The threat of DF'ing reminds me of the words in the song Hotel California "You can check in but you can never check out". Once your baptized...your held hostage and your family is used as blackmail.
No! But most who do get DF’d aren’t pedophiles. I In know way meant that pedophiles shouldn’t be DF’d. I’m sorry if my explanation came off that way. Maybe I should retract my statement.Wait, does that mean pedophiles shouldn't be disfellowshipped?
I should be more clear, major sinners, and especially pedophiles, should be shunned socially, which would mean disclosing their major sins to the congregation. They shouldn't be spiritually shunned via DF'ing, because they still have a chance at repentance. Apostates to the Truth, not the GB, may have a chance to repent, but they're very dangerous spiritually, so I would advise all sheep and elders to completely avoid them, which would mean officially DF'ing them from Christianity. So if I was in charge, I'd advise the sheep to avoid pedophiles in all instances, EXCEPT for when they have a great opportunity to reach out with a message of hope and encouragement.Wait, does that mean pedophiles shouldn't be disfellowshipped?
No. You don't need to retract anything. I was just making a point. Disfellowshipping is biblically grounded. However, like everything else it is abused. Some congregations might be too lax and allow things to go on that others would not. Other elder bodies might be too harsh and unforgiving. Apparently, the Corinthians were both. In his first letter to them, Paul chided them for tolerating a man who was living immorally. In his second letter, he exhorted them to be forgiving.
A friend of mine was DF'd after going to the elders to admit he had sex with a single woman in the congregation. He was deeply remorseful which spurred his immediate confession. She on the other hand lied to the elders and denied it. She wasn't DF'd because of the 2 witness rule... i.e. a technicality. So the elders DF'd a clearly repentant one time sinner, thus believing his story, but allowed a confirmed liar and fornicator to go.
Yes, I understand, it’s like you said, it is abused. One thing in particular also is even if a disfellowshipping announcement hasn’t been made nor any wrongdoing of a congregant has been committed, instead, one may have questioned or said something negative against the GB/WT‘s policies, you’re treated as if you are disfellowshipped.
IMO how can these imperfect men, who can’t read hearts and evidently, as you pointed out, his being “deeply remorseful“ actions weren’t rightfully discerned. This is deeply disturbing because of the fruitage it bears many, many times.
That's ridiculous. Absurd. How can the brother be disfellowshipped for a sin that the alleged partner swears didn't happen?
Absolutely agree with this because it is true, but it is only one side. To be balanced we must consider that shunning is biblical in the sense that if somebody is choosing to live a lifestyle contrary to Christian standards they can ferment the whole lump so to speak. The example you cite shows a man called 'the victim' when in reality perhaps he chose to commit adultery, and steal, or whatever it was that was clearly gross sin. We cannot overlook that shunning in its biblical context is tough love. When the nation of Israel committed gross sin over and over, Jehovah disfellowshipped them in a sense, allowing them to commit acts of spiritual prostitution with other nations, and letting them suffer the consequences. Yet when they humbly repented he accepted them back into his favor. When done correctly shunning is truly a loving act.My beloved Religion and the Governing Body.
Note this
Taken from Rev. Ch. 10 pg. 51 par. 13.
“As Jehovah’s Messenger and Judge, the Son of God acts rightly in identifying the modern Jezebel and throwing her into a sickbed, for her spiritual sickness is indeed a chronic one. (Malachi 3:1, 5) Those who have succumbed to this wrongful female influence will also suffer great tribulation—the sorrow of being disfellowshipped, cut off from the Christian congregation AS THOUGH DEAD.”
They not only CUT YOU OFF FOR BEING DISFELLOWSHIPPED, as if you’re DEAD, but if you even SPEAK OUT OR QUESTION THE WATCHTOWER they treat you as if you’re DEAD.
But the reality is that it’s like they’re the ones that are DEAD because they’ve cut you off, chose to die…a sacrifice to their idol, jw dot org.
W81 9/15 pg. 31 par. 26
“Should he die WHILE DISFELLOWSHIPPED arrangements for his funeral MAY BE A PROBLEM. His Christian relatives may like to have had a talk at the Kingdom Hall, if that is the local custom. But that would not be fitting for a person expelled from the congregation. If he had been giving evidence of repentance and wanting God’s forgiveness, such as by ceasing to practice sin and by attending Christian meetings, some brother’s conscience might allow him to give a Bible talk at the funeral home or grave site. Such Biblical comments about the condition of the dead provide a witness to unbelievers or comfort to the relatives.”
“However, if the disfellowshiped person had still been advocating false teachings or ungodly conduct, even such a talk would not be appropriate.“
“For the one who has died has been acquitted from his sin.”
THEY CALL IT A LOVING PROVISION
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The watchtower are masters at straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel. They are happy to ruin a child’s life by letting these people infest the congregation, deny it happens, and then disfellowship the victim for the outcomes of behaviour following their abuse. It’s not an uncommon reaction in many areas of society, because the causal route of behaviours is denied or ignored by those without insight, or, prefer blindness to the consequences of taking action and applying righteous restitution - as is the case with watchtower. The watchtower rely on their own understanding:- superficial, and led by fear, greed and denial, putting more store upon their own image of self, and their pretence at Jehovah’s Truth, rather than listening to the victim and actioning Jehovah’s justice as it is written. They do not follow the primary attribute of the spirit in love, upon which the discerning elder and the victim would depend for guidance upon in dispensing justice in judgement. The scripture is true in that “love sees all things…”, it listens, perceives, seeks justice, denies only self so that it can act independently and without fear, bringing relief and vindication along with a just punishment upon the transgressor. It reminds me of that scripture that lists what should be repaid in value for animals stolen, such as, if I recall correctly, seven bulls for the theft of one right through to death in cases of adultery between consenting adults! How much more so then for the abuse of an innocent child? It’s not just about innocence too, it’s about the perception of the very soul of the child. Lifelong. Watchtower has much shame to answer for. They have no idea for the repair needed for a child to survive for the rest of their lives with such murderous treatment of their soul. It never goes away. And that is their (watchtowers) crime. It cannot be repaid in money. There cannot be restitution or recompense. There is only one repair, and it’s found in Revelation. “For the former things will not be brought to mind.“ Only Jehovah can undo what man has done to his fellow beings. There is no argument to the matter. It is unbelievable that the matter should be argued over.Wait, does that mean pedophiles shouldn't be disfellowshipped?
That is the magic of watchtower. They cannot reason normally. It’s called possession, I suppose.
Same thing happened to a guy I know, except he wasn't DF'd. I think he was privately reproved. And he claimed the girl tried to hook up with him again later, after she denied everything. Like I have said so many times though when it comes to the Elder body, "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." DF'ing and "reproof" is their only "tool" to "helping people." You also have the problem of over zealous self righteous attitude of almost all R&F who think whatever WT tells them to think, and they have done such a good job that the R&F actually think they have reached many of these decisions on their own. But just like installing a computer program onto a computer, the R&F have had their thinking installed into them by WT!
There was one "dramatization" they released during the Covid fiasco, and it was a Mary or Martha talking to a neighbor, and the neighbor was telling her she was going to listen to the Pharisees about Jesus. I was stunned by their complete lack of self awareness. They are literally condemning themselves and they don't even know it. If Jesus came to the earth in an earthly form again, and he called out the GB they would 100% DF him, and like I have said before, that is only because they have no authority to kill him. They are exactly like the 1st century Pharisees.
This guy is incredibly handsome... like model gorgeous, so I think there was a hint of jealousy. It wasn't my congregation, so he's the only person I know in the situation. He could literally have any woman he wants, but he loves Jehovah so much he won't do it. I'm not excusing his behavior, but he was seduced by a Jezebel in the congregation and let down his guard after field ministry one Saturday. He's had non-JW women ask for Bible studies just to have a chance to be with him.
I sure am glad I didn't have his problem.
A publisher was considered irregular if they missed a month of reporting. If it was six months without any service report then they were considered inactive, which means they were not counted in the annual total of publishers. At least that's what it was 20 years ago. It may have changed.
But in order to be able to go back in service do the brothers have to have a meeting with that one?
A pioneer sister I’ve known for years asked me a few weeks ago if I wanted to go with her and another sister on Thursdays to do return visits in the afternoon. I said yes and have been with them a few times. In fact she even told me to wear whatever I felt comfortable in, so I wore pants. Anyway, on one return visit she insisted I get out so I did. We also did other calls and I had a nice time.
I recently reactivated after 3 years inactive and yes, I had to meet with the Elders who asked me if I had practiced serious sin during my inactivity and when I said "No" they helped me get back out in field service.
All you have to do is tell the sister you are not inactive, so there is no need. RK is correct it is 6 months of not reporting time. You need to learn how to play their game better! LOL. The bottom line is tell them as little as possible. BTW, posting on this forum is exactly the same thing as preaching, because this is a public forum anyone can read, and even if it wasn't any unbaptized person who reads anything on here then you can count time. The time you spend writing anything about the bible is time you can count, and now the "time" doesn't matter.A pioneer sister I’ve known for years asked me a few weeks ago if I wanted to go with her and another sister on Thursdays to do return visits in the afternoon. I said yes and have been with them a few times. In fact she even told me to wear whatever I felt comfortable in, so I wore pants. Anyway, on one return visit she insisted I get out so I did. We also did other calls and I had a nice time.
Mind you, I haven’t been attending meetings nor have I turned time in for three months. So this morning we were having a conversation and evidently I got the feeling she told the brothers about my going with them.
She next proceeds to tell me if you’ve been inactive ( inactive is 6 months not 3 months) she told me that I needed to call my service overseer and he would get another brother with me to go over some questions so as to make sure I am APPROVED to be able to go out. Well, I never heard of such a thing and I’ll be damned ( excuse my French) if I’m going to have a meeting with them for such a thing. I’ve had enough of their bullying all the years I was in and I refuse to ever be in any more meetings for anything with them!
And now they have a special publishers app that you have to be approved to have so that they can give you a code to put in.
I guess that‘s the end of that for me. I really believe that they’re trying to weed out ones from the organization to find out who’s in line with them and who’s not. I could say more but I’ll stop for now.
Rant over
I could maybe understand after 3 years but 3 months?
Ok, thanks for that Nomex. Yeah, I do need to learn how to play their game better. Lol That’s what my son keeps telling me.
Same here in the Netherlands, so I presume it's standard procedure. But here they are also able to read your heart ......