Never leave spiritual paradise

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
No commentary on the Daily text today. Instead, I posted an article on e-watchman, reproduced below.

Seven women will grab hold of one man in that day


seven women.jpgThe April 2024 Watchtower Magazine carries an article entitled: “Never Leave Spiritual Paradise.” It is a topic I have discussed before. There is a chapter in the book Jehovah Himself Has Become King entitled: Spiritual Paradise, as well as related articles on e-watchman. So, rather than covering the same ground again, as does the Watchtower, let us more closely examine and reason upon the Scriptures offered as proof texts (including the context) supporting the Watchtower’s teaching that Jehovah’s Witnesses are residing in spiritual paradise. We must make sure of all things and test the inspired expressions to see if they originate with God.

First, although the phrase “spiritual paradise” is not found in the Bible the concept is. What is it, according to the Book of Truth? It is a condition marked by the complete absence of wicked persons. Does that describe the condition of Jehovah’s Witnesses? You decide.

The second paragraph cites Isaiah 4:6 and 58:11 and implies that the prophecies are fulfilled in the Watchtower organization, as it is presumed to be both a safe “refuge” and a “well-watered garden.” Let us first consider the 4th chapter of Isaiah in its entirety. It is one of the shortest chapters in the Bible, and one of the most profound. The opening verse states: “And seven women will grab hold of one man in that day, saying: “We will eat our own bread and wear our own clothing; only let us be called by your name to take away our disgrace.”

Taken as a stand-alone verse the passage is inscrutable. Considered in context and overlain on everything revealed in Scripture, the “seven women” represent the anointed remnant who are engaged to marry Jesus. Seven is symbolic of heavenly perfection, even as the Watchtower has taught. The man to whom the seven women grab hold is none other than Jesus when he returns. But why are the seven women in a state of disgrace, isn’t the marriage of the Lamb the most joyous and glorious wedding ever? Yes…but…

In Bible times bearing children was regarded as the primary purpose for women. It was considered to be a reproach to be childless, even a punishment from God, as was the case with David’s wife, Michal. Christ’s return will result in the implosion of the Watchtower’s “spiritual paradise.” Everyone associated with it will be humiliated.

As Paul revealed, the dead in union with Christ will be resurrected first when the Lord descends with the commanding voice of an archangel. What about those in union with Christ who are still on earth? They will have to walk through the fire. It will seem as though they have been left behind—as if their betrothal to Christ has been nullified. Their reproach will be as if they were childless. The seven women will have to plead with Jesus to just let them take his name to take away their disgrace. Heaven will not come easy for them. They will eat their own bread, not wishing to impose any further upon their master.

“In that day what Jehovah makes sprout will be splendid and glorious, and the fruitage of the land will be the pride and beauty of the survivors of Israel. Whoever remains in Zion and is left over in Jerusalem will be called holy, all of those in Jerusalem written down for life.”

When the Chaldeans destroyed Jerusalem almost all of the survivors were dragged off in chains to far-away Babylon. The few who were left behind were certainly not holy nor did they endear themselves to God. Jeremiah was one who was left behind and he issued Jehovah’s orders to the ones left behind not to seek refuge in Egypt. Keeping with Jehovah’s characterization of the Jews as being a stiff-necked people those who remained in Jerusalem refused to obey and fled down to Egypt. As a result, Jehovah sent his executioner after them. Again, the prophecy of Isaiah could not have been fulfilled then.

Jehovah’s Witnesses know, or at least they used to know, that much of Bible prophecy is written using analogies and symbols. For example, the book of Revelation foretells the deaths of the symbolic two witnesses, saying: “And their corpses will be on the main street of the great city that is in a spiritual sense called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was also executed on the stake.” (11:8)

Jesus was executed outside the city walls of Jerusalem, not in Sodom or Egypt. Sodom and Gomorrah did not even exist in Jesus’ day. That is just an example of how cities and places are used cryptically. Needless to say, the city of Jerusalem, the most important city in ancient times due to the fact that Jehovah resided there in a representative way, is used in a spiritual sense too. Did not Paul speak of the Jerusalem above?

Zion and Jerusalem are used interchangeably since Zion was the highest peak within the hilled city of Jerusalem. As already established, the Jews who were left over in Jerusalem were in no way considered to be holy. The holy ones are those who are anointed and chosen by God to be in union with Christ Jesus. They are made holy by their faith. What then does Jerusalem represent? It symbolizes Christ’s congregation. Christianity originated in an upper room in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, 33 C.E.

The destruction of Jerusalem prefigures the the fiery purge of Christ’s congregation, which up until the return of the Lord is not as it should be. For one thing, there are wicked men within, lurking like rocks below the waterline while they feast together with those who imagine they are in spiritual paradise.

In the third chapter of Malachi Christ is called the messenger of the covenant—obviously, the new covenant. Concerning his coming, the second verse poses the question: “But who will endure the day of his coming, and who will be able to stand when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen.”

Did not Jesus urge his followers to be sober-minded in expectation of his coming so that they may succeed in standing before the Son of man? The unspoken truth is that many will not be able to stand when he appears and they will not survive the fiery refining process. But those who do will be called holy and they will be written down for life in the heavenly Kingdom and resurrected in the twinkling of an eye when they die. Their reproach will be taken away when they join Christ in the air.

Now consider the concluding span which is the immediate context of the verse the Watchtower article cites: “When Jehovah washes away the filth of the daughters of Zion and rinses away the bloodshed of Jerusalem from her midst by the spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning, Jehovah will also create over the whole site of Mount Zion and over the place of her conventions a cloud and smoke by day and a bright flaming fire by night; for over all the glory there will be a shelter. And there will be a booth for shade by day from the heat, and for refuge and protection from storms and the rain.”

When Jehovah brought the Israelites and mixed company out of Egypt the angels led them by a miraculous cloud during the day and a pillar of fire at night. No doubt the nation of the exodus felt secure under the manifestation of Jehovah’s presence. In the same way, after the purge, Jesus will manifest himself among the chosen. That is what the parousia is. Christ will create holy people by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of burning down. After rinsing away the filth and bloodshed, the holy ones of the Supreme One will emerge.

Has Christ rinsed away the filth and bloodshed of the Watchtower and those associated with it? Hardly.

End of part one.

 
C

Compliment

Guest
No commentary on the Daily text today. Instead, I posted an article on e-watchman, reproduced below.

Seven women will grab hold of one man in that day


View attachment 5441The April 2024 Watchtower Magazine carries an article entitled: “Never Leave Spiritual Paradise.” It is a topic I have discussed before. There is a chapter in the book Jehovah Himself Has Become King entitled: Spiritual Paradise, as well as related articles on e-watchman. So, rather than covering the same ground again, as does the Watchtower, let us more closely examine and reason upon the Scriptures offered as proof texts (including the context) supporting the Watchtower’s teaching that Jehovah’s Witnesses are residing in spiritual paradise. We must make sure of all things and test the inspired expressions to see if they originate with God.

First, although the phrase “spiritual paradise” is not found in the Bible the concept is. What is it, according to the Book of Truth? It is a condition marked by the complete absence of wicked persons. Does that describe the condition of Jehovah’s Witnesses? You decide.

The second paragraph cites Isaiah 4:6 and 58:11 and implies that the prophecies are fulfilled in the Watchtower organization, as it is presumed to be both a safe “refuge” and a “well-watered garden.” Let us first consider the 4th chapter of Isaiah in its entirety. It is one of the shortest chapters in the Bible, and one of the most profound. The opening verse states: “And seven women will grab hold of one man in that day, saying: “We will eat our own bread and wear our own clothing; only let us be called by your name to take away our disgrace.”

Taken as a stand-alone verse the passage is inscrutable. Considered in context and overlain on everything revealed in Scripture, the “seven women” represent the anointed remnant who are engaged to marry Jesus. Seven is symbolic of heavenly perfection, even as the Watchtower has taught. The man to whom the seven women grab hold is none other than Jesus when he returns. But why are the seven women in a state of disgrace, isn’t the marriage of the Lamb the most joyous and glorious wedding ever? Yes…but…

In Bible times bearing children was regarded as the primary purpose for women. It was considered to be a reproach to be childless, even a punishment from God, as was the case with David’s wife, Michal. Christ’s return will result in the implosion of the Watchtower’s “spiritual paradise.” Everyone associated with it will be humiliated.

As Paul revealed, the dead in union with Christ will be resurrected first when the Lord descends with the commanding voice of an archangel. What about those in union with Christ who are still on earth? They will have to walk through the fire. It will seem as though they have been left behind—as if their betrothal to Christ has been nullified. Their reproach will be as if they were childless. The seven women will have to plead with Jesus to just let them take his name to take away their disgrace. Heaven will not come easy for them. They will eat their own bread, not wishing to impose any further upon their master.

“In that day what Jehovah makes sprout will be splendid and glorious, and the fruitage of the land will be the pride and beauty of the survivors of Israel. Whoever remains in Zion and is left over in Jerusalem will be called holy, all of those in Jerusalem written down for life.”

When the Chaldeans destroyed Jerusalem almost all of the survivors were dragged off in chains to far-away Babylon. The few who were left behind were certainly not holy nor did they endear themselves to God. Jeremiah was one who was left behind and he issued Jehovah’s orders to the ones left behind not to seek refuge in Egypt. Keeping with Jehovah’s characterization of the Jews as being a stiff-necked people those who remained in Jerusalem refused to obey and fled down to Egypt. As a result, Jehovah sent his executioner after them. Again, the prophecy of Isaiah could not have been fulfilled then.

Jehovah’s Witnesses know, or at least they used to know, that much of Bible prophecy is written using analogies and symbols. For example, the book of Revelation foretells the deaths of the symbolic two witnesses, saying: “And their corpses will be on the main street of the great city that is in a spiritual sense called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was also executed on the stake.” (11:8)

Jesus was executed outside the city walls of Jerusalem, not in Sodom or Egypt. Sodom and Gomorrah did not even exist in Jesus’ day. That is just an example of how cities and places are used cryptically. Needless to say, the city of Jerusalem, the most important city in ancient times due to the fact that Jehovah resided there in a representative way, is used in a spiritual sense too. Did not Paul speak of the Jerusalem above?

Zion and Jerusalem are used interchangeably since Zion was the highest peak within the hilled city of Jerusalem. As already established, the Jews who were left over in Jerusalem were in no way considered to be holy. The holy ones are those who are anointed and chosen by God to be in union with Christ Jesus. They are made holy by their faith. What then does Jerusalem represent? It symbolizes Christ’s congregation. Christianity originated in an upper room in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost, 33 C.E.

The destruction of Jerusalem prefigures the the fiery purge of Christ’s congregation, which up until the return of the Lord is not as it should be. For one thing, there are wicked men within, lurking like rocks below the waterline while they feast together with those who imagine they are in spiritual paradise.

In the third chapter of Malachi Christ is called the messenger of the covenant—obviously, the new covenant. Concerning his coming, the second verse poses the question: “But who will endure the day of his coming, and who will be able to stand when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen.”

Did not Jesus urge his followers to be sober-minded in expectation of his coming so that they may succeed in standing before the Son of man? The unspoken truth is that many will not be able to stand when he appears and they will not survive the fiery refining process. But those who do will be called holy and they will be written down for life in the heavenly Kingdom and resurrected in the twinkling of an eye when they die. Their reproach will be taken away when they join Christ in the air.

Now consider the concluding span which is the immediate context of the verse the Watchtower article cites: “When Jehovah washes away the filth of the daughters of Zion and rinses away the bloodshed of Jerusalem from her midst by the spirit of judgment and by a spirit of burning, Jehovah will also create over the whole site of Mount Zion and over the place of her conventions a cloud and smoke by day and a bright flaming fire by night; for over all the glory there will be a shelter. And there will be a booth for shade by day from the heat, and for refuge and protection from storms and the rain.”

When Jehovah brought the Israelites and mixed company out of Egypt the angels led them by a miraculous cloud during the day and a pillar of fire at night. No doubt the nation of the exodus felt secure under the manifestation of Jehovah’s presence. In the same way, after the purge, Jesus will manifest himself among the chosen. That is what the parousia is. Christ will create holy people by the spirit of judgment and the spirit of burning down. After rinsing away the filth and bloodshed, the holy ones of the Supreme One will emerge.

Has Christ rinsed away the filth and bloodshed of the Watchtower and those associated with it? Hardly.

End of part one.

Perfect! Very good detailed intepretation! I wanted to return to compliment you! Very nice! Thank God you aren't looking to be the robed Jew oh thank God phew!

That makes more sense cause there is seven congregations in Revelation and the woman represented the bride of Jesus however they all fell short in something including the congregation of Philadelphia where one side rejects Paul (calls him lawless one) and one side accepts Paul (says the other side still drinking milk) they live by mosiac law but both sides of Philadelphia accept Jesus unlike the synagogue of satan-Jews who reject Jesus.

I hope this feels sincere when you read it..if not well I understand. May Jehovah guide you all on your journies🙏
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Perfect! Very good detailed intepretation! I wanted to return to compliment you! Very nice! Thank God you aren't looking to be the robed Jew oh thank God phew!

That makes more sense cause there is seven congregations in Revelation and the woman represented the bride of Jesus however they all fell short in something including the congregation of Philadelphia where one side rejects Paul (calls him lawless one) and one side accepts Paul (says the other side still drinking milk) they live by mosiac law but both sides of Philadelphia accept Jesus unlike the synagogue of satan-Jews who reject Jesus.

I hope this feels sincere when you read it..if not well I understand. May Jehovah guide you all on your journies🙏
A simple way to understand these prophecies is to study everything the WT has published, then detach it all from 1914 and shift everything to the immediate future. Next, delete Christendom as the object of God's judgment and insert the Watchtower. Press ENTER. And there you have it. New light, for sure
 
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Paul H

Well-known member

“And seven women will grab hold of one man in that day, saying: “We will eat our own bread and wear our own clothing; only let us be called by your name to take away our disgrace.”
Zeven vrouwen houden het gewaad vast van een man Seven women will grab hold of one man in tha...jpeg


“But who will endure the day of his coming, and who will be able to stand when he appears? For he will be like the fire of a refiner and like the lye of laundrymen.”
who will endure the day of his coming, and who will be able to stand when he appears Maar wie...jpeg
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I never understood Isaiah 4:1 about the 7 women until today when reading this article. Now I see how perfect it is and really, the hope from reading the entire 4th chapter of Isaiah really brings tears to my eyes. Wonderful article and its gone from complete puzzlement to a real joy to understand it and of course it must be future. I actually was quite aware of the fact from early on in my indoctrination that the congregations were far from a spiritual paradise, but that was the goal and that was the hope. Now it is a promise from the one who can bring it about.
 
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MickHewitt

Well-known member
I never understood Isaiah 4:1 about the 7 women until today when reading this article. Now I see how perfect it is and really the hope from reading the entire 4th chapter of Isaiah really brings tears to my eyes. Wonderful article and its gone from complete puzzlement to a real joy to understand it and of course it must be future. I actually was quite aware of the fact from early on in my indoctrination that the congregations were far from a spiritual paradise, but that was the goal and that was the hope. Now it is a promise from the one who can bring it about.
You know Isa4:1 was an incredible bit of gifted understanding from our Watchman. Along with the understanding that the stars falling from heaven in Rev12 was not demons but falling annointed! Rev1:16
 
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You know Isa4:1 was an incredible bit of gifted understanding from our Watchman. Along with the understanding that the stars falling from heaven in Rev12 was not demons but falling annointed! Rev1:16
I was thinking the same thing

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

My interpretation in 2023 when congregation done no more hours in ministry and switched to baptizing instead:
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days, holy spirit will be withheld, and the congregation will be in the dark, and those with insight will fall from heaven hence it is wintertime.

Instead of "insight" replace that word with anointed and bam makes more sense.
 

a watcher

Well-known member
I was thinking the same thing

Matthew 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.

My interpretation in 2023 when congregation done no more hours in ministry and switched to baptizing instead:
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days, holy spirit will be withheld, and the congregation will be in the dark, and those with insight will fall from heaven hence it is wintertime.

Instead of "insight" replace that word with anointed and bam makes more sense.
In what way will the stars (anointed?) fall from heaven?
 
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Guest
In what way will the stars (anointed?) fall from heaven?
Well (I personally believe) the Governing Body was anointed until they stopped keeping on the watch (becoming drunkards), took and pushed a vaccine that goes against the conscience of their brothers and sisters who look up to them (sinned against Christ by wounding their weak conscience), did not show mercy or love like the Pharisees when they censored and disfellowshipped those who vocalized against the vaccine, and were prideful and made themselves an "island" where hardly no one could warn them..they didn't care to look at others intepretations of the bible (leaning upon their own understanding).

A little something I learned about 2 hours ago was that the most important thing is love and mercy according to this video from the Hebrews/Philadelphia (that accept Paul, practice mosiac law, and accepted Jesus) I think most of us could apply this in us so that we don't fall into being like the Pharisees:


I know I fell short in this recently as well.
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
In what way will the stars (anointed?) fall from heaven?
"He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time."

"When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them."

“Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name."
 

a watcher

Well-known member
"He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time."

"When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them."

“Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name."
So, the 'stars' represent the inspired 'two witnesses' that 'fall' into death?
 
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So, the 'stars' represent the inspired 'two witnesses' that 'fall' into death?
Spirit of life entered into them...not sure if it is a parallel with "and they came to life to rule with Christ"

The 2 Witnesses didn't sin like the Governing Body so Idk why they would fall unless they are fooled when the Elders come to inquire of the prophet-Ezekiel 14:9-11
 
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Stars represent persons who spiritually reside in heaven even while in the flesh on earth. Read Ephesian 2:6
Revelation 4:1-2 After this I saw, and look! an opened door in heaven, and the first voice that I heard speaking with me was like a trumpet, saying: “Come up here, and I will show you the things that must take place.” 2 After this I immediately came to be in the power of the spirit, and look! a throne was in its position in heaven, and someone was seated on the throne.

Revelation 11:11-12 After the three and a half days, spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who saw them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven say to them: “Come up here.” And they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them.

^^also like John, the 2 Witnesses would be annointed with a form of Holy Spirit which shows what happens next..reminds me of the mosiac law being a shadow of the good things to come. Trumpets sounded warning and usually was a sign of danger or warning being a shadow of the things to come if babylon the great/watchtower doesn't change it course and repent-the bowls would be a more amplified version but goes to max while everything is happening at once with greater and greater intensity to completeness and is the start of armageddon hence why its the bowls of Gods anger, these bowls are to give them a literal sign like they want, they keep asking for a sign (a wicked and adulterous generation keeps seeking a sign) they ignored the sign of Jonah so now they must be humilated for their unfaithfulness and that happens when they are killed by sword, famine, disease, and wild beasts of the earth as the old testament and the 4 horsemen in Revelation shows us.

(All this is me and my parents intepretation, only way we can be sure is when it happens)

[Lord Jesus manifesting himself (literally seen to kill all remaining who is bloodguilty and still wouldn't repent along with the wicked) would be when it is self evident to all religions especially the Governing Body that they was indeed wrong and the realization that everyone that was telling them not to take the vaccine was correct and that makimg themselves an island is not something they should have done as they ignored Brother King on 1914, they should have corrected the basics first]
 
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PJ54

Well-known member
Did not Jesus urge his followers to be sober-minded in expectation of his coming so that they may succeed in standing before the Son of man? The unspoken truth is that many will not be able to stand when he appears and they will not survive the fiery refining process. But those who do will be called holy and they will be written down for life in the heavenly Kingdom and resurrected in the twinkling of an eye when they die. Their reproach will be taken away when they join Christ in the air.
I was wondering where the great crowd would be in this whole situation but since this is part 1, I suppose the answers will be there. I do know many have been called but few have been chosen & not all will receive the masters approval.
 
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I was wondering where the great crowd would be in this whole situation but since this is part 1, I suppose the answers will be there. I do know many have been called but few have been chosen & not all will receive the masters approval.
Reminds me of Gideons 300 men and the rest were sent back.

Gideons 300 men who were chosen was paranoid, had love for their neighbor, cautious and overly cautious knowing they couldn't trust even their fellow man to keep them safe.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Perfect! Very good detailed intepretation! I wanted to return to compliment you! Very nice! Thank God you aren't looking to be the robed Jew oh thank God phew!

That makes more sense cause there is seven congregations in Revelation and the woman represented the bride of Jesus however they all fell short in something including the congregation of Philadelphia where one side rejects Paul (calls him lawless one) and one side accepts Paul (says the other side still drinking milk) they live by mosiac law but both sides of Philadelphia accept Jesus unlike the synagogue of satan-Jews who reject Jesus.

I hope this feels sincere when you read it..if not well I understand. May Jehovah guide you all on your journies🙏
Seeing beyond the speaker is the first step in studying the truth. “It is not my word, but the word of my father, who sent me”. One enjoys the luxury of fine piece of furniture, and praises the carpenter, rather that the salesman whom we bought it from. It’s as simple as that, but there is more. One can be thankful to the salesman for pointing the piece out, describing its beauties of workmanship, it’s elegance of line, the choice of timber and the skill of the true craftsman, even down to the real beauty - the wood itself, the grain, the colour, the scent of the timber that creates its beauty. But what have we bought? The salesman, or the cabinet? Surely, the salesman has his reward from the carpenter himself for displaying his work so eloquently and enlightening the seeker of refinement to its beauties, its value and its eternal grandure. Such a salesman will be highly prized and valued by the carpenter, for making him rich in his purpose, and whom can then say to the Forester that grew the trees and set them apart for his purpose, “Look what I have done with your timber, and how my salesmen have brought glory to your work in husbandry.” All that is required is that the end purchaser of such beauty, recognises who made the raw material. Neither the salesman, or the carpenter, but the forester.
 
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