Norwegian Jehovah's Witnesses demand subsidy despite their loss of religious status.

This is what happens when a lowly publishing company begins amassing millions of $$$, then billions of $$$, then the lawyers and financiers begin making decisions based on financial considerations. The truth gets pushed out of sight.
 
J&P said:
One thing you can say is they don't give up easily especially when it comes to finances. Demanding 35 million.
cne.news

cne.news

The Norwegian Jehovah's Witnesses demand subsidies from the state for 2021. That is remarkable because they lost their status as a religious community last year.
cne.news cne.news
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They do not have a legal leg to stand on with this argument. The watchtower was judged not to have fulfilled its role as a religion under the law of the land at that time, and thus not entitled to alms or charity from the State at the time the accusation was made. Regardless of appeal, legally, the watchtower was ineligible for grants from the time of being judged negligent in its role. The fact that a stay was granted does not negate the substance of that decision in the least. The appeal is simply to allow for further investigation into the facts. It does not make them any the less guilty of their false accounting. No reasonable person could argue otherwise. The same applies to any appeal. Watchtower should have promoted further education.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
They do not have a legal leg to stand on with this argument. The watchtower was judged not to have fulfilled its role as a religion under the law of the land at that time, and thus not entitled to alms or charity from the State at the time the accusation was made. Regardless of appeal, legally, the watchtower was ineligible for grants from the time of being judged negligent in its role. The fact that a stay was granted does not negate the substance of that decision in the least. The appeal is simply to allow for further investigation into the facts. It does not make them any the less guilty of their false accounting. No reasonable person could argue otherwise. The same applies to any appeal. Watchtower should have promoted further education.
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Sorry I’m not up to speed. What were the charges against WT?
 
Seadog said:
Sorry I’m not up to speed. What were the charges against WT?
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Not sure if that's why Barnaby is talking about but clicking on the links in the article says this:
"The Ministry of Children and Families concluded that the Jehovah's Witnesses' exclusion practice towards children under 18 and corresponding consequences for children who opt out of the religious community violates children's rights."
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I also find this interesting:
The Jehovah's Witnesses applied for their subsidies in February 2022. At the time, they were still registered as a religious community, the Jehovah's Witnesses point out in a letter to the State Administrator. They lost their status in December.
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Right as covid-based restrictions end they lose their status. Coincidence? Jehovah officially pulling his support?
 
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J&P said:
One thing you can say is they don't give up easily especially when it comes to finances. Demanding 35 million.
cne.news

cne.news

The Norwegian Jehovah's Witnesses demand subsidies from the state for 2021. That is remarkable because they lost their status as a religious community last year.
cne.news cne.news
Click to expand...
Kind of reminds me of this:

Now the Pharisees, who were lovers of money, were listening to all these things and were scoffing at Him.

Luke 16:14
 
Ms_ladyblue said:
Has anyone been keeping up with the latest on jw dot org versus Norway? Here’s an update from today. Pretty interesting but not too good for the borg. Day 2

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The speaker of this video is correct and it’s an interesting point, especially in Courts of Law. It is true that the character /mind-set of a person can be, or even is, reflected in their face, or shall we say by the acquired set of the muscular expression most common to the person’s character. If you compare the expressions of the GB and their ”helpers” when sermonizing on JW.org, with their appearances off stage, they could be two different people. This is not just acting, as in the case of Lett, but an expression of the falsity of the lie. Living the lie actually becomes an expression of the inner captive to the lie. If ever there was an actor that can accurately reflect the thinking, motives and deceit of the watchtower in gesture and expression, it is Lett, whether he is an active, conscious party to it or not. The fact is rather that he simply believes what he says and actually acts out his concept of belief. Even inventing a ‘voice’ to go with it. A great deal of learnt behaviours are reflected in the presentation of the expressions, facial set and outward appearances of a person - as any mother will show you or tell you. Watchtower were for years, saying just as much by their thinking on beards - though they did not understand why and simply made it a matter of control.
 
J&P said:
One thing you can say is they don't give up easily especially when it comes to finances. Demanding 35 million.
cne.news

cne.news

The Norwegian Jehovah's Witnesses demand subsidies from the state for 2021. That is remarkable because they lost their status as a religious community last year.
cne.news cne.news
Click to expand...
Can’t recall who it was ,maybe Russell, when he said that when money to fund the orgs operations ran out, he understood that it would then be time to close operations.
Amazing that they have become so desperate that they would have to sue the government for money.
 
kenmuldoon55 said:
Can’t recall who it was ,maybe Russell, when he said that when money to fund the orgs operations ran out, he understood that it would then be time to close operations.
Amazing that they have become so desperate that they would have to sue the government for money.
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Their quest for money seems to be impeding their good judgement and is certainly causing them a lot of negative publicity.
Wonder if it will be worth it in the end?

If the current GB shared Russell's view of money, they would have been out of business a long time ago.
 
J&P said:
Their quest for money seems to be impeding their good judgement and is certainly causing them a lot of negative publicity.
Wonder if it will be worth it in the end?

If the current GB shared Russell's view of money, they would have been out of business a long time ago.
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Negative publicity indeed.
I’d bet it’s the best kept secret from the rank and file though.
 
Soul Sage said:
Br. Lett is emotive in his talking because he grew up as a child with his parents that were practically deaf. He's been that way long before being a GB member.
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His over-pronunciation and exaggerated gestures would not be due to the deafness of his parents. The need for clarity in speaking with deaf/deafened people is through clarity in speech and in normal pronunciation, maintenance in context and in “simplified“ speech. This facilitates lip reading and which cannot be accomplished when over-pronunciation and mixed with non-contextual gestures, pauses and when inflections are used. Lett’s gestures are rarely in sync with his meanings in speech and in the rare occasions that they are, are not recognisable as sign language in context with what he is saying - though to be fair to him, his gestures when speaking of “love” in his last broadcast did in fact convey a recognisable sign for love in the American deaf sign language dictionary. What his gestures do reflect, in terms of body language, is a reflection of the facade of care and ‘brotherly love‘ that the watchtower like to demonstrate. So much so, that it is not difficult to see it as genuinely felt in his heart and he is probably the one person in that tribe of scoundrels that actually believes what he says or rather has been told to say. It is his seemingly preferred allegiance to the Org that is sad to see, because if he did but look to the truth, he probably would find it. Time will tell. If anything, Stephen is looking for acceptance and is reaching out for it. The watchtower is a refuge for him and his need to show compassion, high - and to receive it. (In my opinion of course!).
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
His over-pronunciation and exaggerated gestures would not be due to the deafness of his parents. The need for clarity in speaking with deaf/deafened people is through clarity in speech and in normal pronunciation, maintenance in context and in “simplified“ speech. This facilitates lip reading and which cannot be accomplished when over-pronunciation and mixed with non-contextual gestures, pauses and when inflections are used. Lett’s gestures are rarely in sync with his meanings in speech and in the rare occasions that they are, are not recognisable as sign language in context with what he is saying - though to be fair to him, his gestures when speaking of “love” in his last broadcast did in fact convey a recognisable sign for love in the American deaf sign language dictionary. What his gestures do reflect, in terms of body language, is a reflection of the facade of care and ‘brotherly love‘ that the watchtower like to demonstrate. So much so, that it is not difficult to see it as genuinely felt in his heart and he is probably the one person in that tribe of scoundrels that actually believes what he says or rather has been told to say. It is his seemingly preferred allegiance to the Org that is sad to see, because if he did but look to the truth, he probably would find it. Time will tell. If anything, Stephen is looking for acceptance and is reaching out for it. The watchtower is a refuge for him and his need to show compassion, high - and to receive it. (In my opinion of course!).
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Soul Sage said:
Br. Lett is emotive in his talking because he grew up as a child with his parents that were practically deaf. He's been that way long before being a GB member.
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Uh i dont think so. Ive seen countless interviews with family members including his niece who claim he does not act like that in person, only giving talks, etc.
 
Soul Sage said:
Br. Lett is emotive in his talking because he grew up as a child with his parents that were practically deaf. He's been that way long before being a GB member.
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Fair point but that doesn't explain why he talks down to grown adults as if they were children. They all do. It's all part of the infantilization of the public. "We know best. Follow us so you don't hurt yourselves or get upset."
 
Neoluna said:
Uh i dont think so. Ive seen countless interviews with family members including his niece who claim he does not act like that in person, only giving talks, etc.
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I would absolutely agree that it is all a show. We all have a public and private persona. We have to ask ourselves why that should be? What is the motive? Why go to such extremes of expression? The majority rely on prepared reasoning to make a point. Lett struggles with believing in what he is saying. He is playing a part of what is expected from him. A learnt response or behaviour to an emotive reasoning. The main area of influence is the context in which he lives and his assumed power-base. The clues are in the content of his talks and the regularity in which they occur. They revolve around subject matter he us both familiar and comfortable with - emotive subjects, needs, the organisation and its provisions and “donations”. Compare his performance with that of Splane and his toe-curling embarrassment over selling the “extended generations” to the flock. If he was in a Court of Law, he would have been eaten alive by the prosecution and the jury would have been rolling around on the floor in laughter. The same was true all through the Australian Commission, the red faces, the shifty glances, evasion, and most of all, resorting to the bible as an authority that they had no explanation for in terms of translating into human understanding. It is all just as the bible points out so emphatically, in that it is what is contained in the heart - except that with watchtower, it is all an open book.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
I would absolutely agree that it is all a show. We all have a public and private persona. We have to ask ourselves why that should be? What is the motive? Why go to such extremes of expression? The majority rely on prepared reasoning to make a point. Lett struggles with believing in what he is saying. He is playing a part of what is expected from him. A learnt response or behaviour to an emotive reasoning. The main area of influence is the context in which he lives and his assumed power-base. The clues are in the content of his talks and the regularity in which they occur. They revolve around subject matter he us both familiar and comfortable with - emotive subjects, needs, the organisation and its provisions and “donations”. Compare his performance with that of Splane and his toe-curling embarrassment over selling the “extended generations” to the flock. If he was in a Court of Law, he would have been eaten alive by the prosecution and the jury would have been rolling around on the floor in laughter. The same was true all through the Australian Commission, the red faces, the shifty glances, evasion, and most of all, resorting to the bible as an authority that they had no explanation for in terms of translating into human understanding. It is all just as the bible points out so emphatically, in that it is what is contained in the heart - except that with watchtower, it is all an open book.
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BTD. Thankyou for enunciating thoughts I haven’t been able to express but nonetheless are in complete agreement with. We are very appreciative of your wordsmithing. “Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together especially————“
 
kirmmy said:
Fair point but that doesn't explain why he talks down to grown adults as if they were children. They all do. It's all part of the infantilization of the public. "We know best. Follow us so you don't hurt yourselves or get upset."
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Such gestures are a form of self support to an insecure knowledge base, or area of emotive loss and expression. If his childhood was beleaguered with communication problems and speech development then an extremis of gesture in communication would be a natural outcome. It would therefore be natural to conclude that his over-emphasised gesturing would be to emphasise the degree of meaning/need of his words used. For instance, if you were trying to convey intense embarrassment to a person who cannot distinguish words easily due to deafness, you could illustrate it simply by expressing the word “No!” And covering your face with your hands. Meaning is conveyed by context. In fact, context in gesture is often more expressive than words - as is eye contact. Though it appears that Lett talks down to the flock, it is more likely that he is defending himself in his position - trying to add genuine concern to a position of fakery. I suppose that is judgemental of me to say so, but such traits do seem to be self evident in all of them - just look at all the ‘authority’ evident in Winders talk about Jehovah’s apparent laxity in explaining things properly to the governing body and thus there (apparently) not being any need for them to apologise for Jehovah’s omissions.
 
JW sues Norway: Verdict
www.vg.no

Staten frikjennes etter å ha blitt saksøkt av Jehovas vitner

Jehovas vitner får ikke tilbake statstilskuddet. Vedtakene om å nekte trossamfunnet støtte er kjent gyldig, og staten frikjennes i en fersk dom i Oslo tingrett.
www.vg.no www.vg.no


Jehovah's Witnesses lost to the state - will not get state support back
Jehovah's Witnesses do not get back the state subsidy. The decisions to deny the religious community support are known to be valid, and the state is acquitted in a recent judgment in the Oslo District Court.

NTB
1 hour ago

According to the judgment, the exclusion practice of Jehovah's Witnesses involves "serious violations of the rights and freedoms of others", writes Dagen on Monday afternoon.

The trial went before Oslo district court in January, and now the district court has concluded that the state is acquitted. Jehovah's Witnesses are also ordered to pay court costs of just over NOK 1.1 million.

Jehovah's Witnesses filed a lawsuit against the state of Norway after being deprived of the right to state subsidies and registration as a religious community, writes Vårt Land.

Last year it became known that the religious community will lose both the state subsidy for 2021 and the registration as a religious community. Jehovah's Witnesses disagree with the decision and have filed a lawsuit against the state.

The decision has also been upheld for the rejections of state aid in 2022 and 2023.

The demand for subsequent payment of a total grant of NOK 35 million was also rejected by the court.

The reason for the revocation of the state grant is that the Ministry of Children and Families and the State Administrator believe that the exclusion practice of Jehovah's Witnesses involves negative social control and prevents free expression from the religious community.

"Through the guidelines and practice of exclusion, Jehovah's Witnesses encourage members who are ostracized or withdraw, so that with few exceptions they are exposed to social isolation from those remaining in the religious community," concludes judge Ole Kristen Øverberg.
 
J&P said:
JW sues Norway: Verdict
www.vg.no

Staten frikjennes etter å ha blitt saksøkt av Jehovas vitner

Jehovas vitner får ikke tilbake statstilskuddet. Vedtakene om å nekte trossamfunnet støtte er kjent gyldig, og staten frikjennes i en fersk dom i Oslo tingrett.
www.vg.no www.vg.no


Jehovah's Witnesses lost to the state - will not get state support back
Jehovah's Witnesses do not get back the state subsidy. The decisions to deny the religious community support are known to be valid, and the state is acquitted in a recent judgment in the Oslo District Court.

NTB
1 hour ago

According to the judgment, the exclusion practice of Jehovah's Witnesses involves "serious violations of the rights and freedoms of others", writes Dagen on Monday afternoon.

The trial went before Oslo district court in January, and now the district court has concluded that the state is acquitted. Jehovah's Witnesses are also ordered to pay court costs of just over NOK 1.1 million.

Jehovah's Witnesses filed a lawsuit against the state of Norway after being deprived of the right to state subsidies and registration as a religious community, writes Vårt Land.

Last year it became known that the religious community will lose both the state subsidy for 2021 and the registration as a religious community. Jehovah's Witnesses disagree with the decision and have filed a lawsuit against the state.

The decision has also been upheld for the rejections of state aid in 2022 and 2023.

The demand for subsequent payment of a total grant of NOK 35 million was also rejected by the court.

The reason for the revocation of the state grant is that the Ministry of Children and Families and the State Administrator believe that the exclusion practice of Jehovah's Witnesses involves negative social control and prevents free expression from the religious community.

"Through the guidelines and practice of exclusion, Jehovah's Witnesses encourage members who are ostracized or withdraw, so that with few exceptions they are exposed to social isolation from those remaining in the religious community," concludes judge Ole Kristen Øverberg.
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GREAT. The court costs are far too low though. They should have had to make reparations.
 
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