Motivation , post anything motivating here ⬇️🙏

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BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Thanks. I can see your point. Maybe it refers to the the type of faith then that people such as JWs understand with an honest heart, but which is unknowingly wrongly placed. It is confusing - I’m confused by the scripture I must admit, because we are admonished to “make sure of all things”, but then how can one if there is no one to teach? Perhaps then this is an issue of mercy upon those who are “lost sheep” but honestly searching. 😵‍💫😵‍💫👍
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Barn, read the whole 4th chapter of Romans.
We can't "earn" our salvation. It is a free gift, that we cannot boast in ourselves but only in God.
If we have faith in Jehovah and the sacrifice of Jesus, then we naturally do things that will bring them praise.
What are the "works" that James refers to? Kindness, justice, generosity, love of neighbor, etc.
Taking in the knowledge of them and their attributes and learning to imitate them is surely "work" wouldn't you say?
 
Patricia said:
Barn, read the whole 4th chapter of Romans.
We can't "earn" our salvation. It is a free gift, that we cannot boast in ourselves but only in God.
If we have faith in Jehovah and the sacrifice of Jesus, then we naturally do things that will bring them praise.
What are the "works" that James refers to? Kindness, justice, generosity, love of neighbor, etc.
Taking in the knowledge of them and their attributes and learning to imitate them is surely "work" wouldn't you say?
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That sounds right. Thanks Patricia. Yes it is ‘work’ to imitate the Spirit. I have never felt my efforts count for very much and so don’t really look to that as an answer. I learnt that from my “do more” days in watchtower. 🤣
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
That sounds right. Thanks Patricia. Yes it is ‘work’ to imitate the Spirit. I have never felt my efforts count for very much and so don’t really look to that as an answer. I learnt that from my “do more” days in watchtower. 🤣
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Never say that you feel like your efforts don't count for very much Barney, I've learned so much from you about what it REALLY means to be one of Jehovah's witnesses, scripturally, and not Watchowery, you help to keep my mind on the right track so to speak 😊🙏
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
That sounds right. Thanks Patricia. Yes it is ‘work’ to imitate the Spirit. I have never felt my efforts count for very much and so don’t really look to that as an answer. I learnt that from my “do more” days in watchtower. 🤣
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It is really hard to get some of the org's indoctrination out of our heads for sure.
As Proverbs said above, you do many good works right here on the forum, encouraging us and helping us to look at things from a different perspective. You get us thinking deeper. And I bet you do plenty in other areas as well.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
To whom does Romans 4.5 apply and how can this be righteous? Thanks.
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i hope this helps our understanding if not we can consult with brother Robert.

Study Bible
However, to the one who does not work
This phrase emphasizes the concept of grace over works. In the context of Paul's letter to the Romans, he is addressing the Jewish understanding of the law and works as a means to righteousness. The idea that righteousness can be obtained without works was revolutionary, challenging the prevailing Jewish belief that adherence to the law was necessary for justification. This aligns with Ephesians 2:8-9, which states that salvation is by grace through faith, not by works.
but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly
The focus here is on faith in God, who justifies the ungodly. This is a radical statement, as it suggests that God declares the unrighteous as righteous through faith. This concept is rooted in the Old Testament, where Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6). The term "ungodly" underscores the idea that God's grace is extended to those who are not inherently righteous, highlighting the transformative power of faith in Christ.

his faith is credited as righteousness
This phrase encapsulates the doctrine of imputed righteousness, where faith is counted as righteousness. This is a key tenet of Christian theology, emphasizing that righteousness is not earned but granted by God through faith. This concept is further supported by 2 Corinthians 5:21, which speaks of Christ becoming sin for us so that we might become the righteousness of God. The use of the term "credited" suggests a legal or accounting metaphor, indicating that righteousness is accounted to the believer's "ledger" through faith, not through personal merit.

Persons / Places / Events
1. Paul the Apostle
The author of the Book of Romans, Paul was a key figure in the early Christian church, known for his missionary journeys and theological writings.

2. Abraham
Although not directly mentioned in this verse, Abraham is a central figure in Romans 4. He is used as an example of faith being credited as righteousness.

3. The Roman Church
The recipients of the letter, the early Christian community in Rome, composed of both Jewish and Gentile believers.

4. God
The one who justifies the ungodly, central to the message of grace and faith in this passage.

5. The Ungodly
Refers to those who are not righteous by their own deeds but are justified by faith.
Teaching Points
Justification by Faith Alone
The core message of Romans 4:5 is that righteousness is credited to those who believe, not to those who work for it. This underscores the doctrine of justification by faith alone, a cornerstone of conservative Christian theology.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Thanks. I can see your point. Maybe it refers to the the type of faith then that people such as JWs understand with an honest heart, but which is unknowingly wrongly placed. It is confusing - I’m confused by the scripture I must admit, because we are admonished to “make sure of all things”, but then how can one if there is no one to teach? Perhaps then this is an issue of mercy upon those who are “lost sheep” but honestly searching. 😵‍💫😵‍💫👍
Click to expand...

Genesis 15:6​

And he put faith in Jehovah, and He counted it to him as righteousness.

1 Samuel 26:20​

And now do not let my blood fall to the ground away from the presence of Jehovah, for the king of Israel has gone out to look for a single flea, as if he were chasing a partridge on the mountains.”
 
lflynn22 said:
i hope this helps our understanding if not we can consult with brother Robert.

Study Bible
However, to the one who does not work
This phrase emphasizes the concept of grace over works. In the context of Paul's letter to the Romans, he is addressing the Jewish understanding of the law and works as a means to righteousness. The idea that righteousness can be obtained without works was revolutionary, challenging the prevailing Jewish belief that adherence to the law was necessary for justification. This aligns with Ephesians 2:8-9, which states that salvation is by grace through faith, not by works.
but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly
The focus here is on faith in God, who justifies the ungodly. This is a radical statement, as it suggests that God declares the unrighteous as righteous through faith. This concept is rooted in the Old Testament, where Abraham's faith was credited to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6). The term "ungodly" underscores the idea that God's grace is extended to those who are not inherently righteous, highlighting the transformative power of faith in Christ.

his faith is credited as righteousness
This phrase encapsulates the doctrine of imputed righteousness, where faith is counted as righteousness. This is a key tenet of Christian theology, emphasizing that righteousness is not earned but granted by God through faith. This concept is further supported by 2 Corinthians 5:21, which speaks of Christ becoming sin for us so that we might become the righteousness of God. The use of the term "credited" suggests a legal or accounting metaphor, indicating that righteousness is accounted to the believer's "ledger" through faith, not through personal merit.

Persons / Places / Events
1. Paul the Apostle
The author of the Book of Romans, Paul was a key figure in the early Christian church, known for his missionary journeys and theological writings.

2. Abraham
Although not directly mentioned in this verse, Abraham is a central figure in Romans 4. He is used as an example of faith being credited as righteousness.

3. The Roman Church
The recipients of the letter, the early Christian community in Rome, composed of both Jewish and Gentile believers.

4. God
The one who justifies the ungodly, central to the message of grace and faith in this passage.

5. The Ungodly
Refers to those who are not righteous by their own deeds but are justified by faith.
Teaching Points
Justification by Faith Alone
The core message of Romans 4:5 is that righteousness is credited to those who believe, not to those who work for it. This underscores the doctrine of justification by faith alone, a cornerstone of conservative Christian theology.
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Define ‘grace’ please in your understanding. Thanks.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Define ‘grace’ please in your understanding. Thanks.
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i can not define it only Jehovah and Jesus can.

Galatians 2:16​

recognize that a man is declared righteous, not by works of law, but only through faith in Jesus Christ. So we have put our faith in Christ Jesus, so that we may be declared righteous by faith in Christ and not by works of law, for no one will be declared righteous by works of law.

Isaiah 45:13​

“I have raised up a man in righteousness, And I will make all his ways straight. He is the one who will build my city And set my exiles free without a price or a bribe,” says Jehovah of armies.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Define ‘grace’ please in your understanding. Thanks.
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The Hebrew word for “grace” is ḥēn, pronounced like “hen.” This word is commonly translated as “favor,” which means acceptance and goodwill regardless of whether we've earned it. In other words, grace is undeserved favor. Grace can't be earned; it is something freely given to us by God.
 
lflynn22 said:
i can not define it only Jehovah and Jesus can.

Galatians 2:16​

recognize that a man is declared righteous, not by works of law, but only through faith in Jesus Christ. So we have put our faith in Christ Jesus, so that we may be declared righteous by faith in Christ and not by works of law, for no one will be declared righteous by works of law.

Isaiah 45:13​

“I have raised up a man in righteousness, And I will make all his ways straight. He is the one who will build my city And set my exiles free without a price or a bribe,” says Jehovah of armies.
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Thanks - those scriptures give an indication of what grace may be - one of the more guarded of the attributes of Jehovah to define it seems! I shall ponder more upon it. 👍
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
The Hebrew word for “grace” is ḥēn, pronounced like “hen.” This word is commonly translated as “favor,” which means acceptance and goodwill regardless of whether we've earned it. In other words, grace is undeserved favor. Grace can't be earned; it is something freely given to us by God.
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That’s a really good way of putting it Proverbs, thanks for that. I see the point!
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
That’s a really good way of putting it Proverbs, thanks for that. I see the point!
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I just copied and pasted it from some dictionary or another, but, it's what I learned from my Bible study over the years 😍 and fits perfectly with that saying "there, but for the grace of God go I" 😬 something I've said many times over the years, before studying the Bible and after. It's a lovely thought to cling on to, it helps me endure anything else that I most probably brought on myself, you know, reap what you sow and all that, sometimes Jehovah is gracious to me and sometimes he's not, I don't complain when he's not gracious to me, because I just don't live my life expecting him to help me, I just live in hope 😍 but I'm always very grateful when he does. I think that's about as much as we can expect from him at the moment..
 
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BARNABY THE DOG. said:
What was she responsible for?
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But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, “Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!” —Luke 10:40 New International Version
 
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