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Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
I've always assumed that our limit is when/if we are put to death for choosing Jehovah 🤔
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To a point. At the same time, our limit can also be demonstrated by that point when we cross over into sin in the heat of our suffering.

For example:

Do not say, “I will do to him as he has done to me; I will repay the man according to his work.” —Proverbs 24:29 Berean Standard Bible

When they heaped abuse on Him, He did not retaliate; when He suffered, He made no threats, but entrusted Himself to Him who judges justly. —1 Peter 2:23 Berean Standard Bible

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. —Matthew 5:11 Berean Standard Bible

We work hard with our own hands. When we are vilified, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer gently. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world. —1 Corinthians 4:12-13 Berean Standard Bible

Should we accept only good things from the hand of God and never anything bad?” So in all this, Job said nothing wrong. —Job 2:10b New Living Translation

I could be wrong in my understanding, of course.

—Timothy,
a believer.
 
a believer said:
To a point. At the same time, our limit can also be demonstrated by that point when we cross over into sin in the heat of our suffering.

For example:

Do not say, “I will do to him as he has done to me; I will repay the man according to his work.” —Proverbs 24:29 Berean Standard Bible

When they heaped abuse on Him, He did not retaliate; when He suffered, He made no threats, but entrusted Himself to Him who judges justly. —1 Peter 2:23 Berean Standard Bible

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me. —Matthew 5:11 Berean Standard Bible

We work hard with our own hands. When we are vilified, we bless; when we are persecuted, we endure it; when we are slandered, we answer gently. Up to this moment we have become the scum of the earth, the refuse of the world. —1 Corinthians 4:12-13 Berean Standard Bible

Should we accept only good things from the hand of God and never anything bad?” So in all this, Job said nothing wrong. —Job 2:10b New Living Translation

I could be wrong in my understanding, of course.

—Timothy,
a believer.
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Hmm.. maybe 🤔 I've just always had the feeling that at some point or another, we are going to have to suffer to the extent Job did, or Daniel etc 🤔 maybe we all won't 🤔 not sure really, I just prefer to look at and expect the "worst case scenario" only because that's the story of my life 😅
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
Hmm.. maybe 🤔 I've just always had the feeling that at some point or another, we are going to have to suffer to the extent Job did, or Daniel etc 🤔 maybe we all won't 🤔 not sure really, I just prefer to look at and expect the "worst case scenario" only because that's the story of my life 😅
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One verse that might be worth considering, whether we all are going to have to suffer to that extent is:

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison to test you, and you will suffer tribulation for ten days. Be faithful even unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. —Revelation 2:10 Berean Standard Bible

But even when we do not face tribulation to this extent, we can often find ourselves struggling against our flesh or our fleshly way of thinking, which we are to resist.

For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. —Galatians 5:17 Berean Standard Bible

Beloved, I urge you, as foreigners and exiles, to abstain from the desires of the flesh, which war against your soul. —1 Peter 2:11 Berean Standard Bible

We suffer in this sinful inclination we've inherited, that we certainly didn't ask for. Personality traits, for example. In my case, there are times when I catch myself speaking and sounding just like the woman who raised me while heaping spiteful words of abuse and accusation... and as a result, my precious wife suffers me as I struggle against this inculcated personality I was given so liberally by my "mother."

But it requires both a sense of self awareness, as well as coming to know what our Father in the heavens has to offer by way of instruction in dealing with that self.

I am the LORD your God who teaches you not to do wrong, who leads you by the way that you should go. —Isaiah 48:17 Lamsa Bible

Just my plugged nickel's worth.

—Timothy,
a believer.
 
Spoilmerotten said:
Man still doesn’t know his limits. Only Jehovah knows our limits. Jehovah allowed Job to suffer, in order that he could make a reply to Satan who was taunting him. Proverbs 27:11
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The scripture is true. Life is limitless. If life can create the universe and the laws that maintain it, then there is no limit to its potential. We are limited in terms of what flesh can achieve, but that does not include our reasoning. No one scientist has found a limit to that, yet like goldfish, we are physically limited to our bowl that forms our surroundings.

If we choose to think outside that box, we must first be given the understanding to perceive greater or different values. They may already be present, but our eyes must be opened to them first. Much the same thing as the discovery of the atom was to the last century, or DNA.

It is difficult to see at this time why mankind should have limitations. Why would Jehovah create something that would be limited in capability. We were made perfect. If we wish to lift a thousand tons in weight, we invent the means to do so. If we wish to engage in interstellar travel, then we develop the means to do so. We know there are ways of crossing dimensions, as the angels appear quite adept at it. Jehovah has already said that neither man nor the heavens have an idea what is in store for them that Jehovah will bring to the fore in due course.
 
a believer said:
I guess I was thinking about Job, especially, in that Jehovah does allow us to be tested (ie suffer), but not without a way out.

Be wise, my son, and gladden my heart, that I may return a word to the one reproaching me. —Proverbs 27:11 Berean Standard Version

The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure. —1 Corinthians 10:13 New Living Translation

Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love Him. —James 1:12 Berean Standard Version

Not only that, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance... —Romans 5:3 Berean Standard Bible

But rejoice that you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed at the revelation of His glory. —1 Peter 4:13 Berean Standard Bible

Among other passages.

—Timothy,
a believer.
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Not to be pedantic: pain is one way, but so is adultery, pornography, drunkenness and lavish spending, eating and drinking equally so a test. There is always a way out: admittedly, physical pain and loss is harder to bear - but is it always so? The object of the test was to deprive job of all that he had. Satan chose the means. With Christ, he offered all the kingdoms of the world, and a loaf of bread. In these days, it’s anything goes. In respect of your point though, all of it ends in pain and suffering if not of the flesh, then of the mind. So you’re right.

I suppose what bugs me is the religious bent that everything has no value unless we suffer for it. Everything has to be endured, repented of and forgiveness begged. We too often reflect that, but it does not have to be that way as a means of seeking redemption. There is so much beauty to be seen, so much to be grateful for in at last seeing the Word for what it is - too see joy in Jehovah’s peace at last and for it to be near at hand - that is a peace that defies any description…..
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
I suppose what bugs me is the religious bent that everything has no value unless we suffer for it. Everything has to be endured, repented of and forgiveness begged. We too often reflect that, but it does not have to be that way as a means of seeking redemption. There is so much beauty to be seen, so much to be grateful for in at last seeing the Word for what it is - too see joy in Jehovah’s peace at last and for it to be near at hand - that is a peace that defies any description…..
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Ahhhh! Thank you for helping me to better appreciate what you were trying to convey, brother! And I agree! 🫂

—Timothy,
a brother.
 
Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
Ah, she sounds like a lovely person Timothy 😍 is she a JW?
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She was always viewed by her congregation as one of the "spiritually weak" ones, long before I beheld her when I resumed meeting attendance back around 1997 and went through the organizational requirements (baptism, was one) to qualify for asking for her hand in marriage. In fact, the brothers continuously advised me to seek a more appropriate sister from the congregation for this very reason. She was one of those "go along to get along" folks even though she could never understand certain organizational expectations or teachings.

When she saw how I was dealt with for asking many of the same questions I was later asking the brothers, and how it led to my being disfellowshipped as an apostate, her quiet personality moved her to simply withdraw (even though her sister "friends" in the congregation were strongly pushing for her to leave the marriage lest she lose out on the hope of living in the paradise earth!!) and so she was never disfellowshipped. But she did lose many friendships, including one very near and dear to her, in the process.

But her love for Jehovah, and our common faith and beliefs (well, she doesn't agree with everything I've come to understand, lol) have continued down to this day. The one area where we distinctively differ is that I am very in tune with tech and online stuff, whereas she is a Luddite, through and through (which is why she doesn't come on here, or anywhere online).

Jehovah has certainly continued to bless us (often in spite of our selves), and we have 27 or so years of marriage as a result.

"Spiritually weak" indeed! Hmph!!

—Timothy,
a humbled husband
 
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Proverbs 14 v 15 said:
Oh how wonderful for her! I'm very much looking forward to being in that world again 😄
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I see technology as a tool, but it does come down to the user. A hammer is a tool in one man's hand, and a weapon in another man's hand. Even the Bible has oft been weaponized by men.

Not to mention Man's natural tendency to worship his own manufactured things, even to the point of subjecting himself to them as gods. /shaking my head.

But she'd likely agree with you, all the same, lol! 💚

—Timothy,
a brother.
 
a believer said:
She was always viewed by her congregation as one of the "spiritually weak" ones, long before I beheld her when I resumed meeting attendance back around 1997 and went through the organizational requirements (baptism, was one) to qualify for asking for her hand in marriage. In fact, the brothers continuously advised me to seek a more appropriate sister from the congregation for this very reason. She was one of those "go along to get along" folks even though she could never understand certain organizational expectations or teachings.

When she saw how I was dealt with for asking many of the same questions I was later asking the brothers, and how it led to my being disfellowshipped as an apostate, her quiet personality moved her to simply withdraw (even though her sister "friends" in the congregation were strongly pushing for her to leave the marriage lest she lose out on the hope of living in the paradise earth!!) and so she was never disfellowshipped. But she did lose many friendships, including one very near and dear to her, in the process.

But her love for Jehovah, and our common faith and beliefs (well, she doesn't agree with everything I've come to understand, lol) have continued down to this day. The one area where we distinctively differ is that I am very in tune with tech and online stuff, whereas she is a Luddite, through and through (which is why she doesn't come on here, or anywhere online).

Jehovah has certainly continued to bless us (often in spite of our selves), and we have 27 or so years of marriage as a result.

"Spiritually weak" indeed! Hmph!!

—Timothy,
a humbled husband
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Good heavens! The marriage guidance counselling of brothers!!! They are not much different from fair ground fortune tellers. “You will meet a mature sister who may be spiritually weak…..”. I always thought that those who were “spiritually reserved” (I never used the word “weak” about anyone) simply were more reserved in their counsel for a reason. In our congregation in the 70s, a chap was addicted to tobacco - it was his only pleasure. He lived with his sick wife in a back street wreck of a house. His life was poverty and care and I had every sympathy for him. No one helped him, clothed him or fed him. He was “weak”. There are thousands of brothers and sisters with overwhelming difficulties or reasons to be not fully involved in a congregation. Some ‘spiritual’ overseers or members are not as holy as they like to think. And attitude and abuse from others is one of them. To label someone as weak without knowing their life challenges of their background is simply heinous. I apologise to your dear wife in their behalf. Who are they to doubt her love for Jehovah?! I’ve never heard of anything so appalling.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
The marriage guidance counselling of brothers!!! They are not much different from fair ground fortune tellers. “You will meet a mature sister who may be spiritually weak…..”.
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The sister that the brothers recommended to me, and who herself was rather smitten with me for some insane reason, had a very domineering, pro-organizational personality. I had been married twice before, and had learned enough from my previous non-JW wives to know that things would not have gone well, had I listened to the brothers. This sister would've been the one wearing the pants in the family, and would most certainly have abandoned the marriage when I had my encounter with the organization's power and authority over the lives of the brothers and sisters.

Although, I do hope she was finally able to find a suitable husband in due time.

And while I don't deserve her, Deb's the gal for me. I knew that when I first set eyes upon her.

—Timothy
 
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