuse and divide us. Rather than be quickly shaken from our reason, we can protect ourselves by considering whether what we hear or read is in harmony with the truths we have already learned."

By putting the above advice into practice exactly, back in 2020/21, when listening to the GB, I concluded it was not in harmony with the truths I had already learned. So why is it that I would think twice about saying this to my congregation elders?

The "doublespeak" is never ending..

 

[a believer]

Hmm... I wonder what they would make of the apostle Paul's action, then:

All they did was argue contentiously and contradict him at every turn. Totally exasperated, Paul had finally had it with them and gave it up as a bad job. "Have it your way, then," he said. "You've made your bed; now lie in it. From now on I'm spending my time with the other nations." —Acts 18:6 The Message

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

Hmm... I wonder what they would make of the apostle Paul's action, then:

All they did was argue contentiously and contradict him at every turn. Totally exasperated, Paul had finally had it with them and gave it up as a bad job. "Have it your way, then," he said. "You've made your bed; now lie in it. From now on I'm spending my time with the other nations." —Acts 18:6 The Message

—Timothy,
a believer.

They would probably just "argue contentiously and contradict"

 

[Patricia]

"What can we learn from Paul’s words to the Thessalonians? When we hear something that does not harmonize with what we have learned from the Bible or when we hear a sensational rumor, we need to use discernment. In the former Soviet Union, our enemies once circulated a letter that was allegedly from world headquarters. The letter encouraged some of the brothers to form aseparate, independent organization. The letter itself appeared to be genuine. But faithful brothers were not fooled. They realized that the message the letter contained did not line up with what they had been taught. Today, enemies of the truth sometimes use modern technology in an effort to confuse and divide us. Rather than be quickly shaken from our reason, we can protect ourselves by considering whether what we hear or read is in harmony with the truths we have already learned."

By putting the above advice into practice exactly, back in 2020/21, when listening to the GB, I concluded it was not in harmony with the truths I had already learned. So why is it that I would think twice about saying this to my congregation elders?

The "doublespeak" is never ending..

Just about word for word what was said at our meeting. We really are uniform aren't we.

And yes, doublespeak.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

Just about word for word what was said at our meeting. We really are uniform aren't we.

And yes, doublespeak.

That's cos I copied and pasted it out of the "work book"

 

[Jerry&Phyllis]

Below is an actual excerpt from the 1996 Watchtower which addresses this point.
*** w96 5/15 p. 16 par. 5 Read God’s Word and Serve Him in Truth ***
"God’s truth is a priceless treasure. Finding it requires digging, persistent searching of the Scriptures. Only as childlike pupils of the Grand Instructor do we gain wisdom and come to understand the reverential fear of Jehovah. (Proverbs 1:7; Isaiah 30:20, 21) Of course, we should prove things Scripturally. (1 Peter 2:1, 2) Jews in Beroea “were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things [said by Paul] were so. The Beroeans were commended rather than rebuked for doing this."—Acts 17:10, 11.

So, why does the organization "rebuke" (remove) us for doing this same thing today......examining/questioning what they say and they're not apostles?


"To see whether these things were so"
This scripture actually admonished the 1st century Jews to examine/question the words of the Apostle Paul as to whether they were true.
So let's see if we understand this correctly? It's okay to question an apostle (the Apostle Paul) but we can't question the governing body.

Everyone should definitely read this WT article, which was written only 30 years ago.
Today, the emphasis has shifted from "examining the scriptures" to "obeying the direction of the governing body".

From the NWT Bible
(Acts 17:10, 11) . . .Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas to Be·roeʹa. On arriving, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so." (NWT)

From the NIV Bible
(Acts 17:10, 11) . . . Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (NIV)

 

[a believer]

So let's see if we understand this correctly? It's okay to question an apostle (the Apostle Paul) but we can't question the governing body.

This just reinforces my long-standing impression that they claim the same infallibility that Roman Catholicism's Papacy claims. Birds of a feather.

Of course, the published statements have always been a denial of infallibility, but if one cannot question the Governing Body then it is self-evident that they consider themselves above questioning and correction.

So, yes, they aren't claiming to be infallible— they are insisting on it.

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[Nomex]

My brother (he's an elder and 12 years older than me) sent me a text message Sunday, about the WT study "the truth in a nutshell? " It was everything I could do to avoid sending him back..."the Jews in Jesus day were also 'Jehovah's Organization' and they ere so equally sure that they had 'Jehovah's direction' that they killed Jehovah's only begotten son, Jesus Christ."


I came very close, but there are a couple of reasons why I did not...he told me not that long ago, "I still see you as that snot nosed brat you were growing up." So for now I endure and wait for the right time. I woke up three or four times that night and prayed about it intensely. I noticed something it that WT though. One way they claim to be directed by Jehovah is Jesus prophesied the preaching work would be done during the time of the end and sited Matt 24:14...there's just one problem, if Jesus did NOT return in 1914 then this is NOT the time of the end!!!


The more I think about it the more I am convinced they in fact are NOT preaching the "good news." How is it possible Jehovah and Jesus would endorse a message completely predicated on the lie if 1914! Their "good news" is that Jesus is now reining in heaven. The entire preaching work is anchored to that lie. No, I am now convinced that it will be the "two witnesses" who carry out the preaching of the good news. It will be "good news" to those who accept God's Kingdom, (which is also the whole point of the MOTB,) and a message of judgment to those who do NOT listen. I also believe this is confirmed by the "42 months" or 3, 1/2 years. When Jesus began his first ministry that lasted for 3, 1/2 years, then he was killed. Another 3 1/2 years (and the 'two witnesses are killed') equals 7, the Bible's number for perfection.

I have been saying for a while now, WT has lost all credibility, and why would anyone listen to them now? And all the signs are there. Anyone who did not report art least 1 hour a month 3 months in a row, was NOT counted as a 'publisher" and was NOT counted in the annual report as "one of Jehovah's' Witnesses." A couple weeks ago, my wife was sent a message by one of our elders asking her to report time...we not only have not reported time in a few years now, but have also have stopped attending meetings ever since Covid.

If they are "Jehovah's Org" then why claim Jehovah is blessing them, when he clearly is NOT! Of course that's just an "apostate driven lie."

And one last thing, and we all know this, if Jesus appeared today just as he did 2,000 years ago, the 30 year old "upstart" that he was the GB would treat him exactly the way the Pharisee's did! Miracles and all. Keep in mind the Jew's had a better claim to being "Jehovah's Org" than the WT EVER HAS! Jehovah himself established that nation! But I keep saying this, it demonstrates irrefutably, two things, why humility is absolutely essential for Jehovah's servants, especially those taking the lead, and also, "it does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his steps." The whole thing reminds me of the warning Jehovah gave the Jews about wanting a King, like the nations. The difference again however is the p[people demanded a King, the GB have appointed themselves as our "Kings". But still history is repeating.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

My brother (he's an elder and 12 years older than me) sent me a text message Sunday, about the WT study "the truth in a nutshell? " It was everything I could do to avoid sending him back..."the Jews in Jesus day were also 'Jehovah's Organization' and they ere so equally sure that they had 'Jehovah's direction' that they killed Jehovah's only begotten son, Jesus Christ."


I came very close, but there are a couple of reasons why I did not...he told me not that long ago, "I still see you as that snot nosed brat you were growing up." So for now I endure and wait for the right time. I woke up three or four times that night and prayed about it intensely. I noticed something it that WT though. One way they claim to be directed by Jehovah is Jesus prophesied the preaching work would be done during the time of the end and sited Matt 24:14...there's just one problem, if Jesus did NOT return in 1914 then this is NOT the time of the end!!!


The more I think about it the more I am convinced they in fact are NOT preaching the "good news." How is it possible Jehovah and Jesus would endorse a message completely predicated on the lie if 1914! Their "good news" is that Jesus is now reining in heaven. The entire preaching work is anchored to that lie. No, I am now convinced that it will be the "two witnesses" who carry out the preaching of the good news. It will be "good news" to those who accept God's Kingdom, (which is also the whole point of the MOTB,) and a message of judgment to those who do NOT listen. I also believe this is confirmed by the "42 months" or 3, 1/2 years. When Jesus began his first ministry that lasted for 3, 1/2 years, then he was killed. Another 3 1/2 years (and the 'two witnesses are killed') equals 7, the Bible's number for perfection.

I have been saying for a while now, WT has lost all credibility, and why would anyone listen to them now? And all the signs are there. Anyone who did not report art least 1 hour a month 3 months in a row, was NOT counted as a 'publisher" and was NOT counted in the annual report as "one of Jehovah's' Witnesses." A couple weeks ago, my wife was sent a message by one of our elders asking her to report time...we not only have not reported time in a few years now, but have also have stopped attending meetings ever since Covid.

If they are "Jehovah's Org" then why claim Jehovah is blessing them, when he clearly is NOT! Of course that's just an "apostate driven lie."

And one last thing, and we all know this, if Jesus appeared today just as he did 2,000 years ago, the 30 year old "upstart" that he was the GB would treat him exactly the way the Pharisee's did! Miracles and all. Keep in mind the Jew's had a better claim to being "Jehovah's Org" than the WT EVER HAS! Jehovah himself established that nation! But I keep saying this, it demonstrates irrefutably, two things, why humility is absolutely essential for Jehovah's servants, especially those taking the lead, and also, "it does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his steps." The whole thing reminds me of the warning Jehovah gave the Jews about wanting a King, like the nations. The difference again however is the p[people demanded a King, the GB have appointed themselves as our "Kings". But still history is repeating.

“The more I think about it the more I am convinced they in fact are NOT preaching the "good news."

I have often thought the same. But several points stood in my mind. They have preached the basic message warning of the tribulation. But, they have not spoken all of the truth about it, and lied, and bought honour for themselves. They have no love amongst themselves - they may well think they do, but they are hardly prepared for the test to come when they need to know Jehovah well enough in faith, to put others before themselves and their lives in the line for Him. They have a facsimile of the truth in human form. One can not build faith upon sand, or express it - it has no foundation.

What came to my mind, having been here a few years now, was that when we hold up what we know about the truth to that of watchtower, just how much more clearly does the light shine? These past years I have held everything up in comparison to watchtower and each time I look at what the bible says about the subject, their interpretation holds a light up to it to compare it against. How much easier is it in these cases to see the truth of the matter compared with their ‘invisible truth’.

It’s not dissimilar to what you were saying about the Jews in the time of Christ telling their lies to the apostles! The watchtower is appointed for destruction as we well know, but at present, they serve the purpose they were appointed for. Those within who see it, will have their opportunity.

 

[a believer]

But several points stood in my mind. They have preached the basic message warning of the tribulation. But, they have not spoken all of the truth about it, and lied, and bought honour for themselves.

I remember well the example a visiting circuit overseer used in one of his talks, the illustration of a glass of water. It looks clean and safe, but if we knew that there was even a drop of poison in it, would we drink the water? That example has stayed with me ever since.

The Society used a similar example, that of contaminated food...

Besides the threat of spiritual starvation, there is another danger we need to be aware of—the type of food that we eat may itself be contaminated. Taking in teachings infected by dangerous demonic ideas can poison us just as easily as can eating physical food that has been tainted with germs or toxins. (Colossians 2:8) It is not always easy to spot poisonous food. “Food,” says one authority, “may sometimes appear quite wholesome and yet harbour pathogenic bacteria.” So we do well to examine the source of our figurative food... —1997 Watchtower April 15 issue, page 30

That last part, about how we do well to examine the source of our figurative food goes precisely to the point raised by @Jerry&Phyllis in their post earlier this morning, and how the Society— over the last 30 years— has moved from encouraging the brothers and sisters to make sure of all things to simply trusting the Governing Body on every matter.

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

has moved from encouraging the brothers and sisters to make sure of all things to simply trusting the Governing Body on every matter.

Summed up perfectly Timothy..

 

[Jerry&Phyllis]

how the Society— over the last 30 years— has moved from encouraging the brothers and sisters to make sure of all things to simply trusting the Governing Body on every matter.

"To see whether these things were so"
This scripture actually admonished the 1st century Jews to examine/question the words of the Apostle Paul as to whether they were true.
So let's see if we understand this correctly? It's okay to question an apostle (the Apostle Paul) but we can't question the governing body.

And by doing so, (declaring themselves above scrutiny/questioning), they are fulfilling Paul's words at 2Thessolonians 2:4.

2 Thess 2:4......."He'll defy and then take over every so-called god or altar. Having cleared away the opposition, he'll then set himself up in God's Temple as "God Almighty". (The Message Bible)

2 Thess 2:4......."He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publily showing himself to be 'a god'".(NWT)

The Governing Body has "cleared away the opposition" (the Apostles)_and "elevated" themselves to the position of "a god" or "God Almighty" (depending on the translation) just as Paul stated.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

And by doing so, (declaring themselves above scrutiny/questioning), they are fulfilling Paul's words at 2Thessolonians 2:4.

2 Thess 2:4......."He'll defy and then take over every so-called god or altar. Having cleared away the opposition, he'll then set himself up in God's Temple as "God Almighty". (The Message Bible)

2 Thess 2:4......."He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publily showing himself to be 'a god'".(NWT)

The Governing Body has "cleared away the opposition" (the Apostles)_and "elevated" themselves to the position of "a god" or "God Almighty" (depending on the translation) just as Paul stated.

That opposition was Anthony Morris

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

And by doing so, (declaring themselves above scrutiny/questioning), they are fulfilling Paul's words at 2Thessolonians 2:4.

2 Thess 2:4......."He'll defy and then take over every so-called god or altar. Having cleared away the opposition, he'll then set himself up in God's Temple as "God Almighty". (The Message Bible)

2 Thess 2:4......."He stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he sits down in the temple of God, publily showing himself to be 'a god'".(NWT)

The Governing Body has "cleared away the opposition" (the Apostles)_and "elevated" themselves to the position of "a god" or "God Almighty" (depending on the translation) just as Paul stated.

They fulfil their purpose. Modern day Judas. They don’t have to. But like Judas, they think it the right thing to do.

 

[Melinda Riling]

Below is an actual excerpt from the 1996 Watchtower which addresses this point.
*** w96 5/15 p. 16 par. 5 Read God’s Word and Serve Him in Truth ***
"God’s truth is a priceless treasure. Finding it requires digging, persistent searching of the Scriptures. Only as childlike pupils of the Grand Instructor do we gain wisdom and come to understand the reverential fear of Jehovah. (Proverbs 1:7; Isaiah 30:20, 21) Of course, we should prove things Scripturally. (1 Peter 2:1, 2) Jews in Beroea “were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things [said by Paul] were so. The Beroeans were commended rather than rebuked for doing this."—Acts 17:10, 11.

So, why does the organization "rebuke" (remove) us for doing this same thing today......examining/questioning what they say and they're not apostles?


"To see whether these things were so"
This scripture actually admonished the 1st century Jews to examine/question the words of the Apostle Paul as to whether they were true.
So let's see if we understand this correctly? It's okay to question an apostle (the Apostle Paul) but we can't question the governing body.

Everyone should definitely read this WT article, which was written only 30 years ago.
Today, the emphasis has shifted from "examining the scriptures" to "obeying the direction of the governing body".

From the NWT Bible
(Acts 17:10, 11) . . .Immediately by night the brothers sent both Paul and Silas to Be·roeʹa. On arriving, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so." (NWT)

From the NIV Bible
(Acts 17:10, 11) . . . Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (NIV)

I sent this comment to an elder. This was his response
Do you know of any accounts where Beroeans challenging the apostles?
Apostates often want to believe they’re simply like the Beroeans. But there is a big difference.

 

[Proverbs 14 v 15]

I sent this comment to an elder. This was his response
Do you know of any accounts where Beroeans challenging the apostles?
Apostates often want to believe they’re simply like the Beroeans. But there is a big difference.

But it doesn't say that the Beroeans "challenged" the apostles, it says that they carefully checked everything to make sure what Paul was saying was true
The problem with the GB is that when you check what they're teaching to see if it's true, and you find something they're saying that's not correct, we just have to ignore that fact and wait until they change their mind on their teachings and eventually agree with you. Or, conversely, if you agree with something they teach and then they change that particular teaching, we are supposed to just pretend we believe the new teaching and just go along with it. Reminds me of a scripture about being tossed around on the sea by the wind, blowing here, there, and everywhere, can't remember where it is now..

 

[a believer]

I sent this comment to an elder. This was his response
Do you know of any accounts where Beroeans challenging the apostles?
Apostates often want to believe they’re simply like the Beroeans. But there is a big difference.

Ah yes, the ol' argument from silence approach. /insert eyeroll here.

I'd probably have brought up these scriptural passages and the absence of any counsel on what to do about such ones...

These men are hidden reefs in your love feasts, shamelessly feasting with you but shepherding only themselves... their mouths spew arrogance; they flatter others for their own advantage. —Jude 1:12, 16b Berean Standard Bible {No call to action toward such ones!}

I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them. —Acts 20:29-30 Berean Standard Bible {No call to action toward such ones!}

“Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel. Prophesy and tell them that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘Woe to the shepherds of Israel, who only feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed their flock?' —Ezekiel 34:2 Berean Standard Bible {No call to action toward those filling the role of shepherds!}

Israel’s watchmen are blind, they are all oblivious; they are all mute dogs, they cannot bark; they are dreamers lying around, loving to slumber. Like ravenous dogs, they are never satisfied. They are shepherds with no discernment; they all turn to their own way, each one seeking his own gain... —Isaiah 56:10-11 Berean Standard Bible {No call to action toward those filling the role of shepherds!}

“Woe to the shepherds who destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture!” declares the LORD. / Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says about the shepherds who tend My people: “You have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not attended to them. Behold, I will attend to you for the evil of your deeds, declares the LORD. —Jeremiah 23:1-2 Berean Standard Bible {No call to action toward those shepherds; Jehovah will deal with them}

And I'm sure I could provide still more scriptural references.

But while there is no call to action toward such ones, the Bible does provide a course of action for us who become aware of such shepherds:

What agreement can exist between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be My people.” “Therefore come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you.” And: “I will be a Father to you, and you will be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.” —2 Corinthians 6:16-18 Berean Standard Bible

Depart, depart, go out from there! Touch no unclean thing; come out from it, purify yourselves, you who carry the vessels of the LORD. —Isaiah 52:11 Berean Standard Bible

Have no fellowship with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. —Ephesians 5:11 Berean Standard Bible

Separate yourselves from among this congregation, that I may consume them in a moment… —Numbers 16:21 Berean Standard Bible {This isn't speaking of some other religious group or denomination!}

Anyhow... do not get me started. /smh

—Timothy,
a believer.

 

[Nomex]

Do you know of any accounts where Beroeans challenging the apostles?

Ask him why they didn't "challenge" the Apostles? The answer, because they "PROVED" what they were saying was true. What would have happened if they had NOT been able to prove from the scriptures that what they were teaching was true? What the GB want is NOT to be challenged, so you have to ask WHY? Why don't they want to be challenged? And if they are teaching the truth why are they so worried about "apostate driven lies?" Is it because they believe the brothers faith is so fragile that any lie will under mine their faith? So you then you also have to ask, how is it that the friends faith have become so fragile that "apostate driven lies" can so easily over turn their faith!!!! Also ask why Jehovah allowed the very first apostate, Satan the Devil to challenge Eve with his "apostate driven lie"? Our only shield for lies is the truth NOT avoiding the lie!

2 Thess. chapter 2 once again... 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11  That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12  in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.

So if God "lets a deceptive influence mislead them" why are they trying to subvert Jehovah's purpose which proves IF they LOVE THE TRUTH!!!! That right there proves who and what they are. Only Satan does not want his lie exposed!! The very best exposure of the and only laundry for "the lie" is to be contrasted by the truth! The "truth" reveals the lie, and only the LIAR wants to conceal that it is a lie! We cannot know if it is a lie, without hearing the truth. The truth exposes IF it is a LIE!

Notice that scripture does NOT say "they did not accept the truth"...it says "the LOVE of the truth"!!! If you love something you search it out, and in the case of the truth, if you have a "love of the truth" you cannot but help to challenge what you believe to be true in order to prove to yourself that what you have come to believe IS true, because you are motivated by the LOVE of the truth! Not "our truth" "the universal truth!" The LOVE for the universal truth and the ONLY author for that truth is Gods word NOT the Watchtower magazine no matter how much they wish it to be true!

Moses did not show up to the Israelites with a printing press and a Watchtower magazine to "prove" Jehovah had sent him, just like Jesus, Jehovah sent Moses with the miraculous demonstration of God's power! The power to perform unquestionable miracles. Jehovah's power is NOT in a printing press! Of course even that power did not convince the Pharisees, just like it will not convince certain one's in God's Organization today! Korah did not challenge Moses word, he challenged the source of the demonstration of Moses power, Jehovah God. Where is Watchtower's demonstration of God's miraculous power operating in them? They can however provide what the scripture above says they can, "powerful work and lying signs and wonders" so who is lying?

Apostates often want to believe they’re simply like the Beroeans. But there is a big difference.

He's right about that alright, when you realize the actual "apostates" are the GB! The difference is, the Beroeans actually looked at the evidence they did NOT BURY IT!!!!

Notice in their "drama" about this subject, with the two brothers, one who started reading "apostate" material, the when he pushed back the "brother" said to him, it was "all lies and garbage" notice what the brother in questions DID NOT say in their drama he said, "how do you know it's garbage if you don't read it?" He DID NOT say, "how do you know it's lies, if you haven't read it"????!!!!

So much said in what they DON"T SAY!!!! So many lies of omission!

 

[Nomex]

Do you know of any accounts where Beroeans challenging the apostles?

BTW, "question the words of the Apostle Paul" that is by definition a challenge! They did indeed challenge the "truth" of what Paul said...they are so deceptive by nature!!!

 

[Nomex]

I just thought of this too @Melinda Riling .

Tell that elder, or send him this...when Paul was talking about the "apostasy" in 2 Thess chapter 2 he called those "apostates", "the man of lawlessness" and more to the point "the son of destruction." Who else was called the "son of destruction" and by Jesus himself? Judas, whom Jesus himself chose as one of his apostles!! So who was Paul calling the "son of destruction?" Hint it was NOT the catholic Church, it was in fact whom Jesus called in Matthew 24:48 an "evil slave who says in his heart my master is delaying (over lapping generation), and begins to eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, (the WHO under the UN during Covid)... and begins to beat his fellow slaves( we don't owe you an apology when we get things wrong that's how Jehovah does things)...the 'evil slave whom Jesus appointed is in fact the "man of lawlessness" who has NOT cultivated a love of the truth, rather if we listen to them, the GB "Jehovah will bless us, but MORE importantly"...( more important than Jehovah's blessing) "we'll have Unity!" and..."the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know," because that evil slave says Jesus already returned in 1914...

back to 2 Thess 2 1 However, brothers, concerning the presence of our Lord Jesus Christa and our being gathered together to him, we ask you 2  not to be quickly shaken from your reason nor to be alarmed either by an inspired statement or by a spoken message or by a letter appearing to be from us, (we are Jehovah's Organization, you better listen to us) to the effect that the day of Jehovah is here. (Most translations say the "Lord's Day", whih is clearly what Paul was referring to in the context)3  Let no one lead you astray* in any way, because it will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.
Those whom WT calls apostates are most certainly taking part in revealing "the son of destruction"...

 

[Nomex]

over lapping generation)

BTW, the Bible clearly indicates in at least two places how long a generation is, when Jesus said "this generation will by no ,means pass away" the Apostles had asked him about the destruction of the temple which happened 40 years later, and earlier in Numbers 32: 13, So Jehovah’s anger blazed against Israel and he made them wander about in the wilderness for 40 years, until all the generation that was doing evil in the eyes of Jehovah came to its end." There you have it plain and in black in white no need for some "artfully contrived story" and a graph to explain a deluded "over lapping generation" that you will not find ANYWHERE in the Bible.and Judges 2:10 referring to that same generation who wandered in the wilderness for 40 years. "All that generation were gathered to their ancestors, and another generation arose after them that did not know Jehovah or what he had done for Israel."

 

[Melinda Riling]

BTW, the Bible clearly indicates in at least two places how long a generation is, when Jesus said "this generation will by no ,means pass away" the Apostles had asked him about the destruction of the temple which happened 40 years later, and earlier in Numbers 32: 13, So Jehovah’s anger blazed against Israel and he made them wander about in the wilderness for 40 years, until all the generation that was doing evil in the eyes of Jehovah came to its end. There you have it plain and in black in white no need for some "artfully contrived story" and a graph to explain a deluded "over lapping generation" that you will not find ANYWHERE in the Bible.and Judges 2:10 referring to that same generation who wandered in the wilderness for 40 years. "All that generation were gathered to their ancestors, and another generation arose after them that did not know Jehovah or what he had done for Israel."

Thank you!!! These two comments are awesome!!!

 

[PJ54]

That opposition was Anthony Morris

He may very well have been in opposition now thinking about it. The things he likely came across might have driven him to heavily.

 

[SusanB]

Gaslighting is the perfect description and the GB as well as many brothers and sisters are pros at it.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

But it doesn't say that the Beroeans "challenged" the apostles, it says that they carefully checked everything to make sure what Paul was saying was true
The problem with the GB is that when you check what they're teaching to see if it's true, and you find something they're saying that's not correct, we just have to ignore that fact and wait until they change their mind on their teachings and eventually agree with you. Or, conversely, if you agree with something they teach and then they change that particular teaching, we are supposed to just pretend we believe the new teaching and just go along with it. Reminds me of a scripture about being tossed around on the sea by the wind, blowing here, there, and everywhere, can't remember where it is now..

Ephesians 4:14 “in order that we should no longer be babes, tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error.”