Beautiful and well done. But I do feel a bit differently myself because I am still angry about what they have done to people are just misled (not to mention children) and I guess some need to fade but some need to speak up too. Viva la difference!
I've been there Susan, I tell you that. But I keep in mind too that Jehovah allows it to happen and He definitely will act at the right time. And His Word says "man's anger doesn't result in God's righteousness" and Jehovah himself says "Vengeance is mine."
he's into blues and rock style. 
I recognise that style of guitar playing!Here's a beautiful song made by my beloved hubby
It depends really upon how one views the phrase: “Jehovah allows it to happen”. First there would be a reason that Jehovah allows it to happen and that requires understanding of the outcome. Jehovah can do no evil and we know that guilt by association can be a factor. So why does this not apply then in “allowing” things to happen? There is a critical understanding to be had in “allowing” something to occur and “condoning” through tacit agreement with an outcome through not objecting.
I have no doubt.
Conscience is important. Scriptural patterns help us mold our conscience. Some examples speak louder than others. ChefBee has stated that she believes that it was Jehovah who placed his name on the ORG. I really cannot say for sure but I do realize he allowed his name to be used by them. I think that if Jehovah placed his divine name on any particular group, then he would reveal that clearly as he has clearly claimed to institute the Mosaic Law or the line of Kings. The last specific claim that I find in the scriptures of who has Jehovah’s backing is the anointed ones and we don’t know who they are. We can guess at it, but even then, the final outcome can always change. I will wait for confirmation via the revealing of the Chosen Ones. The test of faith is still future. Until then, I will speak as loudly as I can when I see frauds or liars.
Show me the scripture on not leaving early. There is a glaring error in your reasoning. I think you should follow your conscience but you’ve publicly made statements that I don’t believe are backed up scripturally. The most important issue being that according to my conscience it would be presumptuous to assume that Jehovah endorsed the ORG or that he was the one to put his name on the ORG when he has never said that. The nation of Israel did have explicit approval and a covenant. Who has the “covenant” today? Some clearly do but can you name them? Has Jesus already come? Has Jesus sealed his Chosen Ones? I hope to see that day but it has not happened yet.
No, that is not my point that corruption demands immediate exit. Where does one exit from watchtower and into non-corruption? Of course there is corruption - right from the beginning with Judas right in the midst. The issue is one of complicity, as I pointed out. This is supported by scriptures in the issues of relationships with those practice wrongdoing of which there are multiple examples. Corruption has been with us since Adam laid hand on the fruit.Barnaby the dog, I see your concern boils down to this: once you see corruption, integrity demands immediate exit.
The Bible doesn’t actually support that idea. In fact, it warns against acting ahead of God’s timing just as much as acting too late.
A clear example is Jesus and the temple.
Jesus knew the religious system was corrupt. He publicly condemned the leaders. Yet he continued to teach and worship at the temple until the moment judgment was set in motion.
Matt 23:2-3 — The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses. Therefore all the things they tell you, do and observe; but do not do according to their deeds.
If leaving early was the mark of integrity, Jesus would have done so. He didn’t.
Another example is first-century Christians in Jerusalem.
They knew judgment was coming, but they were told not to flee immediately. They were told to wait for a specific sign. Leaving early would not have been obedience — it would have been presumption.
Luke 21:20-21 — When you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that her desolation has drawn near. Then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains.
Acting before that sign would have meant abandoning God’s timing and substituting personal conscience for divine instruction.
That’s the key issue: integrity is not proved by speed.
Jumping the gun can be just as wrong as dragging your feet. Scripture consistently shows that God allows corruption for a time in order to expose it fully, complete a witness, and separate people at the right moment — not when individuals decide the time feels right.
Eccl 3:1 — For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven.
Revelation follows the same pattern. “Get out of her” is not a standing order for anyone who becomes aware of problems; it’s a command tied to imminent judgment.
Rev 18:4 — Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share in her sins and receive part of her plagues.
Staying while awake is not hypocrisy. Staying while endorsing is. Leaving early doesn’t guarantee integrity — it can just mean acting ahead of God instead of with Him.
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The Bible does not equate awareness with immediate exit. Jesus remained in a corrupt religious system until judgment was due, and Christians in Jerusalem were told to wait for a specific sign before fleeing (Matt 23:2-3; Luke 21:20-21). Acting ahead of God’s timing is not integrity; it’s presumption. Scripture shows that obedience is about discernment and timing, not proving righteousness by leaving first.
Here's another music from me.
Have a good day everyone!
I have always wanted to play the anvil. It’s such a complex instrument to master. I can appreciate the man in bib and braces turning up on a mower with his accordion. His ancestors probably came over on the Mayflower. There is a link there somewhere.
I can only agree with you. To me it is much the same. As I have made note of before I can see Jehovah’s hand in watchtower but not ownership. That may be due to my lack of insight into scripture but as a man, I cannot reconcile what I know of Jehovah, creation, prophesy and the character of man and of the sciences, to any part of the watchtower. But I can reconcile what I do see of watchtower as a tool of Jehovah in the composite expression of His Godship, come the day. I honestly think I must be arrogant in the matter at times because I cannot fit the two together in ownership, as a necessary part of the prophesy of destruction. The abuse of the Name alone is enough, considering that the kingdom is going to be made evident come the day. I think it far more likely that the watchtower itself is responsible for the delusion in part or fully, because they have indoctrinated the entire society to the point that it must be so that “Jehovah is with them” and that the brethren thus try to ingest that - fitting a square peg into a round hole.
I am clearly puzzled at this quote from ChefBee because it turns the warning for Christians to flee on its head. It was NOT the intent for this scripture to warn against leaving too early and they were NOT told to wait for a sign. In fact, the warning is to those in Judea and Jerusalem to flee immediately on catching sight. This is Jesus’ response to their question of what to look for and not a warning about leaving too early. Just the word “fleeing” involves a rushed and hurried attitude. There is no warning about leaving early, which is why the warning is only to those in the danger zone and definitely speed of departure is impressed on the reader. The others outside of the danger zone did not need to flee and the only direction they received was to NOT enter Jerusalem. But each one can read the scriptures and use their own conscience. I think the scriptures speak on their own.
I had not thought of your scriptural approach before, thank you for bringing it to my attention. This is precisely what I mean by “understanding”, in putting into context, the word of Jehovah so that it gains both meaning and application. By the time I left watchtower I was so fed to the teeth with repetition of rhetoric about action and nothing of meaning and depth that I could have written all I knew about watchtower teaching on the back of a postage stamp.
PIMO. Physically in Mentally Out. Thus your comment above is somewhat contradictory because you have already left by your own admission, but maintain a meaningless physical presence. Silent, inert and non-contributory to the actual truth of the matter in your conscience and what you feel to be the truth. Neither one thing or the other. Luke warm as the Bible says.
I see your mind Barnaby. Now I know...
Well, respectfully ChefBee, it sounds to me like you are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. One the one hand you say that it is a conscience matter and then on the other hand you say that somehow I am pulling weeds. Trust me there is no weed pulling on my part. I couldn’t remove anything and that is ridiculous and makes clear that you don’t even follow your own advice, aka hypocrisy. As I have said before, you follow your conscience and my conscience tells me that it would be cowardly to stay silent and appear to be something I am not and I am confident in saying that. The way you twist scriptures to make your argument correct is a real signal to me that I just don’t want to read your comments. And, with all of the push back I have gotten from you and those like you, I think I’m right over the target. Perhaps I have seen the disgusting thing and by your own admission, you have not. You don’t get to tell me what I see and what I don’t see. And, I will add that no one gets to label their own conduct or lack of action as “wisdom”. In the words of GB member Jackson, that would be presumptuous.
Go where ever you feel comfortable. No one is trying to stop you from doing anything you want to do. Again, very puzzling to me that you would come on the forum and declare that you are PIMO and then try to teach all the other forum members who have distanced themselves that they are wrong and they need to go back to the ORG. Wow, if someone was sent by the ORG to try to lure people back into the wayward congregations, perhaps that is exactly what they would do. I think they’re pretty good too at music videos. Interesting. But time for the “ignore” button.I see
I see your mind Barnaby. Now I know...
FYI, I haven't left physically... I've seen what's beyond their walls in a sense by crossing beyond their restrictions of simply depending on them for "truths" and not studying and making in-depth research outside their "tools".
I supposed you've understood what PIMO means... But obviously I have to speak to you in more precise, more simple terms for you to comprehend what I'm saying.
Anyways...talk next time, "lukewarm me" is going to the mid-week meeting!