Given there will always be plenty of discussion on Christendoms error of the trinity I'm starting a thread for any discussion on where jews and muslims views are likewise off.
Neo-pharisee and Islamic takes on Jesus.
- Thread starter The God Pill
- Start date
MickHewitt
Well-known member
Amazing lengths they go to using Talmud to counter Christianity. Definitely shows how much they fear the Christ.....
LifeLearning
Well-known member
I don't know much about Jewish doctrine or Talmud, but every professed jew I have ever had opportunity to discuss God with quickly backed out of their religion when I told them that we have a lot in common, as Jehovah is our God. I recently found that many only profess their Jewish faith because it is popular in social circles, or it is 'interesting' to them.
🤪
🤪
The God Pill
Well-known member
That's one of the great things about being part of a unitarian denomination like the witnesses gives us a tremendous edge in preaching to jews and muslims compared to trinitarians. I've never experienced contentiousness in interaction with people of either of those faiths.
Last edited:
The God Pill
Well-known member
On the Islamic end I'm only familiar with Islam to the extent of having read the Quran but it was clearly influenced by a few gnostic texts primarily the Gospel of Thomas (114 suras v 114 sayings) and Infancy Gospel of Thomas (stories about jesus childhood etc)
BagdadBill
Well-known member
Modern day jews will teach that the mother of Jesus was a whore and deserving of death according to Law. What they never answer is why their own scriptures led them understand the relative time of the arrival of Messiah nor will they explain why he hasn't shown up. I think most Jews likely don't crack the books so as to figure it out.
Yet another good reason for regular bible study.
Yet another good reason for regular bible study.
PJ54
Well-known member
Many of them seem to not realize that the Torah & Talmud contradict each other too.
BagdadBill
Well-known member
One of the marvels of the Holy Bible is that every book had to be considered as to whether it belonged in the group or not. I've heard but never looked into, that the Jewish people had tons of writings. How would you wade through it all unless you had help from God?
The God Pill
Well-known member
Not really the bible canon was determined by the council of Nicea attributing a divine hand in determining the canon is akin to endorsing the council as having good judgement on the trinity. Even mere months before the council the catholic church was divided on including or not 7 books of the new testament and there are older new testament canons that are slightly bigger than the mainstream.
Last edited:
MickHewitt
Well-known member
They were determined in the name of harmony that they come to some definite agreement. So they concluded the trinity and millions still adhere to it! A close friend of over 50yr still argues it's case!
BagdadBill
Well-known member
Isn't this where faith gets tested? A group of religious leaders who we've been taught not to trust but we put faith in their decision on which books are admitted into our holy text. It isn't our place to question the how or why. If you read God's word and it speaks to you, then that is your answer is it not? There are some things we may never be made privy to but that we can accept at face value. Scripture is one of those things that God may or may not explain his means but we understand his why.
Is there anyone who is not better off for having read the bible? Sure, I've heard the insults and rhetoric. Even recently I am working for an electrician who is a Freemason and he claims that the entire New Testament is false and made up.
I asked him a few questions and made comments that only a bible student could recognize and he came back with nada. He never even read it.
A good bible student can make short work of those who would slander our Creator.
As I said, we may not understand the how and such, but we have the results in the form of a book. That is awesome.
BagdadBill
Well-known member
I started reading the bible at 10 when I was given my own King James. Never have I ever read nor felt that God and Jesus were the same. This is one of those dividing lines where people have to decide about what their true purpose is in reading God's word. Do they want the truth or a pat on the back?
W
wotshinit
Guest
Might the decision about the 66 books have been brought about in a manner similar to what is recorded in John 11:51?
MickHewitt
Well-known member
The witnesses have so much truth and I gorged myself on it, yet first congregation I joined I observed them avoiding the noun 'Christmas'. They would skirt all around saying it....One sister run out of a store when fellow bro's walked in why? She had over a dozen Christmas puddings in her trolley.....!!!! Imagine now a young me listening and thinking oh! better adjust my language to suit theirs! Twisting our developmental intellect after introducing the Christ and His Father to us! And everyone here can add other lunacies and supersticions to the list. But after they gave me Jah's name and true relationship.....the conversations and relations with God and His Son could start.
The God Pill
Well-known member
Proverbs 25:2, “It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings is to search out a matter.”
There's a Jewish tradition that most of the scriptures up to that point in time were destroyed via the destruction of Jerusalem by the babylonians etc and that Ezra and his scribes after the return from exile under the influence of the holy spirit were able to remake all that was lost. An account is present in 2 Esdras. The writings of 2nd century Christians like Irenaus show they believed that occurred. One detail in that account is that 24 scrolls were for common circulation and 70 for the wise. 1 enoch essentially opens saying it was written for the last generation of this system of things. Of course many texts have been recovered from the dead sea scrolls in the mid twentieth centuriy others in Ethiopia, India, the middle east and eastern Europe etc in all honesty I don't think there'll be a perfect canon till at least the time of the two witnesses if not the new system. What we have with the 66 is probably not everything inspired but everything more or less essential perhaps more than that given my scepticism of Esther. God reveals everything on his own timetable as always and preserved texts being scattered about allows him to observe people search out matters.
Last edited:
W
wotshinit
Guest
I agree, truth is not, and cannot be, limited to the 66 books of Scripture, because truth is at the bottom of all inspiration; hence the giving of the spirit of truth by the God of truth to those accepting the love of it. 2 Th 2:10
I concur in your skepticism of Esther, because 2000 years of Jewish interaction with Christian civilization have shown the boot to be on the other foot.
LifeLearning
Well-known member
If we do not have what we need in the 66 books then Jehovah is a fairly powerless God. Gods word is preserved for us, by his great power. For me to believe otherwise, I may as well worship rocks. (i.e. never may that happen.)
The God Pill
Well-known member
Sounds exactly like KJV onlyist I've spoken with that say if KJV is not superior to every manuscript and translation on the planet than God is powerless.
LifeLearning
Well-known member
I would not say superior, maybe close to equal. I'm sure there are some errors in the king james, the nwt, and every other translation, however my perception is that our discernment will not be effected, assuming we really take it to heart in it's entirety. For me it is a lot harder to read the king james.
My grandmother gave me a then very old king james bible in around 1984 that I read for years before meeting someone who insisted that Jehovah's Witnesses were the truth. When I found out that the watchtower had their own bible I was skeptical, and spent weeks learning about where the original texts came from and how to find concordances and compare language. It shook me up back then because I had no idea how all those words got into that book (my KJV) that I trusted without knowing really anything about it.
I write all of this to clarify that I do not suggest people trust any bible because God is powerful. Rather that God is powerful, and that if you seek you will find.
For I want you to realize how great a struggle I am having in your behalf and in behalf of those at Laodiceʹa and in behalf of all those who have not personally seen me. This is so that their hearts may be comforted and that they may be harmoniously joined together in love and may have all the riches that result from the full assurance of their understanding, in order to gain an accurate knowledge of the sacred secret of God, namely, Christ. Carefully concealed in him are all the treasures of wisdom and of knowledge. I am saying this so that no one may delude you with persuasive arguments. Though I am absent in body, I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good order and the firmness of your faith in Christ. Col2:1-5
Last edited: